Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, Scyris said:

Few things I feel need changing from experimental: Stealth perks at this point might as well be removed with almost every single room in a poi basically being a ambush with zombies in closets, cielings coming out/dropping down, they aggro no matter how quiet you are, completly negating anything spent in stealth, its stupid, as stealth already takes the longest to clear poi's, its bad enough how every damn zombie is always hiding behind a object so you can never get a clear shot, its just stupid that the poi's are like this now, if you plan to stay like this you might as well just remove the stealth perks so people stop wasting points in perks that don't even do anything useful anymore due to the poi design.

 

Noticed this as well, there are far less opportunities for stealth kills in POIs, but I have feral sense on in my SP game and I thought this was the reason. Do you have feral sense on?

 

[MechanicalLens]

Has anyone here yet looted the absolute travesty that is the new Crack-A-Book skyscraper? 😛 Awesome POI... in terms of challenge and looks. Loot? Not so much...

[Doomofman]

Is it just me or would it be better if the search term reset when you leave the Shape menu or if we had a button to clear the search? It's annoying when you need to switch back to all the blocks to have to click into the search box and delete the text

[fragtzack]

5 hours ago, Aldranon said:

 

I scrap almost everything from POI's (Not Radiators guns, mods, food or ammo), at my base I can remake anything I need.  Radiators are the main reason I clear POIs now!

 

One small benefit of not going all out with mostly weapons perks is that flexibility.  I can only make level 3 weapons so far however.

Why are radiators so important?

[icehot]

5 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Has anyone here yet looted the absolute travesty that is the new Crack-A-Book skyscraper? 😛 Awesome POI... in terms of challenge and looks. Loot? Not so much...

 

oh really, i've just gotten to the tier 5 quests, but if the loot is crap, I may stick to T4

Just now, fragtzack said:

Why are radiators so important?

good source of brass

[MechanicalLens]

Just now, icehot said:

 

oh really, i've just gotten to the tier 5 quests, but if the loot is crap, I may stick to T4

 

From what I've heard, there's only a tiny handful of book-related loots in the POI now and it's super challenging so... Up to you if you want to loot it or not.

[POCKET951]

22 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Has anyone here yet looted the absolute travesty that is the new Crack-A-Book skyscraper? 😛 Awesome POI... in terms of challenge and looks. Loot? Not so much...

In general, everyone who has done the crack-a -book Skyscraper Poi has said it has been  very lacking in loot as a Tier 5 Poi.

is this something that can be looked at and balanced in A20 experimental if there is enough feedback/data on it?

[MisutoM]

Updated crack a book looks awesome, and the idea to make it be basically just 3 rooms of huge horde like fights is really interesting. But yeah, the loot is abysmal. So few book shelves or so few crack a book boxes which is the main reason to do a tier 5 crack a book. It feels like a huge waste of time. Why not just do any of the tier 2 or 3 crack a books that have 5% of the zombies and 3x as many book shelves? Seems like a huge oversight. Would it be possible to add like... a lot more book shelves and crates?

 

Anyone bored enough to go compare the total shelves + crates in the smaller crack a books to the new HQ so we can get some hard numbers on how much worse the new one is?

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, fragtzack said:

Why are radiators so important?

They dissipate heat. Did you know that your car's engine would never be able to run for long without a radiator?

Radiators are fantastic! 

 

On a more serious note... with all the ammo we can find in A20 I don't even feel the need to craft it anymore. 

[Laz Man]

2 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

So I just accepted the traps bundle for T1 quest completion in a creative test world and they are... really quite very horrible? 5 wooden spikes, 5 barbed wire fences, and 15 landmines? That almost feels like a trap, pun not intended. I was expecting a dart trap and/or a blade trap and/or electric fences but...

 

Constructive feedback time: Please TFP, please make this bundle type worth its weight, because currently... it's very bad. haha

 

Blade trap from a "T1" bundle?  Seems OP to me?

2 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

Has anyone here yet looted the absolute travesty that is the new Crack-A-Book skyscraper? 😛 Awesome POI... in terms of challenge and looks. Loot? Not so much...

 

Compared to the old one? Probably.  Was there something loot specific you feel needs a buff?  Keep in mind, the new version is also alot faster to clear.

[SeregaMP]

Hello, I have a question. Why is the car sound disappearing in the passenger seat? This problem is already 2 years old !!

[jorbascrumps]

32 minutes ago, SeregaMP said:

Hello, I have a question. Why is the car sound disappearing in the passenger seat? This problem is already 2 years old !!

 

I'm sure they'll get to it eventually. It's a pretty non-critical bug.

[Kosmic Kerman]

2 hours ago, Doomofman said:

Is it just me or would it be better if the search term reset when you leave the Shape menu or if we had a button to clear the search? It's annoying when you need to switch back to all the blocks to have to click into the search box and delete the text

Definitely agree. It would be nice to have a reset button or some other "clickable" functionality to clear the text in search boxes for both shapes and crafting. It gets old quick having to select the text and then reach for the delete key.

[jorbascrumps]

7 minutes ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

Definitely agree. It would be nice to have a reset button or some other "clickable" functionality to clear the text in search boxes for both shapes and crafting. It gets old quick having to select the text and then reach for the delete key.

 

Yea, not having to re-search for the shape you want is handy - when you actually want it. Having a clear button would be a nice QoL feature.

[Gamida]

3 hours ago, Doomofman said:

Is it just me or would it be better if the search term reset when you leave the Shape menu or if we had a button to clear the search? It's annoying when you need to switch back to all the blocks to have to click into the search box and delete the text

Speaking of the shape menu...I noticed there is enough space down bottom for one more tab. I would love if they had a favorite tab down there. With so many choices now it would be nice if we could favorite blocks we use often and have all of them in one spot like we do when we favorite items in crafting menu.

[meilodasreh]

17 hours ago, bachgaman said:

By the way, did you know that in this position they can hit through a wall one block thick?

and vice versa too. Had a bunch of em in some sort of trailer, trying to break the door to get to me, and was able to knock one or two out whilst clipping their arms through the block above/next to the door (they sort of piled up there while attacking)

1 minute ago, Gamida said:

Speaking of the shape menu...I noticed there is enough space down bottom for one more tab. I would love if they had a favorite tab down there. With so many choices now it would be nice if we could favorite blocks we use often and have all of them in one spot like we do when we favorite items in crafting menu.

Some "last used" or "favorite" tab would be cool, I support that idea.

Stuff like in all common mobile phone messenger app emoji menu.

[meilodasreh]

1 hour ago, SeregaMP said:

Hello, I have a question. Why is the car sound disappearing in the passenger seat? This problem is already 2 years old !!

Didn't they introduce passender seats just now with A20? So if you complain it's 2 years old then you might complain to the developer of the mod you hooked up?

 

Well I might be wrong cause I built a 4x4 just once (in A17?), discarded it immediately (too slow and likely to get stuck) and since then stayed with the motorcycle.

If so,

the issue isn't on the list of known issues (though it might be connected to the stuff that's already there...there are lots of "sound breaks when..." thingys)

Known issues list for A20:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ctmU1eMhVZYoUXCZtFijnbboLQ2r8FIj_D-Ui6b6YHU/edit#gid=0

 

So you might want to give a full bugreport?

 

[Burrfly]

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

On a more serious note... with all the ammo we can find in A20 I don't even feel the need to craft it anymore. 

Same, which is sad. Too much ammo in loot and too much ammo we get from trader rewards. Throwing a pipe bomb isn't special anymore compared to a16 or a17 as you would get 20 (!), now still 10 from just doing a simple tier 1 quest. From clearing a simple POI with say 10 zombies (which may already have ammo in the loot already, or zombies dropping loot bags with a lot of ammo), you can still get 100 9mm rounds from the trader from such a simple quest.

 

Am gonna make a mod again just like I made for alpha 19 that'll drastically lower ammo you'll receive from traders. In a19 divided by 5 (200 9mm --> 40 9mm and 20 pipe bombs --> 4 pipe bombs), but now still divided by 2.5 (as the rewards are already halved).

 

Also lowering the chance of zombies dropping loot bags and the amount of ammo in these loot bags. I can't just set Loot Abundance to 50% to lower loot as the food/medical items are balanced at 100% Loot Abundance now.

 

I sounded a little negative right here, but this is my ONLY real complaint / feature I wish was changed & balanced for everyone for a20. Love the rest of it, even the farm changes

[meilodasreh]

3 minutes ago, Burrfly said:

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

On a more serious note... with all the ammo we can find in A20 I don't even feel the need to craft it anymore. 

Same, which is sad.

madmole stated that ammo is more likely to find at first, and then becomes more scarce later (to like "simulate" it's being used up by other survivors).

I think it's a cool idea, it's just too high amounts you have available at first.

Well I don't live in the US of A, so I can't tell for sure if it's common for everybody to have their desks, nightstands, and even garbage bags in the barn full of it.

But from what I can gather from youtube, it seems legit 😂

[Aldranon]

4 hours ago, fragtzack said:

Why are radiators so important?

Edit: (You have to use a wrench to get the radiator then melt it in the forge)

 

I can make as much ammo as I have brass.   I now carry 3 full stacks of 7.62 and 1 full stack of 9mm when I do the tier 4's or go random exploring.  Feeds my 2 MG's, hunting rife and 9mm pistol.

I also have a compound x-bow that shoots stone bolts that can one shot some stronger zombies!  Free ammo!

 

My build is made for me to not die, as I think we all know many ambush moments in some POI's

 

[dcsobral]

15 hours ago, Star69 said:

I've never gotten acid from wrenching them, only iron, but the gas is an odd thing. I don't have any points in salvage so is that why I haven't gotten acid? This would be a game changer to get acid from them since they are now much harder to find.

You need to find a specific magazine to be able to get acid by wrenching them.

[Matt115]

57 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

Didn't they introduce passender seats just now with A20? So if you complain it's 2 years old then you might complain to the developer of the mod you hooked up?

 

Well I might be wrong cause I built a 4x4 just once (in A17?), discarded it immediately (too slow and likely to get stuck) and since then stayed with the motorcycle.

If so,

the issue isn't on the list of known issues (though it might be connected to the stuff that's already there...there are lots of "sound breaks when..." thingys)

Known issues list for A20:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ctmU1eMhVZYoUXCZtFijnbboLQ2r8FIj_D-Ui6b6YHU/edit#gid=0

 

So you might want to give a full bugreport?

 

Honestly number of bugs is not so big. This is quiet  impressive

 

[dcsobral]

23 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

So all the fancy stuff they place within their stronghold is just garbage, meant to impress the newly arrived survivor? That would fit for Rekt, but for lovely Jen? 

😀

What do you think about this:

Traders have functioning workstations, but you're not allowed to use these workstations at first.

Maybe the workstations that are functioning are in a locked room, and you get access when you have done lets say 10 or 20 quests for that trader (number could vary with difficulty level). Or they unlock with tier 3/4/5 quest level.

I think this would fit more into the "story" that you have to gain some level of "trust" or whatever, you know they wouldn't allow any new stranger, but later...

 

...except for Rekt, he should permanently deny them to you 😆

 

So this would bypass the bypass progression problem, and even add to "logic" (I mean traders are the most developed guys in the game with some kind of life standard. Them not having workstations running seems weird to me.

This would be interesting. What if you got to choose one workstation to unlock as a tier completion reward? And to spice things up, have grill and cooking pot locked in the campfire (or a campfire-like workstation that does not need them) and have that also be one of the unlockable stations. And to reduce the op-ness of it, make it so you have to pay for every hour of use on top of that. I'd love such a system.

[Falcon197]

So for the new building system, I originally thought the reduced number of mats would be a bad thing and might compromise some of my building designs due to the absence of rcon.  This wound up not being the case for the final product (i.e. the A20 version of structures I built in A19 are just as hardened), so I happily digress my concerns there.  

 

The new building process, however, is something I have more feedback on.  I'll front-load by saying I've been hardcore base building since A11 and have a strong grasp of designing things in the game and managing the material logistics for my group when we get rolling:

 

First the good.  Overall, the construction process feels faster.  Being able to throw down finished concrete blocks without waiting for wet crete to dry or having to wait a second round for rcon is a big plus.  The absence of rcon also cuts the material cost of advanced builds in half, and the many MANY new shapes enhance the complexity and quality on structures - and made it possible for me to do stuff I couldn't in A19 or before.  Kudos all round here.

 

Now the bad.  While having all the new shapes available as frames is nice, the process of upgrading framed layouts into finished structures for advanced builds (concrete, steel) is now harder / more time consuming.  Previously, it was possible to do structural mockups for a hardened base with rebar, then just nailgun everything.  Now, I find I have to go back and remove the framing, then place the final crete or steel block or fully upgrade the frame - which requires additional materials and IMO creates waste if your goal is to initially build with higher-tier mats.  Yes, the XP gain from doing full-chain upgrades somewhat balances things if you go from frames up to crete or steel, but the layout phase of building just feels very different and harder, even if it also has the potential to be faster.

 

As my team's builder, I used to get most of my XP from building our base out of rebar and upgrading it to rcon.  Now getting comparable XP requires throwing a bunch of extra wood and cobblestone at framed mockups and then going up to concrete.  Admittedly it doesn't sound like a big change, but the base I'm used to building for a group of 6-8 players would typically involve 3 or 4 thousand blocks, all made out of rcon.  Managing logistics isn't an issue - it's still 2 materials, just wood and stone instead of wood and iron.  But managing 3 layers of upgrades instead of 1 is more difficult.

 

Also, accidentally placing a finished block can now be an expensive error if it's concrete or steel.  One more consequence of removing rebar.

 

Last, as someone who relies heavily on precise dimensions for my builds, I've found it tougher to perform measurements without painting or otherwise adding marker frames, whereas before just counting the number of rebar / rcon blocks made things simple.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not railing against the decision to evolve the building system.  Treat the above as a knowledge exchange.  But I think one way to address everything I'm pointing out would be to bring rebar back in some form, even if only with the A19 system of shapes available for it, and just have it be upgradeable to finished concrete.  That would resolve the time and resource sinks for removing/replacing frames or fully upgrading them, and make it less likely for builders to have to destroy 5-10k HP blocks placed in error.

 

Sorry for the long post.  Nothing but praise from me otherwise on the changes to materials, shapes, and overall construction.

 

TLDR: I love the new build system but I miss rebar!

[bachgaman]

1 hour ago, meilodasreh said:

Well I might be wrong cause I built a 4x4 just once (in A17?), discarded it immediately (too slow and likely to get stuck) and since then stayed with the motorcycle.

 

Don't they have the same speed?