Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[Adam the Waster]

Just now, Roland said:

Your picture was self-explanatory Adam....

Thank you!

[rubens9311]

3 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Exactly my point.

My point too. 
I don't understand how players can spend points on Stealth? 
The worst thing is that if you want to make a tier 5 with "stealth" you will be literally 24 hours real.

Let's not even mention that on horde night it is useless and guess what, the game is about surviving the hordes haha

 
Here's a bit of hate: I always thought people use stealth because they are new to the game JA

[Vundecat]

5 hours ago, madmole said:

That was supposed to happen with the design but fell through the cracks.

Is there a chance it might be implemented in the future? 

[BobbyLee298]

Dam tree, trying to take my loot

[bloodmoth13]

5 hours ago, faatal said:

People underestimate zombie hearing. They detect you more by hearing than seeing. We do not have audio occlusion, so walls do not block sounds.

 

With zero light and maximum stealth perks, they will always see/hear at some minimum distance like 1m.

Sooo out of curiousity how is the knife supposed to work? i gave up on trying to make use of it because everything wakes up before you get to it due to the small range and trip hazards. The stealth bonus really seems like a booby trap to me, i have been able to make use of it a few times but i get the impression id be better off with a longer range weapon and using their heavier power attack.

You could say that you need perks to really use it but i feel like that defeats the entire niche the knife is supposed to inhabit, you may as well make the bonus damage the perk at that point.

It might be too much to ask but could knives get an extended period for their bonus damage? like for 1s after an enemy wakes up, knives deal full stealth damage? Maybe make that a perk and increase that bonus to up to 5 seconds at full?

If i could push further id love the power attack on sleepers to be something like getting the zombie in a headlock and slitting their throat for an instakill, maybe as the final perk point? animation might be too much to ask for though (and grappling effects)

[MechanicalLens]

10 minutes ago, BobbyLee298 said:

Dam tree, trying to take my loot

<snipped>

 

1. This post contains "m-word" content, so it's probably best not to post that here.

2. Did you chop down the tree to gain access to that air drop? When I tried that at the beginning of A19 EXP, doing so just destroys the airdrop so you have to nerdpole up to it.

[pregnable]

1 hour ago, bloodmoth13 said:

Sooo out of curiousity how is the knife supposed to work? i gave up on trying to make use of it because everything wakes up before you get to it due to the small range and trip hazards. The stealth bonus really seems like a booby trap to me, i have been able to make use of it a few times but i get the impression id be better off with a longer range weapon and using their heavier power attack.

 

Yeah, from playing both types of builds it seems like it would be way easier to get a sneak attack melee kill with a sledge and zero sneak skill than it would with a knife and from the shadows maxed out. 

 

Pretty sure I have gotten a number of sneak attack melee kills on my str/intel build, with my flaming steel axe and my headlight on, lel. 

[BobbyLee298]

2 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

1. This post contains "m-word" content, so it's probably best not to post that here.

2. Did you chop down the tree to gain access to that air drop? When I tried that at the beginning of A19 EXP, doing so just destroys the airdrop so you have to nerdpole up to it.

Aaaaaa yes the good old m-word lol. 

 

Ya i just cut the tree down and the crate fell to the ground with no problems

[meganoth]

10 hours ago, Danidas said:

Its mainly say if your maining Fortitude and you have the choice between wearing Tough Guy Glasses for +1 to Fortitude or the Nerdy Glasses for +1 Intellect and +10% xp. Which one will benefit you more to wear long term? Lets say your low level and just competed a quest and the reward are either the Tough Guy Glasses or the Nerdy Glasses, which do you take?

So I looked at the xml and if I made no mistake the 10% XP bonus amounts to less than 1 level until you are level 16. Then slowly growing to about an 1.8 level lead at level 60.

 

Basically using the right glasses for the attribute can save you more than using the nerd glasses all the way up to level 60, but they are not a bad substitute.

 

[BobbyLee298]

@madmole could we see the military truck as a drivable vehicle in a future Alpha, would be neet to see since the model is already in the game?

 

You could make it like the auger where you have to find the schematics to build it, with their being no perk to unlock it. 

Would be a nice end game thing that can hold 6 people 

[Phoenixshade35]

3 hours ago, bloodmoth13 said:

Sooo out of curiousity how is the knife supposed to work? i gave up on trying to make use of it because everything wakes up before you get to it due to the small range and trip hazards. The stealth bonus really seems like a booby trap to me, i have been able to make use of it a few times but i get the impression id be better off with a longer range weapon and using their heavier power attack.

You could say that you need perks to really use it but i feel like that defeats the entire niche the knife is supposed to inhabit, you may as well make the bonus damage the perk at that point.

It might be too much to ask but could knives get an extended period for their bonus damage? like for 1s after an enemy wakes up, knives deal full stealth damage? Maybe make that a perk and increase that bonus to up to 5 seconds at full?

If i could push further id love the power attack on sleepers to be something like getting the zombie in a headlock and slitting their throat for an instakill, maybe as the final perk point? animation might be too much to ask for though (and grappling effects)

ive been doing a knife run right now but i have not had a lot of opportunities to use it for stealth, though having advanced muffled connectors, light armor to padded armor, and perks into the stealth tree along with the various books for stealth should work, ive focussed on using the bow right now for stealth kills, also when going through a poi destroy the garbage on the ground or broken glass, they always wake up to that stuff, its tricky but managable

[Gazz]

5 hours ago, rubens9311 said:

I don't understand how players can spend points on Stealth?

It's absolutely okay if you don't like stealth.

[Roland]

He sounds more like he's perplexed by it. But I think that's absolutely okay too.

[Jost Amman]

2 hours ago, Gazz said:

It's absolutely okay if you don't like stealth.

And I see you're absolutely ok with stealth being partially broken.

But I'm sure everything will be fixed in time... I just don't understand why everyone is denying or belittling problems and partially broken systems.

If anything should go into A19.1/2 should be these kind of fixes IMO.

 

I mean, it's alpha, as Madmole said you still need to wrap up some of the main systems, so there's no shame to admit that some of them can still have bugs and/or broken parts that are evident while playing. But I feel like I'm beating an undead horse so I'll stop here.

[Ezed]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

So I looked at the xml and if I made no mistake the 10% XP bonus amounts to less than 1 level until you are level 16. Then slowly growing to about an 1.8 level lead at level 60.

 

Basically using the right glasses for the attribute can save you more than using the nerd glasses all the way up to level 60, but they are not a bad substitute.

 

I guess I tend to put at least 3 points in most Attributes (sans PER), so basically it's a free point regardless whether it's in INT, or STR, or AGI.  Add onto that, the 10% XP gain (on everything you do), plus crafting speed bonus...vs just that single point with the Ski Goggles or Tough Guy Glasses.   I just don't see the point of the other eyewear (except the Lucky Goggles and Night Vision), and it's a shame.

 

[Aldranon]

With Attributes, the two "Big Boys" are Strength and Fortitude, with the others currently in supporting roles.

 

That said, I do like maxing out INT (using nerd glasses) so I can play with two sledge turrets instead of one. 

Thats a huge "waste" of points, unless you account for the endless giggles I get when a zombie is worked over by two of them!

Then Intelligence wins hands down for me!  So I guess the other attributes are fun based too. (but not as fun to me)

[NukemDed]

ffs aĺl of you. this thing is far too complex to balance (whatever that means) to suit everone.

just play the game and enjoy it.

i start each game and see what the rmg offers then pick stats to suit in tandem with what mags i find 

 every play thru is therefore different and FUN.

stfu and play

[RhinoW]

4 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

And I see you're absolutely ok with stealth being partially broken.

But I'm sure everything will be fixed in time... I just don't understand why everyone is denying or belittling problems and partially broken systems.

If anything should go into A19.1/2 should be these kind of fixes IMO.

 

I mean, it's alpha, as Madmole said you still need to wrap up some of the main systems, so there's no shame to admit that some of them can still have bugs and/or broken parts that are evident while playing. But I feel like I'm beating an undead horse so I'll stop here.

Stealth? Broken? Mate i think you are thinking of a different game. I mostly go for agility tree when I play this game and let me tell you, unless you freaking max rank the stealth perk, zombies will still be alerted out of nowhere. Even without perks sometimes you can stand in front of a sitting sleeper and he won't notice you.

 

Stealth damage is a different story, but then again, mention any game with a stealth damage mechanic that isn't "broken".

 

If anything, the most broken thing about an agility build is the deep cuts perk + fury of blows, that @%$*#! is super consistent. And perhaps run and gun.

[HungryZombie]

17 hours ago, pregnable said:

 

Nah, I was not walking over trash. 

 

The one spot is after you go up the first ladder.  I got up it and was fine, then I had to go back into sneak mode. 

 

I waited a bit after going into sneak mode and then as soon as I passed midway by the wall they wake up and come for me. 

 

Maybe they are actually right next to the wall on the other side or something and their visibility range is glitching through the wall?

 

 

I noticed while playing that in a number of POIs there seemed to be spots where I would be sneaking, not hit trash or anything, and my stealth says I am super stealthy, and certain nearby zombies just wake up. 

Was your stealth skill maxed out?

[Aldranon]

Most competent players I know do just fine using any perks or attribute points and "Dead-is-Dead" rules.

The real test, however, is always the "Mass Ambush" moments in POI's when playing SP.  I think most people know a few POI's that fit the bill.

 

There is a real difference in a tweaked out character and a "just-for-fun-let's-see-what-happens" play through one, during those moments.  (Of course, once you know the trap is there... do you let it happen again?)

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, Ezed said:

I guess I tend to put at least 3 points in most Attributes (sans PER), so basically it's a free point regardless whether it's in INT, or STR, or AGI.  Add onto that, the 10% XP gain (on everything you do), plus crafting speed bonus...vs just that single point with the Ski Goggles or Tough Guy Glasses.   I just don't see the point of the other eyewear (except the Lucky Goggles and Night Vision), and it's a shame.

 

No, if you do it right, it is 3 free perk points, not 1. Perk an attribute like Fortitude to 9, and the tough guy glasses save you 3 levels worth of perk points to get that last step to 10.

 

But it absolutely okay if you prefer the nerd glasses. Alternatives are good and the nerd glasses can be considered as one of the advantages INT gets over the other attributes.

 

 

[jdifran]

17 hours ago, faatal said:

People underestimate zombie hearing. They detect you more by hearing than seeing. We do not have audio occlusion, so walls do not block sounds.

 

With zero light and maximum stealth perks, they will always see/hear at some minimum distance like 1m.

So how is a sneak attack with a knife ever supposed to be effective if they always wake up before you can get within 1m?  Is the knife reach actually longer than 1m?

[Ezed]

40 minutes ago, meganoth said:

No, if you do it right, it is 3 free perk points, not 1. Perk an attribute like Fortitude to 9, and the tough guy glasses save you 3 levels worth of perk points to get that last step to 10.

 

But it absolutely okay if you prefer the nerd glasses. Alternatives are good and the nerd glasses can be considered as one of the advantages INT gets over the other attributes.

 

 

Hmm...true.  I rarely play a save long enough to get any to 10 but ya...  

Anyway, the point was to ask for any news, I don't think there's any forthcoming.  I'll get back to miscalculating stuff...cheers! 

[SnowDog1942]

Where dat A20 thread tho.

 

Getting hard just thinking about it.

 

 

 

[USSF06]

56 minutes ago, jdifran said:

So how is a sneak attack with a knife ever supposed to be effective if they always wake up before you can get within 1m?  Is the knife reach actually longer than 1m?

I don't understand where this argument against stealth comes from.  Myself and others on my server have had an absolute blast using knives and the stealth bonuses.  If you are waking up zombies before getting close enough to stealth kill them, then that's your problem.  Nothing feels broken, in my opinion.  If anything, the stealth perk can actually feel OP.  With every new Alpha comes a change in tactics.  I have never been a knife fighter in 7DTD until A19.  Now the bone knife is my favorite starting weapon for 2 reasons:  stealth damage and bleeding damage.