Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

Since Alpha 17 I have played each new alpha less and less. 

 

Why, I wasn't sure. The feel of the game changed and I couldn't quite put my finger on it, though I did appreciate numerous upgrades to visuals and certain mechanics.

 

I am already bored with this Alpha and; unlike other Alphas, this time I have identified one thing that has contributed to the turn off: building.

 

The shapes are amazing, the variety is fantastic, and there are some brilliant potential structures that can come of it. But... upgrade simplification...

 

This simplification has meant very limited upgrade path progression, and whereby it may appease those who cant be bothered to rebar, for me it has shortened the building experience.

 

Now it isn't as satisfying to build and upgrade, the time it took to move up block advancements actually gave me something to do and kept me occupied in game, as building (as well as farming) are big parts of my playstyle.

 

This oversimplification has left me burnt out in the early game, forced to loot and fight. 

 

Does anyone know of a mod that brings the old system back at least (but also keep the new blovk shapes)? 🤔

 

 

[CoolJ]

As predicted, because my luck is pure trash, I have no Bob's Boars POIs on my random gen world at all. I've got two supercorn seeds that I got from bundle crates. It seems pretty rare to get supercorn in those bundles because I have been watching all the Lets Plays from the usual people and so far none of the farm bundles they have opened have had supercorn. So my next three points go into LOTL and we'll see if I get screwed or not.

 

This is exactly why the 50% seed return is not going to work. I'm telling you right now. This has the potential to screw people. You have recipes that use supercorn now also. I have found the schematics for them. You can spec into them. Imagine spending points on them and not getting any supercorn ever because TFP decided to take RNG too far. Better not ever admit a mistake. It's a sign of weakness.

Sure makes me want to play some more.....🙈 🙉 🙊

[POCKET951]

22 minutes ago, CoolJ said:

As predicted, because my luck is pure trash, I have no Bob's Boars POIs on my random gen world at all. I've got two supercorn seeds that I got from bundle crates. It seems pretty rare to get supercorn in those bundles because I have been watching all the Lets Plays from the usual people and so far none of the farm bundles they have opened have had supercorn. So my next three points go into LOTL and we'll see if I get screwed or not.

 

This is exactly why the 50% seed return is not going to work. I'm telling you right now. This has the potential to screw people. You have recipes that use supercorn now also. I have found the schematics for them. You can spec into them. Imagine spending points on them and not getting any supercorn ever because TFP decided to take RNG too far. Better not ever admit a mistake. It's a sign of weakness.

Sure makes me want to play some more.....🙈 🙉 🙊

As long as you have LoTL 3 you will always get 6 back and it cost 5 to make a seed.with LOTL 3,even with the worst luck you will get your supercorn farm going evntually

[Khalagar]

1 hour ago, CoolJ said:

I've got two supercorn seeds that I got from bundle crates. It seems pretty rare to get supercorn in those bundles because I have been watching all the Lets Plays from the usual people and so far none of the farm bundles they have opened have had supercorn

 

I dunno, I got a super corn seed from my first farm plot reward I accepted at like level 3, and with 1 point in LoTL I've gotten a seed back every harvest, and have made enough super corn to craft a second seed pretty easily, to increase my supercorn output.

 

I don't actually have a use for Supercorn at the moment though lol, I've got more glue and duct tape than I have any need for, which is shocking since you can usually never get enough. I've just been buy glue and duct tape from traders in stacks of like 20+, and have had 2-3 learning elixir (I think that's the only other use of super corn?) sitting in my box for horde nights just from loot

 

Much more important than supercorn for me, is potatoes. Frickin potato seeds, I've got one little plant giving it's all to give me taters, and it's not enough. It's never enough

[MechanicalLens]

6 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

 

I dunno, I got a super corn seed from my first farm plot reward I accepted at like level 3, and with 1 point in LoTL I've gotten a seed back every harvest, and have made enough super corn to craft a second seed pretty easily, to increase my supercorn output.

 

I don't actually have a use for Supercorn at the moment though lol, I've got more glue and duct tape than I have any need for, which is shocking since you can usually never get enough. I've just been buy glue and duct tape from traders in stacks of like 20+, and have had 2-3 learning elixir (I think that's the only other use of super corn?) sitting in my box for horde nights just from loot

 

Much more important than supercorn for me, is potatoes. Frickin potato seeds, I've got one little plant giving it's all to give me taters, and it's not enough. It's never enough

 

 

Just keep on searching your words for Bob's Boars, it might have one.  Or two... Or three.  *Sees myself out*

[Burrfly]

1 hour ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

But... upgrade simplification...

This was also a concern of mine, yep. A little sad about wet and reinforced concrete being gone, as well as reinforced wood. But there truly are a lot of other epic features added, which makes this update good again (personally). I hope that they will add more building blocks to choose from in the future in general. Buildings in cities have a lot of variety when it comes to materials they are made from, while we players always will have bases made from the same materials.

 

There don't have to be as many materials players can choose from as, for example, in Minecraft, but one or two more materials for shapes we can build ourselves would definitely be amazing. 

 

Just for example, a new material is added: titanium, which has the highest corrosion resistance and thus is the most resistant against acid that Fat Cops and Mutant zombies spit/emit, but has less HP than steel. It can be used to make a mod for the vault doors (adding the acid resistance to the door), or can be made into a block that can be placed higher up in a base (resisting against the shooting acid/puke), but isn't designed to be directly in the hordenight base room (in late game), as it has less HP.

 

I know that this titanium was an unrealistic example, but just... yeah... to be an example  

 

But, after all, very cool that they added some more mechanical blocks, such as the shutters. This adds a lot of variety

[zztong]

21 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

What if the search field was reset only when you press one of the categories filters?

That way, when you want to "change subject" you'll start from scratch...

 

I'm not sure. I'm having trouble envisioning the flow. I suspect it depends on how I'm searching for the desired item(s) and how many items of that type there are. If I'm expecting a lot of results I might change subjects rather than go up to the global level. Maybe? I'm not sure.

[wolfbain5]

is there a way via xml to separate loot respawn timer from zombie respawn? I turn loot respawn off, but after 40 days, I still haven't seen a single prefab zombie respawn. makes the world feel too empty. I mean I turn of the loot because who is refilling the cabinets and such, but zombies are always wandering around

[meganoth]

6 minutes ago, wolfbain5 said:

is there a way via xml to separate loot respawn timer from zombie respawn? I turn loot respawn off, but after 40 days, I still haven't seen a single prefab zombie respawn. makes the world feel too empty. I mean I turn of the loot because who is refilling the cabinets and such, but zombies are always wandering around

 

There is probably a way via bug reporting if a dev said it should work differently

 

[wolfbain5]

1 minute ago, meganoth said:

 

There is probably a way via bug reporting if a dev said it should work differently

 

it is not a bug so reporting it there will fail, Faatal... <i think it was him> stated that if loot respawn is turned of zeds respawn after 30 days.... that is still way too long a lapse

[meganoth]

7 minutes ago, wolfbain5 said:

it is not a bug so reporting it there will fail, Faatal... <i think it was him> stated that if loot respawn is turned of zeds respawn after 30 days.... that is still way too long a lapse

 

After 40 days you don't see zeds spawn which is different from what he said would occur.Therefore a bug. Additional to 30 days being too long

 

[FranticDan]

35 minutes ago, wolfbain5 said:

is there a way via xml to separate loot respawn timer from zombie respawn? I turn loot respawn off, but after 40 days, I still haven't seen a single prefab zombie respawn. makes the world feel too empty. I mean I turn of the loot because who is refilling the cabinets and such, but zombies are always wandering around

I would like these options separated too, I have loot respawn off but want zombies to respawn. Being able to select between 1-10 days for zombie respawn would be great!

[gpcstargate]

3 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

Since Alpha 17 I have played each new alpha less and less. 

 

Why, I wasn't sure. The feel of the game changed and I couldn't quite put my finger on it, though I did appreciate numerous upgrades to visuals and certain mechanics.

 

I am already bored with this Alpha and; unlike other Alphas, this time I have identified one thing that has contributed to the turn off: building.

 

The shapes are amazing, the variety is fantastic, and there are some brilliant potential structures that can come of it. But... upgrade simplification...

 

This simplification has meant very limited upgrade path progression, and whereby it may appease those who cant be bothered to rebar, for me it has shortened the building experience.

 

Now it isn't as satisfying to build and upgrade, the time it took to move up block advancements actually gave me something to do and kept me occupied in game, as building (as well as farming) are big parts of my playstyle.

 

This oversimplification has left me burnt out in the early game, forced to loot and fight. 

 

Does anyone know of a mod that brings the old system back at least (but also keep the new blovk shapes)? 🤔

 

 

 

Yes .. I agree with the over-simplification of building .. I personally miss all the old ways and I miss Scrap iron frames .. Building is basically a 4 step working now .. it used to be about 10 steps.

But, I Love all the New Shapes that we can work with.

[Gazz]

If someone is burnt out on 7DTD after who knows how many hours then A20 will not magically fix that.

There are no radical changes in gameplay.

[mstdv inc]

Hey @madmole

I have been waiting for A20 all this time not in order to arrange a speedrun for the game, as many do, but in order to enjoy the game and stay at every stage of development as long as possible.
At 25% exp, I ran into a problem when a merchant offers me a forge, a chemical laboratory and a workbench even before the first horde. Of course, I did not buy them so as not to spoil my game, although I already had money for them by that time.
Have the developers thought about adding a traderstage in the future by analogy with a lootstage?
So that the trader's assortment and even his rewards correspond to the percentage of experience that the player has put.
Also, setting the percentage of experience could affect the parameter "quest per tier",increasing it from 7 to 10 or up to 14 if the player chooses less than 100% of experience.

[MisutoM]

5 hours ago, POCKET951 said:

I'm on day 7 on my nomad 100% loot server and I only have 20 shotgun shells and 30 pistol rounds. I also have been choosing books over ammo in trader quest rewards. I would say ammo has been scarce for me and fairly balanced. It definitley hasn't been over abundant. If all I did was use guns instead of my lvl6 prim bow I'd be out of ammo.

 

I'm conserving ammo and I'm barely finding any

 

Granted I've spent about 15 shotgun shells and 70 pistol shots with the pipe weapons

 

I think  @MisutoM got really lucky with how much ammo he was finding. And as much of a bad shot he claims to be, I watched his stream and he is pretty effficent with his smg shots, def more proficient than  most players

 

 

Oh hey it's pocket from stream! *waves*

 

We got lucky again tonight then XD

 

New world and at the end of day 5, again using only guns (and sparingly using explosives, maybe 10 molotovs in 5 days?), we're sitting on 300+ shotgun shells, 400+ 7.62, and 1000+ 9mm. That's on survivalist with feral sense always on.

 

Lucky tends to be a temporary thing and I'm at 80+ hours of the new alpha consistently getting flooded in ammo. 

 

Also, Gazz told me that some people think INT is weak and I'm confused. At the end of day 5 I'm sitting on 20 quests finished, an entire horde base built from scratch and upgraded to cobblestone, a quality 3 auto shotgun + full auto mod, quality 3 ak47 with 2 random mods, a crappy pistol, over 60 explosives, and ~15,000 dukes to spare. Do other people seriously and consistently get more done than that in 5 days cause I've never had that much done and owned max tier weapons that early without speccing into INT.

 

Daring adventurer is crazy good. Consider the ninja buffs it got: traders now show 5 quests of each tier, so you can always do 5 tier 1 quests a day just for ammo and explosives and tier completion rewards only take 7 finished quests now and you get to pick two of those rewards as well. Then combo DA with better barter and sell the rewards that you don't need from higher tier quests and you end up getting 2-3x as much dukes per quest, and the trader shows you better stuff to actually spend said dukes on. Even if you find the other perks in INT unappealing, that's kind of the idea of asymmetric balance; INT doesn't make your weapons better and that's not the goal, but if you play to the advantages of the perk you can get generally better weapons earlier to account for not having a combat skill. 

 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

56 minutes ago, Gazz said:

If someone is burnt out on 7DTD after who knows how many hours then A20 will not magically fix that.

There are no radical changes in gameplay.

 

The burn out is from the fact that you lot keep ruining crap and removing your old (and amazing) ideas and implementations.

 

And remember many of these old systems (including the learn by doing) were part of your games character. I don't want 7D to lose more of what made it such an amazing experience in the first place.

[Kosmic Kerman]

5 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

Since Alpha 17 I have played each new alpha less and less. 

 

Why, I wasn't sure. The feel of the game changed and I couldn't quite put my finger on it, though I did appreciate numerous upgrades to visuals and certain mechanics.

 

I am already bored with this Alpha and; unlike other Alphas, this time I have identified one thing that has contributed to the turn off: building.

 

The shapes are amazing, the variety is fantastic, and there are some brilliant potential structures that can come of it. But... upgrade simplification...

 

This simplification has meant very limited upgrade path progression, and whereby it may appease those who cant be bothered to rebar, for me it has shortened the building experience.

 

Now it isn't as satisfying to build and upgrade, the time it took to move up block advancements actually gave me something to do and kept me occupied in game, as building (as well as farming) are big parts of my playstyle.

 

This oversimplification has left me burnt out in the early game, forced to loot and fight. 

 

Does anyone know of a mod that brings the old system back at least (but also keep the new blovk shapes)? 🤔

 

 

 

I get missing building with rebar because rebar frames were metal and could sufficiently bear the weight of the ultimate design. What I don't understand is the complaint about "limited upgrade path progression." First, rebar building was simply frame, concrete, and then steel if necessary. I'm not sure I see the difference between wood frame, wood, cobble, concrete, steel...provided that you enjoyed upgrading blocks. You could even shorten this to cobble, concrete, steel to either reduce upgrade time or help with structural integrity. And so what I don't understand is if you miss upgrading, why isn't building in wood frames and then upgrading sufficient. And if it was something you enjoyed, it's possible that the reduced weight capacity of wood frames would be appealing since you'd have to be more careful with how you upgraded.  

 

[BFT2020]

14 minutes ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

 

The burn out is from the fact that you lot keep ruining crap and removing your old (and amazing) ideas and implementations.

 

And remember many of these old systems (including the learn by doing) were part of your games character. I don't want 7D to lose more of what made it such an amazing experience in the first place.

 

That's the risk of purchasing an early access game.  Features that you may like may end up on the cutting board during the development of the game.

 

Right now, the only concern I have with the game is loot progression might be too good for me.  But if I have too many issues with it, I will just mod it to be slower.

[dcsobral]

8 hours ago, Marinxar said:

Alright, so I am still fully engulfed in A20, and already the hype for the new A21 crafting systems is in full swing.  I can only hope that this is LBD getting it's foot in the door for a major come back. 

I, for one, hope it is NOT an LBD. Why? Because it's crafting. Crafting is where LBD does not work unless attempted crafting can fail resulting in loss of materials -- just like attempted melee can fail and result in loss of life. LBD is great for fighting: you get better at what you use, and suck at what you don't. It's ok for stealth as long as there's an opponent with a perception at least comparable to your level, or for running and jumping (see Valheim for these three). But alpha 15's "craft 500 stone axes" is awful.

 

---

 

Is there a reason why the sewer hatch is not player craftable? It looks so cool.

[saltychipmunk]

Yeah LBD only really works if you can exclude any rapidly repeatable exploit tasks.   Which is hard to do since not every perk has an equal amount of associated activities .

 

And we all know how lop sided skyrim got when you afk leveled stealth to 100 or crafted 10000 knives to get 100 crafting skill.

[SlayerQc]

As someone who is hitching to play A20 I'm really looking forward to Stable release (as I don't want to fully invest on experimental just to have to restart).

 

Now that experimental has been out for over a week, could we get an ETA for Stable?

[Guppycur]

LBD works if what you're "learning" only applies to what you're "doing".

 

...it failed last time because people were crafting stone axes and buying the ability to make concrete.

 

 

[RussianMafia]

4 minutes ago, SlayerQc said:

As someone who is hitching to play A20 I'm really looking forward to Stable release (as I don't want to fully invest on experimental just to have to restart).

 

Now that experimental has been out for over a week, could we get an ETA for Stable?

soon

[Jost Amman]

8 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

LBD works if what you're "learning" only applies to what you're "doing".

 

...it failed last time because people were crafting stone axes and buying the ability to make concrete.

Well, even that would only work partially, IMO.

 

For example, there's higher tier stuff that you can only craft in limited amounts because of the rare materials used in the recipe. In that case, you'll never get good at crafting that specific object because you'll only craft it a few times in the first place (if I understand correctly what you're talking about).