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Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!


madmole

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!  

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  1. 1. Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

    • A18 Stable is Out!
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Absolutely lbd. Because that's how life works. Game was fun when it had it, and the fun factor has gone down since it was removed while the pimps fumble around with perk balancing.

 

Lbd didn't work for you in 20+ year old games? Where lbd was first introduced as a concept? Yeh I can accept that.

 

But it's 2019, and lbd has been done right since Dungeon Siege. Another 20 yo game, so I guess it's implementation?

 

But we are talking skills now, while I'm specifically targeting perks. Hate em.

 

While I respect your opinion I guess I just don't hate em lol. If your a hard core LBD believer I'm guessing Perks will never feel right. Consider the following however and let me know what you think.

 

It appears that TFP's goal is to not only have a system where you advance your character but you must also specialize your build. ie a builder, hunter, fighter, miner etc. Character progression has to be advanced somehow and two possible ways are LBD and Perks. I think the difference between the LBD and Perk systems as a way of advancing and developing your character is this:

 

In a completely LBD system if you play long enough eventually everyone's character is the same as they will have learned all skills. (unless you have a hard cap on overall skills) The problem with a hard cap in a LBD system is that if I do not want a miner character I must be careful to not hit any rocks as that puts points in a skill I do not want to specialize in, thus preventing me from using them where I want as I'll hit the hard cap.

 

Using a perk system it seems character specialization is easier to control while also providing a means of character development. Obviously this still requires a hard cap (skill points) but the advantage is I can still mine rocks if I need to make a campfire but I'm not forced into using my points there. I'll just never be very good at mining no matter how long I play.

 

Obviously A17 didn't implement all of this very well as most builds seemed to gravitate to the same skill sets so I'm interested to see if that is improved in A18. It sounds like it has based on MM feedback posts.

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When I read that it was for the hunting rifle, my first thought was "damn, only on that useless weapon I didn't fire a single shot from for a year (real time).". The next thought was "ok, well, this was probably needed to make that weapon into something you would consider to use".

 

By all means give the hunting rifle superior penetration, it is after all a poor-mans sniper rifle. If you're going to add penetration for one weapon why not add it for all? Singling out the hunting rifle for this special ability will probably lead to cries of OP. If you do it for all the worst cry you're going to get is one of unbalanced.

 

Does it make any sense at all that a hunting rifle has better penteration than a sniper rifle? What are you hunting? Tanks?

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How does it know where the other traders are? Is it xml only?

 

Yup, xml only. Here's the forum link to his mods.. its at the bottom on the first post. We used it in a16 as well as in a17 up until feb or so, and it works perfectly. We are sitting out waiting for the a18 exp releases and catching up on other games in the meantime.

 

BTW, a minecraft feature of note since you asked, is an area effect in underwater temples.

 

Your block breaking capability is nerfed during the area effect, forcing you to navigate the random generated temple mazes. While "gamey", it really makes you think differently out of the box on solutions.. especially since there are low light levels and the possibility of drowning the whole time. We just did our first one and it was hellah fun.

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This has the potential to radically change the game! It'll be interesting to see what defines a soft wall. Shapes, like plates and sheets? Materials, like dirt and wood? Or is it dynamic, based on the current HP of the block?

 

Scenario: While mining, you hear zombies digging into the dirt above you. Instead of having to surface or dig your way to them, you listen carefully and shoot them through the dirt.

 

Scenario: You're in PvP, trying to get a guy stubbornly holed up in his hardened bunker. You damage one concrete block enough to make it 'soft', but you don't destroy it. You train your sniper rifle on the block, and when you see the cracks start to disappear, you fire. The poor guy on the other side, trying to make repairs, is dead before he hits the ground. :D

 

Yeah I think its block hp. I hope to shoot through some wooden doors that are about to break from them hitting it and shoot them while the door is still intact.

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It's my bad, from the discussion I misunderstood that it was a book reward, which IMO would have been too specific to give it a mechanic like penetration.

 

Well currently it is a completion bonus for the magnum, so after collecting all 7 magnum books you can penetrate. We're still moving things around and could make the AP bullets do this instead of a perk. Its a game so it doesn't bother me, we're fighting radiated zombies and carrying 30 tons of stone around.

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Yeah that doesn't work for me, it would have to for sure link you to the next trader not the same one possibly again.

 

It does. The trader quest links you to the closest trader, if I recall right. we never saw it fail in that at all in probably a hundred or two hours of gameplay. we would head out on the motorcycle, look for houses and mailboxes, and then see what the trader had to offer.

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There is now a metal version of Diggy Diggy Hole.

I kid you not.

 

Very relevant in a game with lots of digging. ;)

 

So that is how you deal with the grindy mining in this game. I could dig for hours too rocking it out to that :)

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I'm torn on that, needing a specific resource in a specific biome gives you reason to travel and find that particular biome. I found no lakes so I had to spend a full day finding a snow biome for water, and it felt rewarding when I did. Until then, I couldn't waste any water on glue.

 

Thats something I miss from earlier experimentals. At least in a17, pretty much every resource was available in every biome. I want reasons to HAVE to explore the new rwg map to find things we really need. With fewer biomes that was an issue, but now that we'll have sub biomes, maybe some materials can be sub biome specific?

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I read and re-read this but I think I still must not understand. Are you saying if a player has 80 bullets, they can make a box or belt or whatever containing 100 bullets?

 

No that would be infinite ammo. 80% of the cost to craft 100 rounds in mats. For 9mm its 80 casings, 80 GP, 80 tips to make a box of 9mm ammo which is 100 rounds. You unpack it when you need them and it converts to 100 9mm bullets.

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So if the player has to have skills to line up multiple zeds for a shot, why do you need the perk.

 

Someone who shoots a .50 cal round without the perk can only hit one target, but someone who shoots a 9mm with the perk can hit multiple targets.

 

That's just goofy.

 

-A

Actually no the 9mm can't do it at all, he can ignore armor at point blank range is what his perk does. Another risk reward design I came up with for the 9mm guy to be able to deal with armored enemies.

 

Right now its only on the sniper (bought with perks)and magnum, sniper buys the perks, magnum guy collects 7 books to unlock it, good luck with that. I'm on day 13 and have 2 magnum books so far, finding the full set to complete the bonuses is not easy, and has never even been done in testing afaik, but we don't play long games usually so many things chance during balancing we restart to get an accurate assessment of the changes.

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Yay! I've started reusing the shotgun with the sawn-off barrel mod and the other ones that help with handling and accuracy. It's a beast. Then when A18 comes with dragon rounds, my god. What ammo does the M60, I'm assuming 7.62?

 

Yes.

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My problem is that it feel like a bug. Who wants to do a quest that leads to the same trader? And would you get XP for completing it? Kind of silly. We'll just do it right, where the trader will tell you he's out of work right now but heard bob could use some help, I'll mark his location on your map or it starts another quest called find Trader Bob, etc.

 

That works as well, BUT it eliminates the need to explore and discover without being spoon fed. Maybe the initial trader quest code can be looked at to make sure it IS in fact sending the player to the closest trader? (I would hope that it WOULD be... I recall spending the first 3 days of one playthrough traipsing through wasteland trying to get to my starting quest trader, cursing that distance the entire way.)

That would make the leaflets idea rock solid, and encourage exploration instead of just daily trader visits.

 

I like that there is a reason to use the traders now, but I don't want to have to go there for every single thing. Share the love!

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Just because you can do it, doesn't mean your character in game can. Consider it training. ;)

 

Seriously though, reading some of these replies, it's amazing MM keeps coming back. Don't agree with it? Go play something else. Or make your own game...

 

Yep, its getting close to hiatus mode.

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You don't get xp, you just get the nearest trader.

 

...if the nearest is the same one, that's on the player for not exploring.

 

I'd argue that telling him where a DIFFERENT trader is, will further limit exploration because they would always know exactly where to go.

 

"...if the nearest is the same one, that's on the player for not exploring [far enough away].

 

Exactly. Red Eagle's mod was one of those great idea game changers for us.

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You're missing the conversation.

 

I'm fine with bullets penetrating multiple targets. I'm not fine with perks having to be bought to do so.

Perks are knowledge and with the right technique and knowledge I can comfortably justify how we're doing it. The perception guy is tough to fill out if you have any better ideas on what perception perks should be, I'm all ears. To me, this guy is perceptive and studied anatomy though shooting things 1000's of times and figured out where a bullet can shred through a zombie, or knows how walls studs are and can shoot between them and penetrate. I don't find that abstraction weird at all myself.

 

I've worked in a lot of skilled trades and its painfully obvious that a good technique is 1000x more powerful than brute force. Like working metal if you put stress in the opposite direction the impact came from you can dolly out the the damage perfectly and not have to heat shrink or anything. So instead of working the dent out you remove the stress and the dent goes away on its own.

 

Same with hammering. You can swing you shoulder or whole body into it an take 5 hits to put a nail in. Flick your wrist just slightly at the right moment and and nail it in with one shot. The more joints you involve the faster the momentum and force you can generate. Its applied technique learned through practice and being perceptive.

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Perks have always been dumb. As a concept.

 

Ok 1 billion Skyrim and Fallout customers would disagree with you. There are highly successful youtube channels like Fudgemuppet, where all he does is talk about specific builds, made from perk choices to fit a certain play style and a bit of backstory for character ideas. But the crux of it is the perk choices and interesting strengths and weaknesses of that particular build. It allows the game to have more replay value and get good at what you want without gear or the random number generators dictating your progression as much.

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I don't think this is necessarily bad to be able to max everything out eventually. I don't know what is planned exactly, but I don't think a sandbox game as this benefits from artificial classes. In my professional career I have learnt two academic professions and I am sure, other people have learnt more. There is no reason that a doctor shouldn't also be a good plumber or gardener, given time and experience.

 

Maybe master of everything is not needed, but channeling people into an artificial class system is - just in my opinion - not necessary either.

 

It might well be a matter of balancing, though. It will no doubt be a tough task, best of luck on that.

 

Very much looking forward to A18

 

There is no problem mastering two perk trees and having bits of others. Once you get one tree maxed and rank 5 of the combat perks you are very powerful and the switch goes to looting anyway to optimize your gear to the best possible, and you start getting QOL perks. Like if you have rank 5 of blades its totally stupid to go for rank 5 of clubs or spears IMO. No sane person would want both of those. You pick one and run with it. Now there are of course combinations that might be fun requiring 10 of two attributes. Like hand to hand is under fortitude, maybe you want to be a sniper (perception) and use fists up close, then you would need two attributes maxed.

 

The whole class system isn't hard set, its groups of stuff that make sense together that we feel make up a decent starter set, but players will want to cherry pick a few other things or at least get ok with them which isn't much of an investment to get 1-2 ranks of some perks.

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Sometimes I wish this forum section, since its called Dev diary, was just MM and the pimps discussing changes and explaining why they are happening without the feedback option. Then have a separate forum channel for feedback/recommendations/but mostly whining on those changes.

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My question is this.

 

Why is penetration not a base mechanic for every weapon?

 

Regardless of whether this is modified by perk or ammunition bonus the basic idea of being able to penetrate varying thickness of material really does need to be a universal mechanic.

 

You're adding depth and variation to the core game without any extra overhead on system resources. How is this not win/win?

 

It was intended for more powerful weapons. We do have armor piercing rounds, we could enable it only on those and only the perks let you shoot through more than one target. Shotguns, no way. Slugs, probably. The perk would still say you can shoot through even more targets though.

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When I read that it was for the hunting rifle, my first thought was "damn, only on that useless weapon I didn't fire a single shot from for a year (real time).". The next thought was "ok, well, this was probably needed to make that weapon into something you would consider to use".

 

Exactly, people are wanting it on every weapon when the design intent was to make the sniper feel special instead of a mostly useless weapon. We have lots of interesting new things for each weapon with the perk books.

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Should be a perk for less complaining..

 

some people are more rpg oriented-others more fps oriented... Not everyone is going to like everything.

 

We won't make every LBD fan happy but I do believe that we've addressed a ton of concerns and the perk rebalance is playing great. It was criticized because there was no choice and too many must haves, now there is choice and specialization is a no brainer and a strong desire to loot. Perks augment abilities more than just unlock things and all the best gear is looted now. I think as a whole its the best version of the game by far, and I'm anxious to get it out. Balance is better than ever too.

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Ok 1 billion Skyrim and Fallout customers would disagree with you.
A billion??? A tad exagerated to say the least.

 

IMHO, This is not Skyrim nor Fallout no matter how much you want it to be, and you dont have the manpower to make it like that either... I for one wouldnt have touched this game if it was. Those are something my teenage son and his friends play. Lucrative targets, I know. But they say that vanilla is unplayable so they play heavily modded.

 

I play 7d2d and have loved doing so until A17 dropped, now i dont like it at all. I'm hanging around til A18 drops, playing modded. If you keep referring to, and try to "copy" those games you keep mentioning, 7d2d will just turn in to a bad copy. You said yoursekf before A17 droppes that it was the best Alpha yet. Now tou say the same about A18 and that worries me...

 

All my personal opinion so feel free to disagree anyone.

 

Shin

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Clothing will support 1 mod slot in A18. Right now if you find the right needle and thread book you can install pocket mods to reduce encumbrance. One step closer to not needing strength/pack mule.

 

Madmole, is that, if we find the book "Needle and Thread", then we will be able to install an additional pocket mod on clothes, even if the first cell is already occupied by another mod, for example, an insulated mod?

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