Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, Arma Rex said:

Exciting. I assume then a good chunk of the work on bandits has been complete

Yes. They're releasing A22 next week, didn't you know?

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[the_envenom]

21 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Yes. They're releasing A22 next week, didn't you know?

 

WATTTTTTT X____^

[beerfly]

18 minutes ago, the_envenom said:

WATTTTTTT X____^

Don`t worry. If not, it is Jost`s fault and we will repeat it to him for the rest of his life. 

[falloutcloud]

On 7/13/2023 at 2:22 PM, Zombiepoptard said:

so you  think the skipping/ missing frames of the recoil is acceptable?

You think the 2d plan of gun sway is acceptable? 

You think that having your running animation be the bobbing of everything in your hand is ok as oppose to every fps doing the tuck and run.

Every game with melee animations at least have 2 animation one swing from the left to right. 

I'm not asking for much. I'm asking for bare minimum standards to be realized. 

I'm thinking you got way to comfortable with what the game is that any added compared standards of what an fps should be is just something that "would be a plus" at most.

 

When I first heard about TFP updating graphics to HD I didn't really care at the time. I do now though. Trying to play an earlier alpha reminds me how far visually the game has come and I much prefer how it is now. Things like this I believe are reasonable asks. I believe it will add to the games visual appeal. It's not a game changer but since TFP is already working on the character models why not work on this too?

[Sephiroth87xz]

On 7/13/2023 at 10:43 AM, meganoth said:

 

There is no requirement in the forum to post complete solutions to the whole balance problem 😉.

 

The idea isn't without drawbacks as well as the player would be forced to go through "low-level" POIs again just to reach higher tiers. Probably the walk through the lower tiers would have to be shortened once you finished them once to not make this a grind.

 

I think is better for Developers to fix the whole unbalanced situation of trader/quest/loot, because the problem is the same.

 

Too high quality/tier weapons/tool are avaible too soon.

 

This break totally the difficulty balance.

 

Is a problem spread across multiple systems, for this i think is better for Developers to work for an overall solution.

On 7/13/2023 at 1:25 PM, RipClaw said:

It works for you and your playstyle, but that doesn't mean it works for everyone in every situation. A player who doesn't loot, or loots very little, will progress slowly or not at all with the magazine system. Someone who does nothing but looting will progress quickly.

It also depends on how many opportunities you have to find magazines. The more loot containers you have that could potentially hold a magazine, the faster you will progress. Looting a crack a book can give you a huge boost in progress. If you have a town with a lot of mailboxes and news dispensers, you will also progress faster than if you have a town that does not.

 

By difficulty system, you probably mean the gamestage. The difficulty settings have no effect on the gamestage. In the calculation for the gamestage there used to be a multiplier that changes with the difficulty setting but that was changed some time ago and set to a fixed value of 1.2.

 

What was added in A21 is the biome bonus and biome multiplier for the gamestage calculation.

 

If you want to have a hard game that relies mainly on your crafting skills then I would suggest that you change the loot settings to at least 50%, don't do any quests and don't put any points into Daring Adventurer.

They always do until 7 Days goes gold and maybe even beyond. But they never said that the balancing will be based on the crafting skills as you seem to imagine.

 

The traderstage, lootstage and the gamestage have the player level as a common element in the calculation. It can therefore be assumed that this is the central anchor point. But the crafting skills are not bound to the player level. This is based solely on the magazines you read.

 

The quest rewards are a different story. These are basically a special loot group per quest tier and per quest type. Here the balancing could be more about the rewards being appropriate for the quest tier and the quest type. Less relevant could be that they match the gamestage, lootstage or traderstage.

 

No, I think they will continue to balance the game based on telemetry data but not necessarily in the way you imagine. You seem to see crafting as a central element but my impression is that the developers see looting as a central element of the game.

 

Whether they will change the quest rewards much remains to be seen. If they do, they will probably tie the quest reward to the lootstage and not to the crafting skills of the player but cap it based on the quest tier.

 

 

 

Not really with magazine you progress in line with the difficulty system.

 

Are traders/loot/quest to break the actual difficulty system, giving too soon too high quality/tier of weapons and tools.

 

Not only gamestage, the difficulty you choice before start the game change the overall difficulty to raising damage and so on.

 

The problem is if you use trader/loot/quests you will break everything easily at max difficulty.

 

This is the error i see in some comments, a game need to be balanced overall, you don't need to change setting to fix the normal balance of the game(i not used daring adventure perk)

 

The crafting system is central to understand how developers want the progression to work, if you read the comment you will see Developers talked of not overlapping of tiers of weapons, magazine system fixed this thing for developers was a problem.

 

Now traders/loot/quests have this exact problem too.

 

You think Developers wanted to fix this only the crafting progression?

 

And want to leave the same problem for traders/loot/quests?

 

Would be a seriously strange way of balance a game to leave 3 progression systems of the game to break the difficulty system.

 

I think you should understand is a problem when a game have a progression system which break the difficulty system and 7 days to die actually have 3 system to break it, traders, loot and quests.

 

I doubt Developers don't want to solve this problem and they already find a working solution with magazine for crafting, now they will need to apply the same base idea of balancing to traders/loot/quests.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Sephiroth87xz (see edit history)

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Sephiroth87xz said:

Not really with magazine you progress in line with the difficulty system.

Maybe for you.  Crafting doesn't progress with game stage for me at all except in early game.  Otherwise, it is far behind. 

 

That is the point being made by people.  Balance for one person is not balance for another person who plays the game differently.

[meganoth]

18 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

Imagine trying to explain Dark Souls to a new player.  Yet Elden Ring is a smash hit.  Same story with Terraria or even Valheim.  Those chew new players up and kill them until they learn.  We went through 10 years of coddling gamers and pretending they are idiots.  The average gamer is 30+ years old, their kids likely game or can get help, and youtube tutorials are everywhere.  There are also plenty of "noob friendly" games to play if someone wants simple stuff in the genre.

Gaming is thankfully moving out of the phase where we assume every new player is a brain dead invalid.  Much like Elden Ring you can play 7DTD without understanding all the nuances and do the loops, you'll learn the nuances in time.  Your average player didn''t know the nuances of Apex Legends or Fortnite or DOTA 2 or Rust or etc.  They just enjoy those games anyways and learn as they go.

 

If my point was about difficulty, you would be right. But it isn't.

 

It is about internal mechanisms (how loot tables are set up) bleeding out to the actual game and creating solutions that can not be understood from observing the game world.

 

To understand it someone has to tell the new player how the loot is internally distributed to the containers. I would assume an intelligent novice would understand this immediately if it is explained, but he would complain about a weird illogical system that can't really be deduced from playing the game. You actually need to study the xml for that.

 

[Jost Amman]

I think the devs will be happy to read this post on Steam.

Congrats! 

 

Spoiler

@madmole @faatal @Laz Man @schwanz9000

 

[Zombiepoptard]

This community has probably been filtered by the game to not care about the gun play and more about the other stuff that this game does well. If you cared about the gun play this game would look like hot garbage. I honestly can't defend this game in that aspect. The game has grown from a really shotty unplayable state and overtime the devs have been through multiple tiers of quality stages to get it where it is now. There's many more stages for the game to fulfill it's potential and the gun play is one of them. This game has a unique ambition but in the pursuit it may have them neglecting basic elements of what makes a game good. 

[Gazz]

IMO the gunplay is okay but not nearly on the level of games that do nothing but.

 

My only issue there is that someone at TFP hates the agility attribute and all the agility firearms get shafted on both drop rate and mod slots.

I changed that in my game but it's still one of those weird people issues.

[meilodasreh]

I don't like how arrows tend to slip by left and right of them, missing so closely that you think it bugged out.

We all had these moments where you just can't get a hit despite your crosshair is spot on,

and afterwards you find your two to three arrows in the wall behind, didn't we?

Edited July 16, 2023 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

13 hours ago, Zombiepoptard said:

This community has probably been filtered by the game to not care about the gun play and more about the other stuff that this game does well. If you cared about the gun play this game would look like hot garbage.

What exactly do you mean by gun play? I know that the sights on the weapons are not aligned to the point where the crosshairs are.
Is that what you mean? Firearms and shooter games are not really my thing. So I don't really know much about that.

 

[Roland]

2 hours ago, RipClaw said:

Is that what you mean? Firearms and shooter games are not really my thing. So I don't really know much about that.

 

You just outed yourself as being one who passed through the filter!!! 😜

[Aldranon]

Very few shooter games are even close to realistic.

To get that "rock steady" sight picture that are in most shooters you need to be prone and use the gun's sling in various ways.

Then you use your breathing to make the fine aiming adjustments.

 

So, who wants that in a game??

[RipClaw]

18 minutes ago, Aldranon said:

So, who wants that in a game??

It would be a fitting addition to Tarkov 😉

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Yopo]

Did they nerf the magnum or buff the DV cause looking at their base dmg 80 for the m and 130 for the dv at q6, no mods. I feel this is backwards now when you consider the magnum has a limited magazine size, low rof, and slow reload while the dv had a fast reload, 3-5 time the magazine limit (and can be modded for more) and a high rof. Just seems odd to me that with those in mind the dv would have a higher base dmg then a magnum. Makes more since to me if that dmg was swapped on the two. 

[Zombiepoptard]

4 hours ago, Roland said:

 

You just outed yourself as being one who passed through the filter!!! 😜

I'm a very critical person and even though I like the overall game I will seek out what needs work. (with all games) I know your just messing with me but that's my answer to your response.

[gpcstargate]

Don't Know if this is intended to be ... but there is an issue zombie's getting over the Trader Walls ... has happen in 3 different game I have been playing so far ... and ... I don't know if anyone else has this issue or has reported it.

I'm thinking since they climb now ... You need to raise the walls to 4 high and then add barbwire.

Edited July 16, 2023 by gpcstargate (see edit history)

[WarWren]

Awesome update TFP

 

-New lighting is subtle but fantastic.

 

-Random gen is great. My current map is flawless. Roads are believable and even scenic now.  The new and updated POI'S and art make a huge difference to this. It's fantastic for a random voxel world.

 

-Learning from magazines just makes sense  and fixes the class based bottlenecks. The amount of magazines could be adjusted vs rarity or the introduction of tiered books as in Project Zomboid. Its works though.

 

-The perception class is a worthy class- specifically because of the spears ability to hit through multiple zeds and the salvage perk  which has become much more useful with the less abundant gas. 

 

More raw resources in POIs by way of pallets is a good thing but I still don't like the amount of it in containers and cupboards and the like . It's still a junk lootfest in those. Loot could be more sparse and tied to more specific common sense containers. 

 

This is my opinion, the game is still great though.

 

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

Faatal I have a question.

 

I play sp, offline, and like to explore, the only thing that makes it seem long is the
stamina-exertion running from one city to the next and back again, I do sometimes use
the bicycle, motorized vehicles i use very late game.

 

The question I wanted to ask, Is it possible to have the food, stamina, be tied into events
instead of just with movement? By this i mean, if a player is taking a cross map jaunt, but
is not engaged in crafting and/or not set to positive on the ai awareness meter, can these
be made temporarily inactive.

 

When a player, would do any action other than running, it would activate. If not made

completely inactive, then the prequalifiers could possibly be added to a CVAR to adjust

and lower usage for times of minimal interactivity.

[Riamus]

17 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

I don't like how arrows tend to slip by left and right of them, missing so closely that you think it bugged out.

We all had these moments where you just can't get a hit despite your crosshair is spot on,

and afterwards you find your two to three arrows in the wall behind, didn't we?

Arrows have a chance to hit anywhere within the circle shown, regardless where the crosshair is pointed.  Add in drop as well and it's possible to miss even if you're a good aim.

 

11 hours ago, Yopo said:

Did they nerf the magnum or buff the DV cause looking at their base dmg 80 for the m and 130 for the dv at q6, no mods. I feel this is backwards now when you consider the magnum has a limited magazine size, low rof, and slow reload while the dv had a fast reload, 3-5 time the magazine limit (and can be modded for more) and a high rof. Just seems odd to me that with those in mind the dv would have a higher base dmg then a magnum. Makes more since to me if that dmg was swapped on the two. 

I don't think there was any real change there.  DV is higher tier than Magnum and should do more damage regardless of changes to fire rate or ammo capacity.  If they weren't the same type of weapon and were the same tier, then I'd probably agree.  But since they are the same type of weapon (handgun) and different tiers, the base damage should be higher.

5 hours ago, gpcstargate said:

Don't Know if this is intended to be ... but there is an issue zombie's getting over the Trader Walls ... has happen in 3 different game I have been playing so far ... and ... I don't know if anyone else has this issue or has reported it.

I'm thinking since they climb now ... You need to raise the walls to 4 high and then add barbwire.

Yeah, I've seen them climb the walls at Jen's as well.  Even with only 1 zombie, they seem to get onto the angled cement along the walls and jump up onto the walls.  They really shouldn't be able to do that.

[Kalex]

Anybody else having multiple trader waypoints added to your map that you cannot delete? Every time a shared quest gets removed for whatever reason other than successful completion (logout, quest activated while you were out of range, death) on our dedi, the quest gets removed but the waypoint to the trader it added does not get removed from the waypoint list and you cannot manually delete it.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Kalex (see edit history)

[Roland]

Personally, I’d love for an option to turn off the trader compound protection which would enable zombies to punch through the walls. So the fact that they can occasionally pile up and pyramid over the walls is great. I don’t view it as a bug or something that shouldn’t happen. I wish the pyramid effect was more intentional and factored into their pathing rather than just being random and happenstance. 

[meilodasreh]

2 hours ago, Riamus said:

Arrows have a chance to hit anywhere within the circle shown, regardless where the crosshair is pointed.  Add in drop as well and it's possible to miss even if you're a good aim.

I only see a crosshair, there is no additional circle shown to me.

Anyway, I know what you mean, and yes I know that, but I still think it happens a bit too regularly that I miss a zombie that is only a few blocks away, because of the "anywhere within the crosshair" thingy.

And that's distances where the zombie head more or less fills up the entire "circle", and arrow drop hasn't really started to take effect.

Handguns feel much more accurate, but no noticeable difference considering the crosshair.

Yes maybe I'm just a bad aim, but I think it would be no harm if bow aiming would be slightly adjusted towards better accuracy...well except for the zombies I guess 😀

Edited July 17, 2023 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[Sephiroth87xz]

On 7/15/2023 at 6:36 PM, Riamus said:

Maybe for you.  Crafting doesn't progress with game stage for me at all except in early game.  Otherwise, it is far behind. 

 

That is the point being made by people.  Balance for one person is not balance for another person who plays the game differently.

The base progression is the same for all players.

 

And personally i keeping it even more slow than normal, not searching specific PoI for advance more quickly in crafting station and similar.

 

Crafting/Magazine system is working really good with the difficulty progression, specially if you think i played for 20/25 days to one difficulty below the max and to 60+ with the max difficulty.

 

Damage of my weapons, knife and pistol was always in line with the zombie health.

 

Instead with weapons offered by traders and quests rewards the damage was too high, breaking the difficulty progression, so i scrapped them and started to ignore every weapons offered.

 

Loot seems a bit more balanced even if the magnum founded around on 30-40 days not remember anymore precisely, was no doubt too soon and i find too much times weapons outside of knife and pistols with too much high quality.

 

And this is all on near or max difficulty.

 

 

Traders/quests/loot simple need to be balanced in way to have a similar progression like magazine/crafting, so they will be more in line with the difficulty progression.