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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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I guess you can cook charred meat and boil water. I can make boiled eggs perk less.

 

make it use and consume a can of water....

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I guess you can cook charred meat and boil water. I can make boiled eggs perk less.

 

MM, or maybe a non-Perked Fryed Egg if you have a cooking pot?

 

Edit: hmm... like the can idea, since no pot required(?) maybe allow the can to be dirty water? Gonna boil it anyway ...?

Edited by FileMachete (see edit history)

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This might be one view but it is not the only view posted by efficiency players over the past couple of years (including back to A15 with its spam crafting mechanic). Besides if you can get to ferals and irradiateds in 5 game days then what's your complaint? You played how you wanted to get to the gamestage you desired. Now play with those tougher enemies and larger hordes.

 

No...by far the largest complaints from your group are that the early game is too boring and grindy because you are gimped as a character and they want to get past the vulnerability part of the game to the invulnerability part of the game as quickly as possible..and then they realize that a game with zero threat and risk is not as fun as they thought it would be...go figure.

 

They say things like the devs are lazy because they keep stretching out the early game instead of adding on even more challenging content to the end. But this is the big lie. If the developers added challenging content that threatened those players they would speed as fast as they could to get past those threats and again feel invulnerable and if they couldn't they would complain that the endgame is......grindy, boring, and unfair.

 

Then they would complain again and say that the new endgame content was no longer endgame and TFP should add on even more endgame content....

 

The game IS the journey from vulnerable to invulnerable and if that journey is not fun for you maybe it isn't the right game for you. Nothing wrong with that. I don't have fun with RTS games and I don't play them. I definitely don't play this one like an RTS...

 

I think we have enough end game content, the only issue is how fast we can get to it.

 

Let's think in a very reasonable middle term way, shall we? Please let me know what you think its just try hard or to be excessively efficient.

 

Considering default settings, for the first lets say 10 levels we can round it up to 10k exp per level, ok?

 

So day 1 you do your basic quests (+4 skill points) and clear one small POI with 6 zombies to spend the night and make your first base.

 

6*550 = 3,3k + 1k trader quest + idk 500 exp from the basics quests

 

5k exp by the end of day 1.

 

I feel it's pretty reasonable in 45 minutes of day light, an average player can clear 2 small POi's. That's what? Around 20 zombies, I think it's a fair number.

 

Also it's pretty reasonable consider a player can fight one wandering horde per day, another what? 10 zombies?

 

So we have 30 zombies kill minimum, by only playing the game. Not power levelling or anything.

 

30 x 550 = 16500 minimum, because some zombies give more exp.

 

By the end of day 2 21500 exp minimum.

 

At day 3, after clear couple poi's a bad player can probably clear 3-4 small poi's.

 

4 small poi's = 40 zombies

1 wandering horde = 10 zombies

 

50 * 550 = 27500

 

By the end of day 3 49k exp, consider couple trees and boulders 50k. So by the end of day 3, we're talking about 9 skill points to spend.

 

Same thing on day 4 and 5 = 55k exp

 

Day 6 we can see some progress and now he can go for a medium size dungeon. How many zombies you think it's reasonable? 25? Plus a medium POi with 12 of them, plus the wandering horde that we fight every day +10 = 47 zombies

 

47 * 550 = 25.8k exp

 

lets add everything: 50k + 55k + 25.8k = 130k

 

So by just playing the game an average dude can be level 13 by the end of day 6. thats 17 skill points.

 

We didnt even consider exp for anything else, like killing/harvesting animais, farming wood, stone, iron, doing any quest, selling anything.

 

So if I say I'll probably be around 20 clearing more POi's per day, I can't see how Im rushing. How Im doing anything wrong besides playing the game?

Edited by Sarsante (see edit history)

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If we are able to speed through early game it must not be that hard of a vulnerability as I normally can get a few forges up and running within a few hours if I really wanted.Heck I did a few trader missions and got steel tools or heavy armor for easy ones. I hate pretty much all games but survival ones. I quit warframe after maxing out everything back then in about 1k hrs for example.I have played rust for 2.5k and ark for 2.5k along with subsistence and subnatica. I am a survival player becuase I want a challenge and early game in most games is not a vulnerability but the easiest time in the game.

 

Need more ammo early game? Kill a vulture for enough arrows to handle most roaming hordes.

Need a good melee to hold out till you can craft better?Use the axe or a club to easily beat most zombies you will see.

Need iron? Smack a few boulders on the surface and youll have the same iron in 20mins that would take you hours underground.

Need food? loot a gas station or shamway or a bigger kitchened POI.

 

I get it, I get it. You don't know how NOT to play excellently. ;)

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Question;

 

Previously there was a 'code(?)' thingy that only supported getting 1 'item' back from a "craft", right?

 

So the Boiled Egg couldn't return the Glass Jar.

 

Not a big deal now based on abundance of Water/Jars I've been seeing, but wondering if that limitation still applies?

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My view:

 

That's a thing though, every game has an end, every single one. How long it takes and what you have to do is what matters. Most people don't keep playing after the end, and most games are not meant for that (most games have a New Game+ with much higher difficulty is all). Due to this, there should always be more in leading up to the end than the end itself. Even MMOs, there's a point you beat every raid and have all the best gear, you finally beat the game, it's done, any more playing gets you no where. Really, end game is also defined by content doable only at max level, which is not here since not many hit max level and the game is still in development. Really end game, currently, would be as SnowDog said, it's when you beat the highest game stage without losing anything hard to make on your base because it won't inherently get harder. At least for easiest definition and one that actually pertains to full end of the game play ability short of wanting to get literally everything in the game or have massive creations.

 

The rest is usually early, mid, late game. I feel like people will rush to late game (steel/military for this case) then hate and get bored of then progressing through levels and days to get to the highest game stage to finally beat the end game. That's at least my take on it all.

 

If there was more to do between starting and getting better gear, people would feel less inclined to rush to late game items. This is where their story line will come in that they are working on. Helps with the dialogue now working and how the new buff system is in place and all. They can now do awesome stuff that will take time. Maybe at some point create those "invulnerable" houses, make it to where you had to do a quest line to get a key that is used to go into this house, when you open this house, you have to clear it of the stronger zombies and once you get to the end, you open a door and it lets loose new zombies out into the world and now have to deal with that. And now you have new zombies that can spawn in biomes, hordes, etc. Doing things like that still gives people freedom to do what they want, but takes longer getting to the end since now quests, dungeons, etc. are now involved to open up to mid to late game. There's so much now they can do and I look forward to it.

 

Or maybe new gear at some point later on? New blocks? I don't know, but even if they don't, this game allows modders to be able to do all these things, and now they just made a game that can be used for hundreds of modders to work into their own game. I just see the possibilities this game can go even now if say TFP decided to quit. I can't wait to see what TFP decides, or Ravenhearts, Valmod, True Survival, etc. They're all fun and each is like it's own game.

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I think we have enough end game content, the only issue is how fast we can get to it.

 

Let's think in a very reasonable middle term way, shall we? Please let me know what you think its just try hard or to be excessively efficient.

 

Considering default settings, for the first lets say 10 levels we can round it up to 10k exp per level, ok?

 

So day 1 you do your basic quests (+4 skill points) and clear one small POI with 6 zombies to spend the night and make your first base.

 

6*550 = 3,3k + 1k trader quest + idk 500 exp from the basics quests

 

5k exp by the end of day 1.

 

I feel it's pretty reasonable in 45 minutes of day light, an average player can clear 2 small POi's. That's what? Around 20 zombies, I think it's a fair number.

 

Also it's pretty reasonable consider a player can fight one wandering horde per day, another what? 10 zombies?

 

So we have 30 zombies kill minimum, by only playing the game. Not power levelling or anything.

 

30 x 550 = 16500 minimum, because some zombies give more exp.

 

By the end of day 2 21500 exp minimum.

 

At day 3, after clear couple poi's a bad player can probably clear 3-4 small poi's.

 

4 small poi's = 40 zombies

1 wandering horde = 10 zombies

 

50 * 550 = 27500

 

By the end of day 3 49k exp, consider couple trees and boulders 50k. So by the end of day 3, we're talking about 9 skill points to spend.

 

Same thing on day 4 and 5 = 55k exp

 

Day 6 we can see some progress and now he can go for a medium size dungeon. How many zombies you think it's reasonable? 25? Plus a medium POi with 12 of them, plus the wandering horde that we fight every day +10 = 47 zombies

 

47 * 550 = 25.8k exp

 

lets add everything: 50k + 55k + 25.8k = 130k

 

So by just playing the game an average dude can be level 13 by the end of day 6. thats 17 skill points.

 

We didnt even consider exp for anything else, like killing/harvesting animais, farming wood, stone, iron, doing any quest, selling anything.

 

So if I say I'll probably be around 20 clearing more POi's per day, I can't see how Im rushing. How Im doing anything wrong besides playing the game?

 

Not wrong. You are playing correctly for you except that you aren't happy with it.

 

I have never cleared 2 POI's on my first day. I usually take over the first one I come to which is usually one of the trashy non-level designed wilderness houses. I improve the upper floor and remove access to it, finish up my quest by placing a fireplace, replacing my bedroll, and crafting a chest to empty everything into. Then I spend the rest of the day gathering basic materials.

 

Day 2 I travel to the trader and often skip zombies I encounter in the wilderness. I hunt every animal I come across to the trader and back again to my initial camp. Then I start exploring outward and scavenging in POI's. I do not hunt down and kill every zombie. I let wandering hordes move past. When threatened I kill to defend. I also start working on making flagstone blocks in anticipation of my first base.

 

I usually stay in the first house until after Day 7 which pretty much hoses it. Then I move closer to the trader and build my own base. Week 2 is getting that base ready. I am usually level 8-10 by Day 7 and having a great time. I have zero complaints about my pacing or what the game throws at me. The game plays out like an apocalyptic story or an episode of The Walking Dead. But playing like this....letting zombies go by....would probably drive you crazy, eh? :)

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I get it, I get it. You don't know how NOT to play excellently. ;)

 

Na,I ♥♥♥♥ up at times as we are all not perfect but still early game is the easiest becuase its not hard to advance from a lump of wood and a bow. lol ps fun challenge,try to make lv10 with only using bone shiv as a weapon....gotta say that was fun yet annoying.

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I don't think the developers need to listen to ANYONE who rushes as quickly as possible to power level under whatever system is in place. If you are at endgame "before day 10 and bored by day 20" with the current system then there is nothing that is going to please you. Arbitrary level gates restrict freedom. Even when they were in we had people who power leveled as fast as possible saying that by level 100 on day 30 the game was over.

 

Let people who are going to focus on level ascension through grinding zombies (A17) or mining (A16) or crafting (A15) do what they want to do and be bored with their choice. It is their choice to play that way and it is their choice to complain about it. For those who just play the game and who do not focus on leveling up every moment, the game is still a pleasant journey through the progression. My game is largely unchanged from when we had level gates to what we have now as far as speed of progression. The only difference is more choices and the ability to specialize early game which is a huge plus.

 

The current system is good for team play and it is also good for solo play as long as the player isn't in a rush to get to the top. It allows for specializing early on so that your playthrough can be different each time and your character build can have strengths and weaknesses. All I see is people wanting to completely avoid weaknesses and to get to God level strengths in all areas and then complain that it only took them one week of game time to do it.

 

I guarantee that those players probably burned through the last dozen games they played. Let them move on and burn through a dozen more and not be a factor in forcing everyone else who plays it at the pace of a level or 2 per game day get shafted.

 

That is my opinion.

 

+1 this

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if anything, make it always night, put zombies on only nightmare, put on insane..... you know, that'd be an awesome 7DtD series to watch, lol.

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Not wrong. You are playing correctly for you except that you aren't happy with it.

 

I have never cleared 2 POI's on my first day. I usually take over the first one I come to which is usually one of the trashy non-level designed wilderness houses. I improve the upper floor and remove access to it, finish up my quest by placing a fireplace, replacing my bedroll, and crafting a chest to empty everything into. Then I spend the rest of the day gathering basic materials.

 

Day 2 I travel to the trader and often skip zombies I encounter in the wilderness. I hunt every animal I come across to the trader and back again to my initial camp. Then I start exploring outward and scavenging in POI's. I do not hunt down and kill every zombie. I let wandering hordes move past. When threatened I kill to defend. I also start working on making flagstone blocks in anticipation of my first base.

 

I usually stay in the first house until after Day 7 which pretty much hoses it. Then I move closer to the trader and build my own base. Week 2 is getting that base ready. I am usually level 8-10 by Day 7 and having a great time. I have zero complaints about my pacing or what the game throws at me. The game plays out like an apocalyptic story or an episode of The Walking Dead. But playing like this....letting zombies go by....would probably drive you crazy, eh? :)

 

I am not saying your wrong there but your more of a builder than me.I normally dont work on my base till about halfway through day 6 or early day 7.I normally clear every zombie i can in stores to get loot then around a hour or two game time before night I clear a roof or a random poi to stay in over night. during the night I throw down a few boxes and a couple fires with a few frames to block off main access. day 2-6 is clearing POIs and looking around for a nice spot to setup during the days/farming resources at night. by day 7 I am normally lv20ish and with a decent melee/ranged weapon like machete or sledge depending on trade with a comp bow and starting to build a makeshift horde base with some wood blocks on side or top of a POI that doesnt spawn good loot.

 

A16 I was a builder like you and would build huge horde bases by day 28 lol

Edited by 9nines (see edit history)

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Why do zombies in a jump throw their hands like Shaolin monks?

It's looks stupid, and has no relation to the real jumps.

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Why do zombies in a jump throw their hands like Shaolin monks?

It's looks stupid, and has no relation to the real jumps.

 

I started calling em spider monkeys lol watch ricky bobby and see why

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Not wrong. You are playing correctly for you except that you aren't happy with it.

 

I have never cleared 2 POI's on my first day. I usually take over the first one I come to which is usually one of the trashy non-level designed wilderness houses. I improve the upper floor and remove access to it, finish up my quest by placing a fireplace, replacing my bedroll, and crafting a chest to empty everything into. Then I spend the rest of the day gathering basic materials.

 

...etc...

 

I play this way also (whether SP or co-op) for the most part, tho in my current world I couldn't find a good cabin POI so I'm on the roof of an (uncleared) elementary school on day 2. It feels safe. Ish. I know the building beneath me is teeming with trouble. Probably bears.

 

I am not saying your wrong there but your more of a builder than me.I normally dont work on my base till about halfway through day 6 or early day 7.I normally clear every zombie i can in stores to get loot then around a hour or two game time before night I clear a roof or a random poi to stay in over night. during the night I throw down a few boxes and a couple fires with a few frames to block off main access. day 2-6 is clearing POIs ...

 

This is a more combat-oriented play style, and you would gain many more levels than I would, day-by-day. The "medium" playstyle that Sarsante outlined seems even more combat/POI oriented. No wonder he gets levels so quickly. I spend half a day chopping trees and whacking boulders (and avoiding most zombies) so I can improve (a leeetle bit) my first POI base. He's out cleansing the world of the zombie infestation instead.

 

Really, yours/Sarsante's play style makes a great co-op partner to my play style. Especially with shared XP set to 1KM. :-) And of course with non-level-gated attributes so we can specialize in what we wanna do.

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Why do zombies in a jump throw their hands like Shaolin monks?

It's looks stupid, and has no relation to the real jumps.

 

Well..

That would be because..

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Typically I play 60 min days, 18 hours daylight. Scavenge POIs during light hours to see inside, so typically from 0600 (first 2 hours are still quite dark inside buildings) to 2000. Then harvest and build at night for the other 8 hours. I still seem to lvl fast and be able to build what I want and need too.

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This is a more combat-oriented play style, and you would gain many more levels than I would, day-by-day. The "medium" playstyle that Sarsante outlined seems even more combat/POI oriented. No wonder he gets levels so quickly. I spend half a day chopping trees and whacking boulders (and avoiding most zombies) so I can improve (a leeetle bit) my first POI base. He's out cleansing the world of the zombie infestation instead.

 

Really, yours/Sarsante's play style makes a great co-op partner to my play style. Especially with shared XP set to 1KM. :-) And of course with non-level-gated attributes so we can specialize in what we wanna do.

 

Yeah I dont care at all building a base at the start, I just go to a roof and that's my starting base.

 

Also I don't think Im combat oriented, I'm loot oriented. To get the loot I need to clear the POI. If I dont kill the wandering horde they will enter the POi and I'll be in a bad spot between the zombies POI and the wandering horde. Or they're close to my building and they eventually will smash some blocks below my roof and I don't want that, so I kill them. I let them pass during night time, because I don't feel the risk of dying worth it.

 

So I'm not actively looking for zombies to kill and level up, i'm actively clearing POI's.

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You know there's a setting to adjust the hours of night in relation to the hours of daylight? If night on a server is boring that's down to a choice at world creation, not a design flaw.

 

Yea but then you end getting daylight at 2am or earlier and it stays dark. I miss the old days when you adjusted it and night just ticked away faster.

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What if I have a mining light on before getting on the bicycle? Will that still give light like headlights?

 

It works now but the light doesn't reach very far at all so you need to go slow to avoid obstacles at least until the night lightens up around midnight or so.

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I play this way also (whether SP or co-op) for the most part, tho in my current world I couldn't find a good cabin POI so I'm on the roof of an (uncleared) elementary school on day 2. It feels safe. Ish. I know the building beneath me is teeming with trouble. Probably bears.

 

 

 

This is a more combat-oriented play style, and you would gain many more levels than I would, day-by-day. The "medium" playstyle that Sarsante outlined seems even more combat/POI oriented. No wonder he gets levels so quickly. I spend half a day chopping trees and whacking boulders (and avoiding most zombies) so I can improve (a leeetle bit) my first POI base. He's out cleansing the world of the zombie infestation instead.

 

Really, yours/Sarsante's play style makes a great co-op partner to my play style. Especially with shared XP set to 1KM. :-) And of course with non-level-gated attributes so we can specialize in what we wanna do.

True but for some reason when I MP I get ♥♥♥♥ FPS lol Im more like sarsante but ive had a roaming horde drop a building I was in due to the bug where the building floats lol the shamway factory, clearing it out and next second i hear clink clinck.turns out a horde had got under the building and dropped about half of it without me knowing.

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The dungeon style makes me have to stop and think more how I'd want to proceed. Then if a wandering horde pops up, it becomes even more intense than before. Or when trying to run away, make a wrong turn, now you're in a bathroom or a dead end room. Now it's, crap, I NEED OUT, and now scrambling to rectify that wrong turn.

 

This. So much this. It can be easy to get turned around and get stuck in a corner.

 

-----------

 

You know, as I read through this conversation about endgame and speedsters, I think of Super Mario Bros. You could get to the final boss in World 8 very quickly if you used all the warps, but then you missed all of the worlds in-between. If your goal was to beat the game, good job, but you missed a lot of the content that you were meant to enjoy. "But why did they put in the warps if we weren't meant to use them?" Maybe it was their way of giving players the freedom to play how they wanted. Some wanted to beat the game as quickly as possible, but then they were bored. Well, at least the game company got their money first. For those who wanted to enjoy all of the content that the makers created, they got to do that as well (and probably had a better time).

 

Just some thoughts.

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This. So much this. It can be easy to get turned around and get stuck in a corner.

 

-----------

 

You know, as I read through this conversation about endgame and speedsters, I think of Super Mario Bros. You could get to the final boss in World 8 very quickly if you used all the warps, but then you missed all of the worlds in-between. If your goal was to beat the game, good job, but you missed a lot of the content that you were meant to enjoy. "But why did they put in the warps if we weren't meant to use them?" Maybe it was their way of giving players the freedom to play how they wanted. Some wanted to beat the game as quickly as possible, but then they were bored. Well, at least the game company got their money first. For those who wanted to enjoy all of the content that the makers created, they got to do that as well (and probably had a better time).

 

Just some thoughts.

 

While I agree to your premise,I kinda disagree with the wording.Speedsters are not skipping the content,we are just progressing fast enough we dont spend a couple hours just getting a base for example.We spend at most a couple mins to toss stuff down then we instantly go out to explore the new content aka dungeons or quests.I knew a speedster that had 2 turrets on his base within the first horde night becuase he was farming the trader quests or another that was full steel armor with a lv6 sledge litterally standing in the open on first horde night slaughtering it. I prefer to bomb them with mollies when they group and melee them until it gets too hairy then pull out pistol or shotgun and thin the horde so to speak

 

Normally for looting I go for military bases first for a chance at rockets to sell or aks then its gun stores or tool stores or barns/those half demoed buildings with gun safes.by day 4 on a good playthrough Ive made around 15k dukes selling off what I dont use.

Edited by 9nines (see edit history)

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Why do zombies in a jump throw their hands like Shaolin monks?

It's looks stupid, and has no relation to the real jumps.

 

Because you are in the matrix...or a swimming pool...

 

i15CW5F.jpg

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While I agree to your premise,I kinda disagree with the wording.Speedsters are not skipping the content,we are just progressing fast enough we dont spend a couple hours just getting a base for example.We spend at most a couple mins to toss stuff down then we instantly go out to explore the new content aka dungeons or quests.I knew a speedster that had 2 turrets on his base within the first horde night becuase he was farming the trader quests or another that was full steel armor with a lv6 sledge litterally standing in the open on first horde night slaughtering it. I prefer to bomb them with mollies when they group and melee them until it gets too hairy then pull out pistol or shotgun and thin the horde so to speak

 

Normally for looting I go for military bases first for a chance at rockets to sell or aks then its gun stores or tool stores or barns/those half demoed buildings with gun safes.by day 4 on a good playthrough Ive made around 15k dukes selling off what I dont use.

 

But there was a skip. Your friend skipped facing that first horde fighting from a simple base made out of wood or cobblestone and some spikes and him with a bow and arrow trying to soften up and kill as many as he could. The fear as he started getting low on arrows and realized that there were still too many zombies and they would collapse his base unless he jumped down and did his best to run around and try and melee them or at least lead them away. Maybe if he were prepared he'd have a secondary fall back place to run to.

 

Nope that was all skipped by twin turrets that probably decimated that first little horde before it could get within 10 meters of his base's walls.

 

People who race and get concrete and turrets and are 300% safe by that first 7 day horde warp past a lot of thrills and..... I don't complain of boredom while they do.

Edited by Roland (see edit history)

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Because you are in the matrix...or a swimming pool...

 

i15CW5F.jpg

 

 

Chip: I can't hold my tongue. These kids are my grandchildren and you are raising them wrong. They are *terrible* boys!

 

Walker: Shut up, Chip, or I'll go ape-♥♥♥♥ on your ass!

 

Texas Ranger: I'm gonna scissor-kick you in the back of the head!

 

Cal Naughton, Jr.: Yeah!

 

Ricky Bobby: Yeah! Now turn up the heat!

 

Cal Naughton, Jr.: Go on and get some, boys!

 

Ricky Bobby: Come on!

 

Walker: I'm ten years old, but I'll beat your ass!

 

Texas Ranger: Chip, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!

 

Cal Naughton, Jr.: Like a spider monkey! Go on!

 

Ricky Bobby: Chip, you brought this on, man.

 

Walker: Greatest Generation my ass. Tom Brokaw's a punk!

 

Chip: What is wrong with you?

 

Texas Ranger: Chip, I'm all jacked up on Mountain Dew!

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