Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Roland]

29 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Hardcore survival players want everything to always be scarce, but as I understand the balancing of the Fun Pimps, the goal is to overcome scarcity at a certain point in the game.

 

QFT.

 

There is supposed to be a progression from struggling to thriving in each aspect of survival represented in the game.

[Annihilatorza]

10 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

QFT.

 

There is supposed to be a progression from struggling to thriving in each aspect of survival represented in the game.

Pretty much exactly that, not everyone wants to spend weeks grinding for every ounce of fuel or scrap of food.

 

I simply don't have the time to do so, why they give you the options, loot 50%, never respawn, no planes, feral zombies ect ect.

[bdubyah]

49 minutes ago, Annihilatorza said:

Pretty much exactly that, not everyone wants to spend weeks grinding for every ounce of fuel or scrap of food.

 

I simply don't have the time to do so, why they give you the options, loot 50%, never respawn, no planes, feral zombies ect ect.

But what does a loot option have to do with mining oil shale? Sure, 50% loot would reduce the bits of gas from pumps and stuff, but that isn't much to begin with. And I love the idea of running 50% or 75% loot, and I have in several games, but I'm not a fan of the way the game handles reduced loot.

And I never said anything about gas always being a crazy struggle. I do feel how it is now is too easy even for end game times. And sure, the beakers are RNG but for all the games I've played I have never had the issues some people have of being day 50 or 100 or whatever with not even one beaker to show for it. Maybe with reduced loot or no airdrops or not using traders it becomes an issue, but then you can't really complain.

 

1 hour ago, Roland said:

There is supposed to be a progression from struggling to thriving in each aspect of survival represented in the game.

I agree with this. Which is the point to my original post about gas. Yes, you need a beaker and a chem station, but getting those items doesn't take long enough in an average game to justify that being all it takes to have unlimited gas. And yes, I'm aware you still have to mine the oil shale and that somehow seems like a whole ordeal to some, but if you can't manage your time wisely enough to spend part of one day mining enough shale to last your whole play through, then that's on you. Vehicles in general are a bit easy mode in A20 thanks to the OP traders. Between them constantly having either the vehicle or parts themselves, the schems to make them or giving you a whole vehicle as a quest tier reward, it's easier than ever to get one and keep it fueled. I guess it's just a continuation from the last couple alphas of making the game easier in general.

[Annihilatorza]

17 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

But what does a loot option have to do with mining oil shale? Sure, 50% loot would reduce the bits of gas from pumps and stuff, but that isn't much to begin with. And I love the idea of running 50% or 75% loot, and I have in several games, but I'm not a fan of the way the game handles reduced loot.

And I never said anything about gas always being a crazy struggle. I do feel how it is now is too easy even for end game times. And sure, the beakers are RNG but for all the games I've played I have never had the issues some people have of being day 50 or 100 or whatever with not even one beaker to show for it. Maybe with reduced loot or no airdrops or not using traders it becomes an issue, but then you can't really complain.

 

I agree with this. Which is the point to my original post about gas. Yes, you need a beaker and a chem station, but getting those items doesn't take long enough in an average game to justify that being all it takes to have unlimited gas. And yes, I'm aware you still have to mine the oil shale and that somehow seems like a whole ordeal to some, but if you can't manage your time wisely enough to spend part of one day mining enough shale to last your whole play through, then that's on you. Vehicles in general are a bit easy mode in A20 thanks to the OP traders. Between them constantly having either the vehicle or parts themselves, the schems to make them or giving you a whole vehicle as a quest tier reward, it's easier than ever to get one and keep it fueled. I guess it's just a continuation from the last couple alphas of making the game easier in general.

Well this whole discussion might be a totally mute point for the following reasons.

Secret stash is gone

Traders have been rebalanced 

The whole skill tree progress is totally different now

Looting is reworked 

Vehicles have been changed

 

So my take is that until we get to play this new game, which all the changes it will be a completely new game to most of us, we will have to speculate and guess.

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

QFT.

 

There is supposed to be a progression from struggling to thriving in each aspect of survival represented in the game.

 

Personally, I prefer struggling to getting by with hard work.  With vanilla, once I reach a certain point in the game, it just seems to be too easy to survive.  No issues with ammo, no issues getting gear or anything I may need.  There are ways to artificially increase the difficulty, but I am not a big fan of bullet sponges that run faster than me (to make it more difficult).  You can even stop doing missions and just loot POIs at a certain point.  All the extra gear you find you can easily sell back to the trader to earn a ton of dukes.  At that point, continuing on is until I get bored and start over.

 

But I know that my vision of how to play is not the same that others would want, which is why I am extremely glad that this middle aged gamer can mod the game to his desires.  My current playthrough I am around Day 54 with the next horde coming up soon.  I got 0 Q6 gear as the only ones I found so far have long been used up and broken.  I am still using my minibike as I haven't found the schematic to unlock the motorcycle accessories yet.  I got enough food and drink to last me the next 3 days with a supply of about 54 murky water that I been gathering by looting any toilet or water fountain I have found while looting (and even that is being rationed between glue production, food production, and drinks).  Am I struggling?  Not at all, as I can now craft a Q5 smg and Q5 machete.  However, I am clearly not thriving as I have to work hard to replenish my ammo supplies from the last horde night and constantly having to replace broken gear......and I am finding that this has been so much fun (when you get excited finding a half damaged Q4 wrench in loot, I know I am doing it right  😉 ).

 

A21 I am anticipating and already decided to play vanilla a few times to see what the team has done.  But I know I will probably eventually modify my mod to work with A21 as my playstyle / vision is not the same as TFP.  And I am okay with that.😁

[Doomofman]

A21 isn't real, it can't hurt you

[beerfly]

13 hours ago, Doomofman said:

A21 can't hurt you

well, not yet

[Aldranon]

56 minutes ago, beerfly said:

well, not yet

 

You hear the future howls of pain and anguish too?

The best part is finding out what the howls will be about.  It's like Christmas finding out. 

[RipClaw]

15 hours ago, Doomofman said:

A21 isn't real, it can't hurt you

That depends who you are. For test players, A21 has been real for some time now.

 

[Damolann]

Test players aren't real either.

[Roland]

41 minutes ago, Damolann said:

Test players aren't real either.

I call ‘em smurfs

[Laran Mithras]

If one really wants fuel to be egregiously scarce, why not play on a no-desert map? And turn down loot to the lowest level.

I really think all the options are there for tailoring a particular type of scenario.

[unholyjoe]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

I call ‘em smurfs

you still after my nerd pole arent you....

[crazywildfire]

22 hours ago, bdubyah said:

But what does a loot option have to do with mining oil shale? Sure, 50% loot would reduce the bits of gas from pumps and stuff, but that isn't much to begin with. And I love the idea of running 50% or 75% loot, and I have in several games, but I'm not a fan of the way the game handles reduced loot.

And I never said anything about gas always being a crazy struggle. I do feel how it is now is too easy even for end game times. And sure, the beakers are RNG but for all the games I've played I have never had the issues some people have of being day 50 or 100 or whatever with not even one beaker to show for it. Maybe with reduced loot or no airdrops or not using traders it becomes an issue, but then you can't really complain.

 

I agree with this. Which is the point to my original post about gas. Yes, you need a beaker and a chem station, but getting those items doesn't take long enough in an average game to justify that being all it takes to have unlimited gas. And yes, I'm aware you still have to mine the oil shale and that somehow seems like a whole ordeal to some, but if you can't manage your time wisely enough to spend part of one day mining enough shale to last your whole play through, then that's on you. Vehicles in general are a bit easy mode in A20 thanks to the OP traders. Between them constantly having either the vehicle or parts themselves, the schems to make them or giving you a whole vehicle as a quest tier reward, it's easier than ever to get one and keep it fueled. I guess it's just a continuation from the last couple alphas of making the game easier in general.

 

I agree with what you saying about gas. But at the same time (not sayin you) but some people forget about multi-player. Not everyone on multi-player plays in the same groups. So you gotta have a good balance imo. Loot can be very thin with several people. You get on and someone already looted all the gas pumps/places for gas. So it only leaves you to go mine for oil shale. But even in that case though. Like you said you can go to one shale and mine and come out in 10 minutes with stacks. So it wouldn't hurt for that to be cut back on how much you get per swing. Doesn't have to be extream/hardcore as the way it is now is extremely easy. So even cutting back a little would just feel normal.

Edited January 26, 2023 by crazywildfire (see edit history)

[schwubdi]

I know that there are already all new ideas realized in A21, but did you ever think of sharing the incoming XP based on kills by the environment? Maybe it is possible to set up some sort of base-owner. 

 

When you share the base with 2 or more other players it would become more fair.  

 

Maybe it has been discussed in the past. ^^

[mstdv inc]

5 hours ago, Laran Mithras said:

If one really wants fuel to be egregiously scarce, why not play on a no-desert map? And turn down loot to the lowest level.

I really think all the options are there for tailoring a particular type of scenario.

I turned off the veins of oil shale through xml, increased the fuel consumption of transport by 50% and extracted gasoline only from cars.For 100 days of survival (60 minutes a day) I didn't have a fuel shortage.The number of cars that remained in the world would be enough for several survivings.This experience was interesting, but you need to look for a line after which an interesting gameplay will turn into a boring grind.

Edited January 26, 2023 by mstdv inc (see edit history)

[Gronal]

I consulted a healthcare professional today and he confirmed I am dying of impatience. The only remedy is dregs of information about A21.
It has been a problem for me in the past but my doctor said it probably flared up because of the radio silence since the holiday period. Hoping the devs just have their heads down hard at work and I might get my fix soon.

[Vintorez]

3 hours ago, schwubdi said:

I know that there are already all new ideas realized in A21, but did you ever think of sharing the incoming XP based on kills by the environment? Maybe it is possible to set up some sort of base-owner. 

 

When you share the base with 2 or more other players it would become more fair.  

 

Maybe it has been discussed in the past. ^^

Really I'd just like the share xp option to work on all gains, right now it doesn't include building or harvesting so a party that wants to stay the same will always start drifting apart.

[UnicornSkull]

If there is hunting in the game, then why not fishing? It would be possible to implement drying, smoking of fish and meat.

[Jost Amman]

49 minutes ago, UnicornSkull said:

If there is hunting in the game, then why not fishing? It would be possible to implement drying, smoking of fish and meat.

Fishing has always been controversial, because hunger is an already very easy early game problem to solve.

If you add yet another way to get food to the game, you can as well remove hunger completely, because it would become a non-issue, and as such, a grind.

 

If they'll ever add fishing, they'll probably have to find a way to rebalance ALL food in the game, so that every way to get food stays relevant.

At least, that's my understanding of why fishing has not been a thing 'till now. Maybe I'm wrong.

[RipClaw]

3 hours ago, UnicornSkull said:

If there is hunting in the game, then why not fishing? It would be possible to implement drying, smoking of fish and meat.

Basically a nice idea but depending on how it would be implemented, it would take quite a lot of development time.

 

If it were like in Raft then you just hold the fishing rod into the water and a fish spawns in the inventory. If it were like in "The Infected", you would have to implement fish swimming in the water and the player would hunt them with a spear. That would probably be very complex to implement.

 

I don't think it would ever be implemented in Vanilla but for a mod an implementation similar to Raft might be possible.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Fishing has always been controversial, because hunger is an already very easy early game problem to solve.

If you add yet another way to get food to the game, you can as well remove hunger completely, because it would become a non-issue, and as such, a grind.

 

If they'll ever add fishing, they'll probably have to find a way to rebalance ALL food in the game, so that every way to get food stays relevant.

At least, that's my understanding of why fishing has not been a thing 'till now. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

I don't think food balance would be a problem. In the same time that you hunt for meat walking around you could consume your time with fishing. If it was fishing with a spear you would also waste some stamina. Same effort in time and stamina, same random risk to even find anything to hunt or fish at all. And the result would be 5 meat as well if they want to keep the recipes simple.

 

[Callum123456789]

yeah i gotta agree with food being very easy to deal with in a20 at least however i spec into rule 1 cardio and never wear armour early game so i barely burn stamina furthermore i dont burn much food at all and since i loot a lot i have plenty and if i dont i just go to the snow biome AKA the meat farm.

[Laran Mithras]

16 hours ago, mstdv inc said:

I turned off the veins of oil shale through xml, increased the fuel consumption of transport by 50% and extracted gasoline only from cars.For 100 days of survival (60 minutes a day) I didn't have a fuel shortage.The number of cars that remained in the world would be enough for several survivings.This experience was interesting, but you need to look for a line after which an interesting gameplay will turn into a boring grind.

I have considered a playthrough like this.

At how many points in Salvage Operations do you find that gasoline becomes trivial?

[mstdv inc]

1 hour ago, Laran Mithras said:

I have considered a playthrough like this.

At how many points in Salvage Operations do you find that gasoline becomes trivial?

I prefer to get a bike as soon as possible, then a motorcycle and then a 4x4. Long before I got a motorcycle, I found my first wrench.Since then, I have periodically disassembled cars.Brass and gasoline were sent "to the warehouse" mechanical parts and electrics, and so on, I sold.By the time I got a motorcycle, I had more than 30,000 gasoline.In order to cover the cost of gasoline on a motorcycle, I had to disassemble cars once a game week for 15-20 minutes.Modification to reduce fuel consumption made life easier.Until the end of my survival, I did not use an auger and a chainsaw.When I started using 4x4, even with the modification, gasoline went much faster, but it still wasn't a big problem.

Edited January 27, 2023 by mstdv inc (see edit history)