Darkstardragon Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Gups just nitpicking, im sure plenty of players will love the bullet penetration whether its a perk or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crater Creator Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 So if the player has to have skills to line up multiple zeds for a shot, why do you need the perk. Someone who shoots a .50 cal round without the perk can only hit one target, but someone who shoots a 9mm with the perk can hit multiple targets. That's just goofy. -A Maybe "Its an RPG" isn't sinking in for some people yet? Sorry, it's just... I'm surprised if we're going to criticize the skill required for this one, when we've got over a hundred perk books coming. Many of them are already detailed in the top post. Out of the thirty books revealed so far, arguably only three of them will require player skill to take advantage of the bonus. For those that think it's goofy, I'd be more concerned about the others... like 'less fall damage when carrying 5,000 Dukes,' for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Perks have always been dumb. As a concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captnrex Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Perks have always been dumb. As a concept. I always think back to early World of Warcraft talents, mostly all minor number changes no real use/effect until the mist of pandaria expansion, that while not getting a rewarding talent point every level you hit milestones and could pick a new ability basically (15/30/45/60). I would for sure prefer a usable perk/ability over number increases. so original talents vs Mist of Pandaria version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanadon Conners Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 There is now a metal version of Diggy Diggy Hole. I kid you not. Very relevant in a game with lots of digging. EPIC! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exxodous Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Perks have always been dumb. As a concept. Perks for the most part govern character advancement (or so it seems to me). I think most of us can agree that character advancement is a critical part of the game. So I'm curious as to what you think is a better way. Are you a member of the LBD community? While I do see places in the game where this approach can work and makes sense, I can say that I've played a few games (Ultima Online and Runescape) that were almost entirely LBD and quite frankly the only way to not lose your mind was to set up macros that ran while you slept. (Bannable offenses btw) Overall I enjoy the perk system and I think the new books coming will compliment it very well but I'm interested in what you think would be a better system of developing/advancing your Character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Gups just nitpicking, im sure plenty of players will love the bullet penetration whether its a perk or not. Yup, each weapon should have a "Max Pen" stat that the game uses with the players perk. This would stop me from maxing the perk and using a smg to kill 10 zombies a second, standing at the end of a long narrow hallway on hoard night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 You don't get xp, you just get the nearest trader. ...if the nearest is the same one, that's on the player for not exploring. I'd argue that telling him where a DIFFERENT trader is, will further limit exploration because they would always know exactly where to go. I totally agree here. It makes sense that the traders advertise in their local area, so if you are close to one you'll be pointed back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrslyGTFO Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 So if the player has to have skills to line up multiple zeds for a shot, why do you need the perk. Someone who shoots a .50 cal round without the perk can only hit one target, but someone who shoots a 9mm with the perk can hit multiple targets. That's just goofy. -A That's not how MM said it would work. Here's a reminder: Its a perk under perception the sniper can use (works only on hunting rifles). I can only guess it was limited to the hunting rifle to limit how OP it could become on nearly any other weapon. Not sure why people keep assuming it'll work on SMGs or pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaVegaNL Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Can you make Shale discoverable in more than just the desert? The USA does not mine Shale/Oil from Desert so why is it only in the desert? we use to find it in the Burnt Biome as well. I can find you Geologist who will tell you under snow/water/any part of the world contains oil. Bonus: add a "fracking" mod so I can double the output Somebody called? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRizos Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I totally agree here. It makes sense that the traders advertise in their local area, so if you are close to one you'll be pointed back. It doesn't actually, can't see why someone would go through a bunch of possible ammo resources to advertise his position to Zs. With the introduction of white river settlements and bandits you could learn of new trader locations that way (be it another ally in the white river side, or a raid target should you choose to side with the bandits). If that is the end goal, then whatever placeholder system we get instead shouldn't matter. Supposing I'm way off the mark with what's said before, I do think that there is a need to learn of new trader locations other than simply stumbling across them while exploring - be it advertising or a light beacon along with a flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odetta Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Perks cost 1 point but attributes go up in cost as you get to the higher tiers, so it pays to specialize because once you get an attribute to 10 you can get to rank 5 in the perks it governs for just 5 points each. Its not intended to be master of everything. Start a new game and play a new character. We haven't removed the possibility yet but it just stupid being able to buy every perk IMO. Why lie, I'll use Glems for Gloobies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oort Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Yeah that doesn't work for me, it would have to for sure link you to the next trader not the same one possibly again. I like the idea that the trader starts to develop a trust or respect with the player as they successfully complete quests. After a few completed quests he offers them a job to take some trade items, that he either has excess stock in or hasn't been able to sell locally, to another trader (The nearest one) in and then they would return with whatever that trader couldn't sell or had a bunch of. If successful then he'll continue to offer trade missions to take cargo to traders further and further away. If the player aborts the quest, or fails, the trader will offer the same mission again, but until that quest/mission is completed he will not offer a delivery job like that to any other trader. This is to keep a player from taking the mission, seeing where the trader is, then aborting the mission. The first mission to that trader has to be done for free by the player, the payoff being the location of the trader, but after its completed any following mission/quests would have a payoff like any other quest. After x amount of cargo trade quests the trader would offer a job to the next distant trader - or maybe it becomes available whenever the player has done enough quests to open the next quest tier. This serves to help players find the traders, expands the quest variation and increase the number of places players can go to trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctoras Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Its not intended to be master of everything. Start a new game and play a new character. We haven't removed the possibility yet but it just stupid being able to buy every perk IMO. I don't think this is necessarily bad to be able to max everything out eventually. I don't know what is planned exactly, but I don't think a sandbox game as this benefits from artificial classes. In my professional career I have learnt two academic professions and I am sure, other people have learnt more. There is no reason that a doctor shouldn't also be a good plumber or gardener, given time and experience. Maybe master of everything is not needed, but channeling people into an artificial class system is - just in my opinion - not necessary either. It might well be a matter of balancing, though. It will no doubt be a tough task, best of luck on that. Very much looking forward to A18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gronk Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 My question is this. Why is penetration not a base mechanic for every weapon? Regardless of whether this is modified by perk or ammunition bonus the basic idea of being able to penetrate varying thickness of material really does need to be a universal mechanic. You're adding depth and variation to the core game without any extra overhead on system resources. How is this not win/win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shineblossom Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Being able to line up the shot should be enough... THAT takes skill. Buying a perk does not. It rewards players for specialization. Otherwise, why not scrap whole level system? When i invest my points in sniper rifle, i want to be sure that my sniper rifle is better than your sniper rifle (since you did not invest any points in that). And that is the whole point. I always think back to early World of Warcraft talents, mostly all minor number changes no real use/effect until the mist of pandaria expansion, that while not getting a rewarding talent point every level you hit milestones and could pick a new ability basically (15/30/45/60). I would for sure prefer a usable perk/ability over number increases. so original talents vs Mist of Pandaria version The classic talents were much better, especially in Wrath of the Lich King. First, you had "reward" feeling every level. Second, those "minor number adjustments" played a huge role and you could do multiple builds with them, even combine multiple specs together. Now, both are impossible. To be more specific, in new talents, you can "choose" one perk per row. The "choose" is in quotes, because we both know that it is not true, since only one of them is viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Being able to line up the shot should be enough... THAT takes skill. Buying a perk does not. Well, good mouse handling ability is something for sure. You can still aim for a headshot on the first zombie and probably get several in one shot. THAT will be both fun and funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 My question is this. Why is penetration not a base mechanic for every weapon? When I read that it was for the hunting rifle, my first thought was "damn, only on that useless weapon I didn't fire a single shot from for a year (real time).". The next thought was "ok, well, this was probably needed to make that weapon into something you would consider to use". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Perks for the most part govern character advancement (or so it seems to me). I think most of us can agree that character advancement is a critical part of the game. So I'm curious as to what you think is a better way. Are you a member of the LBD community? While I do see places in the game where this approach can work and makes sense, I can say that I've played a few games (Ultima Online and Runescape) that were almost entirely LBD and quite frankly the only way to not lose your mind was to set up macros that ran while you slept. (Bannable offenses btw) Overall I enjoy the perk system and I think the new books coming will compliment it very well but I'm interested in what you think would be a better system of developing/advancing your Character. Absolutely lbd. Because that's how life works. Game was fun when it had it, and the fun factor has gone down since it was removed while the pimps fumble around with perk balancing. Lbd didn't work for you in 20+ year old games? Where lbd was first introduced as a concept? Yeh I can accept that. But it's 2019, and lbd has been done right since Dungeon Siege. Another 20 yo game, so I guess it's implementation? But we are talking skills now, while I'm specifically targeting perks. Hate em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 @shine There are ways to reward specialization that aren't dumb. Being able to USE special weapons, load times, less jams, etc. All of which can increase by skill, not buying perks btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonestarcanuck Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 OMG I broke ur immershun. Get over it. You can rationalize its aiming for where there is no bone so the bullet can pass through and it is a learned technique, not a special ammo. We need Telescoped Ammo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survager Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Electromagnetic storm can shut down vehicles. Vultures will definitely take out bicycle dudes. Joel, is this just a reasoning or something like that is planned in alpha 18 or alpha 19 or latter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mideval Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I'm a fan of Ultima Online and Skyrim and I loved LBD. This is not UO or Skyrim here you can not use afk macros freely. But on the other hand, I understood Madmole's criticism of some LBD skills that did not make sense. But combat skills and other skills worked very well with LBD. I think the hybrid system would have been the best solution, but I respect the decision of the developers. It is a field open to modders and I do not understand why a modder that can "easily" modify the game can complain about it. In any case, you should complain if the systems to do so provided by TFP do not work properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THARN Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Should be a perk for less complaining.. some people are more rpg oriented-others more fps oriented... Not everyone is going to like everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shineblossom Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 When I read that it was for the hunting rifle, my first thought was "damn, only on that useless weapon I didn't fire a single shot from for a year (real time).". The next thought was "ok, well, this was probably needed to make that weapon into something you would consider to use". Depens on preferences. I personally LOVE the hunting rifle. It is not as good for BloodMoon Hordes, but open world, i take her out for dinner every time! @shine There are ways to reward specialization that aren't dumb. Being able to USE special weapons, load times, less jams, etc. All of which can increase by skill, not buying perks btw. Obviously, but i have to agree with Joel. Your character has to know how to shoot, to shoot penetrating shot. Not getting stacked in thickest part in skull etc. Of course, they could make 1000 little hitboxes on head (good lock, FPS even on high end computers!), and you would have to manually hit the right spot. Also, weapon jamming is not in the game. It would be hilarious, but it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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