WarWren Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 How bandits deal with traps will bring a new dynamic the the base. I can see them firing on the more obvious traps and players setting hidden traps like collapsing floors etc. I wonder too will they attempt to cut power and attack vehicles should they find no entry. Hitting a generator or interrupting an electrical circuit could cause problems particularly for players with electric doors and traps. The good thing aboutt bandits is there won't need to be great numbers of them to bring spice to the game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevergrey Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, faatal said: Nav is 6k. Thanks for the info. Then I don't need to think about creating very large maps and probably struggle with memory issues while generating them. Navezgane is big enough for me. 6K maps shouldn't be a problem with 24 GB RAM. I can also live without Dynamic Mesh. Please continue your great work. Thanks for the time and effort you put into this game. I like fighting zombies, surviving, crafting, building, and random generated worlds in computer games. 7 Days To Die combines all this features in one package. I'm eager to see how this masterpiece continues evolving. Edited March 29, 2022 by Nevergrey (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintorez Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) Might be interesting if bandits primarily dropped weapon and armor parts, feels like equipment crafting mostly just acts as RNG protection to at least get quality 5 gear once you have the rank to do so and haven't found a quality 6 yet, and is wasteful to use parts for anything less. Having a somewhat targetable source could help adjust how they're used. Edited March 29, 2022 by Vintorez (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 I'm curious what the bandit to zombie to player relationship will be like. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyth Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 On 3/27/2022 at 6:19 PM, Roland said: "Modders have already gotten pretty ambitious with the bandits that we already had from earlier versions so I am confident that at whatever point TFP decides to stop and say "good enough" where bandits are concerned, the community will be sure to take it farther. That is exactly the allure of mods-- that you can play a game that is beyond the scope of what the developers chose the default game to be." I hope the community keeps its expectations about TFP vanilla bandit functionality at a reasonable level. Bandits are not "easy" to develop in the context of this game. Over the past several alphas our NPC team has put many hundreds, if not thousands of development hours into extending the existing NPC and zombie code, leveraging already built systems like factions, buffs, cvars etc. We extended the EAI "AI" used by zombies, but found that while efficient, was limited in how much we could extend it for humanlike behavior without issues. This forced us to extend some abandoned UAI code that permitted NPCs to make real-time (several times per second) choices of behavior based on the current situation. This works well, but there is a performance hit, and I expect TFP to focus on relatively "dumb" AI bandits based on EAI at first so there isn't a major performance impact on the game when more than a dozen operate in an area. Our NPC modding team will reuse whatever TFP bandit code base they provide in A21, and likely we will continue to focus on smarter versions using UAI. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drinka1ity Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) Will TFP be putting any work in A21 to allow map makers to have their own pois draw on first map draw in RWG? Older tools like Nitrogen & KingGen were able to do this with relative ease and while A20 map maker was a vast improvement over previous versions, it still didnt give the world makers the depth that they require in RWG to allow server managers to reset a custom prefab after a team has done a hordenight on your pride and joy and left it as rubble lol. Edited March 30, 2022 by Drinka1ity (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Huh? Just put the correct sized pois in the poi folder or subfolder or mod folder and it'll automatically pick them up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt115 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Quick question : new updated for a20 is still in development? Because it is rly quiet about A21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevergrey Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Matt115 said: Quick question : new updated for a20 is still in development? Because it is rly quiet about A21 I'd like to know that too. Hated wrote: "A20.4 with fixes can be expected on EXP later this week or early next week." That was on February 22... Edited March 31, 2022 by Nevergrey (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt115 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, Nevergrey said: I'd like to know that too. Hated wrote: "A20.4 with fixes can be expected on EXP later this week or early next week." That was on February 22... Yeah sooo i hope we will get answer soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faatal Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 11 hours ago, xyth said: I hope the community keeps its expectations about TFP vanilla bandit functionality at a reasonable level. Bandits are not "easy" to develop in the context of this game. Over the past several alphas our NPC team has put many hundreds, if not thousands of development hours into extending the existing NPC and zombie code, leveraging already built systems like factions, buffs, cvars etc. We extended the EAI "AI" used by zombies, but found that while efficient, was limited in how much we could extend it for humanlike behavior without issues. This forced us to extend some abandoned UAI code that permitted NPCs to make real-time (several times per second) choices of behavior based on the current situation. This works well, but there is a performance hit, and I expect TFP to focus on relatively "dumb" AI bandits based on EAI at first so there isn't a major performance impact on the game when more than a dozen operate in an area. Our NPC modding team will reuse whatever TFP bandit code base they provide in A21, and likely we will continue to focus on smarter versions using UAI. EAI has been optimized over the years I've been working on it and UAI being dead, I have not touched it. I do plan to remove it at some point, but hopefully the bandit framework will be adequate to extend from for modders. Good bandit performance and numbers is a goal, so they will run adequately on all systems. 58 minutes ago, Nevergrey said: I'd like to know that too. Hated wrote: "A20.4 with fixes can be expected on EXP later this week or early next week." That was on February 22... It is still in the works. There were some issues with platform changes and then there was a bad merge of some of my changes that they backed out and may end up having to hand merge. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevergrey Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, faatal said: It is still in the works. There were some issues with platform changes and then there was a bad merge of some of my changes that they backed out and may end up having to hand merge. Thanks for keeping us up to date, faatal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake_ Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, faatal said: There were some issues with platform changes and then there was a bad merge of some of my changes that they backed out and may end up having to hand merge. That right there and other issues born from simple overlooks are the biggest downsides to having patches as opposed to just bringing on the beefy alpha . That being said, I like the patches. It keeps the player engaged while waiting for a21. Bandits. Finally. More than 4 years since those swearing lines were recorded, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Man Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 On 3/29/2022 at 9:10 AM, Guppycur said: I'm curious what the bandit to zombie to player relationship will be like. An interesting love triangle I bet...😅 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POCKET951 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 5 hours ago, Laz Man said: An interesting love triangle I bet...😅 why can't it be a love Tetrohedron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survager Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, xyth said: We extended the EAI "AI" used by zombies What is EAI and UAI? Edited March 31, 2022 by Survager (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khzmusik Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Survager said: What is EAI and UAI? Entity AI (used for zombies now) and Utility AI (not used for years but still in the code). Utility AI is not a TFP invention, you can Google it if you want the technical details. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt115 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 13 hours ago, faatal said: EAI has been optimized over the years I've been working on it and UAI being dead, I have not touched it. I do plan to remove it at some point, but hopefully the bandit framework will be adequate to extend from for modders. Good bandit performance and numbers is a goal, so they will run adequately on all systems. It is still in the works. There were some issues with platform changes and then there was a bad merge of some of my changes that they backed out and may end up having to hand merge. What do you mean by "numbers" here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meilodasreh Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Matt115 said: What do you mean by "numbers" here? Possibly he means...well...numbers. You know, stuff like "1", "5", or even "12" just to give a few easy examples. Commonly used to specify a certain amount of things. In this context: how many bandits can be there simultaneously, without too heavy performance impact. ...oh, now I get it! You already knew that, and your real, indirectly asked question was: how many bandits can be there simultaneously, without too heavy performance impact? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt115 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, meilodasreh said: Possibly he means...well...numbers. You know, stuff like "1", "5", or even "12" just to give a few easy examples. Commonly used to specify a certain amount of things. In this context: how many bandits can be there simultaneously, without too heavy performance impact. ...oh, now I get it! You already knew that, and your real, indirectly asked question was: how many bandits can be there simultaneously, without too heavy performance impact? ... no i mean - how many bandits should be in POI, how many "bandit" POI per 1 km^2, how many bandits wandering outside is good enough for him - because we know that max number of "enemy" is 64 right? so 1 bandit = 63 zombies, 2 bandits = 62 zombies etc So my question mean more :' how much bandits will be ratio to zombie number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meilodasreh Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Matt115 said: So my question mean more :' how much bandits will be ratio to zombie number Ok I see. I would guess you cannot count it like that, plus 1 bandit means minus one zombie. bandit AI will probably be more complex, with bigger performance hit. But that's all still in the early works, so I think nobody can tell right now about definite numbers. ...I still stay with 12 😃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt115 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 16 minutes ago, meilodasreh said: Ok I see. I would guess you cannot count it like that, plus 1 bandit means minus one zombie. bandit AI will probably be more complex, with bigger performance hit. But that's all still in the early works, so I think nobody can tell right now about definite numbers. ...I still stay with 12 😃 Well] it was simplify because add bandit they have to reduce number of zombie so - i hope bandit AI will be just a little bit diffrent that zombie and it will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Matt115 said: Well] it was simplify because add bandit they have to reduce number of zombie so - i hope bandit AI will be just a little bit diffrent that zombie and it will be fine. Yes and no. When a bandit gets spawned it reduces the amount of zombies by at least 1, but when no bandit is around you still have the full zombie count available. Wasn't it mentioned by someone from TFP already that bandits will be used sparringly (or am I imagining this) ? Don't expect simply 10 or 20% of environmental zombies just being substituted by bandits. If TFP did this they would severely lessen the impact of the bandits. Edited March 31, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jost Amman Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 I can already imagine a "war of spawns" between bandits and zombies... A bandit is attacking, but, suddenly, a zombie spawns, and the bandit magically disappears into oblivion! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevergrey Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, meganoth said: Yes and no. When a bandit gets spawned it reduces the amount of zombies by at least 1, but when no bandit is around you still have the full zombie count available. And if 1 bandit dies, 1 Zombie spawns? Or spawns another bandit then? 🤔 New gaming mode ... AI spawn race. 🙂 Edited March 31, 2022 by Nevergrey (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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