meganoth Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 That's definitely a way to temporarily offset your reload penalty and gain about 6 double reloads worth of DPS (about 72 seconds as each pickup/reload/replace takes about 6 seconds). But in the grand scheme of a full horde night that's going to be a drop in the bucket and it requires alot of space. TBH this sounds infinitely more useful for non-turret spec than it does for turret spec because non-turret specs are the ones who suffer the most from the reload time since they outdps the turrets by so much. Turret spec would prolly prefer 4 turrets and always be reloading 2 turrets while the other 2 are firing. No way I'd do this without keeping rows of junk turret ammo in a chest nearby though. I'm planning on bringing 5,400 junk turret ammo to the Day 26 horde as it is. If I was to do this I'd bump that up to 7,000 and it still might not be enough. Not to mention that this makes the "gameplay" in turret spec would literally just be 20 minutes of doing nothing but reloading . The amount of downtime you spend manually reloading turrets already kind of sucks even maintaining 2 of them. *Edit: I'll do it for my next horde defense. I don't promise to enjoy it but it'll prolly amuse those watching the video at least. Now to farm all that iron :X. 4 Turrets, reloading always the empty ones to keep full turret uptime. When I first heard about the turrets my biggest surprise was that they had such a small ammo capacity. The reloading offsets their usefulness as "companion" greatly and your tests seem to substantiate that suspicion For example when you want to do melee while they blast the enemy you can't afford to reload them. Or like you said when you have a gun in hand the reload AND placing it again is real downtime. One thing about horde night: The main objective is to survive. As soon as the horde lasts all night your DPS isn't the most important stat but your ability to hold them off, slow them down and keep them from destroying your base. I don't have a problem with them having lower DPS even on horde night, but I have a problem with them being a constant maintenance cost when their main appeal should be their independance so you can act as trouble-shooter while they provide base dps and covering fire. tldr; They need a lot more ammo capacity, at least when perked into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBane Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 It got pushed back, we decided the perk overhaul should include 20 new weapons. You aren't disappointed I hope It won't take long, but we're polishing existing stuff before adding now, as we have so much content that needs love yet we might not even have it for a19 since we want to improve quest markers, dig quests etc. Hopefully we can get it in though. A18 is tremendous. Great job TFPs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survager Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 you got to tenderise the meat! - - - Updated - - - that happened to me. but idk about the marker thing. i just try not to uses the throw and was think of ideas for mods that would remove that throw and replace it with something else! edit im working on some ideas for it a i got a few ideas for weapon mods like the knuckles , stun baton , spear etc A spear without the ability to throw is a bad spear! =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hek Harris Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Can we get the Steam Game Page Recent News updated please. Streamer weekend is over & it would be nice to have the current XP News instead of an old event... When it's stable. Experimental version is not supposed to be advertised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haidrgna Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 No. It was specifically added to A18 to improve the look of terrain. It just has teething pains. I hope it is just teething pains, since it really messed up the use of custom biomes, or any custom terrain setup really. All non vanilla biomes are not being painted over with the correct texture (even if one is correctly defined in the biome xml as topsoil_block="terrForestGround" for example). All I get is some purplish alien landscape, with bricks on the grass. It also kills of any chance to make a mixed ground texture biome. Then there is the issue for world building or players wanting to place some off-biome terrain type in their base on the ground, it just gets painted over with the texture from the biome. I also like to mix up grass blocks in between asphalt blocks to make a more old overgrown looking world, but the grass gets painted with ashpalt, not only does this break any form of modding this, it will also confuse players if blocks can look like something they are not. I am hoping that if Microsplat is here to stay these issues can be addressed, maybe by some xml property on the block (so microsplat ignores it) and making the biomes read the proper xml attribute so they at least get the correct texture applied on blocks. I agree that it makes the textures nearby the player look great and adds more detail and less seams, but I would rather take the seams than losing all this modding design space the game has had since A17 in creating new and interesting biomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecolours Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 When it's stable. Experimental version is not supposed to be advertised. They could at least fo a better job of formatting their patch notes. Instead of separating each patch into it's own notes section, they crame the new notes with the old ones. Its mind boggling why they do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam the Waster Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 A spear without the ability to throw is a bad spear! =) well i was think of a blade on the back that you can slash with. or a lance mod that allows you to charge! somthing but i wont be as deadly as a spear throw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Well, I said one thing and MM said another. You can either believe him or me or both or neither or just be confused or unsure or take a nap or pretend you never read this. Here is how it really works. After dying during a blood moon you have a grace period of the rest of the night where you can use a wrench to pick up any land mine. Believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam the Waster Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Here is how it really works. After dying during a blood moon you have a grace period of the rest of the night where you can use a wrench to pick up any land mine. Believe me. i learned something today! you can get mines from wrenches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 When I first heard about the turrets my biggest surprise was that they had such a small ammo capacity. The reloading offsets their usefulness as "companion" greatly and your tests seem to substantiate that suspicion For example when you want to do melee while they blast the enemy you can't afford to reload them. Or like you said when you have a gun in hand the reload AND placing it again is real downtime. One thing about horde night: The main objective is to survive. As soon as the horde lasts all night your DPS isn't the most important stat but your ability to hold them off, slow them down and keep them from destroying your base. I don't have a problem with them having lower DPS even on horde night, but I have a problem with them being a constant maintenance cost when their main appeal should be their independance so you can act as trouble-shooter while they provide base dps and covering fire. tldr; They need a lot more ammo capacity, at least when perked into. When I first heard about them I assumed that they would be used to augment your own personal damage within the vicinity of where you are and that overall base defense would continue to be handled by the regular turrets we’ve had for ages now. Why anyone would abandon the regular turrets and try and use junk turrets for base defense instead is something I’m struggling to understand. If junk turrets are to be elevated to the same level as regular turrets then why have regular turrets? Or am I misunderstanding and people are complaining about the regular turrets on horde night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hek Harris Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 They could at least fo a better job of formatting their patch notes. Instead of separating each patch into it's own notes section, they crame the new notes with the old ones. Its mind boggling why they do this. They don't : https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?128629-Announcing-A18-b143-EXP-update! Just scroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trankitas Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Did my Day 21 horde with my strength build. I had 152 shotgun rounds, 250 for my ak and probably 80 for my pistol and 6 grenades, and a junk turret. My base was reinforced concrete 1 thick with 2 high iron spikes 1 row deep. I ran out of shotgun ammo and went for my Ak while using grenades on the big clusters. Then that ran out and they got into my base to the basement and were punching holes in my floor or their ceiling. I lured them back outside and was using my pistol until it ran out. I had no ammo so I ran to my forge and started scraping iron to make junk turret ammo, and got about 50 rounds in it and then used my club to finish off the rest with cover fire from the turret, and the horde ended about 3:45. I had 16 alive on Nomad, it was intense 3 words. Let's Play Series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorbascrumps Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 They don't : https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?128629-Announcing-A18-b143-EXP-update! Just scroll. He's referring the the official release notes which are posted on social: https://7daystodie.com/a18-official-release-notes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapeDrink Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 i learned something today! you can get mines from wrenches! Sarcasm is hard on the internet, so I cant tell, but...you probably shouldn't try this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam the Waster Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Sarcasm is hard on the internet, so I cant tell, but...you probably shouldn't try this one im being serious i didnt know you can pick them up thats why i dont uses them too much. but now i will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandDT Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 When I first heard about them I assumed that they would be used to augment your own personal damage within the vicinity of where you are and that overall base defense would continue to be handled by the regular turrets we’ve had for ages now. Why anyone would abandon the regular turrets and try and use junk turrets for base defense instead is something I’m struggling to understand. If junk turrets are to be elevated to the same level as regular turrets then why have regular turrets? Or am I misunderstanding and people are complaining about the regular turrets on horde night? People are finding various issues with the new Junk Turrets, even as supplemental damage to regular automated turrets. For one, there appears to be a bug that dismemberment chance is not increasing with perk points when the turret is deployed, only when held. For another, the requirement to pickup the turret to reload them, and then subsequently place it back down again, adds an extra layer of complexity to their use and requires extra time investment (~6 seconds as quoted by another player), thus cutting down their DPS (and, to an extent, limited their usefulness under duress). Also, the limited magazine size exacerbates this condition, requiring much more constant maintenance than with traditional automated turrets (although, at least at present, the Drum Magazine mod can be installed on Junk Turrets - not sure if this is a bug, or a feature). I think if they fix the dismemberment issue (along with any other bugs that may be present), and add an increased magazine capacity to the turret perk (for Junk Turrets only, if that is possible), it would greatly alleviate the main concerns people are having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam the Waster Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 People are finding various issues with the new Junk Turrets, even as supplemental damage to regular automated turrets. For one, there appears to be a bug that dismemberment chance is not increasing with perk points when the turret is deployed, only when held. For another, the requirement to pickup the turret to reload them, and then subsequently place it back down again, adds an extra layer of complexity to their use and requires extra time investment (~6 seconds as quoted by another player), thus cutting down their DPS (and, to an extent, limited their usefulness under duress). Also, the limited magazine size exacerbates this condition, requiring much more constant maintenance than with traditional automated turrets (although, at least at present, the Drum Magazine mod can be installed on Junk Turrets - not sure if this is a bug, or a feature). I think if they fix the dismemberment issue (along with any other bugs that may be present), and add an increased magazine capacity to the turret perk (for Junk Turrets only, if that is possible), it would greatly alleviate the main concerns people are having. i kinda like the junk turret! but i only have one real issue. i just think there too common! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I think two people, fully perked in "Dead Eye" and "The Penetrator", with Sniper rifles being fully modded, using AP rounds could: -Stand at the end of a long corridor with the largest BM horde in history. -Taking turns firing, would kill everything and use the least ammo possible! THERE, I won the internet! Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_ahriman Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Madmole, some food for thought. I think we get too much xp from "advanced" building: rebar frames + concrete will get you 2, 3 lvls super fast. Last night I decided to build a modified raised platform and test it tonight (day 28 horde). Xp gain was massive: 3 lvls, building a 13 x 13 platform (cage on top) and 16 pillars reinforced with plates. Ok, I spent 15k concrete on it, but 3 lvls is simply too much. I checked my gamestage before and it raised almost 20 points (111 now). Btw, there is a good chance I can test who is right: you said upon death if you not engage a zombie horde night is over; Faatal said it's a 30 seconds "safe zone" and then if a zombies sees you, horde is back. My workshop is underground (bedrock) so if I die I"ll not engage any zombie, but "technically" they couldn't see me either unless gps is on after 30 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungryZombie Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Also, with that sort of kiting scheme it'd almost certainly compromise their directed entrance to my base. Right now I've got 3 sides heavily fortified with double layer walls and an open door towards that front that leads into a small room of fricken death and gore. No mazing, just thick walls with one entrance and alot of guns trained on it and electric fences . Because turret effective range is about 5 blocks. At 7ish blocks they are missing noticeably more and already suffer -15% damage from range falloff and that only gets worse the further out you go. Even Pistol has full damage until like 12 blocks. Have you thought about how to deal with demolishers showing up and how the 1 kill room will deal with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam the Waster Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Have you thought about how to deal with demolishers showing up and how the 1 kill room will deal with them? break its legs, headshots , AP rounds, or fire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuratowakiru Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 @TFP staff Not sure who work on model collision box to address to, but a QOL request, could we have a slightly smaller collision box on barbwire fence? it impossible to repair anything underneath it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralathar44 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 This seems very much like a bug. I hope you've reported this in the forums! Also, have you seen JaWoodle's video regarding turrets inheriting player damage mods? Surely it's a bug/exploit, but a neat thing to try out (if you're into that sort of thing). Wield a flaming weapon, and your turret will inherit the chance to proc enemies on fire. Personally, I think if they fixed what appears to be an obvious bug with placed Turrets and their bonuses, they should be very viable. Increasing the base magazine capacity (I forgot to mention they can use the Drum Magazine mod, as well - also seems like a bug/exploit, but would help mitigate some of the issues) should alleviate your main complaint about turrets: DPS drops off sharply due to having to reload constantly. If we could reload without picking them up, and/or if the base magazine size was higher (say ~100, give or take 20 for randomization), and/or if magazine capacity grew with perk investment, I feel you'd find specializing in Turrets much more viable. Just food for thought. They fixed the turret inheriting your wielded weapons stuff. You can no longer flame or electrify enemies just by wielding your firey stun baton and swinging as it fires. So that Jawoodle video is outdated. That wasn't right and deserved to be fixed TBH. I can also understand why the dismemberment bonus not working with turrets could be a balancing feature. The combined fire rate of the turrets would be dismembering constantly. Not only that but it'd be mainly arms and legs due to their low head shot amount so it could even be detrimental if turrets ended up making legions of crawlers that were then too low to be seen/shot and beat down your lower blocks from complete safety. When I first heard about the turrets my biggest surprise was that they had such a small ammo capacity. The reloading offsets their usefulness as "companion" greatly and your tests seem to substantiate that suspicion For example when you want to do melee while they blast the enemy you can't afford to reload them. Or like you said when you have a gun in hand the reload AND placing it again is real downtime. One thing about horde night: The main objective is to survive. As soon as the horde lasts all night your DPS isn't the most important stat but your ability to hold them off, slow them down and keep them from destroying your base. I don't have a problem with them having lower DPS even on horde night, but I have a problem with them being a constant maintenance cost when their main appeal should be their independance so you can act as trouble-shooter while they provide base dps and covering fire. tldr; They need a lot more ammo capacity, at least when perked into. It should be noted that they can use drum magazines, this finally get them to a point where you don't have to constantly baby them and can shoot more than half a clip yourself before needing to reload them again. But the leveling process definitely did feel weird as your rate of fire on them increases and then you have to spend more and more time reloading even with Bandolier and the +20% reload bonus. I'd say if they want to leave them lower DPS, that's a perfectly fine option, but in that case they should prolly give them a mag size bonus to match their fire rate bonus as part of the skill. Then the comments about "but you can fire another weapon while they are out" would have alot more weight because that would become very true with +120% mag size (equal to the fire rate) from the skill + drum mag. It'd still feel pretty off to have to use off perk weapons to do half of your DPS and due to your lower off perk damage you'd prolly spend almost as much ammo as a specialist, but it would at least solve the constant maintenance and relative DPS competitiveness issues. But again my preferred route is to make the handheld turret worthwhile and tie the lesser maintenance to using Int weapons so that Int can stand on it's own without relying on off perk weapons like every other stat can. Increasing the DPS of the build not by increasing turret DPS directly but by letting you add the handheld in as a viable, but weak on it's own, supplemental weapon and reducing the reload maintenance for people who skill into them so you actually have time to fire it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Btw, there is a good chance I can test who is right: you said upon death if you not engage a zombie horde night is over; Faatal said it's a 30 seconds "safe zone" and then if a zombies sees you, horde is back. Test mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam the Waster Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Test mine. you kinda level up faster there too! even if your just hitting stones all day! i had a steel pick and was getting stone's. and i hit around 10 or 15 rocks underground and got around 4000 Xp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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