Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Roland]

2 hours ago, Zoe Lycan said:

but this project will soon reach a 2 decade long stage in ALPHA.

 

Not even close. We just celebrated the 9th year of its entire life span this past summer and are approaching the 9th year of it being in Early Access on Steam. Next year will mark 1 decade.  2 Decades is 20 years so you are way off. 

 

2 hours ago, Zoe Lycan said:

And I'll be a bit salty here, specially with a project that started as a Minecraft Clone.

 

Are you sure? Minecraft released in 2011 so if we've been in Alpha since 2002 (2 decades ago) then maybe Minecraft started as a 7 Days to Die clone...

Edited October 19, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[Fanatical_Meat]

2 hours ago, faatal said:

Releasing a build by a date can be done many ways. We are not doing a toss it out at some date regardless of how it works. We are doing what features can be done by a date (month/season, not an exact date) and then polish and bug fix THOSE features. If those features are not ready, then the date will slip until they are.

Honestly I am fine with a buggy first release and I’d prefer to have it a little early even if that means it’s a little screwed up.

[DanLW]

1 hour ago, Zoe Lycan said:

What I honestly think is that TFP should have moved this project into a new modern engine. 

 

I hate to say it since I like getting a new game for free ever since I started backing a decade or so ago (most alphas feel like a new game), but an engine change would be more of something I would expect for a "7 More Days to Die", or whatever the sequel will be called.

 

Sure, I would love to see endless Alphas to include engine changes and graphics updates without having to pay again.  But in realville, they need to make money and licensing a new engine would be expensive, not to mention all the code rework.

 

They should finish the game as good as it can be for the current engine and them move on to the next thing.  (As I understand, the next game is not a 7DTD sequel... I recall MadMole mentioning something about vampires a while back). That way the modding community can take over in earnest without having to worry about game changes that will break everything on the next Alpha.

Edited October 19, 2022 by DanLW
Mobile text speling erers. (see edit history)

[Star69]

To those wondering about why it is still in alpha, the developers have stated that the game will go gold once all of the features mentioned in the kickstarter have been met. If you’re that curious, go read the features list in the kickstarter and you’ll have a good idea how close it is to gold.

[unholyjoe]

1 hour ago, Fanatical_Meat said:

Honestly I am fine with a buggy first release and I’d prefer to have it a little early even if that means it’s a little screwed up.

i was waiting to see how long this infamous statement comes to life... AGAIN

it didnt take long 😇

Edited October 19, 2022 by unholyjoe (see edit history)

[Riamus]

13 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

i was waiting to see how long this infamous statement comes to life... AGAIN

it didnt take long 😇

Lol.  Honestly, one of the worst things a developer can do is release a buggy game instead of delaying the release to fix the bugs.  The negative reviews from a buggy release can seriously damage overall sales.

[khzmusik]

45 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Lol.  Honestly, one of the worst things a developer can do is release a buggy game instead of delaying the release to fix the bugs.  The negative reviews from a buggy release can seriously damage overall sales.

 

Depends upon what you mean by "release." If the game were going gold, then you're right. I also agree with you about stable releases, though I could see arguments otherwise.

 

But if we're talking about experimental releases, then I think releasing earlier is better, for two reasons: 1) there's more time for players to find bugs, and 2) it allows modders more time to update things before a stable release.

 

The catch is that players expect a stable release soon after the first experimental release. An ideal time between experimental and stable could be a month or more. But I don't think that would fly.

[Snowydeath]

20 hours ago, Zoe Lycan said:

What I honestly think is that TFP should have moved this project into a new modern engine. As I play the game, it is still quite shocking to me that some aspects of the game are still so unpolished or feel clunky. This is even more noticeable on multiplayer, looking at another player model interact with the world. NO animations and movement is clunky. This project has been in Alpha for way too long. It's about time they "as developers" finalize this project. I've been calling it a project and not a game because their intention of making so many mayor changes proves they were not happy with what they previously did. Which is a normal thing on a 3-5 years Alpha, but this project will soon reach a 2 decade long stage in ALPHA. I only know of some MOVIE stop-motion claymation that have similar time in the making, but though out they mostly have a clear goal and passion. Here it sure feels like they are presenting this project and want us to play it, the exact way they envision the game.
And I'll be a bit salty here, specially with a project that started as a Minecraft Clone. Don't get me wrong I enjoy 7dtd, since I like survival games and zombies are always a nice theme, but truth be told, that's how it started, but was able to offer something new. Sadly Now we don't see that same "new" since it has been so long in Alpha and still feels incomplete, both from players point of view and clearly from game devs, if they still have the need to re-work the entire project.

I guess you don't realize that games stay in alpha longer than you think. Hell, look at Star Citizen. It's been worked on for well over a decade and yet I see few complaints from the actual playerbase. On top of that, they rework systems here BECAUSE it's an Alpha. The whole point is to get the game where the developers intend and then releaee it. Not cater to you and a few others who don't know what they want or know what the game is supposed to be (it's their vision, not yours).

Edited October 20, 2022 by meganoth
language (see edit history)

[Riamus]

25 minutes ago, khzmusik said:

 

Depends upon what you mean by "release." If the game were going gold, then you're right. I also agree with you about stable releases, though I could see arguments otherwise.

 

But if we're talking about experimental releases, then I think releasing earlier is better, for two reasons: 1) there's more time for players to find bugs, and 2) it allows modders more time to update things before a stable release.

 

The catch is that players expect a stable release soon after the first experimental release. An ideal time between experimental and stable could be a month or more. But I don't think that would fly.

Yes, I was talking about gold release.  That is what the original quote post seems to be suggesting... That they'd be fine with a buggy release rather than wait.

[Matt115]

4 hours ago, Zoe Lycan said:

What I honestly think is that TFP should have moved this project into a new modern engine. As I play the game, it is still quite shocking to me that some aspects of the game are still so unpolished or feel clunky. This is even more noticeable on multiplayer, looking at another player model interact with the world. NO animations and movement is clunky. This project has been in Alpha for way too long. It's about time they "as developers" finalize this project. I've been calling it a project and not a game because their intention of making so many mayor changes proves they were not happy with what they previously did. Which is a normal thing on a 3-5 years Alpha, but this project will soon reach a 2 decade long stage in ALPHA. I only know of some MOVIE stop-motion claymation that have similar time in the making, but though out they mostly have a clear goal and passion. Here it sure feels like they are presenting this project and want us to play it, the exact way they envision the game.
And I'll be a bit salty here, specially with a project that started as a Minecraft Clone. Don't get me wrong I enjoy 7dtd, since I like survival games and zombies are always a nice theme, but truth be told, that's how it started, but was able to offer something new. Sadly Now we don't see that same "new" since it has been so long in Alpha and still feels incomplete, both from players point of view and clearly from game devs, if they still have the need to re-work the entire project.

This game get 2 big overhauls - "smoth terrain" and "HD".  Honestly - who cares about animations? this change anything? I played in cod 1,2 5 ww2 and vanguard and... animations mean totaly nothing -  what's visible? rangdoll, gibing bodies. And 7dtd have this. Alpha of games can... take many years. If rumors are true - remake of SH2 was scrapped MANY times.  I know many Early access game that were left but TFP still develop this game.   New things? full physics  voxel world? One of them most unsual types of zombie game?

" specially with a project that started as a Minecraft Clone" well cod started as medal of honor cod, kiling floor as l4d2 clone, dino crysis as resident evil clone and... this is nothing new or bad. And even more - if it would be so easy somobody would make similair game - but nobody  is making similiar game to 7dtd. And idk if you know... move on another engine... woudn't help with anything. I hope their next game will be using Unreal engine 5 but move on this engine 7dtd is just unrealistic. 

[Blake_]

7 hours ago, faatal said:

Releasing a build by a date can be done many ways. We are not doing a toss it out at some date regardless of how it works. We are doing what features can be done by a date (month/season, not an exact date) and then polish and bug fix THOSE features. If those features are not ready, then the date will slip until they are.

Does that mean that you guys already have a set of chosen features for a21 and do not plan to push them back until they are done or is content lock not achieved yet and many features are in flux?.

[Roland]

We are not in content lock, there are features in flux, and A21 won’t be held up for features that aren’t ready. When the project manager and the owners decide that it is time for content lock then any features not ready will get punted and those that are ready or can be ready for the experimental release will be included. As faatal said there are features they have prioritized and content lock won’t happen until those features are ready. Any others are up in the air. When the dev stream happens and they show what they’ve been working on you’ll know at that point what those priority features are. 
 

I’d say that if this alpha has a main theme it is art assets. There are so many new original assets in the game. Things you probably never realized were placeholders have been replaced with awesome original assets specifically commissioned for the game. So many POIs have been updated with amazing items. Maybe not super exciting for those hoping for big gameplay changes and content but huge for builders (in between all their forced loot runs, of course…haha)

 

I do hope bandits make it in at least in an acceptable basic form but it is not a clinched feature yet for A21. It is still possible though so send faatal lots of positive energy!!

Edited October 20, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

Personally, I hope content lock for A21 happens very soon.  As much as I would love for the alpha to be held back until certain features are done, there are alot of other features / changes that will be in a good place for testing/feedback in A21.  Plus, I dare guess, we have a lot of players who look forward to enjoying the latest changes to 7 Days to Die during the winter holiday season. 

[Roland]

6 hours ago, Fanatical_Meat said:

Honestly I am fine with a buggy first release and I’d prefer to have it a little early even if that means it’s a little screwed up.

It’s a balance. There are a ton of known bugs they are working on. They want to clear as many of the known issues as they can so that nobody is making pointless bug reports. WIP items also need to be finished because no programmer wants a bunch of bug reports for something that isn’t buggy so much as it just isn’t finished. Even on the team devs are often communicating with the Smurfs to request “no bug reports yet” when they first commit something because it is still a work in progress and they know it isn’t working as fully intended yet. Level Design Guys like Laz are also vocal about when they are ready to hear feedback on a new POI. 

[bdubyah]

44 minutes ago, Roland said:

It is still possible though so send faatal lots of positive energy!!

@faatal

 

[wolfbain5]

On 10/18/2022 at 1:50 PM, faatal said:

Nothing with bandits is confirmed. They need to reach a certain functionality and quality level before initial release and we are short on time for A21.

short on time? as in getting close to getting it out for us to toy with?

 

[Blake_]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

We are not in content lock, there are features in flux, and A21 won’t be held up for features that aren’t ready. When the project manager and the owners decide that it is time for content lock then any features not ready will get punted and those that are ready or can be ready for the experimental release will be included. As faatal said there are features they have prioritized and content lock won’t happen until those features are ready. Any others are up in the air. When the dev stream happens and they show what they’ve been working on you’ll know at that point what those priority features are. 
 

I’d say that if this alpha has a main theme it is art assets. There are so many new original assets in the game. Things you probably never realized were placeholders have been replaced with awesome original assets specifically commissioned for the game. So many POIs have been updated with amazing items. Maybe not super exciting for those hoping for big gameplay changes and content but huge for builders (in between all their forced loot runs, of course…haha)

 

I do hope bandits make it in at least in an acceptable basic form but it is not a clinched feature yet for A21. It is still possible though so send faatal lots of positive energy!!

He has all my best wishes, even if they aren't worth much. TFP have quite a lot of exceptional devs. Except Smack9000. He is 'shaping up' to be a PR nightmare because he doesn't give us time"frames". And the  'window' for release is closing.  More importantly he wouldn't ´´gable´´ with anybody on what the stakes are for this alpha. Imma head out now. Wait for me around the corner half.

2 hours ago, Laz Man said:

Personally, I hope content lock for A21 happens very soon.  As much as I would love for the alpha to be held back until certain features are done, there are alot of other features / changes that will be in a good place for testing/feedback in A21.  Plus, I dare guess, we have a lot of players who look forward to enjoying the latest changes to 7 Days to Die during the winter holiday season. 

Well, I don't mind another waiting alpha. But basic bandits are indeed a thing worth finishing ASAP and also getting feedback as soon as possible to make them the best they can be for Gold. A long wait can still result in "meh" balancing if done too close to Gold. Still, they are too green for school yet, and there's no rush for release because that means a shot in the leg for this incredibly ambitious title. Edit: begging for a screenshot here, it can be a POI ya know.....

Edited October 20, 2022 by Blake_ (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

It is still possible though so send faatal lots of positive energy!

@faatal

[Crater Creator]

5 hours ago, Roland said:

I do hope bandits make it in at least in an acceptable basic form but it is not a clinched feature yet for A21. It is still possible though so send faatal lots of positive energy!!

 

[Matt115]

7 hours ago, Roland said:

We are not in content lock, there are features in flux, and A21 won’t be held up for features that aren’t ready. When the project manager and the owners decide that it is time for content lock then any features not ready will get punted and those that are ready or can be ready for the experimental release will be included. As faatal said there are features they have prioritized and content lock won’t happen until those features are ready. Any others are up in the air. When the dev stream happens and they show what they’ve been working on you’ll know at that point what those priority features are. 
 

I’d say that if this alpha has a main theme it is art assets. There are so many new original assets in the game. Things you probably never realized were placeholders have been replaced with awesome original assets specifically commissioned for the game. So many POIs have been updated with amazing items. Maybe not super exciting for those hoping for big gameplay changes and content but huge for builders (in between all their forced loot runs, of course…haha)

 

I do hope bandits make it in at least in an acceptable basic form but it is not a clinched feature yet for A21. It is still possible though so send faatal lots of positive energy!!

 

7 hours ago, Laz Man said:

Personally, I hope content lock for A21 happens very soon.  As much as I would love for the alpha to be held back until certain features are done, there are alot of other features / changes that will be in a good place for testing/feedback in A21.  Plus, I dare guess, we have a lot of players who look forward to enjoying the latest changes to 7 Days to Die during the winter holiday season. 

 

3 Words. Skeleton prop please 😭 If  there will be a lot of  new assets maybe one of them will be skeleton prop! Guys please ask Madmole or someone maybe they will agree to show us this critical improve ☠️

[SnowDog1942]

9 hours ago, Roland said:

As faatal said there are features they have prioritized and content lock won’t happen until those features are ready. 
 

…….

 

I do hope bandits make it in at least in an acceptable basic form but it is not a clinched feature yet for A21. 

Thats a shame right there.  Was hoping bandits would be the feature to hold it up

[DanLW]

I for one applaud TFP and am grateful that the (post-experimental) Alpha builds have been very stable.  Heck, even the experimental builds don't really crash for me.  So I am all for waiting a little longer for a stable build.  As a Star Citizen backer, I haven't really played for over a year, partly because I was frustrated with losing my ship and cargo to instability due to game/server crashes, and partly because I was having a lot more fun playing 7DTD solo.  I'll go back to Star Citizen once their next Alpha is out, but I doubt things will improve until they get persistent entity streaming AND server meshing working.  If its still a 30K fest (a 30000 error in SC is a server crash), I'll be right back playing 7DTD.

[Tabby]

My first post so please be kind. Regarding bandits. Will there be a way to turn them off, like feral sense? I get killed enough by zombies, dogs, bears, mountain lions, and pretty much anything else in game that can kill you. Bandits don't even interest me.

[Blake_]

5 minutes ago, Tabby said:

My first post so please be kind. Regarding bandits. Will there be a way to turn them off, like feral sense? I get killed enough by zombies, dogs, bears, mountain lions, and pretty much anything else in game that can kill you. Bandits don't even interest me.

Nice to meet you Tabby ! Welcome to the forums. That's a very good question. Only wonderful human beings use "kind" and "kill" in their first post so I'm flattered to make your acquaintance ! About your question, I'm no dev, but I believe I can help you with that. There is currently a way to disable Zds in the starting menu, so I'm guessing you can be pretty sure that we will have a hostility-free playthrough if we choose creative mode, even in future alphas.

 

I do enjoy just building too from time to time.

 

Again, consider this place your new digital home ! Welcome.

[Tabby]

12 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Nice to meet you Tabby ! Welcome to the forums. That's a very good question. Only wonderful human beings use "kind" and "kill" in their first post so I'm flattered to make your acquaintance ! About your question, I'm no dev, but I believe I can help you with that. There is currently a way to disable Zds in the starting menu, so I'm guessing you can be pretty sure that we will have a hostility-free playthrough if we choose creative mode, even in future alphas.

 

I do enjoy just building too from time to time.

 

Again, consider this place your new digital home ! Welcome.

Thank you for the welcome. Kind, kill, close enough. The building is fun. I just don't like the idea of being shot at while I'm still in the wood club phase. Brings back memories of growing up with 3 older brothers.