Lanadon Conners Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 This new "Specialization" aspect has me very interested. Nobody is a Master of All... Some like to get in close and others like to sit back and Touch someone from afar.. More options, more choices.. And I will finally be able to snipe a zombie through a pane of broken glass and actually kill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survager Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 No that would be infinite ammo. 80% of the cost to craft 100 rounds in mats. For 9mm its 80 casings, 80 GP, 80 tips to make a box of 9mm ammo which is 100 rounds. You unpack it when you need them and it converts to 100 9mm bullets. Madmole, why do we need the advantage of 20 bullets. We already have the advantage of free cells in the inventory, since we can put several boxes of bullets in one cell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odetta Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Actually no the 9mm can't do it at all, he can ignore armor at point blank range is what his perk does. Another risk reward design I came up with for the 9mm guy to be able to deal with armored enemies. Right now its only on the sniper (bought with perks)and magnum, sniper buys the perks, magnum guy collects 7 books to unlock it, good luck with that. I'm on day 13 and have 2 magnum books so far, finding the full set to complete the bonuses is not easy, and has never even been done in testing afaik, but we don't play long games usually so many things chance during balancing we restart to get an accurate assessment of the changes. I like what you did with the 9mm pistol and I think each weapon can have unique attributes inherent. Shotguns - Hits like a truck causing guaranteed knockdown via ragdoll (buckshot, lesser zombies only) same for slugs but more exaggerated ragdoll and a winded effect making them slow for 3 seconds (works for both high tier enemies and lesser foes) Rifles - Penetration Power, line them up and take them out. Assault Rifles/Smg/M60 - High Dps bullet hoses with an available mod specific to them to greatly increase their magazine size (drum magazines and larger ammo box for M60) Bullets ain't cheap so use wisely. Magnum - Very High chance to dismember on non armoured foes, causes ragdoll on armored enemies. Nailgun - Shoot their feet to nail them in place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Minion Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 a17 coming to an end looking forward to a18. I have 13000+ hours in game, have been here daily running our server , the biggest issue I had with a17 was the start of it when the bug existed only a set amout of players could log in. I still feel that really hurt server owners bad because a16 we had over 5000+ players join first month alone | a17 we where expecting the same but for the first month of a17 that bug really hurt the population. Glad it was eventually fixed but i am hoping moving into a18 this problem doesnt re invent itself. That being said our server is looking forward to a18 and i know for fact alot of our players which exceed in the thousands well make a return. I also really like all the new features and work that the devs have put into the game moving into a18... thanks for your hard work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haidrgna Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Exactly, people are wanting it on every weapon when the design intent was to make the sniper feel special instead of a mostly useless weapon. We have lots of interesting new things for each weapon with the perk books. I have noticed that if you give every weapon it's own type of ammonition rather than sharing it on multiple guns a gun will never feel useless. Since 762 rounds are shared on 3 guns in the game, essentially means everyone will take the best one that shoots that ammo. Even just changing the hunting rifle to be a .44 caliber rifle already makes it feel way less useful (and no need to add new a new caliber). Why? Well because if you play survival and you find rounds for every kind of gun but only limit yourself to use just one gun, you either need to invest a lot in making that ammo or run out. Having ammo of every gun makes them all relevant, even if they are just a backup weapon to conserve ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbluebeer Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 It was intended for more powerful weapons. We do have armor piercing rounds, we could enable it only on those and only the perks let you shoot through more than one target. Shotguns, no way. Slugs, probably. The perk would still say you can shoot through even more targets though. AP for shotguns would be silly yes, except for penetrating armor, or thick bone. (like say, a mutated bear?) A slug is basically a ranged sledgehammer. Load up a tungsten dart tho... hrmmm... (sabot round? right! were back to silly. FUN mind you, but silly) a .50 cal non-ap is going to punch through regular walls/doors and critters. Bear bone? *crunch* AP? Splat to anything short of rebar/steel. (and the rebar is maybe) alas, we don't HAVE .50cal in the game yet. (without mods) 7.62 that's where AP / penetration is going to be handy. 9mm? close quarters. the way the zeds stack up on TOP of each other, yes, handy. NEEDED actually. I've sneak shot zeds in head and theres 2 or 3 of them in the same spot! SO yes, line'em up and perk aka LEARN where, HOW, and what with to shoot'em to take down half a dozen with one bullet. (short of a 105mm canister round. that's my job!) oh, since we're getting a proper (sorta) machine gun, you realize we just HAVE to get tracers down the road. (yes, get performance fixed, but seriously... gotta have it for bloodmoon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimpy Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 How integrated is the armor system with the penetration system? Does the amount of enemies penetrated depend on how armored they are? Do certain limbs penetrate easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctoras Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 There is no problem mastering two perk trees and having bits of others. Once you get one tree maxed and rank 5 of the combat perks you are very powerful and the switch goes to looting anyway to optimize your gear to the best possible, and you start getting QOL perks. Like if you have rank 5 of blades its totally stupid to go for rank 5 of clubs or spears IMO. No sane person would want both of those. You pick one and run with it. Now there are of course combinations that might be fun requiring 10 of two attributes. Like hand to hand is under fortitude, maybe you want to be a sniper (perception) and use fists up close, then you would need two attributes maxed. The whole class system isn't hard set, its groups of stuff that make sense together that we feel make up a decent starter set, but players will want to cherry pick a few other things or at least get ok with them which isn't much of an investment to get 1-2 ranks of some perks. Thanks for the detailed answer. That sounds like a good and reasonable approach, I like what I read (and not only about the class system). It seems like A18 is gonna be a iteration most people will like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrook1028 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 It does. The trader quest links you to the closest trader, if I recall right. we never saw it fail in that at all in probably a hundred or two hours of gameplay. we would head out on the motorcycle, look for houses and mailboxes, and then see what the trader had to offer. No it absolutely does not always lead you to a new trader. It shows you the nearest trader. If the one you already know is closest then that is the one that it shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Perks are knowledge and with the right technique and knowledge I can comfortably justify how we're doing it. The perception guy is tough to fill out if you have any better ideas on what perception perks should be, I'm all ears. To me, this guy is perceptive and studied anatomy though shooting things 1000's of times and figured out where a bullet can shred through a zombie, or knows how walls studs are and can shoot between them and penetrate. I don't find that abstraction weird at all myself. I've worked in a lot of skilled trades and its painfully obvious that a good technique is 1000x more powerful than brute force. Like working metal if you put stress in the opposite direction the impact came from you can dolly out the the damage perfectly and not have to heat shrink or anything. So instead of working the dent out you remove the stress and the dent goes away on its own. Same with hammering. You can swing you shoulder or whole body into it an take 5 hits to put a nail in. Flick your wrist just slightly at the right moment and and nail it in with one shot. The more joints you involve the faster the momentum and force you can generate. Its applied technique learned through practice and being perceptive. Since you asked.. Here's a couple [sUG]s for Perception. Perception: "Eagle Eye's" (or whatever name) Rank 1: Can see +2m farther out then those without the ability. Rank 2: Can see +2m farther out then those without the ability. Rank 3: Can see +2m farther out then those without the ability. Rank 4: Can see +2m farther out then those without the ability. Increases FoV +2.5 degrees. Rank 5: Can see +2m farther out then those without the ability. Increases FoV +2.5 degrees. *At rank 5 can see an additional 10meters out from normal, and their FoV is spread an additional 5 degrees in view area* (FoV for those who won't just input the DM override) Perception: "Improved Fight or Flight Instinct" (or whatever name) Rank 1: Can hear entities +1 meters away then normal. Rank 2: Can hear entities +1 meters away then normal. Rank 3: Can hear entities +1 meters away then normal. Rank 4: Can hear entities +1 meters away then normal. Rank 5: Can hear entities +1 meters away then normal. *At Rank 5: Can hear entities an additional 5 meters around them* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survager Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 ...You'll get a forge and be able to do most anything slowly. With mods you will make less heat, smelt faster, and unlock steel with a crucible. Madmole, is that also down the road? ...or may on A18? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I have 13000+ hours in game.......... a16 we had over 5000+ players join first month alone.......... 13000+ hours ingame and 5000+ players on servers. Interesting first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 By all means give the hunting rifle superior penetration, it is after all a poor-mans sniper rifle. If you're going to add penetration for one weapon why not add it for all? Singling out the hunting rifle for this special ability will probably lead to cries of OP. If you do it for all the worst cry you're going to get is one of unbalanced. Does it make any sense at all that a hunting rifle has better penteration than a sniper rifle? What are you hunting? Tanks? You guys are way over-analysing random snippets of plans. =P Joel was mainly talking about the capability of having a bullet penetrate... something. Like at all. So chill. All AP ammo has 1 penetration... but does no extra damage over ball ammo. The Penetrator You find weak spots in a target's armor and can use AP bullets to shoot through multiple organic targets. Ignore 10% of armor with all firearms. Ignore 20% of armor with all firearms. Ignore 25% of armor with all firearms.\nArmor-piercing rounds can penetrate an additional target when using Hunting or Marksman Rifles. Ignore 25% of armor with all firearms.\nArmor-piercing rounds can penetrate two additional targets when using Hunting or Marksman Rifles. Ignore 25% of armor with all firearms.\nArmor-piercing rounds can penetrate three additional targets when using Hunting or Marksman Rifles. Again - and I cannot stress this enough - this is subject to change. But it's the first stab of actually putting this into context and sorting out items and perks. Having the code for a completely new capability is super awesome but it's only a starting point for design/balancing to make use of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trankitas Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Since you asked.. Here's a couple [sUG]s for Perception. Perception: "Eagle Eye's" (or whatever name) Rank 1: Can see +2m farther out then those without the ability. Rank 2: Can see +2m farther out then those without the ability. Rank 3: Can see +2m farther out then those without the ability. Rank 4: Can see +2m farther out then those without the ability. Increases FoV +2.5 degrees. Rank 5: Can see +2m farther out then those without the ability. Increases FoV +2.5 degrees. *At rank 5 can see an additional 10meters out from normal, and their FoV is spread an additional 5 degrees in view area* (FoV for those who won't just input the DM override) Perception: "Improved Fight or Flight Instinct" (or whatever name) Rank 1: Can hear entities +1 meters away then normal. Rank 2: Can hear entities +1 meters away then normal. Rank 3: Can hear entities +1 meters away then normal. Rank 4: Can hear entities +1 meters away then normal. Rank 5: Can hear entities +1 meters away then normal. *At Rank 5: Can hear entities an additional 5 meters around them* Don't do drugs guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Don't do drugs guys... And you have a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerfly Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 13000+ hours ingame and 5000+ players on servers. Interesting first post. Read his nickname again and slowly. I am about to believe him. - - - Updated - - - Don't do drugs guys... He have a good point in some way. We do not know how future balance is going, why not share some ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Perks are knowledge and with the right technique and knowledge I can comfortably justify how we're doing it. The perception guy is tough to fill out if you have any better ideas on what perception perks should be, I'm all ears. To me, this guy is perceptive and studied anatomy though shooting things 1000's of times and figured out where a bullet can shred through a zombie, or knows how walls studs are and can shoot between them and penetrate. I don't find that abstraction weird at all myself. I've worked in a lot of skilled trades and its painfully obvious that a good technique is 1000x more powerful than brute force. Like working metal if you put stress in the opposite direction the impact came from you can dolly out the the damage perfectly and not have to heat shrink or anything. So instead of working the dent out you remove the stress and the dent goes away on its own. Same with hammering. You can swing you shoulder or whole body into it an take 5 hits to put a nail in. Flick your wrist just slightly at the right moment and and nail it in with one shot. The more joints you involve the faster the momentum and force you can generate. Its applied technique learned through practice and being perceptive. Yeh but those are skills; perks are, or should be, for things that don't require skill but instead special knowledge. That you're struggling to find perks to fill out the perception guy illustrates the weakness of the perk system; you have to fill them with nonsensical perks when you run out of things that ACTUALLY may fit. If you MUST have a perk system (and I know I'm not going to win this one, y'all are decided) I think it should be things that you might be born with, or educated on, but that these things should be chosen upon character creation. Buying perks as you level up just makes them goofy. Buying STRONGER perks in the things you bought when creating the character could work though. Micheal Phelps perk - you have naturally broad shoulders and a good lung capacity, so your cardio is very good and you're a strong swimmer. This perk would make sense at character generation, AND it would make since to improve this perk as you go throughout life, i.e. now you have your level based incentives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerfly Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 <snipped for space> There is difference between getting a reference and copying from what you love. And it takes time to develop such a complex game. Find one that is even near to the experience that we have here. We here cannot. I mean me and my friends by that. No worries, no one will disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotpoon Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Perks cost 1 point but attributes go up in cost as you get to the higher tiers, so it pays to specialize because once you get an attribute to 10 you can get to rank 5 in the perks it governs for just 5 points each. Its not intended to be master of everything. Start a new game and play a new character. We haven't removed the possibility yet but it just stupid being able to buy every perk IMO. I think it is worth considering Roland's poll that he posted when A17 first came out - unfortunately I'm not sure how to find it, but one of the options asked if people would want to be able to eventually have all the points in the end. I recall it was overwhelmingly in favour of that. At the very least you might consider allowing for more points in single player. Specialisation is fine if you play with buddies and people have roles, but I'd imagine those that play solo would have a tougher time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUST2DEATH Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Don't do drugs guys... Maybe you havent done enough.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rassilon Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Maybe you havent done enough.... my attitude summed up every weekend^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telosbudo Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 include Active gun reloading please (remove auto reload). Maybe work on accurate shotgun reload animation at some point? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDog1942 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 I think it is worth considering Roland's poll that he posted when A17 first came out - unfortunately I'm not sure how to find it, but one of the options asked if people would want to be able to eventually have all the points in the end. I recall it was overwhelmingly in favour of that. At the very least you might consider allowing for more points in single player. Specialisation is fine if you play with buddies and people have roles, but I'd imagine those that play solo would have a tougher time. So turn down the difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trankitas Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 And you have a problem? Yes, those are not abilities you should buy with perks, FOV most be a option to everyone, seeing farther away means higher resources consumption so only people with good PC's could buy it and play with that perk. I mean, the whole desing behind those "perks" is wrong IMO. It is your opinion and there is no problem in sharing it, but I ASSURE you that those perks won't happend. - - - Updated - - - Light is going through walls, is this still an issue in A18? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 [ATTACH=CONFIG]28629[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]28630[/ATTACH] Light is going through walls, is this still an issue in A18? Not if you purchase a tier or two in the Opaque Walls perk.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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