Krougal

So I guess no one has seen a need for this?

@%$# no.

I think I said it here but maybe it was a different conversation. The urban areas have @%$# tons (metric) of news stands in rows and plenty of mailboxes too. Once you've got a motorcycle it's trivial to ride around looting them even if your base is far away. If the group left them for the base @%$# to loot that would be 1 viable method. Granted motorcycle might be a bit too long to wait, but depending on distance minibike or even bicycle is viable. Another option would be hitting a crack a book and the team letting you loot it while they clear it. I don't consider this magazine system optimal either (I am not even sure if I like it...well, no I don't like it...I tolerate it I guess) but there are ways to minimize the inconveniences. I couldn't play at Roland's snail pace either, I especially don't even want to deal with tier 0 @%$# for longer than about 5 minutes. I mean wtf is this Soviet invasion era Afghanistan? No, actually the Afghans living semi-nomadic and making guns in caves still turned out much higher quality weapons than these crap pipe guns and stone tools. It seems like the MP groups are having more trouble adapting their playstyles than the SP, but those are just 2 partial solutions. Of course modding out the bonus chances from skills and making the mags just plain random would probably solve a lot of MP issues. Yeah, solo player for instance I find grease monkey to be an un-needed luxury, even with an int build, and yet unless you want to wait forever and a day to get a gyrocopter you need to perk into it. Of course it just makes fergettin elixir something to buy stock in, but then besides solar panels what are we really saving our Dukes for anyway. I think they just need to do another balancing pass on it. I think we all agree it was a good idea in theory but the execution wasn't.

It is, but other than the OP and maybe some earlier pages no one really gives a @%$# about the jars, or at least that isn't what the discussion has shifted to. The later posts about the jars and the memes are mostly from the resident jokers. There are some forum regulars who you should never take ANYTHING they say seriously, they are only here for the lulz. Even the case I am making, no it certainly doesn't impact game play much if it were implemented or not implemented. To make water out of snow is a simple recipe modlet that pretty much anyone could do. I imagine changing the action of scooping water to drink into scooping a jar of water might be more involved, but it is also quite possibly accessible in a config file. Obviously if it were more impactful to me I'd get off my ass and do it. If I decide to start a new game before A22 drops (because I am getting bored again) I may just do that. At any rate, as of tomorrow, y'all won't have to suffer through my opinions for 3 weeks since I am off to Europe for a much needed vacation.

Yeah, that is really what the problem becomes. We have enough @%$# to haul around as it is. I carry too much gear and I still don't carry things I would like for contingencies. Like most consumables. So we'd need more slots or some way around it. It's just a lot of hassle. I'm sure many of you remember when we had guns made of parts, and you combined parts to upgrade as well as repair them. It was a disaster. Granted part of it was wear was too fast and the degradation in performance was overbearing and while it may be realistic to a certain degree and in certain areas, overall it is not. More importantly, it certainly wasn't fun. It was fun getting better parts to upgrade your weapon but the mod system that they replaced it with is far superior since it lets us actually customize our weapons.

Well the problem then becomes, what is a good reward? I don't want to do quests to get half-assed rewards that aren't any better than what I could craft myself. You are saying there are too many QL6 but what tier are they? I imagine you guys aren't getting T3 stuff or even T2 after 2 weeks if you are playing with a bunch of noobs. I know this is partially the Pimps fault, because even they are inconsistent about references to Tier and Quality level, but they are not the same thing. There are 4 tiers: 0, 1, 2, 3 although sometimes they are referenced as 1-4. QL runs at 1-6, although sometimes internally 0-5. Computers start sequences at 0, people tend to start sequences at 1. Then to make it more complicated they mix up tier and QL sometimes, and then of course the rest of us follow suit. I don't know what tier quests y'all are at either, it depends how agressive you've been. If you are getting QL6 pipe & stone weapons then that is hardly game-breaking. I would say even T1 wouldn't be out of place by week 2, but then I hit the quests hard. Yes, I agree the emphasis on questing is too much and it has ruined the survival aspect of the game and dumbed it down a lot, but it is what it is.

Yeah, I mean THAT is way smarter than eating the bottle... I bet that guy is uncle-dad to half his village.

I don't know why it is such a difficult concept to grasp of gulping down the thing and tossing the container aside. Honestly the eating the bottle thing is pure stupidity.

FFS! Yeah, stupid typos will get you every time. Somehow I borked up all the bundle names. I got it working now. Thanks!

Well maybe we all just throw the jars and shatter them like we're at a never-ending Jewish wedding and then have nothing to reuse.

<Krougal> <append xpath="/recipes"> <recipe name="ammoBundle9mmAmmo" count="1" craft_time="30" craft_area="workbench" tags="learnable,workbenchCrafting"> <ingredient name="ammo9mmBulletBall" count="100"/> <ingredient name="resourcePaper" count="2"/> </recipe> </append> </Krougal> So I've got a bunch of recipes to repack ammo, but for brevity I shortened it to 1. I get an error about the recipe already existing, but I know alternate recipes with the same name are a thing, such as "resourceGlue" which has 3. I've also tried doing it with insertAfter, but then it just pukes on me altogether and nukes ALL recipes.

You act like it is mutually exclusive though. That they have to bring back the jar to make any changes. No one (well, maybe some people are...I'm not) is proposing anything that brings back the empty jar. So we could scoop water with our hand and magically get a jar of murky water or use the bucket and then boil that (because murky water is not directly useable anymore except for drinking anyway right?), I honestly don't care. That doesn't change or invalidate anything else that has been done. Although I guess 2 outputs to give you back an empty bucket and water would be a heavier lift since it probably requires some new code. Snow to water, once again, does not in any way shape or fashion require bringing back the empty jars. It could be facilitated with or without them. If they want to get fancy they can require the bucket be part of the process. I mean a bucket is almost as important in Minecraft as a pickaxe. Yes, some people then are going to accept that just fine, others will scream about pulling magic jars out of their arse. Those are the kind of things I can hand wave away, like ok, you're a savvy save the planet type and you recycle fervently and carry around a bunch of empty plastic bottles. I mean they are @%$#ing everywhere in the real world today. They don't weight much, you can probably collapse them easy. Whatever you gotta do to sort your own head cannon right. Not being able to gather water from the pond I am looking right at is really immersion breaking. Like I really didn't think about it THAT much until we started this discussion, but the more we talk about it, the more it irritates me.

You mean ferals? Yeah, I feel like they are much more common now, and earlier as well. I don't like it, I've never liked them. I set them to walk.

Well...depends on your map too. Most of my higher tier POIs are not in the forest in the map I've been on for 128 or so days. I was trying to get what passes for a more interesting map these days that the current @%$# generator pukes out and so I didn't min-max for large urban areas. The map is pretty lame for a power gamer, but it's home for now. Obviously I've got a copter by now so I could live where I choose anyway, but Jen is in the snow and Jenny and me is like peas and carrots (but seriously, it was the most convenient centrally located trader with a lot of good flat open ground around it). So yeah, I spend most of my time in the snow. I do get a lot more meat and leather.

Well yes, water scarcity would be game breaking, but as you can see, there is no scarcity of water. You're off-topic though, this is a discussion about....YUCCA! So new guy....boiled or fried? What's it gonna be?

So I use pretty much the same settings you do, but we play vastly different. By day 35 I am typically way ahead of where you are, I imagine you are not leveling very fast either. My big question for you and other people that don't quest. I mean seriously, WTAF do you people spend your time doing? If I didn't quest it wouldn't really affect my activity. If anything it makes life a little easier because I don't have to @%$# back and forth to the trader and worry about what time of day it is (I really should just use the all night mod...I mean that is another peeve, if someone wants to hide out in the trader all night, why do the Pimps care, it's not something I generally want to do either, certainly not in SP I've got a million better things to do with my time) so I could just do what I want when I want. So I would just be clearing POIs as I came across them or wanted/needed a particular thing. Then of course I wouldn't have the quest rewards and we all know how rare it is to find good stuff in a POI, which means I'd be more dependent on crafting. Now using a headshot mod, does make it easier for me to get by with crap gear, because I can still 1 shot zeds with a pipe baton or stone arrows. It actually makes the performance of the spray and pray weapons anemic. I've also got the ability to craft QL6 eventually, so once again I am going to get top quality gear eventually 1 way or another. I've got some other little tweaks and of course the HUD mods but nothing major contentwise. Mining would still be an as needed activity. I don't hate it but I don't particularly love it. I get most of my clay/cobblestone/sand/stone from the palettes in POIs and the odd buried treasure. I tend to buy cement at the traders because I just find it annoying to tie up a forge for it.

Yeah, works like a champ. Thanks again.

Don't be a pain in the ass Just because I said there are 2 broad groups doesn't mean everyone has to fit into 1 of them. Generalizations and stereotypes are just that. It is a lot easier than spending another 3 paragraphs discussing all the possibilities. It's true, I tend to gloss over MP and it has been a while since I've had a good MP 7D. The game just didn't really hold the interest of my group and then because of health issues I stopped playing MP really anyway. I still don't really get how people can complain it is harder or items are more scarce, since more people should be more effective than 1. Yes, I get it, we play MP to play together, not to be all spread out all the time. Still sometimes that is the best way to do that. My groups we all tend to have specific jobs. How rigid it is varies greatly from game to game or even session to session. I have spent a great many hours being the "base @%$#" so trust me, I understand the logistics of pretty much any game I play pretty well. While food doesn't seem much of an issue past early game in A21 either, in earlier games we did have a guy who enjoyed hunting and he specialized in it and so part of his routine of course was to break off from the group and provide us all with much needed meat. Another guy really enjoyed mining, and so on and so forth. You can specialize a lot more in MP than SP and these days all perk lines weapon trees are more or less equal. You can find a youtuber doing a playthrough with any weapon these days and they look like the god of war himself. So I'm sorry, I still gotta call bull@%$# on the people who cry that MP is such a struggle and SP has it so easy. Your group needs to adapt their playstyle or play on different settings or mod the game. Git gud nubs!!! 😛 Ahem...anyway... It would seem most of us (in the discussion) still aren't seeing this "scarcity" you and Roland speak of and nothing we've proposed would really change it either. You did hit it on the head about reality and Kalen summed it up pretty well. So while I will repeat over and over, fun trumps reality, I do expect a certain level of reality. Realistic inventory is not fun (go play Project Zomboid if you think it is). Realistic water is fun. Like I said in an earlier post, early game everything is scarce and a struggle. How long early game lasts is more the variable. For Roland it seems to be weeks. We'd have to poll the average noob to see how long it lasts for them. For me it is a day or two. For some it is just the first day. For the nightmare-insane-runallthetime-allferal crowd "what is early game? and what struggle?" Of course we would have to agree on a definition of what "early-game" really means, since again it is just a generalization. To me it is that period when you are getting established, living hand to mouth and feeling very vulnerable, just squatting in a small house or maybe even camping out in front of the trader. Although it isn't the defining moment, 1 of the milestones for me would be getting the bicycle. Well yeah, and the good or bad of it is another raging debate. I never said I am a fan of the current meta, but I live and die by it. Those of you who choose to try and "buck the system" that's on you. I am not judging anyone for playing how they play and even myself my own modding and difficulty setting choices also make my own playstyle very different than others. Still to have an honest discussion where we are all on the same page, those differences need to be accounted for. When all is said and done the game is balanced around the default settings, not what the rest of us do. Here you go, I been dragging it around for years:

Yeah, I know it is all the rage up in the NCR and even southern PA. The first time I had it was in some place attached to a gas station somewhere in between Baltimore and DC and it was amazing! We have a saying in the south, "the worse the place looks on the outside, the better the food is"

I feel your pain, I really do. I mean I enjoyed this game a lot more back in the simpler times when this game was more like Minecraft in like A9 or 10 when you just got a club and a crossbow and you had a grand old time exploring the map randomly generated on the fly. Being scared at night and trying to sit there quietly and not draw attention to yourself. Good times! I know, the game will never feel like that again but it is what it is. So anyway, maybe it's me, but maybe your examples don't really illustrate the point you are trying to get across, because when I read between the lines it mostly just sounds like "we don't want to put in the time to scavenge and craft, nor do we want to spend a lot of time looting" so I don't really know what your group would rather be doing. Running around with m60s and unlimited ammo spraying zeds? Not judging, I mean that's a good time in and of itself. I get you about first aid and gas and not leaving the forest. I have a chest overflowing with meds and I've only made antibiotics (which I also never use). While I will fly up to the desert once or twice to get a ton of shale, the rest of the time I buy it. I do move into the snow for the higher loot stage but I don't bother with the desert or the wasteland if I can help it. No, I don't think these were good changes to the game either and you are 100% right about that.

Yeah, so I know we're beating this to death at this point probably but seriously, that aspect is a dismal failure. Who are the some people. Seems to be 2 groups. 1. Noobs - They are a bad example because they generally find everything scarce and/or difficult that seasoned players don't. Dog packs, fighting, finding a pot, getting their forge, I could go on and on. 2. The "self-challenged" - Some of us are so bored that we mod the game to be harder and/or play under self-imposed limitations or role-playing rules that, let's admit it...it's playing poorly on purpose. While there is something to be said for doing what you've got to do to keep the game interesting for yourself, there are efficient ways to play and these are not it. I am not talking about doing absolutely every cheesy thing either, as some of y'all are defensive about it, but seriously if you aren't hitting the ground running and doing as many quests as you can then you aren't playing very efficiently. So while I have griped about duct tape, which is the single largest consumer of water, and yes, at first the jarring change (not to mention all the other jarring changes) gave me a bit of...I wouldn't really even say challenge or difficulty...irritation is more like it. It is very irritating to feel like a noob at a game you've been playing for years. A bit of experimentation and skimming some youtubes and by my 2nd start I was hitting the ground running again. I'm sure a lot of experienced players had the same experience so it is something we may @%$# about but we adapt and get over it quickly. This isn't just the water, all the changes like Kalen said. I also use more duct tape than average because I use a mod for crafting QL6, which means 1. I probably craft more than others, even though I rely more on quest rewards than crafting. 2. The duct tape cost scales with the QL, a T6 junk turret alone is 60 tape. Once again, it is something that I gripe about because I spend far more time dealing with water/glue/tape than I would like to, but then I have a period of drop what you are doing and collect a ton of springs & mech parts which is also not my favorite activity. No, I am not complaining about scavenging in general, just having to do it en masse. It's a minor complaint at that.

OMG! Maybe not everyone in the group needs a machinegun. They could use like I dunno, different weapons. I mean I appreciate your perspective, really I do, but you always make it sound like everyone should have everything, and right off the rip too. Like dropping into a CSGO game or something. You're right I don't play much MP 7D, but I've played a lot of Rust. Part of the fun is pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps when that 1 bow is the difference between the group living or dying to get to the point where we all can carry an AK and a sniper and not care if we go out and lose them.

Yeah, it is a Latin staple. Fried it is like French fries (or chips for you Brits) but better. Boiled is ok, but not my favorite. If you have a Peruvian chicken joint in your area, you should be able to get it there, along with some of the best slow-roasted chicken you ever had. Sadly there is not a lot of Latin food in my area

No not really. One is a bad idea about water in the game and the other is just facts about fossil fuels in the real world. Apples and oranges. Again, glad you aren't developing the game. All very true. Hey! I uninstalled my backpack mod and have been sucking it up and dealing with it (besides I learned that the drone will take 4 cargo mods). Some people are really bent about it, but I think most of us are just throwing around ideas. I mean I think my suggestions were reasonable, but I don't expect them to get implemented anyway, because face it, most indy devs don't think anyone's ideas but their own are good and they hate to admit someone else had a better idea for their game. Of course all of us think our suggestions are reasonable.

We feel the same way about you 😛