Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[DaVegaNL]

why would you play a sandbox for story? END GAME is the most important thing in this type of games

 

I don't agree. End game =/= late game material. End game I don't want in 7 days. Late game, that's a different story.

A story is always good.

[trielkee]

For late game, I'd be pretty happy with saving NPC survivors and protecting them from zombie and bandit attacks.

[archergod]

why would you play a sandbox for story? END GAME is the most important thing in this type of games

 

For if someone want End Game, Thing it this way. The First time your character die is the End of Game.. or Just Survive until you can reproduce and make new human colony and you are the GOD of it .

[RavenGT]

You know what would be awesome, but probably not possible?

 

Distant Weather:

 

- Seeing the mountain tops covered in mist/fog

 

- Seeing a giant dust storm loom closer and closer to your area

 

- Seeing a blizzard up ahead in a nearby town

 

- Seeing massive rain/thunder clouds drenching the desert

 

- High tailing it out of dodge when you see that radiation storm closing in on you

 

Maybe the sequel.

 

 

 

YAS! An intelligent and meaningful weather system would add a TON to the lacking immersion.

[Scyris]

Over the years I've had several ideas for an end-game scenario in 7D2D, my most recent idea was having a 30 day period where you have to find a certain amount of human survivors and bring them back to your underground base. After 30 days a huge nuclear blast goes off across the whole map that does a random generated number of damage and if your base, as a whole, has more than that number in HP (all your blocks) you survive, if not you witness the whole world blowing up, you included. Like, having the number of days survived turning red and you have a -30 days counter. And that period could start at anytime after 350+ days.

 

You see, I can never really find an ending that "fits". I for one don't really want an end-game mission sort of thing.

You are supposed to just survive, and I'm cool with that.

 

That being said, I'm ALL for a 1-life mode. I was hoping this would make it into A17.

Can you imagine how upset you would be if you break your leg, and are out in the wilderness somewhere without a splinter?

 

You can play a 1 life mode right now, just if you die, go to continue and delete that world in SP. I play like this all the time, adds a extra thrill to it, especally when you get out of some situations by pure luck. Most recent one was a wandering horde caught me while I was messing with my inventory, and I ended up having the stun they landed on me wear off when I had 3 hp left, and I managed to JUST get far enough away to dodge the hit that would have killed me. Healed up, turned around, pulled out my machete (this game really needs a katana just saying) and went to stab town on the zombies.

[Scyris]

YAS! An intelligent and meaningful weather system would add a TON to the lacking immersion.

 

I think having the zombies be randoly generated with varying health, damage, move speed and especally looks would add a ton. Killing zombies gets boring for me as its all the same exact clones over and over.

Like zombies have classes lets take the nurse zombie: looks are randomize but they stull have a nurse outfit or hat at least, health could be between say 80-150, damage between 10-20, move speed between 80%-120%, I mean if these were monsters in the normal sense then each of them being the same is fine, but since they were previously humans, they should have far more varied looks.

 

It does get better in later gamestages when some ferals that always run get mixed in with the normals.

 

I normally build a base underground as I see no reason at all to build on the surface right now. If npcs could move in but the base had to be on the surface i'd build one there then, but since nothing like that is ingame, underground it is. I do have my farm on ground level though but thats usually just a plot of dirt in the desert.

 

They tried the random looks thing a bit with the UMA zombies but the performance was so god awefully bad they had to scrap them for now. Even high end pcs would slow to a crawl if more than a few were on screen with the UMA ones.

 

Funny thing is, I really like 7dtd, I always come back to it after taking a break for a while. Its my most played game on steam with over 1350 hours. I may complain about some things, like in this post, but I still enjoy the game. I am really waiting for a17 since it seems like its going to feel like a entirely new game. I hope they stick with it, and don't decide to completly remake it all in a18 all over again.

[Xrt]

You can play a 1 life mode right now, just if you die, go to continue and delete that world in SP. I play like this all the time, adds a extra thrill to it, especally when you get out of some situations by pure luck. Most recent one was a wandering horde caught me while I was messing with my inventory, and I ended up having the stun they landed on me wear off when I had 3 hp left, and I managed to JUST get far enough away to dodge the hit that would have killed me. Healed up, turned around, pulled out my machete (this game really needs a katana just saying) and went to stab town on the zombies.

 

Yeah, man

I used to do that, but the temptation to just continue can sometimes be too strong, you know?

EDIT: I also, for the most part, just play MP.

[Guppycur]

well, we are not getting it in a17 so this discussion is pointless

 

We certainly do not know that at all; this is where the conversation trees are being introduced, and it would be silly of them to not populate them with lore.

[Survager]

Structure as a "stool"

 

Got a nice feature working today:

AI Break Block does targeted block hits based on improved obstacle check.

 

Now it is a 3 block high check. AIs go after middle, then weakest of low/high. Favors the low, since if they destroyed med/high, they would have to jump.

 

Faatal, Gazz, will zombies guess to destroy the pillars of the structure as a "stool"? Now Zambi just run around the center and do not attack the supports. This makes them easy prey for the player.

 

[Cazmyr]

Gazz, will zombies guess to destroy the pillars of the structure as a "stool"? Now Zambi just run around the center and do not attack the supports. This makes them easy prey for the player.

 

 

I am wondering this also.

 

I would love to see the build that people use (me included) because they take advantage of the

AI of the zombies to go away.

 

They should be able to negotiate through a 'toothy' as we do.

They should be able to walk through 2 50 pillars as we can.

And they should attack support posts, in bases like the pic above.

[Menace312]

Well, but then you're proposing one of the biggest features of story-based games - that they have an end.

If the game doesn't end there is no end game, no final boss.

 

Well... It USED to be this way...

But the mening of endgame has evolved.

 

Endgame now means: You've killed the final boss, and there is no more premade evolving lore/story.

So now you play with the "tools" you got. Or said in another way: You now make your own story from that point on...

[Cazmyr]

Yeah.. thats a major problem the game has atm, there is no actual endgame in a16.4, once your around lv 40 or 60, thats about it, you'll be able to craft anything better than you'd ever find, so that kills reason to explore. You can also get easly self sufficent too. Once your self sufficent the game kinda loses most of its meaning for me, as its not like there is some fun weapons.

 

I agree with you.

 

To me the most exciting part is the start to mid-game. When you are barely able to survive. You make your base plan (laid out on a spread sheet of course), and you gather, loot and fight for your life to make that base. You get 1 or 2 stone per hit with your crap axe and you make it work.

 

Then, you level up and get better tools and you get 81 stone per hit. It gets to the point that resources are no longer a problem.

 

Ill end the ramble here and this is all just my opinion and nothing that needs to change with the game at all.

[SittingDuck]

I agree with you.

 

To me the most exciting part is the start to mid-game. When you are barely able to survive. You make your base plan (laid out on a spread sheet of course), and you gather, loot and fight for your life to make that base. You get 1 or 2 stone per hit with your crap axe and you make it work.

 

Then, you level up and get better tools and you get 81 stone per hit. It gets to the point that resources are no longer a problem.

 

Ill end the ramble here and this is all just my opinion and nothing that needs to change with the game at all.

 

It´s a sandbox after all and some realy like to build big stuff. If you need more late game excitement, I think mods should do the trick, or a gamerule like "craft no weapons"

[JaxTeller718]

I think a lot of people are mixing up "endgame" with what could be easily solved by slower progression. I'm no expert but one of the reasons mods are popular overall is that there is more to do, and most mods extend progression through more crafting, more learning and slower leveling.

 

I think a lot of people who have issues when it comes to end game would be satiated with a slightly slower journey with more rewards. For example having concrete bases on day 7 takes away a huge portion of any type of struggle,being able to spam QJ starts the flood of high tier weapons and tools much sooner than it should. If I have any wish for 7 Days in the future or any real complaint its that it stop rushing me through its amazing experience that you feel in those first few days of playing. You go from 0-90 MPH very quickly and a good portion of players seem to lose interest around day 35-ish.

 

Most mods I have seen streamed linger well past day 100 and even 200 with people STILL building and trying to collect everything.

[Cazmyr]

It´s a sandbox after all and some realy like to build big stuff. If you need more late game excitement, I think mods should do the trick, or a gamerule like "craft no weapons"

 

You are absolutely right! I am enjoying Undead Legacy for just that reason. Slow progression and enhanced crafting/ food system.

 

I have also played Valmod and enjoy the progression and crafting system there as well!

[Cazmyr]

I think a lot of people are mixing up "endgame" with what could be easily solved by slower progression. I'm no expert but one of the reasons mods are popular overall is that there is more to do, and most mods extend progression through more crafting, more learning and slower leveling.

 

I think a lot of people who have issues when it comes to end game would be satiated with a slightly slower journey with more rewards. For example having concrete bases on day 7 takes away a huge portion of any type of struggle,being able to spam QJ starts the flood of high tier weapons and tools much sooner than it should. If I have any wish for 7 Days in the future or any real complaint its that it stop rushing me through its amazing experience that you feel in those first few days of playing. You go from 0-90 MPH very quickly and a good portion of players seem to lose interest around day 35-ish.

 

Most mods I have seen streamed linger well past day 100 and even 200 with people STILL building and trying to collect everything.

 

The mods are excellent for this and, I admit, I have not tried Ravenhurst, yet. I watch a lot of You-Tubers play it and it looks awesome and those nightmares look/ sound creepy.

 

I would love to find one that is fun and exciting into day 100 or more. I think I am going to try to build my base for horde night and then start aesthetic builds for fun. Or perhaps mini bases near large towns. Lots of possibilities!

[archergod]

I agree with you.

 

To me the most exciting part is the start to mid-game. When you are barely able to survive. You make your base plan (laid out on a spread sheet of course), and you gather, loot and fight for your life to make that base. You get 1 or 2 stone per hit with your crap axe and you make it work.

 

Then, you level up and get better tools and you get 81 stone per hit. It gets to the point that resources are no longer a problem.

 

Ill end the ramble here and this is all just my opinion and nothing that needs to change with the game at all.

 

Agree with you that once you reach 50-60 level game become relatively easy, but still I am playing this game for last 10-12 months and that is where game's second strong suite came in, MOD. They make this game modded for a reason. They officially support these mod and even in A17 making feature for modder for this reason. To compensate the End game. Think of End Game, what will you get as end game? Make a Spaceship and fly away, find a spouse and make new human colony, or die of old game? Whatever it is, most good and experience player will get it around 150-170 level out of 200 level and they still become self sufficient at 70-80 level .. and rest all levels are just plain boring progress to make something so complex that it need that level..

 

In short I am happy with what this game provide, Mods and then play on modded server. I remember I join a server in 1000th day and then trying to survive as all building has Radiated zombie, no cars to get engine, most buildings empty or broken, yet again once I reach 100level all is easy. I change server and go on .

[Maguvas]

I agree with you.

 

To me the most exciting part is the start to mid-game. When you are barely able to survive. You make your base plan (laid out on a spread sheet of course), and you gather, loot and fight for your life to make that base. You get 1 or 2 stone per hit with your crap axe and you make it work.

 

Then, you level up and get better tools and you get 81 stone per hit. It gets to the point that resources are no longer a problem.

 

Ill end the ramble here and this is all just my opinion and nothing that needs to change with the game at all.

 

Agree to add some sort of endgame not fixed please - beginning at certain day - but maybe triggered by a chain of events.

 

Apart from that I'm at level seventysomething and the blood moon horde is in continuous upgrade: the day 70 I was attacked by 3 spider radiated zombies and 2 radiated cops among others and these guys almost destroyed my defences.

 

So I'm traveling everywhere to gather iron and prepare a new traps plan and as of now this is the main reason to explore.

 

I agree with you that if you have built a rocksolid base and there are no hints nor story to discover, exploring is no more a priority... at least for me not yet

[konrax]

With regard to zombie ai, in all honesty I feel that it needs to have a random element to it to help with immersion and to make it difficult for players to abuse ai weak points.

 

If a zombie were to reach a point where it would become frustrated and start lashing out on nearby objects randomly I think it would go a long way with helping the overall ai find possible attack paths by causing random damage to players bases allowing them to open up. While they are in rage they can still change to a nearby player or a new path if it presents itself. I also think that adding a random timer to each zombie when they will switch to a new path to nearby players will help keep immersion as well. It doesn't make sense that all the zombies would suddenly switch at once and start pouring through a hole in your base, instead they would start to become aware of the weakness and shamble towards it.

 

Maybe this won't work for every possible scenario of base building, but as long as they are attacking nearby objects and causing damage they will be doing something instead of walking in circles.

 

I also hope a lot of the efficiencies you are finding in this update can go towards allowing for more stable zombies. It is great now but I think this game would really shine if you could have 200-300 zombies at once compared to having nearly unkillable super zombies instead.

[Buggi]

The one thing that would go a long way to keeping players in their worlds longer would be harder and harder zombie types that just don't appear before your gamestage is less than 800 or so. And with those zombies comes new tech, new ways of defending, new schematics unattainable any other way.

 

So you have gamestage 0-800 with the zombies being what you see today. Putrid girl to irradiated cop...

801-1500 would include an increasing amount of 2-3 new types

1501-2500 would introduce base crushing zombies, by this time you've got max guns, plenty of ammo, and concrete/steel bases.

2501+ could start having 'boss' zombies that spawn on horde nights that REALLY mess up your rhythm.

 

There are SO many things the devs could do with the game, unfortunately I don't see them actually doing them. The game has so much potential, and if they get around to actually building good modding api and systems, we might eventually see these ideas come to light. With the SEVERE lag you get with crafting benches when you have mods adding recipes adding that the game, somehow STILL has hard coded ID's, and you get devs that are so focused on the trees, they forget about the forest.

[Brian9824]

The one thing that would go a long way to keeping players in their worlds longer would be harder and harder zombie types that just don't appear before your gamestage is less than 800 or so. And with those zombies comes new tech, new ways of defending, new schematics unattainable any other way.

 

So you have gamestage 0-800 with the zombies being what you see today. Putrid girl to irradiated cop...

801-1500 would include an increasing amount of 2-3 new types

1501-2500 would introduce base crushing zombies, by this time you've got max guns, plenty of ammo, and concrete/steel bases.

2501+ could start having 'boss' zombies that spawn on horde nights that REALLY mess up your rhythm.

 

There are SO many things the devs could do with the game, unfortunately I don't see them actually doing them. The game has so much potential, and if they get around to actually building good modding api and systems, we might eventually see these ideas come to light. With the SEVERE lag you get with crafting benches when you have mods adding recipes adding that the game, somehow STILL has hard coded ID's, and you get devs that are so focused on the trees, they forget about the forest.

 

Most of what your describing such as modding API's, balance and optimization are typically done during the beta, not during the alpha. The dev's right now are worried about putting up the walls, not deciding what color paint to use

[Roland]

The one thing that would go a long way to keeping players in their worlds longer would be harder and harder zombie types that just don't appear before your gamestage is less than 800 or so. And with those zombies comes new tech, new ways of defending, new schematics unattainable any other way.

 

So you have gamestage 0-800 with the zombies being what you see today. Putrid girl to irradiated cop...

801-1500 would include an increasing amount of 2-3 new types

1501-2500 would introduce base crushing zombies, by this time you've got max guns, plenty of ammo, and concrete/steel bases.

2501+ could start having 'boss' zombies that spawn on horde nights that REALLY mess up your rhythm.

 

You call this “endgame” content. Others would call it midgame and still complain for more because they rushed as quickly as they could to get there. There will always come a time when the player is bored because all threats have been overcome. Adding ever more and greater threats sounds like post launch updates to me—and even then there is going to be a point where they will have to stop and there will STILL be reviews that will appear claiming TFP abandoned the “endgame”. Do endgame credits need to roll in order to signal that the game is over and it’s time to start over or move on?

 

There are SO many things the devs could do with the game, unfortunately I don't see them actually doing them. The game has so much potential, and if they get around to actually building good modding api and systems, we might eventually see these ideas come to light. With the SEVERE lag you get with crafting benches when you have mods adding recipes adding that the game, somehow STILL has hard coded ID's, and you get devs that are so focused on the trees, they forget about the forest.

 

There would be zero mods without these devs building the base structure that they have. You act as if they are all done with whatever they’re going to do and this is what modders are going to have to work with.

 

The game is still being developed.

 

Full mod support hasn’t even been added yet. More content and fleshed out features are coming from the devs themselves. Right now they are focused on completing their game and not letting themselves get distracted by what modders want them to do to make A16 mods run better. They understand the forest and the see the trees but you want them to come over here and look at this twig on the ground.

 

Yes, the game has potential. That’s because the devs have coded it that way—to be a game that can potentially be whatever someone imagines it to be. Not only are they creating an open ended world to play in, they are creating an open ended potential for other people to develop their ideas and create their own visions.

[Darkfoxx117]

You can really see how many times Roland has had to respond to these types of rants. Good job dude good job

[Ouch Quit It]

WOOP!

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Rotating+Lights+and+Sirens&&view=detail&mid=C9678E97F5C9A91414CCC9678E97F5C9A91414CC&&FORM=VDRVRV

[Odetta]

Does it count towards this player graph if you use the mod launcher?

 

https://steamdb.info/app/251570/graphs/