Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[SnowDog1942]

Method of farming? Who cares

Cans of water? Who cares

Even less zombies than the less zombies they previously reduced it to? Thats one I care about

 

I would have preferred wilderness spawn levels to be an option with their default at what they are planning, clearly stating increasing this setting will adversly affect performance.

 

In addition I would have preferred the reduction to coincide with getting random encounters. Instead of playing A18 for a year in a more lifeless world.

 

Its suprising to see with how much work went into things like occlusion culling and other optimizations and we still have to resort to this (reduce zombies). The root cause of the massive performance loss between A16 and A17 was clearly NOT the number of zeds in the wilderness. Was it ever identified?

 

I can honestly say this is the first bummer A18 news, but, I hope Madmole will prove me wrong and we see just how all the pieces if A18 fit together as a whole next month.

[blenna13]

Long time lurker, posted once or twice. Also kickstarted the game back in the day.

Just gotta say removing zombies from the wilderness makes me pretty furious.

 

Like farming who cares, probs for the better. But removing zombie spawns from the wilderness is some real dumb ♥♥♥♥. For what? Random encounters in a year for a19? That is BS TFPآ’s.

 

Guppy, I know you aint a dev but my god my dude Iآ’ve been lurking here for years and you damn well should be. You know what this game needs. Keep up the good fight brother, but Iآ’m afraid the ships going down.

 

I canآ’t wait for A19 when Joel is talking ♥♥♥♥ about A18, and how bad it was recieved, same thing heآ’s doing with A17 now.

Sorry but thats the way youآ’re heading removing threat from the world and forcing people to go into POIآ’s or BM to experience Zeds.

 

Sorry for the huge post, passionate and frustrated fan here who will probs get chewed out by MM as Iآ’ve seen him do to others.

Donآ’t care. Iآ’ve had enough.

[ZombieHorde]

It would be nice to have a version of the farm plot that was shaped like a plate as well.

That way, we wont get that gap between it and the terrain.

 

Yes! That's exactly what I was thinking. The wooden textures themselves are nice, but what the boxes do to the land isn't nice at all.

[MechanicalLens]

Long time lurker, posted once or twice. Also kickstarted the game back in the day.

Just gotta say removing zombies from the wilderness makes me pretty furious.

 

Like farming who cares, probs for the better. But removing zombie spawns from the wilderness is some real dumb ♥♥♥♥. For what? Random encounters in a year for a19? That is BS TFPآ’s.

 

Guppy, I know you aint a dev but my god my dude Iآ’ve been lurking here for years and you damn well should be. You know what this game needs. Keep up the good fight brother, but Iآ’m afraid the ships going down.

 

I canآ’t wait for A19 when Joel is talking ♥♥♥♥ about A18, and how bad it was recieved, same thing heآ’s doing with A17 now.

Sorry but thats the way youآ’re heading removing threat from the world and forcing people to go into POIآ’s or BM to experience Zeds.

 

Sorry for the huge post, passionate and frustrated fan here who will probs get chewed out by MM as Iآ’ve seen him do to others.

Donآ’t care. Iآ’ve had enough.

 

That's not going to happen. Gosh, if I created this ♥♥♥♥storm, then... *Kicks myself in the foot* :/

 

Unless you meant the reduction of spawns. Yesh, that will be a thing.

[meganoth]

The root cause of the massive performance loss between A16 and A17 was clearly NOT the number of zeds in the wilderness. Was it ever identified?

 

My guess:

Graphics bling-bling was my impression as one major culprit (more texture/shader passes). And the new buff system might be another (secret) cause. More complex AI surely cost as well. Flexibility (i.e. putting more options into the xml) did generally add cycles everywhere.

[Guest Rassilon]

Is this madmole second account?

 

 

Nah, just someone who agrees with him in 2 of 10 topics where the other 8 i normally not agree^^.

 

Lets face it: What do the strainer-Zombies at all, besides killing Lowbies and making them ragequit?

 

Id rather have more screamers/wandering hordes.

 

And Pre A16 all POIs were empty and looted in 5 minutes. Boring af.

[meganoth]

And Pre A16 all POIs were empty and looted in 5 minutes. Boring af.

 

Hehe, imagine having one of the tier5 buildings put into A15, without any sleepers inside. What a completely ridiculous scenario that would be!

[Grymgem]

out of place for such a small rework of a 0.1% gametime feature.

 

 

One of the most appealing aspects of 7d2d for me is the simulation direction. I believe this game has essential infrastructure for our reality simulations. Westworld, the matrix etc.

 

I for one lament the decisions made to move this one of a kind gem towards obscurity in a genre that is quite saturated.

 

I understand this game will never be a 1:1 simulation of reality, and tfp have made some great decisions to reinforce fun over realism.

 

But so few games have the potential to be framework for a high fidelity simulation of reality. When systems that reinforce that uniqueness are pushed the other direction it moves this project closer to traditional games, and further from ready player one.

[ZombieHorde]

I don't understand how this is viewed as a backwards, not lateral, step in complexity. The hoe isn't removed, the gate of forging or looting one is. Fertilizer has actually returned and we don't need a cement mixer to make the stuff. (still, RIP turds) Teaching new players is as simple as telling them to search for the recipe rather than all the steps.

 

Old farming was never immersive in my opinion. The hoe was instantly useless(this isn't even a tool I use IRL-shovels and trowels are sufficient and serve more purposes. I avoid uni-task tools.). There wasn't any "working the land". You just hoed and planted, then you were done. No weeding, soil testing, pest control, pruning, training, adding supports, on-going fertilization, watering or anything else that I do and enjoy everyday in real life.

 

Additionally, they look ♥♥♥♥ing great. My favorite part is not needing the extra area for the plates to cover the density gap. I foresee myself using these in places where I already decorate with plants and now I don't have to be annoyed by looking at a voxel gap OR making space for the plates surrounding them.

 

Finally, I love them because in this whole mess Madmole mentioned tentative plans for the hoe returning as a tool to manipulate density. Have you ever made a winding dirt road climbing a mountain in this game? I have wasted so much time hoeing each block to a certain HP, then fine-tuning with a chainsaw, all while occasionally going too far with some blocks and having to replace them and start from full HP. God I want a block density manipulator so badly.

 

Anway, just wanted to add some more noise to the shout-fest before farming is off-topic.

 

It's backwards because the things you have to do is just more of the same as everything else. It's harder by making the recipe 1, 2, 3 and now 4. Great! Except I've already spent an hour collecting item 1, item 2 was a battle to find, item 3 is just more of the same and item 4 needs something so exciting..oh wait, no, it needs either looting or digging again. Great!

 

Whereas the difference in tilling the land was a different game mechanic that even that little difference made the game feel like it had in-depth processes in it. Even the fact it was much more natural to prepare the soil in real life and plant the seed in the natural environment. Not in boxes that, in my opinion, don't look good because of the terrain blocks next to them.

 

It this was added onto the old system, then great. Now you are adding realistic choices, too. Multiple ways to do things are great!

 

And as much as I love the game still, it's sad that the fan base that got the game off the starting blocks are slowly having things taken away that, in many of our opinion, isn't for the best. Similar to removing the moulds in the forge. That was a system that made sense and was sufficiently staged that it felt rewarding to finish that task so you could make bullet tips (or whatever). Now, just have the material and click go. So easy it might as well just not be there to begin with.

 

 

Sorry, Madmole. We do love you and we love this game but I think what you love about the game is maybe a bit biased and defensive because it's your game and you want it gold asap. And rightly so; you have a lot to be proud of and we all want it gold. But of course not at the sacrifice of what we love about the game.

[Locusta]

Can a new player play a no-crafting challenge, though?

 

Why so much emphasis on the new player? Like seriously? Where is this coming from?

 

I think you are forgetting that today’s gamers are pretty good at figuring things out. They have more resources at their disposal than ever before. If they get stuck, they’ll watch their favourite Youtuber or streamer to help them figure it out. Is that really a bad thing?

 

If farming is actually relevant now and the concern is to keep people in-game, then why not add small tutorials on how to do things? The tab beside the quests (can’t remember it because I never use it) is/was supposed to be the place to explain how to do things in the game. That tab is severely under-used imo.

 

 

Loc

[SnowDog1942]

Why so much emphasis on the new player? Like seriously? Where is this coming from?

 

I think you are forgetting that today’s gamers are pretty good at figuring things out. They have more resources at their disposal than ever before. If they get stuck, they’ll watch their favourite Youtuber or streamer to help them figure it out. Is that really a bad thing?

 

I used to have to read nintendo power magazines

[blenna13]

Thanks MechanicalLens for clearing that up.

Iآ’m sure I read Joel talking about the complete removal as they add nothing. Like 90% sure.

 

Thats the kinda thing that really worries me with 7 Days, all this static terrain talk, changes to farming, removal of wild zeds for performance...

 

Why all these major knee jerk changes or ideas for change. Like we had fertilizer, then lost it in a17, now we have it again coz now its آ“worth itآ” apparently? Or coz it suits your new shiny perk system?

 

Why is the main dev only now playing his game, and making such drastic changes while borderline bullying the ppl who are used to the old ways. I get some changes are certainly for the better, but most of the big ones are recieved with nothing but distain, and its like آ“you guys donآ’t know coz you aint playing 18آ”.

You said the same thing for 17 dude, look how that worked out.

 

PS. Lucky Looter should not be a perk, dno why that ♥♥♥♥ hasnآ’t been addressed. Make it a gamestage or level thing.

[sillls]

7 days to die release today:

that will be fun ^^

(yeah right, not A18 but still a release)

 

So what is being released?

[MechanicalLens]

Thanks MechanicalLens for clearing that up.

Iآ’m sure I read Joel talking about the complete removal as they add nothing. Like 90% sure.

 

Thats the kinda thing that really worries me with 7 Days, all this static terrain talk, changes to farming, removal of wild zeds for performance...

 

Why all these major knee jerk changes or ideas for change. Like we had fertilizer, then lost it in a17, now we have it again coz now its آ“worth itآ” apparently? Or coz it suits your new shiny perk system?

 

Why is the main dev only now playing his game, and making such drastic changes while borderline bullying the ppl who are used to the old ways. I get some changes are certainly for the better, but most of the big ones are recieved with nothing but distain, and its like آ“you guys donآ’t know coz you aint playing 18آ”.

You said the same thing for 17 dude, look how that worked out.

 

PS. Lucky Looter should not be a perk, dno why that ♥♥♥♥ hasnآ’t been addressed. Make it a gamestage or level thing.

 

You'll have nothing to worry about.

 

And I'm not arguing you with here, but it's odd how everyone I know (including yourself, I guess) dislikes Lucky Looter being a purchasable perk and that they prefer Scavenging... When we had Quality Joe back in the day, and no one made a scene about that. Just saying...

[ZombieHorde]

Completely disagree, there are not enough wild zombie spawns actually. If the wasteland had trees I'd stay there for the thrills. (and no, ninja animals are not a thrill)

 

Yes. I don't get it, either. I'm not hugely fussed about this one, but if the game is designed for a system to support 8 Z's per person on horde night, what difference does it matter with a few wondering z's here and there outside of POI's?

 

And if there really is a performance loss, there is far too much CPU work going into those entities. Dumb down the AI for those situations instead of reducing something that is completely probable in the style of the environment and adds to the game.

[DaVegaNL]

Method of farming? Who cares

Cans of water? Who cares

Even less zombies than the less zombies they previously reduced it to? Thats one I care about

 

I would have preferred wilderness spawn levels to be an option with their default at what they are planning, clearly stating increasing this setting will adversly affect performance.

 

In addition I would have preferred the reduction to coincide with getting random encounters. Instead of playing A18 for a year in a more lifeless world.

 

Its suprising to see with how much work went into things like occlusion culling and other optimizations and we still have to resort to this (reduce zombies). The root cause of the massive performance loss between A16 and A17 was clearly NOT the number of zeds in the wilderness. Was it ever identified?

 

I can honestly say this is the first bummer A18 news, but, I hope Madmole will prove me wrong and we see just how all the pieces if A18 fit together as a whole next month.

 

You can always cry on my shoulder.

[Gamida]

3 suggestions I could make:

 

First, reduce the size of the planter box by half. Then it looks more natural when sitting on flat ground or make both sizes available.

 

Second, you could make both versions of farming applicable. Return the need to fertilize using the same ingredients for the planter minus the wood but requires the hoe. The planter would not need the hoe.

 

Third, giving the hoe the ability to shape the land for aesthetic reasons gives it another use without being required for survival.

 

Apologize if these suggestions have been made already but there's many pages of comments about this topic.

 

I was thinking the same thing about the height of the box. I was thinking even smaller though. If it was only the height of a plate. When placed on the ground it would look like the box was just barely sticking out. I think that would also not show the gap so it would look nicer than digging a hole and placing it in there. So same thing as now only box is about 2 or 3 cm high.

[MajorMunchy]

That's great, but what the hell does vanilla have to do with what he's doing?

 

WAYYY late to this BUT, I might like to add ( delete if not allowed anymore lol )

 

modder: I have so many fans and they know what they want listen to me i know what im doing

MM: *flops hellcat on table*...nuff said

[SnowDog1942]

You can always cry on my shoulder.

 

Last time you offered it ended up NOT being a shoulder. Fool me once.....

[ZombieHorde]

I have to ask.. what survival experience? Survival implies that you have to overcome something. Weather? Food? Thirst? Yes there are enemies in the game, but that would imply that any WW2-shooter out there can be classified as a survival game..

 

Yep! Yep! Yep!

 

Not even remotely accurate.

 

Every time I or a group of us started a new game, the hunt was on for a cooking pot. Every time we found one, there was rejoicing. Every. Time. To be able to go from making a single drink of clean water (and clean water only), to mass producing clean water, or making teas/coffee/what have you, was a leap of progress. It looked, smelt, felt and tasted like progress.

 

You guys screwed it up by making cooking pots more common than Roland having to prune the DD thread of cruft.

 

Changing the system so you can boil glass jars of murky water is identical to boiling cans of water, with *zero* drawbacks. So if the old system was "a turd", then the new system is "the scoots."

 

-A

 

PS - the issue isn't whether it can be modded or not to our taste. The issue is the design decisions you guys are making all scream "dumb it down."

 

Yep! Yep! Yep! I miss those times where even water was a challenge.

 

And it wasn't due to me not knowing how to play the game properly. It was somehow balanced much more like a survival game back then.

[Genosis]

I used to have to read nintendo power magazines

 

Lol right? How the hell else would we have found out squatting on top of that white block in SMB3 would let you fall behind the scenes for that secret whistle?

 

Alternatively thinking the players believe "use hoe to till soil to plant crops" is too obscure is a hard one to swallow. Isn't this what the journal entries are for? A contextual pop up when you find a seed or a hoe to tell you how the farming system works? A gaming system doesn't need to be watered down to be completely intuitive without any instruction, but it should be designed well enough to click when it is introduced contextually. Like in many other games, pick up a gun. A pop up says "Press R to reload, left click to shoot, right click to aim". Ok got it. Pick up a seed, pop up says "use a hoe to till the soil to allow for planting seed. Wait until it grows to harvest". Oh ok cool, that makes sense.

 

Again, I like crop plots, but as an option. The hoe has more utility when it was used to till and subsequently upgrade the soil to become fertilized soil, which made more sense to increase crop yield than spending points to. I felt A16 did that better, though I do like the improved remaining seed feature so you didnt have to replant all the time.

 

I believe this needs more thought, but hey we're all just passengers on this ride. I'm grateful we have the ability to have a dialog here to discuss it. (preferably without the rage and drama)

[Locusta]

I used to have to read nintendo power magazines

 

I was in the same boat.

 

 

Loc

[blenna13]

Quality Joe was stupid too.

Things like loot quality should be a gamestage or level thing.

Like buying a perk to dismember limbs. Also stupid. I believe thats fixed for 18 tho.

Lot of questionable decisions and changes and views on what the game should be.

Just my two cents tho.

 

My gf has like 10 hrs in game and laughed when I read joels comments about spending hours online figuring out how to farm.

Shes a dead set spud at games but even she finds the idea of it being too hard laughable.

A stone hoe would really have fixed any concerns of it being too hard tbh.

[unholyjoe]

I was in the same boat.

 

 

Loc

 

i was on the ground and had to read comic books and field and stream or readers digest for entertainment... we didnt have pc's and computer games back then.... close but wasnt there in the 60s into 70s.

[MechanicalLens]

Quality Joe was stupid too.

Things like loot quality should be a gamestage or level thing.

Like buying a perk to dismember limbs. Also stupid. I believe thats fixed for 18 tho.

Lot of questionable decisions and changes and views on what the game should be.

Just my two cents tho.

 

My gf has like 10 hrs in game and laughed when I read joels comments about spending hours online figuring out how to farm.

Shes a dead set spud at games but even she finds the idea of it being too hard laughable.

A stone hoe would really have fixed any concerns of it being too hard tbh.

 

Regardless, you have to look at two sides. 500 players vs 1 million new players. And I'd hate to say it, but the majority of new players to any game are noobs. Idiots. Just saying. *Shrugs*

 

It's not that farming was too hard; it's just that it was too overly complex for something so simple.