Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[MechanicalLens]

We have rage zombies, so its for the better. If we didn't do it, there would have been massive weeping and endless rage quitting. Should we remove rage zombies the coolest thing I've seen in years? No lets just thin the herd a little noone will even notice and pacing is important, running into a zed every 30 feet isn't fun its monotonous. The woods are still crawling with zeds, the change isn't really noticeable and I have 1000's of hours in. Least not if your on the run, I see them constantly.

 

I LOVE the idea of raging zombies. But I am curious... Did you mean that most zombies will rage (but not all will), or that zombies will most likely rage? There's a difference.

[Callum123456789]

madmole will we have random zombie encounters in like a19 or a20 because I knida miss them but if they where re added into the game that would be good I know we still do have random encounters with zombies but only like 1-2 zombies or are you talking about random bandit encounters?

[Guppycur]

To each their own. *Shrugs* Opinions exist after all.

 

Less zombies in a zombie game is an obvious setbacks, I don't care what side of the aisle you are on farming...

 

...the world is dead. I remember back in the underground argument days everyone was clamoring about how the underground was wasted opportunity for action. Now the entire world is, except for the POI's.

 

That's sad. And now they're going to make it even worse? Because I was just talking about a17.

[ZombieHorde]

My guess:

Graphics bling-bling was my impression as one major culprit (more texture/shader passes). And the new buff system might be another (secret) cause. More complex AI surely cost as well. Flexibility (i.e. putting more options into the xml) did generally add cycles everywhere.

 

Being a programmer, I don't get it, either. Admittedly, I'm not a gaming programmer, but still, I know how one system effects another and have a rough idea about how I'd programme something and the amount of number-crunching involved.

 

Probably bling is a guilty aspect, but not as much as you'd think as graphics uses the GPU processor, not the CPU.

Negative to the buff system being the culprit unless some really shoddy programming got in there.

 

Complex AI, yes, now that's a thing. But on horde night the computer has to process the zombies, so why restrict them during other times? And in the wilderness they don't have to navigate blocks nearly as much as horde night, so they could be dumbed down in AI.

 

Things TFP's should have done are:

1. Seeing as the zombie generations are XML based, a simple slider would help people have an option.

2. Plenty of options to improve the graphics or lower them. Didn't have to effect the count of Z's. Game struggles? Either turn down # of Z's or do without some graphic enhancement.

[Guppycur]

I had 5 biome zombies after me last night, nobody will even notice. Max alive might have been preventing that former larger value from even spawning.

 

Yes I am against this change in theory, but in practice you barely notice, there are still zeds mulling about and sandwiching you in POIs, yet the game feels smoother and faster. Its a win win now, and will be a win win win later when we add random encounters. I did add more than 17 has to the wasteland though, so if you feeling frisky go there at night.

 

You only barely noticed because you only had five zombies in the first place. That was the actual problem that needed fixing. Had you had 20, like you should have, in a zombie game...

[Zombie_Jam]

Then they could just dig a one block deep "pit" in the ground, fill it with plant boxes, surround them with upgraded wood frames and paint the frames to look like gravel or a part of their base (of the farm is inside). Problemo solved (for those who are old school).

 

Hey Sage,

 

Yeah you could but I don't like the thought of it, and lets face it, there's a lot less tedium in tilling and even fertilising 200 blocks than in crafting 200 planter boxes and digging out 200 blocks of dirt then placing 200 planters and THEN planting in them.

 

That will piss a lot of people off, me included. For decorative purposes and flush building designs, the planter boxes are one of the most beautiful things the Pimps have designed. I freely admit it and admire the addition, very much so.

 

But the idea of working big plots of land out in the wild without the whole tedium and annoyance of all that extra faff on is raw, its survivalist, it's 7D and it's what many of us love fell in love with.

 

Sure it's one aspect in relation to all the other freedoms we have in the game - looting, killing, mining, crafting, but it's no less special.

 

Planters for bases, hoe for the wild ones of us. Does me just fine 😁

[Guppycur]

Hyperbole doesn't help your argument. Farming isn't being removed.

 

The system of farming is being removed and replaced with a crafting system. Not hyperbole.

[Kattla]

You only barely noticed because you only had five zombies in the first place. That was the actual problem that needed fixing. Had you had 20, like you should have, in a zombie game...

 

The 15 other zombies ragequitted.

[CannedSmeef]

We have rage zombies, so its for the better. If we didn't do it, there would have been massive weeping and endless rage quitting. Should we remove rage zombies the coolest thing I've seen in years? No lets just thin the herd a little noone will even notice and pacing is important, running into a zed every 30 feet isn't fun its monotonous. The woods are still crawling with zeds, the change isn't really noticeable and I have 1000's of hours in. Least not if your on the run, I see them constantly.

 

What do you mean by rage zombies? Was this a feature announcement I missed?

[mr.natural]

What do you mean by rage zombies? Was this a feature announcement I missed?

 

Yes it was announced although a bit hidden

[Genosis]

What do you mean by rage zombies? Was this a feature announcement I missed?

 

Zombies now have random bursts of speed when hit, "rage-mode" basically. That way, the combat is less formulaic and not as easy to avoid getting hit.

[Locusta]

You only barely noticed because you only had five zombies in the first place. That was the actual problem that needed fixing. Had you had 20, like you should have, in a zombie game...

 

But that would interrupt getting to the lootboxes, I mean POIs.

 

 

Loc

[Kattla]

The system of farming is being removed and replaced with a crafting system. Not hyperbole.

 

Nah. They just made the pile of fertilized soil a square box instead. Which, if unholy joe's screenie is correct will merge with nearby boxes. The real trick lies with the seeds, which if MM is correct, can be found or crafted(?????) if you buy a perk. Wonder what the strength and SI values of the boxs are, and if they are included in blocks zombies will target.

[unholyjoe]

What do you mean by rage zombies? Was this a feature announcement I missed?

 

it was announced yes... this is new ai where when random zombie gets random damage, they will lurch forward for something like 2 seconds which in itself is a game changer. if zombie steps on cactus or trap or another zombie slaps his buddy... this can trigger it... i have seen them fall off cliffs and buildings, land pick themselves up and run for a few seconds. so those traps to slow down zombies... can work against you if you are not careful.

[Guppycur]

If the "team" is dying 10 times in the first 3 days, they're doing it wrong.

 

...in a world where pois are the ONLY danger, food is plentiful and easy to get, and every resource you could possibly need sticks out like a sore thumb against the landscape, *why* are they entering POI's at all?

 

It would be as silly to do so as checking out that sound in the basement with a butter knife right after already having discovered your friends dead body. And that's pretty damn silly.

 

Tell me, what is a18 going to do to me if I just avoid going into POI's (except a few small garages or destroyed buildings) until I'm geared up and ready?

 

... what's in there that's so important that I can't get from road trash piles, cars and worst case, garages?

 

You're talking about removing every other danger in the world, except POI's.

 

...I play smart, not hard. Always have. I'm not going to jump into a poi just because...

[unholyjoe]

Nah. They just made the pile of fertilized soil a square box instead. Which, if unholy joe's screenie is correct will merge with nearby boxes. The real trick lies with the seeds, which if MM is correct, can be found or crafted(?????) if you buy a perk. Wonder what the strength and SI values of the boxs are, and if they are included in blocks zombies will target.

 

you also find the schematic/recipe to craft a seed as well.

[Guppycur]

But that would interrupt getting to the lootboxes, I mean POIs.

 

 

Loc

 

It was really disheartening to hear that the logic behind removing the biome spawns was not performance, was not because they were unnecessary, but because they could possibly sneak up behind you when you're going into a poi and make the danger even greater.

 

Um, that's the fracking game. Or at least it used to be.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

it was announced yes... this is new ai where when random zombie gets random damage, they will lurch forward for something like 2 seconds which in itself is a game changer. if zombie steps on cactus or trap or another zombie slaps his buddy... this can trigger it... i have seen them fall off cliffs and buildings, land pick themselves up and run for a few seconds. so those traps to slow down zombies... can work against you if you are not careful.

 

It definitely enhances things, we've been using this mod for a while, but it's not that hard by itself.

 

Combined with randomly timed getting up, and always running zombies, is a different story. No more conga line hordes.

[beerfly]

it was announced yes... this is new ai where when random zombie gets random damage, they will lurch forward for something like 2 seconds which in itself is a game changer. if zombie steps on cactus or trap or another zombie slaps his buddy... this can trigger it... i have seen them fall off cliffs and buildings, land pick themselves up and run for a few seconds. so those traps to slow down zombies... can work against you if you are not careful.

 

Can`t wait to try this new thing on dead is dead, on extreme. At night, while clearing a poi in mid-late game.

Does the options for speed of zeds in menu before we start a game affect how fast they will rage by the way ? If someone set them on ..was it *walk only*, haven`t check the lowest options, will they keep raging ?

[Gareee]

Holy crap, that was intense! The latest farming $#itstorm was like seeing the forum turn into a horde night for Joel!

 

I could see them trying to get part his defenses, and him bashing them with his flaming spiked club.

 

You guys are all long time distant freinds, and I hate seeking you all at each other's throats, but I think we CAN all agreed everyone's is here because they are passionate about the game.

 

I figure if we don't like the new farming changes, well just add that big gaming mod once it's updated, and just keep movin on.

 

MM, I know you are passionate, but don't take the crits personally. You've created something people love enough to fight about, and that's an accomplishment in itself.

[FA_Q2]

I don't use mods on Bethesda games until playing through once or twice on vanilla, then I'm super picky and careful about what mods I add, and only add one at a time so I can screen for bugs. I want to know their vanilla design 200% before changing anything. Usually its mods to make the game harder or QOL mods.

 

I am the opposite here.

 

I cannot play a Bethesda game through to the end without modding the crap out of it. Bethesda is one of the worst gameplay game makers that exist IMO. They are also the absolute best world creators out there.

 

MODS fix the gameplay so I can enjoy the rich, amazing and detailed worlds they create

[meganoth]

I like your suggestion. However, I don't know if it is technically possible to either harvest seeds or crops.

The only disadvantage I see is that you accumulate a lot of seeds that you don't need anymore when the garden has reached its final size.

 

I am surprised that nobody wanted to be a farmer. Then probably nobody wanted to be a miner as well.

 

Nope, we always had enough people mining, in many games it was the same person doing most of the mining, sure. But everyone, even myself, did mine from time to time. Either because resources were scare, there was nothing to do at night, there was an underground path needed or there was an underground base to build.

[Locusta]

It was really disheartening to hear that the logic behind removing the biome spawns was not performance, was not because they were unnecessary, but because they could possibly sneak up behind you when you're going into a poi and make the danger even greater.

 

Um, that's the fracking game. Or at least it used to be.

 

Couldn’t agree more. If the cry is because you “suddenly” get attacked from behind, then maybe the solution should be working on zombie walking sounds or give the player a zombie warning/scream/moan/groan. I always check my back and deal with all surrounding zombies before entering a POI. Sounds to me like inexperience, but what do I know.

 

Edit: another solution could be changing the range at which zombies hear you.

 

 

Loc

[RipClaw]

it was announced yes... this is new ai where when random zombie gets random damage, they will lurch forward for something like 2 seconds which in itself is a game changer. if zombie steps on cactus or trap or another zombie slaps his buddy... this can trigger it... i have seen them fall off cliffs and buildings, land pick themselves up and run for a few seconds. so those traps to slow down zombies... can work against you if you are not careful.

 

Does this also apply to feral and radioactive zombies? In the default settings they sprint anyway. Do they then accelerate to nightmare speed ?

[madmole]

I have to ask.. what survival experience? Survival implies that you have to overcome something. Weather? Food? Thirst? Yes there are enemies in the game, but that would imply that any WW2-shooter out there can be classified as a survival game..

 

Acquiring things you need to thrive is survival IMO. Finding sewing kits to craft pockets, find tools to be more efficient, learning new recipes for seeds and meals is rewarding survival to me. There are over 300 new books and schematics to find that increase your chance of survival. Farm, build a fort, etc. Its completely confusing that you think the game is less survival oriented, you do all the same stuff you always did, but with a lot more to do now every day is jam packed with a massive to do list.

[madmole]

Not even remotely accurate.

 

Every time I or a group of us started a new game, the hunt was on for a cooking pot. Every time we found one, there was rejoicing. Every. Time. To be able to go from making a single drink of clean water (and clean water only), to mass producing clean water, or making teas/coffee/what have you, was a leap of progress. It looked, smelt, felt and tasted like progress.

 

You guys screwed it up by making cooking pots more common than Roland having to prune the DD thread of cruft.

 

Changing the system so you can boil glass jars of murky water is identical to boiling cans of water, with *zero* drawbacks. So if the old system was "a turd", then the new system is "the scoots."

 

-A

 

PS - the issue isn't whether it can be modded or not to our taste. The issue is the design decisions you guys are making all scream "dumb it down."

 

What makes you think boiled water is safe to drink?