MechanicalLens Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 The concept of 1 quest per day at the trader would be a fantastic change in my opinion and it should have honestly been done when quests were first introduced in A17, but better late than never. It makes absolutely no sense that a trader would offer you multiple quests to complete on a daily basis. Realism aside, this would also be great for balancing, especially early game when there is limited items to sell. If there's a coveted item that you really want, either give up hope, or explore to find a new town and take a quest from another trader to earn those dukes. This would also greatly encourage players to go deep into Better Barter & Daring Adventurer. I know the goal of this isn't to crush "evil spam questing" lol. But honestly, I'm not a fan of spam questers - I've only been doing 1, max 2 quests from a trader per day for a couple playthroughs now, and I find it to be a better experience overall. Also, acquiring a bicycle is far too easy right now. I'm hearing people getting that reward from the trader on the morning of day 2, which is ridiculous. This cancels out the gameplay path of crafting one yourself because, why would you? @Roland For people who are against this change, I propose a compromise of sorts. Perhaps an additional bonus to the Daring Adventurer perk would be the ability to take two jobs from the same trader per day? It could be locked behind rank 2 or even rank 3 out of 4. Alternatively, perhaps the player could accept multiple quests per day from a trader, but just one per tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalagar Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 1 minute ago, MechanicalLens said: It makes absolutely no sense that a trader would offer you multiple quests to complete on a daily basis. Have you never heard of a quest board? A staple of RPGs since like, the dawn of mankind. Why would it not make sense that the trader has more than one place he wants you to go clear out a day? "It would be nice if Walmart was cleared out so I could go get some stuff from there, although if the Burger King was cleared out I could get my favorite straws, and well if the hardware store was clear I could go get a new tire for my lawnmower . . ." 4 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said: If there's a coveted item that you really want, either give up hope, or explore to find a new town and take a quest from another trader to earn those dukes. Wut, how does it impact that at all. There's literally zero chance you've fully cleared any decently sized entire town early game even if you are ignoring quests and only checking buildings all day for the first week. Currently if there's an item you really want, you look for it while doing quest PoI, or you go raid higher tier PoI that are above your quest level. With 1 quest a day you would look for it while doing your one quest, then go raid higher tier PoI, exactly the same, except you'd just have less incentive to bother with any low tier PoI without quest rewards so you would ignore anything that didn't look dangerous enough to have good loot. 8 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said: This would also greatly encourage players to go deep into Better Barter & Daring Adventurer. Less quests -> Less rewards -> less incentive to go for a perk that makes rewards better More quests -> more rewards -> more incentive to go for a perk that makes rewards better Less rewards -> Less loot to sell -> Less incentive to go for a perk that makes items more valuable to sell More rewards -> More loot to sell -> more incentive to go for a perk that makes items more valuable to sell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! May all your dreams come true and Santa gives you a sock full of coal!! What? At the price of coal these days, load it up Santa!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechanicalLens Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 Alyeska wishes you a very Happy Mousemas. It's her first one. 🐭 Merry Christmas to all of the devs and everyone on these forums! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmodloader Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 Finished my first A20 horde night, 64 zombie setting, 300% block damage, it seemed surprisingly easy to stay in one spot, zombies don't seem to know what to do when you're on a tower with entrances blocked, they ended up attacking a nearby building instead of the supports for the one I was standing on. Are there any plans to make the AI target structural support if they can't get to you on horde night? Or is this the plan till gold? Well the first horde night being intro to them would make sense, I just wonder if it'll be easy from here on out still. Already on tier 3s playing permadeath though so I am not sure when the difficulty will ramp up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Al Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 2 hours ago, pregnable said: Have you guys ever talked about moving rule 1 cardio back into the agility tree? I like fortitude as well, so it does not really matter, but if cardio were in agility, it would probably be my perfect insane nightmare attribute, when I do not feel like going strength first. It's probably more useful with an agility playstyle, but it still seems a really niche perk. I don't think it would be overpowered if it just gave a flat 10% stamina regen bonus per point, and it would be a hell of a lot more useful. 10% regen would compare pretty fairly with sex rex (gives 8/15% stamina spend reduction plus bonus stamina on kills), and master chef (gives a 15% stamina regen bonus but you have to actually make the tea). 10 hours ago, Roland said: The few of us who play together have talked about quests and whether it might be a good idea to have a 1-job limit per trader per day. It would slow down the questing a bit as well as encourage people to spread their work around to all the traders. Right now if you find a new trader they only offer T1 quests so you’d rather just work for your first trader. But if you can only do one job for your trader then you might feel better doing a T1 at the next trader as a bonus. Interested to know how that goes when you try it out. A good middle ground might be if traders don't reset their quest list every day, they just add one quest to each tier list. Or add one to the most empty tier list if refilling all the tiers is going to prove no restriction in reality. That way you're still encouraged to shop around because a trader can get low on jobs or clogged up with stuff you don't want to do, but you don't have to run around the traders every day in order to do multiple quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_ombie Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 6 hours ago, Roland said: There is a subway station with the outgoing and incoming tunnels all caved in. It is part of one of the tiles for the downtown area. There are not long underground tunnels to explore. Technically could have been the caves that we no longer have ... I miss under ground caverns, I suppose we have the POI underground stuff I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 12 hours ago, Tmodloader said: Does living off the land 2 (50% for one more crop) stack with living off the land 3? (triple crops). If not then that means you break even if you craft seeds on living off the land 2 right? Only profit if you get perk rank 3? I thought living off the land gave 2, 3, 4 crops which means you'd begin to profit at rank 2. No. Living of the Land 1 already means profit since you get 4 crops + 1/2 seed. That is the equivalent of 6.5 crops return on average and a 1.5 crops net gain LotL 2 bonus does not stack with LotL 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmodloader Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 Just now, meganoth said: No. Living of the Land 1 already means profit since you get 4 crops + 1/2 seed. That is the equivalent of 6.5 crops return on average and a 1.5 crops net gain LotL 2 bonus does not stack with LotL 3. I had forgotten crops give 2 plants so I was going by description, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 19 hours ago, Kosmic Kerman said: Maybe but they seem to be the only option for weapon/tool progression until late in the game. I'm on day 31 (60 min days, 100 XP) and all of my weapons except a crafted SMG are from Trader rewards or Trader purchase (a Q4 pistol bought in the first week) and most of my tools are from the trader as well. Steel shovels just started dropping for me in loot. Weapon/tool drops from loot caches seems to have been drastically reduced in A20. Even if trader rewards were reduced they would still be worth doing. You could always do a no trader run. Nothing is truly mandatory. If most of your gear is directly bought from the trader or quest reward that means the trader is overpowered. You might not care because you may want the game to progress faster. But there is obviously a balance problem if the trader progresses much faster than the in-game loot for most players. 6 hours ago, hytalego said: I meant what else is there besides the sewage system and the metro, what other underground things are there that can be explored TFP layed the ground work for underground things in A20 and provided first examples. It is inevitable that there will be more, probably from TFP in A21 and certainly from modders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechanicalLens Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, meganoth said: If most of your gear is directly bought from the trader or quest reward that means the trader is overpowered. You might not care because you may want the game to progress faster. But there is obviously a balance problem if the trader progresses much faster than the in-game loot for most players. Like this wasn't obvious already. Lol. Traders have been overpowered for a long time. I get it, they objectively make progression faster/easier just because of their existence and people utilizing them, but imo their goods should only be slightly above the player's current lootstage. +20 or so, give or take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerfly Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 Wait, it`s Christmas already ? *hitting Esc and Exit Game button* Have good one everyone 🤘 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamida Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Aldranon said: MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! May all your dreams come true and Santa gives you a sock full of coal!! What? At the price of coal these days, load it up Santa!! Don't forget coal is used in making gunpowder... Also yes, everyone have a great Christmas and stay safe. Remember there is no respawning in real life. Take care and use designated drivers, taxis, etc if you have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zztong Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 11 hours ago, Roland said: The few of us who play together have talked about quests and whether it might be a good idea to have a 1-job limit per trader per day. It would slow down the questing a bit as well as encourage people to spread their work around to all the traders. Right now if you find a new trader they only offer T1 quests so you’d rather just work for your first trader. But if you can only do one job for your trader then you might feel better doing a T1 at the next trader as a bonus. How does it work for teams? If they each get one quest from the nearby trader and share it, can they do multiple quests and avoid the 1-2k trip to another trader? Or, is this a limit on turning in finished quests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strike177 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 What is up with the sheer wall that surrounds me on all four sides now? It's appalling and horrendous. please tell me this is a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 31 minutes ago, Strike177 said: What is up with the sheer wall that surrounds me on all four sides now? It's appalling and horrendous. please tell me this is a bug. It is either a bug or an incomplete update to A21. This forum has a support section for stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam the Waster Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 On 12/7/2021 at 5:40 PM, Adam the Waster said: but so far loving it, aside from my potato food/gear is much harder to find Feral sense is great and makes the game scary again for me Weapons look good and love the pipe weapons new zombies look great 11/10 Welp this was short lived. My pc became a pipebomb and popped! i shall Wait for it too come out on Xbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmers Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 1 hour ago, MechanicalLens said: Traders have been overpowered for a long time. I get it, they objectively make progression faster/easier just because of their existence and people utilizing them, but imo their goods should only be slightly above the player's current lootstage. +20 or so, give or take. If they added a progression system for traders, players could improve the loot quality of restocks by doing specific quests. Like import/export trade missions, salvaging specific materials the trader needs to build things, protecting an incoming delivery from bandits, or whatever they can think of. To keep things balanced, there could be timed events where they put out a distress call that they are under siege by bandits or zombies and failing to help them results in a chunk of trader progress being reset (worse loot and visually the base looks worse again). So players can try to babysit every trader if they like that kind of gameplay and be rewarded for it, or players could ignore traders completely and spend their time looting and crafting without feeling punished. Maybe an actual "restock" truck spawns on the map and drives to a trader, so if you are roleplaying as a bandit you could attack it for a free chest at the cost of trader progression (and they keep their old stock for another couple days until the next truck arrives). That kind of world building would really flesh out the game IMO and make me immersed, while solving the issues of traders being OP in early/midgame and the lack of lategame content currently. And it's not dependent on complicated AI or new animations to implement this kind of system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum123456789 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 Yeah the traders are insanely broken and always have been I remember in alpha 15 crafting a bunch of wood spikes to level up really fast and pump about 50 points into better barter and if you sold enough stuff you could literally get a pistol or shotgun or day 1 or 2 it's still the same to be honest just less points and instead of crafting spikes go on a killing spree another reason why it's op Is because why wait to perk into intellect fully to craf forged steel when you can start seeing crucibles in the traders inventory by better barter level 3 if the traders inventory was tied to the players level would definitely make the trader balanced aswell as more helpful as the lower tier stuff generally costs less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricowan Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 Regarding trader quests... I very rarely even do one per day as it is, and I've played that way since traders were introduced. So, if you think they're overpowered, don't do as many? I do think they can affect early game way too much, for what it's worth. In my current play through, I guess I got really really lucky. I spawned in a little over 100 meters from trader Hugh. He had the forge schematic in one of the loot containers (I can't remember which) so I had a working forge on day 2. The seed was "Malachite" on an 8k map, but I also adjusted other aspects of world gen in the advanced generation options so I don't know how to reproduce this map. The map name is "New Afaya Valley" but I don't know if that changes based on the Advanced settings. I spent day 1 doing the starting quests and one quest from Hugh. That got me a ton of cobblestone and I gathered a bunch of wood on the way back, so I spent all of day 2 and half of day 3 building a base and raiding nearby POIs. I didn't see any need to go back to the trader until the end of day 3, and went back on day 4 because of the inventory change. For me, the game is the most fun just raiding random buildings and building up a defense against zombies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ EDIT: I meant to say, trader Hugh is the most broken right now. There are two munition chests, tons of other good loot containers, etc. I'd say he has three or four times more loot than almost every other trader. The new Rekt trader POI has more than it used to, but not as much as Hugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDog1942 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 6 hours ago, Aldranon said: MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! May all your dreams come true and Santa gives you a sock full of coal!! What? At the price of coal these days, load it up Santa!! Screw coal, I want brass!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krougal Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 So I finally got around to making the drone, I am @%$#ing impressed. I haven't had it too long but the pathfinding is great. It's managed to keep up and not get stuck, it even got stuck briefly in the 2nd floor of the highschool somehow, I guess it couldn't fit up the ladder to the roof I went out, but then it backtracked it's way down to the ground floor and out and flew up to me on the roof. I was so proud of it. This is probably the best AI companion I've had in any game so far. I can even look past the annoying British voice 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlaw_187 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 I know this has been brought up before but the vultures are @%$#in ANNOYING in the wasteland & in the desert!! They are annoying anyway but it's way worse now. I have to get off my vehicle every 100 meters or so to get off & kill one that's harassing me! @%$# OFF BIRDS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_ombie Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 Shout out for this POI : Frame killer, so many zombies (very cool) but my god does it bring down my PC which is reasonably respectable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odetta Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Outlaw_187 said: I know this has been brought up before but the vultures are @%$#in ANNOYING in the wasteland & in the desert!! They are annoying anyway but it's way worse now. I have to get off my vehicle every 100 meters or so to get off & kill one that's harassing me! @%$# OFF BIRDS!!! Ya gotta use one of these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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