OzHawkeye Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I haven't seen the forums purring this loud in... forever! It's well deserved. It must be quite satisfying, especially after some hiccups with A17, that A18 is going along so well. This game is getting awfully addictive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 If that's my audience then I'll make sure to add TP to the game as well. But I do agree that simple is better for the base game. Having things like more in-depth farming and degradation of gear and food spoilage or harsher SI rules are things that mods are great for as not everyone will be down for those things and as you've stated before, crafting stuff and farming crops and managing hunger and thirst and durability of gear are not things you're passionate about at all. I see people complain about food spoilage in other games all the time. Go on game forums of games that have spoilage and you'll see them. They absolutely hate the mechanic no matter how it is implemented. But people who do like it would enjoy mods that add it to the game. So it makes complete sense to not add something that is going to just generate complaints if it is part of the base game if it can be modded onto the game for those who do want it and would be forgiving if it was slightly janky or unbalanced. There have been enough posts in this thread from people saying "NO please!!" to gear degradation in any form that I agree that it is best as a mod. But it will be a mod I will personally will want to play. I remember gear degradation from the past and miss that particular poop/wipe party. I'm totally passionate about those topics, I just don't agree that in depth meta games on simple basic tasks are rewarding to anyone. I'd rather present the player with real problems to solve in creative ways than hinder the experience with over complicated basics that aren't very rewarding. We can have bandits take your gear if you die in a raid. WHo cares about perma degradation when you just lost ALL your stuff, or a majority of your best things you had? You guys think too small with all your micro features. Think BIG and you will enjoy simplicity. The problem with meta gaming basic features is that it alienates new players who are still learning, and its just tedious. You have to groom them into little boys, then teenagers, and finally men, then throw some nasty stuff at them. That is better than overburdening people with tedious stuff just to do basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfbain5 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 ok, getting ready for my day 28 horde, tempted to try to stream it since I never streamed. agil5/int 7 traps horde level 33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Man Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I'm totally passionate about those topics, I just don't agree that in depth meta games on simple basic tasks are rewarding to anyone. I'd rather present the player with real problems to solve in creative ways than hinder the experience with over complicated basics that aren't very rewarding. We can have bandits take your gear if you die in a raid. WHo cares about perma degradation when you just lost ALL your stuff, or a majority of your best things you had? You guys think too small with all your micro features. Think BIG and you will enjoy simplicity. The problem with meta gaming basic features is that it alienates new players who are still learning, and its just tedious. You have to groom them into little boys, then teenagers, and finally men, then throw some nasty stuff at them. That is better than overburdening people with tedious stuff just to do basics. Bandits taking all your ♥♥♥♥, A19 confirmed!!!! 😅 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Man Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 ok, getting ready for my day 28 horde, tempted to try to stream it since I never streamed. agil5/int 7 traps horde level 33 Yes record it!!!!! And good luck!!!! 😎👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrex Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 After the day 74 horde error mess I had (rage quit after the errors/deaths LOL), I decided to do an A18 map trial myself. After 5 hours (watched netflix while it ran), server gen'd this 16k map (traders are the 'X's - poor southeast guy, LOL): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobross Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Playing single player or on a server? I've noticed this too, so I'm going to chime in here. This for me was on a dedicated server, but I'm running the server in a VM in my basement lab. VM has 8 vCPU and 16GB of RAM running Ubuntu. My office is on the second floor and has a gigabit link all the way through (hypervisor's on 10G) so it's not network lag and almost certainly not server utilization. Here's the thing though. I'm on a work trip right now in Philly, while the server's (obviously) still home in Maine. And I am seeing the exact same delay - it's definitely not longer than when I'm in the house instead of on crappy hotel wifi. I don't play single-player beyond a tiny test here and there, so I can't say if it's there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobross Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 7 items by day 7? That feels a little far fetched. Thats 72000 dukes I don't think so. Even with 3 ranks you only get 15% off now, so thats still a lot of money to raise. Moot point because purples will be gone from traders soon, and the rest is balance. Why would you scrap a purple when you can sell it for way more than the parts are worth? Sorry but it feels like you are exaggerating by a large margin or leaving out some details, like loot abundancy 200%, 5 hour day length, cheesing pois you know and going straight to the loot chests, etc. It just doesn't sound like the alpha I have 500 hours in and you have 20 or 40? I played 100 hours and had maybe one purple steel armor, the rest was odd colors and some iron yet. I looted a TON and even got desperate to cheese POI loot rooms a few times because RNG denied me a minigun forever. I wanted to reply to this specifically, because I think the problem is you've got 500 hours of single-player into this, and we're out here playing multi-player games getting stupid amounts of loot. I had a level 3 double-barrel shotgun before the end of the first day, just in loot from a tiny POI with two zombies in it. It was just past noon and I hit it on the way to the trader for finishing the starting quest. I think at one point you said that loot is taking party gamestage into account, and most of the people involved seem to be playing co-op on private servers, where you and all your friends party up as soon as you log in. Here's the flipside to that though; if that's a bug and you fix it, then you really probably need to readjust how gamestage works for groups. We had a group of four players get SEVENTEEN demolishers on Day 28. You can't run out in the field and kite 17 demolishers around to keep them off the defenses, and there's no easy way of knowing who he spawned on. Personally, I'd love to see you do a long game with MP co-op where you and your 4-6 buddies are playing 3-4 hours a night for a few weeks and see what it's like. Because I assure you, we're still over here getting tons of loot. We're not getting purples on Day 10 (where we're at now on this restart) but we're also not angling for it by doing lots of questing and perking into trader stuff, and we ARE getting greens and the rare blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieSurvivor Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I'm totally passionate about those topics, I just don't agree that in depth meta games on simple basic tasks are rewarding to anyone. I'd rather present the player with real problems to solve in creative ways than hinder the experience with over complicated basics that aren't very rewarding. We can have bandits take your gear if you die in a raid. WHo cares about perma degradation when you just lost ALL your stuff, or a majority of your best things you had? You guys think too small with all your micro features. Think BIG and you will enjoy simplicity. The problem with meta gaming basic features is that it alienates new players who are still learning, and its just tedious. You have to groom them into little boys, then teenagers, and finally men, then throw some nasty stuff at them. That is better than overburdening people with tedious stuff just to do basics. Well said boss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I'm totally passionate about those topics, I just don't agree that in depth meta games on simple basic tasks are rewarding to anyone. I'd rather present the player with real problems to solve in creative ways than hinder the experience with over complicated basics that aren't very rewarding. We can have bandits take your gear if you die in a raid. WHo cares about perma degradation when you just lost ALL your stuff, or a majority of your best things you had? You guys think too small with all your micro features. Think BIG and you will enjoy simplicity. The problem with meta gaming basic features is that it alienates new players who are still learning, and its just tedious. You have to groom them into little boys, then teenagers, and finally men, then throw some nasty stuff at them. That is better than overburdening people with tedious stuff just to do basics. The issue with your new player focus, and you know this is coming from a fan of 18, is that your game is quickly becoming so simple that every other game is doing way more than you are. At one point you were the leader in things like degradation, LBD, crafting, mining etc. A well rounded game experience that rewarded players for investing time. Even though Im enjoying 18 I am not going to sugar coat the fact that you have competition that is up and coming, and also from already established games that are beginning or are already doing the things we USED to enjoy that you no longer do. I understand the desire to lure in new players on a consistent basis, but what happens then. Youre not going to acquire new players forever. Your game is 5 years old. A major portion of the gaming community already owns your game. Unless you plan to Alpha update for the next 10 years and pick up players being born this decade i think focusing solely on new players is going to be a major mistake long term. Those little boys you are grooming into men? That process takes 20 in game hours tops. We always come back to the same old question. Then what? Some of us didnt embrace your changes, we were forced to adapt to them, thats a key difference. Sure people are over LBD because they had no choice in it. Now they have no choice in Degradation on repair. Looting DOES become boring after a while. Im restarting my game so much because by day 20 its over for me, so i guess you DID accomplish your goal of making the first 20 hours action packed and exciting. But it still kind of falls apart after that. Horde night is the only reason to continue. You have taken away all my other reasons to continue on. Im not going to play JUST because I want a tier 6. I have no need for it when I can handle enemies with what i have now perked out. Telling people to mod things is facetious. You are primarily against those types of discussions and I feel like its the new go to when people start discussing something they would like changed. Modders will handle it. ItIt effectively shuts down a conversation but at the same time its a sensitive topic here when used to demonstrate how popular or loved something is. It cant be both ways. New players are fickle, and half of them will shelf your game after 50 hours because its what todays gamers do. Flavors of the month. You guys are better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieSurvivor Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 The issue with your new player focus, and you know this is coming from a fan of 18, is that your game is quickly becoming so simple that every other game is doing way more than you are. <snip> damn, your counter argument is valid and contains a lot of good points. Well said, as well lol. The whole resorting to directing players to modding is weak in my opinion, so I agree with you whole heartedly on that point. No need for me to comment on the rest of your points as they are valid and speak for themselves. EDIT: although I would slightely disagree with, no point in playing after day 20. End game content has not been added yet. Bandits, story line etc. This should be taken in to account when judging IMO. Sometimes its good to look beyond the horizon to try and see that which is to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 While I believe that 7dtd gameplay will get to be superior compared to any Bethesda game, I reserve my judgement about the quest/campaign/faction stuff. When I reserve my judgement it's generally because of disbelief. Now, if you hire traslators, lore "enrichers" and writers to fix grammar mistakes I could end up eating my words. And I am eating my words quite a bit lately with this title. The Elder Scrolls lore does have tons of hours of work behind. Fallout ( Obsidian's core concept) does too. 7 days deserves much more lore and story than, at least, Fallout. We have no plans on matching their games on lore at least not for our first entry in the franchise. Elder Scrolls wasn't built in a day and Fallout already had lore since they just bought that franchise. It will probably take us 3-4 versions to catch up to where Skyrim is now, and they will be at a whole new level then. I mean sure things could change and if we blew up to a 100 man team over a few games, or even hired one writer it could change, but our plans are to make a light RPG and grow on all the systems over time. We hope to have a few memorable quests and hopefully a decent main story, but we're a small team and it doesn't have to smash them to be good enough for what we're doing. Our strengths are systemic designs and emergent game play, theirs are quests and story telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arma Rex Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 We have no plans on matching their games on lore at least not for our first entry in the franchise. Elder Scrolls wasn't built in a day and Fallout already had lore since they just bought that franchise. It will probably take us 3-4 versions to catch up to where Skyrim is now, and they will be at a whole new level then. I mean sure things could change and if we blew up to a 100 man team over a few games, or even hired one writer it could change, but our plans are to make a light RPG and grow on all the systems over time. We hope to have a few memorable quests and hopefully a decent main story, but we're a small team and it doesn't have to smash them to be good enough for what we're doing. Our strengths are systemic designs and emergent game play, theirs are quests and story telling. Out of curiosity, how difficult is it to find new team members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayzenFreeze Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Not sure what you might need info wise to help me but A16 my bro got 40FPS ish in medium settings now even everything off and minimum tried stuff like gtx dt pp etc no real help. Inside he gets about 50FPS outside he gets ~8FPS AMD cpu/gpu He has something like 3.0ghz quad core 4gb amd video card dont remember model and i think 8-16GB ram. Is there anything else you can do to help him play? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pregnable Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I'm totally passionate about those topics, I just don't agree that in depth meta games on simple basic tasks are rewarding to anyone. I'd rather present the player with real problems to solve in creative ways than hinder the experience with over complicated basics that aren't very rewarding. We can have bandits take your gear if you die in a raid. WHo cares about perma degradation when you just lost ALL your stuff, or a majority of your best things you had? You guys think too small with all your micro features. Think BIG and you will enjoy simplicity. The problem with meta gaming basic features is that it alienates new players who are still learning, and its just tedious. You have to groom them into little boys, then teenagers, and finally men, then throw some nasty stuff at them. That is better than overburdening people with tedious stuff just to do basics. Exactly. We do not need poop minigames, reloading your gun minigames, minigames to make sure you hand the money to the trader correctly, opening food can minigames, or any other bothersome and unfun minigames some of the forum members can think of, lel. You can add depth and challenge through balance and content and have it actually be fun instead. Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I actually forgot about this one, my first iron mine right outside Diersvill, because I depleted all teh iron already, but still has tons of lead. Is a good example of how I leave the OG node though. But I didn't surround this one in bars like I did the coal, and others. That also makes a great spot to set your junk turret for watching the entrance... [ATTACH=CONFIG]30011[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]30012[/ATTACH] And I made a cozy little spot within some lead here too, do some smelting whilst I mine, etc [ATTACH=CONFIG]30013[/ATTACH] Crazy place to just forget about, ended up neat, but again I got what I needed already. [ATTACH=CONFIG]30014[/ATTACH] Dude, you need to stream. I'm such an amateur, now that I've seen how you roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechanicalLens Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Testing out the Bladed Curtain, my final line of defense within my horde base. (Note: Yes, I can repair them from above. ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPQW0RVw-84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I'm totally passionate about those topics, I just don't agree that in depth meta games on simple basic tasks are rewarding to anyone. I'd rather present the player with real problems to solve in creative ways than hinder the experience with over complicated basics that aren't very rewarding. We can have bandits take your gear if you die in a raid. WHo cares about perma degradation when you just lost ALL your stuff, or a majority of your best things you had? You guys think too small with all your micro features. Think BIG and you will enjoy simplicity. The problem with meta gaming basic features is that it alienates new players who are still learning, and its just tedious. You have to groom them into little boys, then teenagers, and finally men, then throw some nasty stuff at them. That is better than overburdening people with tedious stuff just to do basics. I guess “passionate” wasn’t the right word. Perhaps it is just that you think of certain gameplay choices as tedious that I think of as fun. But you’ve also enabled the means for us to get our brand of fun via mods so that is wonderful. My mom, for example, would be super pleased with a dozen more crop varieties, fruit trees, and incorporating irrigation and crop quality to farming as well as growing seasons. I’m fine with none of that being in the base game. The current crops and the planter mechanic is great for me. Too much emphasis on farming would feel tedious to me. But, anyhow, raiders stealing your stuff does sound awesome for the future as long as I have a chance to track them back to their hidey hole and get revenge....and my stuff back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungryZombie Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Because it only breaks if you don't have the skills to maintain it. Otherwise for instance why even take the crafting skills? Especially as the crafting skills don't even let you craft the purple version and you have to loot/buy it. There is no reason at all to have a crafting skill end game. Might as well use the respec and remove all crafting skills as they become 100% useless end game. I'm not sure what crafting skills you mean. I take the weapon perks cause the add damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieSurvivor Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I guess “passionate” wasn’t the right word. Perhaps it is just that you think of certain gameplay choices as tedious that I think of as fun. But you’ve also enabled the means for us to get our brand of fun via mods so that is wonderful. My mom, for example, would be super pleased with a dozen more crop varieties, fruit trees, and incorporating irrigation and crop quality to farming as well as growing seasons. I’m fine with none of that being in the base game. The current crops and the planter mechanic is great for me. Too much emphasis on farming would feel tedious to me. But, anyhow, raiders stealing your stuff does sound awesome for the future as long as I have a chance to track them back to their hidey hole and get revenge....and my stuff back. Maybe its just me getting in touch with my almost non existant feminine side but, I agree with your mom. All that sounds fun and I would love to see it added to the game! Cough "Harvest Moon" cough.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Its interesting: I've read several people now getting "bored" just when the game starts getting dangerous... To each their own way, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trankitas Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Devs is it possible to enhance the catwalk stairs hitbox (?) a little bit? When you're walking or running them downwards you tend to go above the railing and fall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechanimal Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Testing out the Bladed Curtain, my final line of defense within my horde base. (Note: Yes, I can repair them from above. ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPQW0RVw-84 With fists like that you are the blender within the blender. Meta levels of blending my dude, should be quite the blood moon. So you're just gonna hang out in that steel room open doors and smack down whoever makes it that far?.. if they make it that far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archergod Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Purples are ledendaries, so we don't want people crafting legendaries. We let the craft up to blue and enabled random stats on t2 and 3 crafting, so that is a LOT of love since 18's launch. I am not excited by T6 are not craftable, but frankly I haven't played long enough to get even blue items yet. And from my experience, I never get excited to get T2 item, as they still have one mod and t1 can beat t3 item 95% of time, So I often find 5-10 t3 item before I can actually use any. And most of time it is just because I need 2 mod in items or more. I feel t2 and t4 will lose their charm as more people play this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 damn, your counter argument is valid and contains a lot of good points. Well said, as well lol. The whole resorting to directing players to modding is weak in my opinion, so I agree with you whole heartedly on that point. No need for me to comment on the rest of your points as they are valid and speak for themselves. EDIT: although I would slightely disagree with, no point in playing after day 20. End game content has not been added yet. Bandits, story line etc. This should be taken in to account when judging IMO. Sometimes its good to look beyond the horizon to try and see that which is to come. To your last point I have been here for a long while as a lot of others have as well, and we watched the goalposts get moved on end game content several times. By the teams own admission they are targeting 20 hour players so my assessment is not that far off for whats expected for a casual player. They are going to want new players to experience bandits so those surely wont be held off past a certain point from appearing in game. I can only comment on what is in game currently. Not what we think it will look like in the future because we had that vision once and look how drastically things have changed from A13 to now. Long term goals but in game has been so significantly shortened it is very hard to envision a world where this game is designed to last past day 100. As a matter of fact its been said numerous times that its not entirely designed for that, just that extended play is an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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