Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Jugginator]

I noticed some smaller houses and such have very few zombies in them. If it was intended, thank you. I do like the balance on hard dungeons and little-infested houses. But yeah I love the shift to full on horror.

[faatal]

Thank you for the reply.

I understand that this is for the editor now.

 

It is not for the editor. POIs usually have many sleeper volumes in them. The volumes control what type of sleepers are in them, when those sleepers are spawned, killed and when to respawn.

[Damocles]

Let me ask you this: What if the game dropped all xp gaining from killing zombies and all other activities so that nothing earned xp and instead you just increased a level at the end of each day that you survived. This would mean that no matter what you did or how efficiently you did it you would always level up once per day. What activities would you do? Where would the fun of the game reside for you? Would you still hunt and kill every zombie in your path since it wouldn't matter or would you ignore some? Would you use the trader more or less? Would you build more? What goals would drive you in the game if the ability to speed up the progression was removed from your control and the only actions that mattered were those that would help you survive and that were of interest to you?

 

Now try playing that way even though you can gain xp. You'll still be able to survive. I played for 800+ hours before xp was even added to the game and I pretty much play the same way now as I did then.

 

There are plenty of games without character progression (XP, skills). The game would be then centered around other things:

-collecting the best items and resources, to make the player more powerful and have more options

-have some larger meta-game, such as fighting against some active factions (bandits), fighting for their territory

-exploration: if the game has novel destinations to explore. (currently there is a limited set of POI templates, so this cant be a long term goal, they are only new once). A random generator for the POIs would give it more variety

-story ... an approach a lot of narrative game pursue. Not strictly needed in a sandbox game though.

[faatal]

I kinda wanted to start drawing more or all the sleepers out of a POI to clear it, like in any zombie tvshow where they knock on the doors/windows to draw them out.

 

You can do that for parts of a POI, just not for an entire POI unless it is a small one.

[Damocles]

It is not for the editor. POIs usually have many sleeper volumes in them. The volumes control what type of sleepers are in them, when those sleepers are spawned, killed and when to respawn.

 

You could use different custom trigger boxes assigned to spawners.

Where some will trigger to sound anywhere around the POI already (running out when firing that shotgun), and other only triggering when nearby (player is inside a certain room of the POI)

 

Its more manual work for the level designers, but not that much more effort.

 

This way you can have both

-really narrow trigger boxes for jump-scares (zombie waits behind a corner)

-large trigger boxes to have larger groups running out when making noise outside the POI

 

----

 

This could even lead to funny situation, that a player clears a POI, takes it a base, while not realizing that there in one zombie still hidden in a small room somewhere.

[Hek Harris]

This could even lead to funny situation, that a player clears a POI, takes it a base, while not realizing that there in one zombie still hidden in a small room somewhere.

And we would see an avalanche of posts to explain to Faatal that the system is broken because zombies respawn while the POI has been cleaned

[Damocles]

And we would see an avalanche of posts to explain to Faatal that the system is broken because zombies respawn while the POI has been cleaned

 

Thats more a problem with the respawn in general.

If a player knows that zombies get spawned ONCE, and are dead forevery when killed. And this is consistant, then a zombie suddenly apearing is known to have been there all the time.

If the game respawns something, the player assumes some unclear mechanic.

 

Respawns (a zombie once killed) should not happen for several days (adjustable in MP Servers). And maybe never in SP.

 

If the player leaves a POI with active zombies still inside, those zombies should stay active. Maybe teleporting them back to their original spawn position, putting them back in sleep mode.

[Roland]

There are plenty of games without character progression (XP, skills). The game would be then centered around other things:

-collecting the best items and resources, to make the player more powerful and have more options

-have some larger meta-game, such as fighting against some active factions (bandits), fighting for their territory

-exploration: if the game has novel destinations to explore. (currently there is a limited set of POI templates, so this cant be a long term goal, they are only new once). A random generator for the POIs would give it more variety

-story ... an approach a lot of narrative game pursue. Not strictly needed in a sandbox game though.

 

Right, and this game has player chosen objectives that can be centered upon and my point is that even though there is xp and leveling a player is free to choose to center his or her attention on other objectives than simply accumulating xp as quickly as possible.

 

It's not even theoretical.

 

*raises hand* Doing it!

[SickPuppy]

Nightmare is an "experimental" speed meant to be faster than sprint. Unfortunately it is capped by the run anim speed, so does not do much at the moment. There are ways to make it faster but they need careful testing to not break the other speeds. Careful takes time and I don't like breaking stuff.

 

Hoping it becomes sth like a box of chocolates where we don't know what we gonna get. I picture a 7dtd where some zombies are faster than us and make me fear stepping out instead of roaming the map 24/7.

[Pritch]

Regarding Pritch, I think they SHOULD be level locked, but I also think it would be nice to have some functionable or some missing some parts around. Such as a chopper on a helipad uptop a hospital skyscraper, maybe a random chance outside a bar or something for a minibike or hog that requires hell to get + need repairs. Maybe a busted engine that you need to swap out or something.

 

I appreciate your disagreement. You raise a good point that parts could be in the world as an alternative to you having to level far enough to make it yourself. In either case, having an opportunity at transportation at an earlier game stage is what I look forward to and I support almost any system that creates these opportunities.

[MrSamuelAdam]

Hoping it becomes sth like a box of chocolates where we don't know what we gonna get. I picture a 7dtd where some zombies are faster than us and make me fear stepping out instead of roaming the map 24/7.

 

Yeah faatal is that possible... I would hope there would be a mode that has a rng (random) walk, jog, run, sprint and nightmare all in one setting, for day and/or night. So you just don't know what you're coming up against. i'd love that!

[MrSamuelAdam]

1. Does a dev or anyone know does increasing your game difficulty (nomad insane etc) increase the rate of your gamestage or just the damage zombies do to blocks, you and the amount of damage they can take?

 

2. Cause I was wondering, if increasing the difficulty didn't increase gamestage rate would increasing this number do that or would it be the same thing as above, or are these two things completely different?

scavengerGameDifficultyBonus="1.0"

adventurerGameDifficultyBonus="1.2"

nomadGameDifficultyBonus="1.5"

warriorGameDifficultyBonus="1.7"

survivalistGameDifficultyBonus="2.0"

insaneGameDifficultyBonus="2.5"

 

Say changing nomad from 1.5 to like 3 would that mean the zombies would be tougher, as in the hit points they take and absorb be the same as insane in the regular main menu, or does increasing that number only increase the rate of your gamestage?

[archergod]

I have a Suggestion for Game Level. In Early game if you go in POI they have few zed less then when you go later. I feel like that. Not sure if it is true. But can we make so when in Normal Game we get 1x to Sleeper count, 0.9x when in Advernturer or 0.8x in scavanger level and similar for higher level.

 

As of now Game Level only touch Hitpoint, one aspect of game, but I believe that setting should do more. Infact game level should have different default values for other settings like Air Drop mark, Airdrop delay, etc as well . And why not?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

1. Does a dev or anyone know does increasing your game difficulty (nomad insane etc) increase the rate of your gamestage or just the damage zombies do to blocks, you and the amount of damage they can take?

 

2. Cause I was wondering, if increasing the difficulty didn't increase gamestage rate would increasing this number do that or would it be the same thing as above, or are these two things completely different?

scavengerGameDifficultyBonus="1.0"

adventurerGameDifficultyBonus="1.2"

nomadGameDifficultyBonus="1.5"

warriorGameDifficultyBonus="1.7"

survivalistGameDifficultyBonus="2.0"

insaneGameDifficultyBonus="2.5"

 

Say changing nomad from 1.5 to like 3 would that mean the zombies would be tougher, as in the hit points they take and absorb be the same as insane in the regular main menu, or does increasing that number only increase the rate of your gamestage?

 

It effect gamestage too, You can start game, with one level, note gamestage, logout and start with new level you will see difference in game stage.

[DaVegaNL]

1) Removes zombie loot from zombies, since 'you don't want to receive crap from zombies', 'you will get good loot once it drops', 'zombies aren't providing you with crap all the time'.

 

2) Kills a zombie, said zombie drops a loot bag.

 

3) Loot bag contains 1 corn meal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can someone explain to me why zombie loot is A) not completely removed, or B) zombie loot actually drops useful/valueable stuff.

[MrSamuelAdam]

I have a Suggestion for Game Level. In Early game if you go in POI they have few zed less then when you go later. I feel like that. Not sure if it is true. But can we make so when in Normal Game we get 1x to Sleeper count, 0.9x when in Advernturer or 0.8x in scavanger level and similar for higher level.

 

As of now Game Level only touch Hitpoint, one aspect of game, but I believe that setting should do more. Infact game level should have different default values for other settings like Air Drop mark, Airdrop delay, etc as well . And why not?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

It effect gamestage too, You can start game, with one level, note gamestage, logout and start with new level you will see difference in game stage.

 

So both insane increases gamestage rank as well as changing in config nomadGameDifficultyBonus="1.5" to say nomadGameDifficultyBonus="3.0"

 

But would the nomadGameDifficultyBonus="3.0" just have the gamestage increase but not the zombie difficulty ie block damage, damage taken to die etc...

[JCrook1028]

It really can't be otherwise in a zombie survival game. Don't get me wrong, players (including me) enjoy the farming and crafting aspects, but of necessity they have to be done in the context of surviving zombies.

 

Because without that goal, there's no motivation to craft steel/iron tools, or make a concrete base, or get better food, or start a farm, or whatever. You might as well just mod out all skill points and leveling.

 

(EDIT: Or only play in creative mode .)

 

My only point: Roland shouldn't criticize players for doing what the game, itself, is motivating the player to do. If "rush[ing] to get to the top" causes the game to be less enjoyable, that's not a problem with the player, that's a problem with the game.

 

...But having said all that, I don't think it causes the game to be less enjoyable. Even if you rush to get a forge, you're so deficient in other areas that you aren't closer to reaching the "top" than you would have been otherwise.

 

Or close enough, anyways, and TFP are still balancing things.

 

Lmao, you honestly believe the game means the same for everybody? Oh dude, have fun with that. Hint - Almost EVERY time you speak in absolutes, you're wrong.

[Mrjohn1337]

Did you guys manage to sneak in any changes to rwg?

[Hek Harris]

7 Days without HUD

 

I don't know if I was lucky, but I'm currently playing on a beautiful map, very realistic, with a credible and immersive relief.

 

About "beautiful" ... I come back from time to time on the same subject: the ability to hide the HUD easily ... Sorry to insist, but I would love to hide it with a configurable key without the bug that then prevents you from opening containers and forces you to restart the game.

 

(Short vidéo 1'35" :

)

 

I know that the vast majority of players prefer to have as much informations as possible about their character, but as far as I'm concerned, I don't like to play an omniscient android. On the following video, which shows that you can fight without HUD, you can hear perfectly when the character is out of breath or hurt: you did an awesome job on the sound and I think it's great to be content with this type of information.

 

 

Thanks for your attention

 

Edit : Another video where I explore a POI without HUD. At the end, something strange happened, I think it's a bug (or a providential intervention) :

[Sullen Skulls]

Can someone explain to me a little better how the concept of 'Loot Bonus' works in regards to Lucky Looter perk and Lucky goggles. I never really got a chance on my last playthrough to progress properly through it to get a better feel for the system.

All I know is, I had reached level 10 on day 3, had picked Lucky Looter 1 & 2, and was wearing Lucky goggles. I didn't really get a feeling that I was getting any more loot than previous playthroughs, and I was still only looting level 1 & 2 tools/guns/items whenever I did loot speciality crates.

Before I start again on new build, I would like to get a better idea on the functionality of this before deciding on whether or not to spend these perk points this early again. My previous assumption was that if looter 1 & 2, plus lucky goggles is giving me +150 loot bonus, I should be expecting to loot mainly level 2 or 3 items instead of level 1 or 2.

I would like to try this out, as a ruthless scavenger/barter expert style, seems it might be a fun build to experiment with, but if its not working quite as I assumed, then it might be worth concentrating on core basic perks first, and then specialising later.

[Jay_ombie]

I noticed some smaller houses and such have very few zombies in them. If it was intended, thank you. I do like the balance on hard dungeons and little-infested houses. But yeah I love the shift to full on horror.

 

Top horror game this for me. I can't count how many times I jumped out my chair. Haha.

 

Thanks for the speedy build improvements too, you TFP rock.

[Doombringer101]

1) Removes zombie loot from zombies, since 'you don't want to receive crap from zombies', 'you will get good loot once it drops', 'zombies aren't providing you with crap all the time'.

 

2) Kills a zombie, said zombie drops a loot bag.

 

3) Loot bag contains 1 corn meal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can someone explain to me why zombie loot is A) not completely removed, or B) zombie loot actually drops useful/valueable stuff.

 

Unlucky RNG, I was testing higher loot chances for a mod concept but just left the loot tables unchanged.

Some of the loot drops are very decent.

[grrmisfit]

Did you guys manage to sneak in any changes to rwg?

 

nope rwg is still garbage, matter of fact id say its gotten worse. biomes now look like checker boards. one small town could have 3 biomes

[Guppycur]

So y'all gave no level caps a try for what, 10 minutes before returning to the old system?

 

:sadface:

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

nope rwg is still garbage, matter of fact id say its gotten worse. biomes now look like checker boards. one small town could have 3 biomes

 

It's weird but a step in the direction so many if you were clamoring for.

[khzmusik]

OK, sorry, just this last reply and I'll drop it. I'm only replying because I obviously wasn't communicating very well.

 

What is absolutely ridiculous is to do everything in your power to rush through the progression and reach the end by day 5 (as one poster claimed) and.....complain about it. There is nothing in the game forcing anyone to hunt down every zombie (A17) make pointless tunnels to nowhere (A16) or hundreds of never to be used stone axes (A15) for the sole purpose of leveling up as quickly and efficiently as possible.

 

I don't think the complaints are ridiculous (provided the complaints are civil and constructive). The game provides a motivation for progression, and so the players followed the motivation that the game gave them.

 

You just gave a perfect example of this: the "spam crafting" mechanic from A15. No, there was nothing in the game "forcing" anyone to do it, but I'm pretty sure players didn't make hundreds of stone axes because it was their "play style." It was because the game rewarded it.

 

I wasn't around at the time, but I'm betting that a lot of players complained. TFP agreed (rightly IMHO) and that mechanic was removed entirely.

 

It seems they also agreed with the recent complaints about the lack of level gates, and put them back in. I'm actually a bit sad about that, but it's not going to stop me from enjoying the game.

 

Now you just said you like to play efficient and fast and you like it and have no complaints.

 

That is actually not how I play at all. And I have a few complaints. The lack of level gating was not one of them though.

 

Let me ask you this: What if the game dropped all xp gaining from killing zombies and all other activities so that nothing earned xp and instead you just increased a level at the end of each day that you survived. This would mean that no matter what you did or how efficiently you did it you would always level up once per day.

 

That is an awesome idea, and the more I think about it, the more awesome it sounds.

 

I'm completely serious. Think that is even remotely possible to mod in? (I'd enjoy that mod, even if the majority wouldn't.)

[DaVegaNL]

I think the level gates for stage-defining technology is good!