Locusta Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Lol right? How the hell else would we have found out squatting on top of that white block in SMB3 would let you fall behind the scenes for that secret whistle? Alternatively thinking the players believe "use hoe to till soil to plant crops" is too obscure is a hard one to swallow. Isn't this what the journal entries are for? A contextual pop up when you find a seed or a hoe to tell you how the farming system works? A gaming system doesn't need to be watered down to be completely intuitive without any instruction, but it should be designed well enough to click when it is introduced contextually. Like in many other games, pick up a gun. A pop up says "Press R to reload, left click to shoot, right click to aim". Ok got it. Pick up a seed, pop up says "use a hoe to till the soil to allow for planting seed. Wait until it grows to harvest". Oh ok cool, that makes sense. Again, I like crop plots, but as an option. The hoe has more utility when it was used to till and subsequently upgrade the soil to become fertilized soil, which made more sense to increase crop yield than spending points to. I felt A16 did that better, though I do like the improved remaining seed feature so you didnt have to replant all the time. I believe this needs more thought, but hey we're all just passengers on this ride. I'm grateful we have the ability to have a dialog here to discuss it. (preferably without the rage and drama) This is what I’ve been saying! The Journal tab is useless at the moment. It should trigger on screen tutorials as you do things to help explain them with the option to skip that tutorial or all of them (for us vets). I’m happy someone else gets it. Loc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genosis Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Regardless, you have to look at two sides. 500 players vs 1 million new players. And I'd hate to say it, but the majority of new players to any game are noobs. Idiots. Just saying. *Shrugs* It's not that farming was too hard; it's just that it was too overly complex for something so simple. I think the problem with the farming system is that it doesn't need to be easier, it needs to be easier to learn. Make a more approachable contextual learning system. A few popups to go along with the already contextual journal system would bridge that gap with those people who might genuinely wonder "A hoe? What's that for? Seeds? Do I just rub them on the ground or what?". And yeah, a stone hoe is already a thing in other mods. A stone hoe could till soil, but maybe you need an iron hoe to make fertilized soil. But that just complicates things. I dunno, like the farming meta system. Should be more diverse to justify it's existence, not less. Survival isn't just looting and killing, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechanicalLens Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 I think the problem with the farming system is that it doesn't need to be easier, it needs to be easier to learn. Make a more approachable contextual learning system. A few popups to go along with the already contextual journal system would bridge that gap with those people who might genuinely wonder "A hoe? What's that for? Seeds? Do I just rub them on the ground or what?". And yeah, a stone hoe is already a thing in other mods. A stone hoe could till soil, but maybe you need an iron hoe to make fertilized soil. But that just complicates things. I dunno, like the farming meta system. Should be more diverse to justify it's existence, not less. Survival isn't just looting and killing, after all. Well, regardless, the new system is in place, it's probably not going to change. No offense, but you're beating a dead horse here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 13, 2019 Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 I’m pretty sure you can. What I meant is that it isn’t as good to use as it once was. Gaining access to hops and growing them for beer was an ultimate goal at one time. Coffee is pretty good, and IMO better to use than beer is now, but not like how beer used to be. Beer is a short term melee damage boost, works great with knuckles. Coffee increases damage to ores and boosts stamina, drink 3 at once to stack the duration and mine all night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechanicalLens Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 This is what I’ve been saying! The Journal tab is useless at the moment. It should trigger on screen tutorials as you do things to help explain them with the option to skip that tutorial or all of them (for us vets). I’m happy someone else gets it. Loc It's not that it's useless; just unrefined. You can't pause the game while you're reading it, the text style is messy and mostly text walls, there are no pictures for engagement and interest... Just my personal critique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unholyjoe Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Regardless, you have to look at two sides. 500 players vs 1 million new players. And I'd hate to say it, but the majority of new players to any game are noobs. Idiots. Just saying. *Shrugs* It's not that farming was too hard; it's just that it was too overly complex for something so simple. yep but for me... nothing in the game was hard,, i just didnt want to do any farming back in the day because if i wanted to play a farming simulator.. i'd bought one of the dozens out there. as it is now... i like having to gather the resources to make a plot and place it down where i want it and if i want to move it... i break out the shovel and i can get the plot placed in my inventory. with all the argument over the plots... nobody seems to have mentioned that ark has plots you craft and place down too. all this frees me up to go out bashing zombie skulls and petting the puppies and teddy bears..... <runs away before rabbit sees me> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 13, 2019 Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 I aggree. Can plant boxes be placed horizontally or even upside down ? It is absolutely necessary for my new architectural style combining Gaudi's naturalism with M.C.Escher's topology. I love it when people start a dialog with themselves via alternate account Not sure if we let you do weird rotations or any of that. Might be able to grow upside down cor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locusta Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Regardless, you have to look at two sides. 500 players vs 1 million new players. And I'd hate to say it, but the majority of new players to any game are noobs. Idiots. Just saying. *Shrugs* It's not that farming was too hard; it's just that it was too overly complex for something so simple. ♥♥♥♥ting on your current player base’s concerns for some assumption of mass amounts of new players is a great plan... Farming doesn’t need to be a simulation, but it was close to being something worth investing skill points and time into. It also helped with giving a balance of intense action and downtime. Without the time investment, imo, it takes away a possible play style and choice of how to spend time in a game that’s basically a race against time every week. Loc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorMunchy Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 new vid/pic for tweeter Pictures of all the frames/building blocks maybe? Seeing those new wood frames got me titilated o.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 13, 2019 Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 And that is how you shut trolls... Though I respect Jax and his work, and I know he is not troll, just that he get in middle of such cute comment. We have to make the game accessible and easy to get hooked on, he has to make it hardcore/diferent for those looking to extend the life of the vanilla product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Will there be anything triggering my Trypophobia in A18? (If so, please remove all of it. It's unfair that I need to suffer just to usher in some new feature.) -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerfly Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Beer is a short term melee damage boost, works great with knuckles. Coffee increases damage to ores and boosts stamina, drink 3 at once to stack the duration and mine all night! Yes ! Wanted these two be more effective and improve experience so much, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 13, 2019 Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 A18 will go down as the: "Get off your lazy ass!" build. NOW, I believe, you have to explore the world... hard. Because GameStage will eat you if you piss around too much. I love and hate the demo zombie, which means WELL DONE TFP! No more working during hoard night for me, I have to engage at least THAT GUY! So now I will look and listen for him and unleash as much hell on him as I can! GOD, how I want to play A18 now. Yes 18 is legit fun, I can't wait to get it out to you guys and transform the community. I'll say it again, don't turn up the XP because you need time to prepare for the impending doom and time to loot good gear to deal with it. You don't need 120 perks to be awesome anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locusta Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 It's not that it's useless; just unrefined. You can't pause the game while you're reading it, the text style is messy and mostly text walls, there are no pictures for engagement and interest... Just my personal critique. By useless I mean it doesn’t help the player at the time it needs to be explained because it’s hidden in a menu. It doesn’t make sense to try something, fail at it, then 20 mins later when you’re in the menu doing something else, click the tab and be like “oh, that could have helped me 20 minutes ago!”. That’s not intuitive at all imo. Loc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 13, 2019 Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 Very nice, testing the INT build. I hope you can go full INT, it would certainly enlighten many of us who recently, erm, 'discussed' it 😆 No I'm doing perception right now, but I could try perception/int but that leaves me a bit weak on armor but that might be fine. I did fid a turret last night plopped it down behind a rabbit and it instantly one shotted it at 2 meters away lol. Was awesome because the crude bow, is well crude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechanicalLens Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Yes 18 is legit fun, I can't wait to get it out to you guys and transform the community. I'll say it again, don't turn up the XP because you need time to prepare for the impending doom and time to loot good gear to deal with it. You don't need 120 perks to be awesome anymore. I typically play either on 90 minute days (just to give me some more resource gathering time) or 60 minute days. I'm curious, how do you think a 90 minute playthrough will fair in A18? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 O.O More repetitive than the same enemies just spawning randomly?(EDIT: more repetitive than lumberjacks in the snow biome? I'd love to see something other than that there.) I am with the crowd that fondly remembers the killfest that old cities were, but this is not that. This is removing a bunch of worthless spawns that are just there to fill space. I drive or run past that stuff half the time, anyway. I really think the tired old "OH LORD LET'S HAND OUT THE PARTICIPATION TROPHIES" reactions are just kneejerk reactions with misplaced anger. I am looking forward to better FPS and targeted encounters instead of spawning a half dozen zombies and pretending that that's a busy, immersive world. - - - Updated - - - Except the cougars, apart from maybe one blood-curdling roar just before they rip the back of your skull off. As frustrating as it could be to die to them, I loved the jumpscare those things provided in Red Dead Redemption. I can't think of anything scarier in that game. If you think you're going to see a performance increase because by zombies were cut in half you are quite mistaken. I don't care what kind of potato you have, biome zombies never amounted to more zombies in on a blood moon... ...and if your PC could handle those then your PC could handle biome zombies. Sometimes I would see a poi in the distance, and I might want to go investigate, but then I might see three or four snow zombies milling about, and I had to rethink visiting the POI because of those zombies. Now I don't even have to worry about seeing them. Straight to the POI so I can cheese that AI. *Yawn* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 13, 2019 Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 Couldn't have said it better. I know I could be jumping the gun, but from the explanations from MM, it appears that the game is only going to concentrate on 4 survival aspects. Killing zombies, building your fort, looting and a small amount of crafting. You could say trader, food, gardening, perks, electricity, health, clothes and mining are becoming dumbed down systems that support the other 4, but are only less than 5% of the game now. Definitely don't seem to be the rich and rewarding systems they once were. Crafting pockets for clothing is now a thing I love to do early game. Complicated farming didn't make the game rich, it made it clunky AF. Just because you managed to learn it doesn't mean it was a good design for the game. I craft a ton of stuff, just not magenta things any more. Thank god, end game was way too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dregonazure Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Sleepers are not bad at all, but its a nature`s instinct for an animal to go out and look for food and water, or brains, wandering around. It is not inconvinience, it is how life works. Its nonsense that they will clear them from streets. I won`t talk about that anymore. Lets move on. i mean, these are zombies though, i think they already ignored how life works by existing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 10 million customers? Of which max 10 thousand are playing simultaneously? I guess there's a 0.001% remark in there somewhere.. Well 9 million of those are console users, and you already know how THEY feel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenGross Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 TFP thank you all for this interesting place to talk about how awesome A18 is and all the features! better farming, less ninja wolfs, a return to books in loot, better mining, quests, new POI's, perk tree fixes, different ways to play the game, the list goes on and on! i only have 120 hours in the game i am a newb but im excited to play and love all the news you have posted. not gonna lie Madmole has me scared im gonna die lots of times from making rookie mistakes and playing it like alpha 16 or 17. good times ahead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 13, 2019 Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 I like the new system. I'm surprised that no clay is needed in the recipe, but I accept that. The farming plots will save me space in my roof gardens. Do you need a perk or a book to build the farm pots ? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 The stone hoe is a good solution, not? Yes, but rather than find solutions it's easier for them to remove the entire system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kattla Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Does "random encounters" of zombies in the wild mean they will spawn right behind the player and make no noise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 For the people against this change, they'll get over it. Remember when the zombie AI was changed in A17? Or when radiateds were introduced in A16? Sleepers as well? People can choose to leave if they wish, but at the end of the day, the game benefits from these changes. The difference there, is that some changes are improvements and other changes are obvious setbacks. Apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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