Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Morloc]

10 hours ago, Guppycur said:

I personally feel the graphics have gotten in the way of the great potential of the game.  Sacrifices have been made in the name of graphics

 

What's the tradeoff?

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

[meilodasreh]

10 hours ago, Fanatical_Meat said:

Come on it looks totally the same

Yep as I said, same thing just one shot taken using slightly lower resolution 😄

 

On a serious sidenote,

of course this comparison is not really fair, cause 7D2D zombies are not voxel blocks but real 3D HD modelling stuff.

 

But also the blocks in the background, especially the texturing is of course "zoom to the moon" better in 7D2D.

 

...wait, damn we're still at this topic?

@Roland fast, a puzzle to distract us😉

 

[meilodasreh]

11 hours ago, Guppycur said:

I'd personally rather a better game than better graphics.  

Yep, me too.

And I guess a good amount of people around here who have been following the development of this game also know about said technical limitations of the voxel engine with current hardware, and so don't really complain.

But as Roland said there might also be a good amount of players (he even called that group "the typical player" which I wouldn't support without reserve),

who don't think said way "rather a better game than better graphics" but more like "game gets better by/with better graphics"

Edited January 3, 2023 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[zztong]

12 hours ago, Guppycur said:

I personally feel the graphics have gotten in the way of the great potential of the game.  Sacrifices have been made in the name of graphics, and I'd personally rather a better game than better graphics.  

 

I'm of a similar mind. I don't need awesome graphics. I need acceptable graphics and good game play. I'm more likely to turn down graphics settings. I say "rock on" to developers making conscious decisions that balance artistic style with technology, features and performance. That's engineering.

 

I think 7D2D, Empyrion, Space Engineers, and Fallout 4 are all great. For that matter, I love Minecraft and RimWorld and they're not graphical powerhouses.

[saoron666]

21 hours ago, Roland said:

BTW, when the developers first began, their goal was to create a full voxel world with the graphical equivalency of Quake because that was what they felt was possible. That they were able to improve that goal to a full voxel world with the graphical equivalency of Skyrim is amazing. One might make that second comparison out of derision but I think the devs would take it as high praise and those in the industry would be similarly impressed. 

As I said before, from what I’ve seen and read on forums with 2000 hours gameplay now , people want new features, new environment, new experience.. just like any other game out there with expansion to give that new feeling.

not the same game for past 10 years but better graphics ..

i mean I love amazing graphics, and my pc can take wtv you feed it, but need the features to go with it as well ..need some major improvement towards the things to do and achieve in the game.

[JCrook1028]

On 1/2/2023 at 10:14 AM, meilodasreh said:

but these two pictures you selected as proof actually look as they might be from the same alpha,

Are you blind? Do you not see the huge 1 meter blocks in the old version?

[retrogamingdev]

My two cents on graphics as it relates to 7Days. I think it looks pretty good overall.

 

But, if I started playing, had no concept of a voxel engine or what that meant for performance, I'd think the game look fairly mediocre, but not terrible. Maybe a high C, low B for a grade. Overall, the graphics look maybe a generation or two behind other big name players. 

 

If I account for the voxel engine, though - I give the game a high B. There is room for improvement - though I think it is less to do with an overall upgrade to the engine. There is some inconsistencies in textures/object models that detracts from things for me. Cleaning that up would drastically help. I also feel like some areas of the game need more variety since we see the stuff so much. Junker cars for example - need more variety of those. And if you play multiplayer, you know the player models and animations are pretty bad and break immersion. Cleaning those up would help a lot for the visual experience when playing with others. 

 

And a big wishlist thing for me as it relates to visuals is some sort of system to randomize the zombies 'look' a bit. Like, changing skin textures, clothing worn,  body damage, etc. So, it is still the same base zombie, but chances are if you see 3 of the same ones at the same time - they will look different from each other. 

 

Ultimately, though, if I had to chose one thing for you to work on - I'd say keep visual as the are and start building in more content, story, quests, factions, etc. That is what is missing most for me at this time. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by retrogamingdev (see edit history)

[Riamus]

Just to add to what has already been commented on... Graphics work is being done (usually) by different people than those working on mechanics and gameplay and other kinds of content like story.  So for the most part, you aren't trading mechanics and features for improved graphics. 

 

However, there is still a trade-off in this game.  Because of the art assets being added, most of the POI are also getting updated with the new assets.  I would assume this is getting done by the same people who make new POI.  So time spent updating the old POI is taken from creating new POI.  How much this affects things, I don't know, but we probably end up with at least a few less new POI because of the new art assets.  Thankfully, there are good POI designers outside of TFP that give us additional POI to use.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[mstdv inc]

For me, there is a certain level of graphics and if the graphics in the game are below this level, I will not be able to play no matter how cool the gameplay would be.I tried to play all alpha versions starting from 10 and to be honest, starting from A13 it has already become playable.But I do not know how quickly such graphics would get bored, after all, before A19, the game was too colorless and gray.Although someone will call it a plus to the atmosphere.If the A19 graphics upgrade hadn't come out, the A18 graphics would have been enough for me even then, the game looked normal considering its voxel basis.All other games look much worse or have specific graphics that don't everyone will like it.I haven't been able to play minecraft or a teardown.It just hurts my eyes to look at it.But still A19 came out and after that I couldn't play A18 anymore.It seemed too outdated.A20 is also a big graphics upgrade, but for me this is the point after which the game became more 'commercial' and less cozy.With the release of A20 for me, the game lost the atmosphere of a "paradise of rednecks" and became something like a "concrete jungle".Maybe I should only play with small towns, but then I won't see T4 and T5 buildings.Because of this, I'm a little wary of future updates.But if we discard my personal feelings of course, the game is only getting better, and as someone correctly noticed, "alpha" is more for reinsurance, the game has long been a full-fledged playable product and thousands of hours that players have spent in it confirm this.

If we talk about the graph as a whole.There is such a thing as the integrity of graphics when looking at the scene you see that all the elements correspond to each other there is nothing superfluous very soapy or highly detailed there is nothing very bright and just superfluous.I'm unlikely to be able to play games in the first half of the 90s, but since 97-98, in my opinion, the graphics have reached the level where you can just play it without being afraid that your eyes will leak out after half an hour.

And of course, do not forget that how many people there are so many opinions and everyone can't like one thing.Developers understand this and are looking for a middle ground.Therefore, yes, I agree that it was possible to develop some gameplay moments more instead of improving graphics, but on the other hand, after A19, I can no longer play the old alphas.Balance, we need balance.

Edited January 3, 2023 by mstdv inc (see edit history)

[Blake_]

I am of the same mind as @retrogamingdev : If the graphic design was less of a "build on top" and more of a solid base of well performing assets from the get go, all with the same tunneable parameters like coherent LOD, reflections, post processing behaviour, organized shader database that doesn't take huge loads of time to tweak or change by the devs, then the game would perform better today even with the UNITY limitations. Sure, they are doing it now, and that is understandable, they were very few up until recently and they are not Gods, but all in all the result is coming along despite the problems I mentioned (some of them, like LOD or things like shader tunning have a pretty huge impact still).

 

Shaders can do anything to a texture, but the can also break any game in terms of fps and stability if treated poorly. This game might actually need an engine of its own, because no matter how UNREAL they make games in the future, the only engines that can fully use crazy stuff like 128 cores to the fullest (limit of Windows OS)  are those specifically created to do so, like for example the custom engine for Mount and Blade: Bannerlord (allows for a heavy CPU usage, close to 85% fully parallel task manager, which Unity cannot achieve). That is future proofing the game if done with a true voxel engine. It's ok they went with the less "headachy" way and chose Unity though, because it seems to be doing ok.

 

Let's just hope we get enough content in the end. It all comes down to the ridiculous "we are out of time" and how short the community can pressure the ETA of 7dtd to be. And let's not forget that a new mistak... console deal might happen AGAIN before gold release, or worse, might be forced to become gold before it's ready. That's what the official information led me to believe (that we are 1 year from gold, lol. Try 3 years). 

 

To The Fun Pimps I say: Genres aside, Kenshi is a squad based rpg, fully 3d world with endless posibilities. It took 13-15 years to make. It's perfect now. It has flaws, but does not lack in the original vision, nor in variety of zds... I mean content? My apologies. Lol. I really mean to say that this game needs to go on. And be finished well. Not with 15 crappy zds and 4 thugs with the same face, but with a solid variety both in AI life and emergent gameplay. That is future proofing. And that is -I do know that- the original vision, not the "weeell if we do not have time then instead of increasing the price or start with bonus alpha dlcs, let's do crippling console deals with evil corporations so we can keep going on", or something crazy like that. 

 

Money cannot flow indefinitely, but it will if you let us. The community is solid. Like a big piece of nutricious dun g.

 

 

[Maxley]

graphically the biggest issue for me would be all the old mismatched looking tree models and other foliage. I really like the newer snow pine models though and I hope they can redo all the other trees in this style.

[ltbrunt]

One thing that would be cool if there were dense forest area with many different trees, bushes, plants, vines. You would need to use a tool to cut through this thick forest.

 

Since this game is growing bigger I would like to see other mutant type creatures in the world. I would like a nightmare city where monsters and robotic creatures reside. These nightmare areas would require you to be at a high level to even survive. Why not have spider like creatures that crawl on ceilers that make nest underground that can randomly generate somewhere else when the game reboots. Mutant cave trolls. Weird flying creatures that can suck you up and kill you instantly making you terrified of moving outside. There flying creatures shadows should invoke terror. make is so flying creatures can disappear behind clouds. Have certain bandit groups try to capture you and if they do force you to go on to most deadly missions. I think 7 days to die has potential to be the one game to rule them all. 

[faatal]

On 12/30/2022 at 10:24 AM, Roland said:

Well, to be fair, there was a multi-year gap between when smell was cut and feral sense was added. The one isn’t really a direct replacement for the other. They decided they didn’t want smell and cut it and did not replace it with anything. Years later they added feral sense which has some similarities and is as close to what smell did as we are likely to get but it isn’t really intended by the devs as a replacement. The devs aren’t necessarily trying to find a replacement. They simply cut a feature they decided they didn’t want for their game. 

Feral sense is an extension of a feature. Seeing and hearing. No smelling involved.

[mstdv inc]

13 minutes ago, faatal said:

Feral sense is an extension of a feature. Seeing and hearing. No smelling involved.

1. Do our zombies and animals even have vision in the form in which we understand it?Or is it still a reaction to sound and orientation on the heat map?That is, do they have a viewing angle and a range of visibility?
2. From the point of view of the code, isn't the smell and the heat map the same thing?

[Callum123456789]

do we know if new trader VO is confirmed? havent heard much talk on that.

[DanLW]

Timeline is "when it's done".  I'm fine with that.  Plenty of other games in the meantime.  I picked up Skyrim SE for $10 during the sale and am re-discovering the game.  Got other games in the queue and plenty of IRL projects.  When 21 drops, it will be a pleasant surprise.

 

Graphically, Skyrim SE is definitely better.  But graphics aren't everything.  The enduring popularity of Minecraft proves this.  My current Skyrim playthrough is my 2nd playthrough.  (First playthrough was way back when it first came out).  With 7DTD, if a "playthrough" is considered day 100-ish, I've lost count of playthroughs.

[mstdv inc]

1 hour ago, Callum123456789 said:

do we know if new trader VO is confirmed? havent heard much talk on that.

We had 5 biomes and 5 traders.One per biome.One biome was taken away from us and we had 5 traders for 4 biomes.It would be strange to add more traders.🤨

[faatal]

2 hours ago, mstdv inc said:

1. Do our zombies and animals even have vision in the form in which we understand it?Or is it still a reaction to sound and orientation on the heat map?That is, do they have a viewing angle and a range of visibility?
2. From the point of view of the code, isn't the smell and the heat map the same thing?

1 Yes, they have a view angle, distance and it uses ray casts to check for obstacles.

2 Smell is different code, that looked at distance and inventory items. It is disabled, but some of the code is still in there. Heat map is different as it tracks general activity in an area and then spawns a scout/screamer.

Edited January 4, 2023 by faatal (see edit history)

[bdubyah]

19 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

We had 5 biomes and 5 traders.One per biome.One biome was taken away from us and we had 5 traders for 4 biomes.It would be strange to add more traders.🤨

Pretty sure he meant new voice over lines for the current traders. Not entirely new traders. 

[mstdv inc]

37 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

Pretty sure he meant new voice over lines for the current traders. Not entirely new traders.

My inattention.

[wolfbain5]

have we broken the record for longest alpha yet?

[zookeeper]

5 hours ago, Callum123456789 said:

do we know if new trader VO is confirmed? havent heard much talk on that.

Played 2day, didnt see it.

[Survager]

4 hours ago, faatal said:

2 Smell is different code, that looked at distance and inventory items. It is disabled, but some of the code is still in there. Heat map is different as it tracks general activity in an area and then spawns a scout/screamer.

 

Why not make the meat in the inventory "heat up the map", just like destroying iron blocks, for example? )
Can this be done in XML?

[Prydonian]

Gah, I took a break for 20 pages and I was really hoping I’d come back to A21 news!  LOL.

[Doomofman]

There is no A21