Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[pregnable]

20 minutes ago, faatal said:

People underestimate zombie hearing. They detect you more by hearing than seeing. We do not have audio occlusion, so walls do not block sounds.

 

With zero light and maximum stealth perks, they will always see/hear at some minimum distance like 1m.

 

Yeah, that could have been it in that spot, they might be detecting me through the wall if they are on that wall.

 

There are some spots that seem to wake them up that are not in that range though, It could even be that some spots are still making trash noise after you break them lol. 

 

 

If you want to check it out though, I think business_burnt_02 is a good one to check.  I think if you just go though that with like 3 or 4 points in the sneak skill you will spot all of the issues, or whatever the cause is, if there is no issue. 

 

Like in the second room, there is a door on the right with a minor loot room, and I think even if you break that trash and stuff and do not wake him up, if you walk past a certain point a ways away from the door he will wake up inside. 

 

I am just trying to help out.  I normally play a str/intel build... I love those robotic sledges lol. 

[Laz Man]

6 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Yes, there are a few insta-wakes in quite a few POIS that feel cheap. But reality is, you weren't 0% seen. So as long as there's a number >0 in the yellow bar, you will always have a chance  insta-wake some Zds no matter how big your stealth skill is or if you move too close because of the slightest noise. So go lightest armor (gotta be padded or full modded light) with full muffled mods and top agility and full stealth books and a knife and even THEN you are not a skyrim-like god. BUT I can confirm that you are pretty close, and you need no bullets and it feels AWESOME and rewarding. As long as you kill first, loot/ wrench later.

 

The stealth in this game, as it is, is better than , again, Skyrim. Not a fan of the yellow bar at first, but exact numbers will always trump an eye-like visual clue. 

 

 

Edit: Using a ladder with stealth needs a book or a little tunning, but that's alpha for you.

I think the insta wake/attack configuration is a nice way to create cool encounters (e.g. zombie break outs, loot room fights, etc.) but it has to be used sparingly so stealth gameplay isn't impacted too much.

[Adam the Waster]

59 minutes ago, madmole said:

 

That is called a pipe bomb.

well yes but no, pipe bomb's blowing up is dangerous the fermentation is whats will kill you (unless im wrong which i might... AKA i AM! )

Technically the Molotov would be the "pipe flamethrower" because the fire is what kills you. 

why am i explaining this! i don't even know what im saying! the voices are speaking to me again!

 

i need sham!   

[Blake_]

2 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

I think the insta wake/attack configuration is a nice way to create cool encounters (e.g. zombie break outs, loot room fights, etc.) but it has to be used sparingly so stealth gameplay isn't impacted too much.

Sure, it needs some tweaks, but have you ever tried and played an end game agility character ? Hell, even at halfway there you  use 1 repair kit and a machete tops to clear an entire tier V POI. I welcome some spices here and there.

[pregnable]

16 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Sure, it needs some tweaks, but have you ever tried and played an end game agility character ? Hell, even at halfway there you  use 1 repair kit and a machete tops to clear an entire tier V POI. I welcome some spices here and there.

 

Yeah, although you can do pretty much the same thing with a loud weapon and zero points in stealth atm heh. 

 

I always laugh when I sneak attack kill a radiated zombie with other zombies nearby and try to guess how many I can kill before they wake up when I am shooting a shotgun in the room. 

 

The main thing I notice playing stealthy and non-stealthy is that I can usually do the POI just as stealthy either way. 

 

So if I am only really waking up zombies at scripted spots, then it just makes me wonder why I invested in the stealth skill at all, cause I can do the same thing without it and a shotgun. 

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

I would have said "concise and with reproducible steps", but sure, if you want to send Fataal on a possibly futile bug hunt that will do as well 😆

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

Broken is a very subjective term.  What feels broken might be working as intended to someone else.  2 peoples similar anecdotal experiences also dont make things "facts."

 

Facts require proof and that is why its critical to provide reproduction of specific steps otherwise there is no sure way confirm if the root cause was addressed or not...

49 minutes ago, faatal said:

I would not call stealth broken. It has rules and they work. Now the player understanding those rules is another thing.

Guys, I'm just trying to help here and assuming players are just "too dumb" to understand what's happening is not always the best choice if you really want to find bugs and have a better game... just saying.

 

@faatal

I'll give you some examples that you can reproduce at ANY time.

 

1) While clearing a POI you can break closet doors with arrows, they'll make a loud noise but since "you're sneaking" the zombie inside won't wake up. Even if this is intended it is broken IMO and leaving it as it is will just make the game look dumb.

2) While sneaking in range of a zombie in the dark you turn on the helmet light and the "sneak meter" goes all the way up, but the zombie won't still see you.

3) In some POI's rooftop if you sneak near the area where the zombies are supposed to spawn you'll see no one, then when you enter the "volume" you'll suddenly see all the zombies appear out of thin air. That's another thing that needs fixing unless you want to completely ruin people's immersion.

4) I forgot! You can also kill Boars by sneaking in front of them (like literally in front of them) and shoot them in the face with a BB or shotty.

 

What I can't understand is how can the QA team have possibly missed ANY of these problems unless they completely skipped playing stealth characters.

Please, tell me this is already on your to-fix list!

 

Also, sorry for the OT, this is not the Bugs Report forum but since you asked...

[Danidas]

11 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Guys, I'm just trying to help here and assuming players are just "too dumb" to understand what's happening is not always the best choice if you really want to find bugs and have a better game... just saying.

 

@faatal

I'll give you some examples that you can reproduce at ANY time.

 

1) While clearing a POI you can break closet doors with arrows, they'll make a loud noise but since "you're sneaking" the zombie inside won't wake up. Even if this is intended it is broken IMO and leaving it as it is will just make the game look dumb.

2) While sneaking in range of a zombie in the dark you turn on the helmet light and the "sneak meter" goes all the way up, but the zombie won't still see you.

3) In some POI's rooftop if you sneak near the area where the zombies are supposed to spawn you'll see no one, then when you enter the "volume" you'll suddenly see all the zombies appear out of thin air. That's another thing that needs fixing unless you want to completely ruin people's immersion.

4) I forgot! You can also kill Boars by sneaking in front of them (like literally in front of them) and shoot them in the face with a BB or shotty.

 

What I can't understand is how can the QA team have possibly missed ANY of these problems unless they completely skipped playing stealth characters.

Please, tell me this is already on your to-fix list!

 

Also, sorry for the OT, this is not the Bugs Report forum but since you asked...

 

Its already been said that most of the items you list as bugs that need fixing are the results of the volume based spawn system working. Which a lot of them are in place by design to save system resources and are mostly intended to occur. Grant it more effort can be put in to hide them and a bit of polish could be applied here and there.

[Jost Amman]

2 minutes ago, Danidas said:

Its already been said that most of the items you list as bugs that need fixing are the results of the volume based spawn system working. Which a lot of them are in place by design to save system resources and are mostly intended to occur. Grant it more effort can be put in to hide them and a bit of polish could be applied here and there.

As I expected... a dismissive reply.

Also the only point which applies to POI volumes is n.3, you really don't know what you're talking about or just outright ignore my points for some obscure reason. 🙈

[AtomicUs5000]

Trigger volumes would be cool in POIs. They activate either by crossing them or damaging a block inside of them. Trigger volumes could override the senses on sleepers. Put a trigger volume over a cabinet door and then set the sleeper to wake up when a block is damaged in the trigger volume (the door).
Could be used for a lot of different things.
Trigger volumes could be used as a way toggle on/off sleeper volumes.
For instance, if you entered a POI from the roof, a trigger volume on the roof could deactivate the roof sleeper volume, but then activate an alternative sleeper volume below the roof, resulting in zombies coming up to the roof from below instead of just popping in out of nowhere. A trigger volume on the first floor of the POI could do the opposite.

[SnowDog1942]

2 hours ago, madmole said:

 

Preparation H is king. 

Fixed

[fragtzack]

 Stealth doesn't feel broken to me, 30ish hours played a19. 

 

 What is broken is the elevator hatch exploit!! Bring it back or develop a new designed working elevator in a20+ !!

 

[Danidas]

Just now, fragtzack said:

 Stealth doesn't feel broken to me, 30ish hours played a19. 

 

 What is broken is the elevator hatch exploit!! Bring it back or develop a new elevator in a20+ !!

 

I think people already did by using sideways grange doors instead of hatches.

[SnowDog1942]

Stealth blah blah blah who cares ,  its useless on horde night and its more fun to fight something thats fighting back.  
 

what about spawing in roaming zeds inside of houses when u get close.  Now that would be more fun!!

 

you know, sleepers , that.... arent....sleeping...

[madmole]

1 hour ago, Blake_ said:

Behold non english speakers absolutely understanding the comment and positively reacting to that feedback, lol.

Come on everyone knows a smiley face means its a joke.

2 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Stealth blah blah blah who cares ,  its useless on horde night and its more fun to fight something thats fighting back.  
 

what about spawing in roaming zeds inside of houses when u get close.  Now that would be more fun!!

 

you know, sleepers , that.... arent....sleeping...

When we get bandit patrols hopefully "roamers" will fall out of that tech.

[Jost Amman]

3 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Stealth blah blah blah who cares ,  its useless on horde night and its more fun to fight something thats fighting back.

Exactly my point.

[Ezed]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

So STR has the absolutely fantastic cigar that lets you double dip and you are complaining?

I'm not complaining that I can double dip.  If I'm complaining at all it's because I'd like to see some balancing and more options for both eyewear and the face slot.   Mostly I am curious at what point in development this might get looked at, or if what we have now is how it's going to be.

 

 

 

 

[SnowDog1942]

1 minute ago, Ezed said:

I'm not complaining that I can double dip.  

Me neither man, I can to and im not complaining , me neither  

[Ezed]

Just now, SnowDog1942 said:

Me neither man, me neither  

LOL.  Not with me though, just so we're clear...

[SnowDog1942]

1 minute ago, Ezed said:

LOL.  Not with me though, just so we're clear...

I respect that, but you dont know what your missing.  Its all good tho, no means no.

[Adam the Waster]

44 minutes ago, fragtzack said:

 Stealth doesn't feel broken to me, 30ish hours played a19. 

 

 What is broken is the elevator hatch exploit!! Bring it back or develop a new designed working elevator in a20+ !!

 

i can't say anything about stealth because i am like a bull in a China shop!

but for the hatch exploit! there is something i heard of that can be used....

 

Spoiler

 

[Laz Man]

1 hour ago, Blake_ said:

Sure, it needs some tweaks, but have you ever tried and played an end game agility character ? Hell, even at halfway there you  use 1 repair kit and a machete tops to clear an entire tier V POI. I welcome some spices here and there.

Im sure, the variety will come with time.  Have you checked out Store_gun_02 (sp?)  That is one of the newer POIs that use the attack volumes in a more creative way. 

[Blake_]

44 minutes ago, madmole said:

When we get bandit patrols hopefully "roamers" will fall out of that tech.

I still don't understand the plan. Are they going to be all about combat "behaviours" or are they gonna sleep, eat and chat (etc) too? Sometimes the little things like that are what makes gameplay deep.

 

Imagine a bandit boss bossing around and telling a minion to go fetch something/someone inside a nearby POI in real time. 

1 minute ago, Laz Man said:

Im sure, the variety will come with time.  Have you checked out Store_gun_02 (sp?)  That is one of the newer POIs that use the attack volumes in a more creative way. 

Yes, I know what you mean. I like that stuff.

[MechanicalLens]

1 hour ago, Danidas said:

I think people already did by using sideways grange doors instead of hatches.

Already been reported, probably already on the table being fixed.

[Adam the Waster]

Or just uses ladders!

 

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Adam the Waster said:

Or just uses ladders!

 

Your picture was self-explanatory Adam....