Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[faatal]

5 hours ago, Lord Morphleyes said:

 

My son is scared of getting lost on a new map.  My wife is now fine with changing or staying.  

 

My son may just have to suck it up.  A 4k RWG sounds like a fun project   

6, 8 or 10 k are your size choices in A20.

[SittingDuck]

On 11/25/2021 at 4:24 PM, Ouch Quit It said:

Coughs* Airport POI * Coughs

 

man that sounds awefull and it´s lasting for quite a while... you should cure that. 😜

[beerfly]

13 minutes ago, SittingDuck said:

man that sounds awefull and it´s lasting for quite a while... you should cure that. 😜

We crash with our gyrocopters everywhere and at any time. Why not have a designated POI for that. Sounds fair 

[Blake_]

1 hour ago, faatal said:

6, 8 or 10 k are your size choices in A20.

No 4k is going to hurt. 6k maps use less dedicated memory, but still bad for potatoes. 

 

Please, I insist to @Kinyajuu that the following 2 sizes are a must because of these reasons:

 

There are many use cases for 2048 x 2048 and 4096x4096 sizes:

 

1-Quick testing of a whole world with negligible generation times.

2-Short gameplay sessions. 

3-Long 1-4 players cooperative gameplay sessions with a small well-known world, as some players like to rotate around the same few cities most of the time.

4-Great for PvP. The smaller, the faster and more intense a session.

5-Small packages are cool and produce tingles in all the right places for players (Erick's words, mostly)

6-More size options is the right way to go in any situation, environment or videogame. I won't specify for Snowdog's sake.

7-Smaller sizes are Great for Potato pcs as they use so little memory that you can even stream with an overclocked pencil and a wooden keyboard.

 

 

Bigger than 10k? Also a YES. Everybody wants that. I wouldn't go further than 65k x 65k though, due to 7dtd Gold candidate's top GPUS of 2024 being just right for that size. 

 

Some of the pros of bigger are:

 

-Future proof and server proof. It can even support the allowed 16-player option that we can currently choose when creating a new game.

-Bigger means many hours for many players like a 10k for 2 players, as opposed to fewer hours for many players (current situation in 8-player maps).

-The bigger, the crazier destroying mayhem we can cause and then move on far away because of "reasons".

-For those who prefer slower, longer burning sessions.

-You can spend either a short time or 400 hours exploring, your choice, the world is huge.

 

 

Please consider the smaller ones for a20. Big comes later. 

 

 

[mstdv inc]

2 hours ago, Professor-Pip said:

Yeah, if I were to make a mod, I would probably add two items that you could find easily in shops. A watch (in many different shops) and an area map (in gas stations, book stores and sporting goods/gun shops). Before you find them, you have no map and no clock on your hud. The compass can arguably be said to be sense of direction based off the sun’s position, but I might add a compass as well.
 

in a lot of ways this might make the early game too difficult if the RNGods are @%$#y, but it would add another level of immersion.

I would love to play such a mod!

[Lord Morphleyes]

5 hours ago, Gazz said:

You can't get lost in a game that has an auto map, automatic markers for home base and bedroll, custom map markers...

I agree but he is 9 and gets scared when he is alone.  Once we were clearing a POI at night and he died. Who knows what happened to his bedroll.  He respawned in the forest about a kilometer from us and lost his $#it.  There were tears. 

 

To his credit though he did redeem himself later when night caught us in the hospital and me and my wife died.  With no headlights or weapon flashlights we got stuck trying to fight in the dark and couldn't coordinate fast enough who was going to hold the flashlight while the others fought.  There were still tears, but he pushed through and fought his way out, beating zombies with his torch.  

[Burrfly]

1 hour ago, faatal said:

6, 8 or 10 k are your size choices in A20.

I can't wait to start a20 and select 10km² map with alllllllllll the new features and terrain and world gen and much more!!!!!!! That's gonna be so epic  

 

Just for comparison...

Navezgane is 6k (6144m²) = 6144×6144 = ~38 million blocks on X+Z axis

10k random gen (10240m² if I'm correct) = 10240×10240 = ~105 million blocks on just X+Z axis

 

105 million / 38 million = almost 3 times bigger map surface......... 😮

 

I hope I did the math correctly 🙂

[mstdv inc]

4 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

No 4k is going to hurt. 6k maps use less dedicated memory, but still bad for potatoes.

 

Please, I insist to @Kinyajuu that the following 2 sizes are a must because of these reasons:

 

There are many use cases for 2048 x 2048 and 4096x4096 sizes:

 

1-Quick testing of a whole world with negligible generation times.

2-Short gameplay sessions.

3-Long 1-4 players cooperative gameplay sessions with a small well-known world, as some players like to rotate around the same few cities most of the time.

4-Great for PvP. The smaller, the faster and more intense a session.

5-Small packages are cool and produce tingles in all the right places for players (Erick's words, mostly)

6-More size options is the right way to go in any situation, environment or videogame. I won't specify for Snowdog's sake.

7-Smaller sizes are Great for Potato pcs as they use so little memory that you can even stream with an overclocked pencil and a wooden keyboard.

 

 

Bigger than 10k? Also a YES. Everybody wants that. I wouldn't go further than 65k x 65k though, due to 7dtd Gold candidate's top GPUS of 2024 being just right for that size.

 

Some of the pros of bigger are:

 

-Future proof and server proof. It can even support the allowed 16-player option that we can currently choose when creating a new game.

-Bigger means many hours for many players like a 10k for 2 players, as opposed to fewer hours for many players (current situation in 8-player maps).

-The bigger, the crazier destroying mayhem we can cause and then move on far away because of "reasons".

-For those who prefer slower, longer burning sessions.

-You can spend either a short time or 400 hours exploring, your choice, the world is huge.

 

 

Please consider the smaller ones for a20. Big comes later.

 

 

I would love to be able to create a 2048x2048 map entirely consisting of a city.

[Burrfly]

5 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

65k x 65k

Wait...

65k.....??? 😮 

Isn't that....... a little bit too much...........?????

that's more than 4 BILLION blocks PER LAYER on the X+Z axis

I think 16K is more than enough for a max, even in a large server with a lot of people

[JayzenFreeze]

reaching the end of November now... The sadness.

[Blake_]

19 minutes ago, Burrfly said:

Wait...

65k.....??? 😮 

Isn't that....... a little bit too much...........?????

that's more than 4 BILLION blocks PER LAYER on the X+Z axis

I think 16K is more than enough for a max, even in a large server with a lot of people

Hahaha I get you. But no. It's not that much even for 8 players. 100 hours of joint exploration and systematic nomad gameplay.

[Roland]

8 hours ago, Lord Morphleyes said:

 

My son is scared of getting lost on a new map.  My wife is now fine with changing or staying.  

 

My son may just have to suck it up.  A 4k RWG sounds like a fun project   

 

I recommend using one of the Pregen maps. There are three and they will all be newly generated using all the A20 map generation features. Like Navezgane, they will be ready to play.

 

Navezgane has been updated some but it won't have every new POI added by A20. It is planned to get Navezgane updated with all the new POIs by A21. 

[POCKET951]

1 hour ago, JayzenFreeze said:

reaching the end of November now... The sadness.

one persons sadness is another persons joy.

even though thanksgiving was yesterday I am thankful for the fact that we will slowly keep getting more POI's untill Alpha20 is ready to go stable.

Is there anything else being worked on for A20 that isn't gated by content lock to be grateful for?

question though:
it has been wanted for over 5 years at this point, how come TFP won't add some kind of tool/vehicle for cutting /removing grass more efficiently or harvesting crops?

 

why not make it so molotovs can atleast start grass fires that will burn and destroy alot of it

[Blake_]

26 minutes ago, POCKET951 said:

one persons sadness is another persons joy.

We have already surpassed 18 and 19 combined in number of POI to come in a20.

 

a20 is similar to a17 in amount of content vs the alpha that came before. Downside (for me) is that around 30% of the richness within this tangible gameplay content comes from Twitch integration features, while a17 had exclusively 7dtd standalone gameplay content in the form of new UI, encumbrance and weather system rework, perks, some weapons, items, all of the current quests, new Zds, etc.

 

 

1+ year dev cycle? I just love it. Really. The size of the feature list cannot compare. Sure, I'm not cool with us not getting much to do aside for more exploration, 1 more quest and the primitive weapons, but this alpha was absolutely necessary. I hope we get 3 more alphas like this one. Thumbs up on my part. 2025 for gold? Just in time for the next console!

 

 

[Khalagar]

2 hours ago, Lord Morphleyes said:

I agree but he is 9 and gets scared when he is alone.

 

Time for a baptism by fire and teach him the cruelty of adults. Soooooorry son, that's sooooo weird, your bedroll was destroyed somehow right before the horde night, oh nooooo.

 

I feel like kids now days aren't pranked enough honestly, they shut down hard the second they encounter any situation less favorable than "Completely and totally tailored to them". Gone are the days when your parents could prank you by pretending to leave you at the grocery store for ten minutes, you'd probably go to jail for that now

[Roland]

*Crosses Khalagar off the list of potential babysitters...

[Blake_]

38 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

 

Time for a baptism by fire and teach him the cruelty of adults. Soooooorry son, that's sooooo weird, your bedroll was destroyed somehow right before the horde night, oh nooooo.

 

I feel like kids now days aren't pranked enough honestly, they shut down hard the second they encounter any situation less favorable than "Completely and totally tailored to them". Gone are the days when your parents could prank you by pretending to leave you at the grocery store for ten minutes, you'd probably go to jail for that now

You call it prank, I call it harmless teaching experience. Offspring needs to understand the what ifs of life. Only through graded struggle we prosper. Always within safety and controlled environments of course. A grocery store might not be the best "teaching" area for that, lol. Maybe a sharp cliff? The middle of a rainforest? Yas, better.

[Laz Man]

2 hours ago, Khalagar said:

 

Time for a baptism by fire and teach him the cruelty of adults. Soooooorry son, that's sooooo weird, your bedroll was destroyed somehow right before the horde night, oh nooooo.

 

I feel like kids now days aren't pranked enough honestly, they shut down hard the second they encounter any situation less favorable than "Completely and totally tailored to them". Gone are the days when your parents could prank you by pretending to leave you at the grocery store for ten minutes, you'd probably go to jail for that now

 

 

[Gamida]

4 hours ago, POCKET951 said:

why not make it so molotovs can atleast start grass fires that will burn and destroy alot of it

 

You may find these short vids from 5 years ago interesting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx1XneRtctM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LugSHw_ZNPg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ag4sY2Elk4

[POCKET951]

1 hour ago, Gamida said:

 

You may find these short vids from 5 years ago interesting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx1XneRtctM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LugSHw_ZNPg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ag4sY2Elk4

well if that could be done in a mod for an ancient alpha, how much of a stretch would it be to add it as part of the core game down the line?

[Sal]

I refuse to read or follow what's new in A20. Part of the fun for me is not knowing anything and figuring it all out on my own when it drops. This is one of the things I liked about A17 after such a long gap in time.  

[Aldranon]

11 hours ago, mstdv inc said:

I would love to be able to create a 2048x2048 map entirely consisting of a city.

 

That has merit!

 

You could pack in the area with the big POIs.  Sort of a New York city test.

 

Or... Change that to 1kx1K (or smaller), then use a map loader that uses free CPU cycles to load adjacent maps.  (By using the Windows Interrupt Request Priorities (IRQ) to activate the map loader when the player is not surrounded by zombies, for example.)

A potential global map right there. 

 

You could extend that by making the users PC a Client and its only jobs are to paint the screen, collision detection and keyboard/mouse movement.  Player location is sent to the Map server (Edit every 5-10 seconds)

Then make a map server that can be the players PC, BUT could be a beefy server that  manages the small 1K map area (or 9 if the map blocks are small enough) per player. 

Other services can record the looting and damages done to the map and zombies and then would send to the map server anything that updates the maps state.

 

So to make sure everyone gets updated map information but not ALL the new, changed  map information:

1) Players current map is always updated as soon as possible (this would insure multiple people would see the same event that are in the same map in near RT)

2) To keep the map server "intelligent"  make a database with the map matrix current location being the primary key and the 8 other map locations as the data.

so on a 500 by 500 maps the primary key is the X Y coordinates.  key range 001001-500500.

 

OK that's enough, too much coffee I guess!   

 

[Burrfly]

3 hours ago, Aldranon said:

Change that to 1kx1K (or smaller)

Ok, that's too big.

We need a 16x16 map for a20 please (or smaller)

[meilodasreh]

10 hours ago, POCKET951 said:

how come TFP won't add some kind of tool/vehicle for cutting /removing grass more efficiently or harvesting crops?

 

there's a great modlet you should try to hook up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe I'm mixing up stuff, I'm not into modding...it says "available now", but also someting about A22 

Where are my pills anyway? 

 

 

27 minutes ago, Burrfly said:

We need a 16x16 map for a20 please (or smaller)

I've had bases bigger than that

[beHypE]

10 hours ago, Blake_ said:

We have already surpassed 18 and 19 combined in number of POI to come in a20.

 

a20 is similar to a17 in amount of content vs the alpha that came before. Downside (for me) is that around 30% of the richness within this tangible gameplay content comes from Twitch integration features, while a17 had exclusively 7dtd standalone gameplay content in the form of new UI, encumbrance and weather system rework, perks, some weapons, items, all of the current quests, new Zds, etc.

 

 

1+ year dev cycle? I just love it. Really. The size of the feature list cannot compare. Sure, I'm not cool with us not getting much to do aside for more exploration, 1 more quest and the primitive weapons, but this alpha was absolutely necessary. I hope we get 3 more alphas like this one. Thumbs up on my part. 2025 for gold? Just in time for the next console!

 

 

While I don't really mind the 1+ year dev cycle, I can't exactly say that the content has me absolutely stoked. Vehicle mods are a nice plus but don't add much to gameplay, RWG and other HD assets are cool and all but it's really eye candy and I don't play the game for its graphics. Pipe weapons are going to be a week 1 thing so it doesn't add to the end game experience. 

 

Happy about the biome game stages as A19 was way too linear for my taste, and I'll finally have a reason to gear up to face snow/desert and its dangers. Regarding POIs well... it's never bad to have more of them but I'd rather have more reasons to loot than more places to find the same old stuff. 

 

Will play for sure but I can't help but feel like the past 2+ years have been lacking in terms of pure content for seasoned players.