Jump to content


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Ralathar44

  1. I partially agree and partially disagree. If everything is fun and viable then I think it's acceptable. However if you have one attribute that's way better or worse than the others I do think it drains away some of the fun once you've played other things and realize how far behind something is or how far ahead something else is. That being said in current state of the game I don't have a problem with the balance of any overall attribute. Some are stronger/weaker but not by enough to matter much unless you crank up the difficulty alot. That being said "feel" does matter too, which is why we all discussed sniper rifles before. Even if perception as a whole is totally fine, and I disagree personally on people insisting spear is bad, Snipers definitely feel lacking compared to other weapons. They can do the job, but after you play other weapons they definitely don't feel as fun because you're aware of just how far behind they are. I still enjoy them, but it's a factor to be sure. Also, perception is heavily carried balance wise by the explosives line since explosives are completely OP even without the skill line.
  2. One of the reasons I decided double the values of the lockpicking perk was fine. It's a niche benefit and it gives people that don't want to deal with the RNG lockpick mechanic the ability to essentially "opt out" for a cost. As an aside, the longer the lockpick mechanic has been in game the less I've liked it. I was originally ok with it but it's now starting to get really REALLY annoying. There's no interactivity, it's pure rng, and you could succeed first try or break 20 lockpicks on something and it's just a frustrating experience. Basically anything that lowers the amount of rng breaking at this point would be an improvement to me. Especially that last 3 seconds that ends up taking 30 seconds because of constantly breaking lockpicks and the timer resetting.
  3. You'd have to carry it around in your inventory at all times and purchase it though. Then remember to eat it :P. That being said, you can see by my suggested buff to the lockpicking perk how much ground I believe it needs to cover to be ok. I suggesting literally doubling it's values as well as adding a small loot bonus to the opened safe/chest. The loot buff would be something jailbreakers cannot provide and at a doubled value it's way better than jailbreakers. Though TBH I'd expect jailbreakers to be cut in half along that with change. It'd still be a significant lockpicking buff worth carrying around for anyone not rocking perception.
  4. Agreed. I liked Junk turrets alot, but in their original release they were great for everyone BUT Int spec and that was not ok. They couldn't pull their own weight as a weapon. So I tested and commented on threads and made videos. And after giving a bit of pushback initially TFP went back and drastically improved the functionality of junk turrets both in terms of usability/QOL but in terms of balance too. I need to do an int run to see where the most bit of help put them. I'll call for nerfs if I think they are needed just as quickly as I would call for buffs. I'll enjoy them regardless of their exact balancing, but I DO want options to be competitive and not totally underwhelming or overwhelming. +/-15% of the power level of most other options is fine, I grade on the jedi/mana curve :D. When it comes to balance affecting stuff, balance matters regardless of if someone is ok or not ok with it :D. I'm not terribly concerned about the exact gradient of balance, that's more of a subjective feel thing I can adapt to pretty easily unless the disconnect is extreme, but it should be consistent balance. Both lockpicking perk and cardio need buffs. Lockpicking is useful and the perk is useful, just nowhere near enough to justify points. Our points are very limited now, it's not like the old days you could just sling those points around. Lockpicking just doesn't make the cut in the current skill point economy. If it was twice as good AND it gave you a SMALL buff to the loot quality within the chest/safe you opened it might be worth taking again. But as is? Waste of points IMO. Cardio used to be fantastic but it just isn't anymore. Either it needs to get more added to the skill or it should be rolled into Well Insulated and then give the combined perk a new name like "Survivalist" or something. I'm more optimistic than that. I feel like they do seem to adjust over time for the better. I'm both happy that they are willing to give pushback and fight for their vision and happy that they seem to be willing to re-evaluate things later too. IMO that's how it should be.
  5. If there was ever a skill that let you build one time traps like spikes, mines, and maybe add a few new ones like deadfalls, log traps, etc then I hope it'd just give you a set amount of exp for every zombie nearby that died to one of those traps within your claimed land area. It was a bit of a rant but the way you presented it felt warranted and pretty on target. My flavor text in the quote was more for the sake of levity than anything :P. The loot in them being stone or low tier isn't much of a problem, but them being locked and having that loot is an issue because locks take significant amount of lockpick or time to defeat so it throws the investment vs reward out of wack. Some people are upset about what spawns EVERYWHERE, but it's consistent at least. However the safes/locked chests spawning the same value of stuff in general as non-locked stuff is a definitive imbalance. Even if you're getting useful higher level stone tools from them that's not worth the time or the lock picks because you'll upgrade those tools from other loot soon anyways.
  6. Yeah, making sure spears never fell through the world (or if they do they end up somewhere you can still get) is important too. Though I personally have never had it happen since they put a UI element on it. TBH I think when they have POI specific gamestage code in the next update they should make all low gamestage loot unlocked and have a looted appearance if possible. Solves people's perceptions about what they "should" contain and also prevents you from needing to invest so much effort into a durable locked safe that no longer has the same returns that used to justify defeating those locks.
  7. I think spears are close to where they need to be. They are fantastic as a stealth melee weapon and if your aim is good they are ok in a fight too with throws. Jabby jabby is pretty weak so normally only after a throw to finish a zombie off. Once the toolbelt is fixed so you can throw multiple spears and picking them up puts them back on your toolbelt (right now only 1 goes back to the toolbelt) spears should be in alright shape. They'd still need some help to compete with the best melee weapons but they're viable enough. Rifles really only have penetration over everything else. In practice their range and single shot damage just doesn't matter. Especially with all the random decaps that other guns can get. They can get the job done when played well but they are definitely not on the level of other guns, bows, or even junk turrets. If they're going to compete as slower refire high damage per shot weapons then they need to straight up wreck tougher enemies IMO. Explosives also feels kinda weird under perception. Explosives are so strong they completely overshadow the weapons. I kinda feel like there should be another stat that focuses on explosives and fire and mines and spike traps and etc and that baseline bombs should be nerfed a bit since even baseline explosives are stupid good and cheap.
  8. Burnt means free coal for fires and much more visible/audible world spawn zombies. Just don't let them hit you :D.
  9. Welp, mulitple builds have issues with demos so they prolly need some overall tweaking. But IMO that's when you switch off to your crossbow with flaming bolts and headshot them :P. TBH I'd be happy if a workstation had like a 2 row inventory of it's own. It'd be an organized way to store things and it'd reduce some of the box/inventory clutter. IIRC No Man's Sky did that with their food processor, they did it via giving you a UI buttom element you could hit while in the workstation crafting screen that would take you to the workstations inventory and that honestly worked pretty well so they'd be a good case study in case yall were leaning in the direction of pursuing that. Also, I'd love to see the buttons to auto-stash things in boxes activated with better icons than the current commented out code. It makes a huge QOL difference to be able to open a box, hit a button, and the relevant items already in the box auto deposit from my inventory. I'll keep modding it in now I know about it, but it'd be nice to have it baseline a part of the game.
  10. If anything archery might be too good thanks to exploding arrows for hordes and being 2nd best at POIs just behind Int thanks to stealth clears. I mean just look at this exploding arrow madness! After several blood moons I started limiting how many explosive arrows I was allowed a night because they are just that good. Fairly cheap to craft, pretty good AOE damage, and minimal block damage delivered accurately at range.
  11. Explosives are definitely OP and have been since the skill rebuild. I expect them to be nerfed eventually. I'd rather they be close to as strong as they are now if you're perception build and weaker for everyone else. Because right now they are just top tier for everyone and cheap to craft. If I was to spitball changes for molotovs, pipe bombs, grenades, and etc within the current system: - Reduce the AOE of baseline explosives. - Add increased AOE to the perception skill. - Nerf their damage slightly. - Increase their crafting costs significantly. - Increase their cost at the trader moderately. - Give perception's explosive's skill a reduction to crafting costs matching the baseline crafting cost increase. TBH though I feel like explosives have a bigger issue. They feel tacked onto perception and perception has a few things that don't fit. They take away from spear/sniper rifles defining the line IMO. Perception, IMO, should be about spears/snipers/looting. Animal tracker is good in perception, lock picking is good in perception. But I feel like demolitions expert and infiltrator do not it in perception. Infiltrator loose board delay should be part of agility stealth skill and the mine pickup should either be a book or go to a new skill that helps mines not suck. IMO we should to create a new attribute that focuses on explosives and other stuff: I'll call it "Cunning" for the interim: - Focuses on explosives and flame weapons. Melee and Ranged focus on fire, demo skills is moved to cunning and includes the changes I mentioned above. - Levels of Cunning increase damage to perk weapons, increases headshot damage, increases decap chances, and increases fire DOT damage/duration. Successive ranks lower the chance of zombies setting allies (including you) on fire with melee attacks. Complete immunity granted at rank 5. Enemies set on fire do 5%/10%/15% less damage at ranks 5/7/10 - T1-T4 melee are similar to clubs with their own unique designs that are on fire. Not a stealth weapon. Similar to stun batons they differentiate themselves with how they play. They require animal fat or oil to crafting depending on tier but repair normally with repair kits. - Regular attacks have a chance of fire, Melee power attacks cause a small burst of fire that does a small amount of AOE damage (no block damage from AOE) and has a chance to set nearby enemies on fire. The AOE size, initial damage amount, and chance of setting nearby enemies on fire with AOE burst goes up with skill rank. Friendlies are not set on fire/damaged unless hit directly. There is a short cooldown between AOE bursts where the weapon's flame will be less intense for a time. - Just like blades have bleed chance but accept the bleed chance mod, melee has fire chance but accepts the fire chance club mod. - T1 ranged weapon is primitive thrown firebombs, T2 is a single shot grenade launcher firing incendiary shells with small AOE, T3 is a multishot grenade launcher firing incendiary shells with small AOE, T4 is a flame thrower. Friendlies can be damaged or set on fire. - Ranged weapon skill increases damage, AOE, range/projectile speed, and reload speed. - General balance of melee and ranged weapons is that they are weaker single target damage but generally good in AOE. - General damage profile is weaker up front damage but superior damage over time, similar to the bleeding with knives. - Focuses on 1 time use non-electircal traps including mines. The existing spike traps and then ideas for other traps include deadfall traps, pitfall traps with spikes at the bottom, swinging log traps, etc. These should all be able to be implemented using current code bases and mainly just needs custom graphical assets and numerical balancing. - Spikes break and need to be rebuilt, deadfall traps and swinging log traps activate once and then need to be reset/repaired, pitfall traps activate a set number of times and the graphics change to show a pit with a few bodies in it and must be repaired. "Resetting" could just be a repair that uses less resources than normal. - Non-electrical traps including mines have a skill that make them much cheaper/faster to craft when fully invested...as well as increases their durability and damage of traps it applies to. - Mine damage to blocks is decreased with skill rank, you get the ability to pick up mines with middling rank, and mine damage resistance scales with skill rank. People in your party (including you) cannot set off the mines you place.
  12. This isn't much of a deal on Nomad difficulty. HOWEVER, the higher up you go in difficulty the less this is true. The downfall of int is DPS and resource cost and each bump up in difficulty makes that weakness stand out more and mroe. On the default difficulty (adventurer) everything is cake. On the next level up (nomad), which used to be the old default, it's still pretty cakey, but once you start going Warrior and above the drawbacks of int start getting pretty noticable as anything tougher than Moe or a Hawaiin Zombie starts taking a long time to kill. At least turrets have AP ammo now so they are not totally screwed vs high gamestage hordes relative to other specs. Penetration is a pretty big deal once the average horde zombie starts being feral or rad because of the sheer amount of hp being thrown your way. So if you're on higher difficulties than warrior then yeah, Int is prolly a super expensive spec, albeit pretty safe. I'll stay mum about the drone until it's in my hot little hands and I can test it directly. That being said I have faith in TFP, if we give them good feedback they can verify they tend to make changes. I remember the original implementations of Junk Turrets and I had some strong criticisms of them early on at a time where most people were in love with them...because they were using them off spec and I was testing them out on spec. I remember posters justifying their launch state by "their not supposed to be a main weapon!" and the like. But after conversations back and forth with the devs and a few videos the devs made several powerful and smart changes to them that brought int in line as a viable spec. They nerfed baseline junk turret, buffed the turrets syndrome skill, let them use more mods, and made the ammo stack much higher. Overall int got much stronger, and it needed it, and junk turret stopped being a god item for every other spec and just became a useful item for every other spec. And the ammo pool buffs for junk turrets and tying those to skills were a huge QOL/balance change. You can see here how much time I was spending just constantly reloading those suckers pre-buffs. It was like playing a reloading simulator instead of a game. I took someone's advice on the forums and just had 4 turrets on horde night so I wasn't getting so much firepower downtime from the turrets. IIRC they buffed baseline turret mag size, allowed them to use drum mag mods, and buffed turrets syndrome to give more mag size AFTER that video, so no longer do they run dry so much. It's seriously one of the best changed made from the release state turrets. I figure Junk drone will likely go through much the same cycle. Implementation, feedback, iteration, and then the happies :P.
  13. Int is my next run to test. I just want to get some play time with my desert eagle first :p. When first released Baton was super weak unless backed by turrets and Dual Turret was pretty underwhelming compared to other specs. But after the skill buffs and the ammo storage buffs and etc it became viable and very powerful within very narrow niches like being top tier at POI clearing. With the new hammer turret, the new turret ammos, and the new books it's looking like it can stand toe to toe with other spec'd now on horde defense while retaining it's POI power. I have no clue where baton stands now with the added books and mod and candy, it's a total wildcard for me atm. I'm scared that after a full int run to day 50+ I'll be recommending a nerf now :P. I'll see how it shakes out. Now if I can just stop playing Death Stranding for a bit... Yo, legit, rabbits are definitely super annoying to hunt. Gotta find one then nerd pole so you can see them through the grass and then wait for them to stand up. But most of the time they blend into the undergrowth and are already fleeing by the time you see them and they flee very unpredictably.
  14. Honestly i'd be in support of that if the rest of the game ran on the same rules OR if the base argument being made was new, but neither of those is true. The entire game runs off of that same sort of abstraction and people have been yelling about not getting enough meat from deer or food from x any time that food is less than effectively infinite early game. So changing the packing in this case won't actually change anything because the problem is not the packaging in this case since the complaints predated that packaging. They're just using the packaging (canned food in this case) as an excuse. Just like they made the argument before or "I only get X meat from deers, this is the dumb!" The problem is just people who don't want food to be a mechanic they have to worry about asking for food buffs, like they have every single time 7DTD has made food a concern for early game. There is a small continent of people who have made these complaints since before A14 any time hunger actually becomes a concern early game. The deer complaints largely went away because they never got any traction but they flare up here and there before quickly petering out again. But now they are attacking canned food using the same exact song and dance because canned food used to be ridiculous good early game and now it's not anymore...but it's still ridiculously good mid and late game.
  15. Yup, production realities are always much more limiting than people think they are. Yall keep on keeping on :). I've enjoyed how the game has grown and evolved personally and the steam chart numbers for a 7 year old PVE game seem to show yall are doing a pretty good job. I can't think of many PVE oriented games that keep growing after 2 years, much less 5/7. I think by day 35 I had only encountered crit conditions about 5 times total so on a personal level I'd agree. OTOH I'm a very experienced and careful player so I prolly get hit alot less than your average player and when I DO get hit it's at max/high health and without abrasions (which I've seen maybe 10 times). So my experience is likely not representative of your average player.
  16. That's because everything in game is just representative, which is exactly my point. It's all gameplay and was never intended to be realistic. If you want realistic butchering, quartering, cooking, and eating then go play the Long Dark. The Long Dark is a realistic survival game, 7DTD is and has always been an arcadey one. Though in the Long dark actually carrying that meat and the calories used to harvest it and etc are also much more realistic. It was a legitimate issue to carry the meat harvested in TLD and the calories/time spent to harvest it was also a significant consideration. The meat also deteriorated and rotted over time...becoming more dangerous to eat. In 7DTD you can store your meat in a box unrfrigerated indefinitely. If you want things to be more realistic, don't cherry pick or you're just making it unrealistic in different ways. When we have realistic carrying weights, butchering calories/time spent, food rotting, and etc I'll gladly advocate for more meat returns. But asking for the benefits of realism without the detriments has nothing to do with realism at all. It's a package deal or you're just asking for the game to be easier as a gameplay consideration.
  17. Nope, reality is reality. Perception is just how people see things and is obtained by filtering what they experience through their own biases and formed via their own limited knowledge. If perception is reality then reality has millions of states of "reality" at a time and thus the entire concept becomes pretty irrelevant. Gameplay feel matters and adjustments often do get made based on feel. But perception/what people express and what makes people play more are often two different things. If perception was really all that important then EA would have been broke a decade ago. They won worst company in America multiple times in a row, they often release the same game over and over again with almost no changes (their sports games), this always has a huge negative reception around it. Yet people keep buying untold millions of copies of the very games they complain about. Here is a good example of the difference between perception and reality. Perception was that there were too many skags in an area and the feedback was that they should remove some skags. The developer doubled the amount of skags and people were happy. The perceived reality of the problem was not the actual problem. And other problems people perceived were not problems at all. THAT is game design. I work in QA, I've been in the game's industry before and I'm going back into it now. I've done alot of tech support before too where perceptions often radically differed from reality there too. I wouldn't say this is my wheelhouse, but it's close and I have significant experience in this area. This is why gaming is so heavily metrics driven. Metrics are much more reliable than player perception/feedback :p. But let's give one last example, World of Warcraft's "rest" system. Did you know it was originally an exp fatigue system where after earning too much exp they lowered the exp you gained? Players HATED it. So what did they do? They changed zero mechanics and they rebranded it as bonus exp and reintroduced it later. Players loved it. Same exact system :P. THAT's how perception works haha. Let me show how silly this is: I chop down a tree and get 50 wood. The average pine tree weighs 5,232 kg (11534.59 lbs). I don't dry or season the wood so in game so I must be using it raw. Let's say I'm wasteful and lose 75% of the wood (1,308 kg or 2,883.64 lbs left). That means each piece of wood must weigh at least 78kg (171 lbs). Even if we half that to account for properly drying the wood that's still 39kg(85.5 lbs) per piece of wood. And 1 piece of wood in the forge lasts about 1 minute. So my forge is plainly burning 85lbs - 171lbs of wood an hour!
  18. Yeah, people don't get that UI icons are representative because what people understand/interpret via the picture and the reality often diverge. UI design is a tricky area because of things like this. If they showed a few scraps of meat instead of full cuts as the icon it'd be less clear for the user what that icon represented. Clarity of communication > realism when it comes to UI elements. And I'm sure some folks will say "but surely anyone would realize blah blah blah". No...they don't lol. For example when they were designing the Fortnite Trap Icon they went through many different icons until they settled on the one that looks like a bear trap (despite not having a bear trap in game) because users just were not getting it. When they designed their pickaxe "sparkle target" for faster mining they tried time and time again to get the user to aim for the sparkle to mine faster and nothing worked so they finally made you unlock the faster sparkle mining to force users to understand what it was and that finally worked. There are literally THOUSANDS of examples like this in gaming we never hear about because it all happens internally. I actually attended a full panel on the developers covering these kind of things at SXSW a year ago. As it turns out designing a game for us is hard :P. Oh and for folks going "but I only get like 2 meals out of a deer! I should get like 20!". You can get 20 meals from a deer when cutting and carrying that meat has real gameplay implications. You wanna know how that feels go play the Long Dark. The Long Dark is a fantastic illustration of how impactful that kind of thing is when realistic and the mechanics serve the story mode well but the survival mode of that game is shallow AF and quickly gets old once you master basic survival because that's all that game is. It IS however much more realistic :P.
  19. For normal people prolly, but for the super human player character we control prolly not :P. I'm pretty sure if I could carry literal tons at a time, operate at full efficiency without ever sleeping, fall dozens of feet to the ground and land without injury, and heal life threatening injuries with minimal medical care that I'd also have much higher caloric requirements. People use their own real life examples of eating constantly as an example of how there is a disconnect, but I'll accept that when people share their own real life examples of all the superhuman activities our character does without a similar disconnect.
  20. Most people on earth don't stay awake 24 hours a day, never get a cold sick, never get exhausted, carry thousands of lbs of stuff, heal broken legs in a day, etc. So how do you explain all of these feats? Our Player character is plainly not a normal human. They are superhuman. And it makes sense considering their capabilities that their metabolism would be much higher than normal. IMO the main problem is a perceptual one, canned food went from being god tier food to being tier 1 in just a few updates and people are experiencing friction as they adjust. It's a rather alrge gameplay adjustment that has happened fairly quickly. Treat canned food like you do grilled meat. You're intended to survive off of recipes. Either skill into master chef or just survive long enough to find recipes in the wild or on the trader. Canned food is tier 1 food when eaten on it's own, but when used in it's own recipes it becomes top tier. There are multiple recipes that offer over 100 hunger satiation. Your food problems should very quickly go away, especially now that we cannot throw up anymore.
  21. Stone spears hit really hard when thrown relative to their tech level. I'm pretty certain that a stealth headshot stone spear does a great deal more damage than a stealth headshot primitive bow arrow. Spear is a bit riskier though since you have a limited amount of spears to throw and it's shorter ranged. But on the flip side spears can be recovered consistently with minimal durability damage and so they don't spend resources. If you had infinite skill points and full mods on everything I'm pretty sure that steel spears are the best stealth weapon in the game if you are accurate and being accurate with them gets easier as you skill up spear skill since they travel faster and further. :). Club go thonka thonka, stun baton go brrrrrrrr, junk turret go skrrrahh, pap, pap, ka-ka-ka.
  22. Your tests are actually perfectly in line with what I said. Club is one of the best melee weapons in the game and your limit for comfortably taking on enemies ended at the 2 feral/rad cap like I mentioned :P. You CAN take on more with melee after that, but you need to start using spikes and block chokepoints like a doorway where you fill the bottom block with cobblestone and etc to control the battlefield. All of this was mentioned at the bottom of my last reply :). Specific weapon commentary: Club: Performed as expected. Club is a GD beast. The chest hit knockdown comment was in relation to the sledge power attack, not the club. Either you misinterpreted or I was not clear, one of the two. The sledge power attack has a 100% knockdown on primary target and 60% in AOE. Club's knockdown power is different, if you power attack a zed you've knocked down that is in the getting up animation it'll slam it back down to the ground. So once you've grounded something with the club you can keep it grounded. Sledge: The AOE knockdown is primarily useful vs non-feral/non-rad trash that spawns with the ferals/rad. You use the guaranteed knockdowns I mentioned earlier to help keep 2 feral/rad on their butts when not staggered and the AOE knockdown keeps the trash from swarming you. You'll want sexy rexy + ergo grip + drink for heavy sledgehammer combat. Eat food for the stamina buff now too. Ideally you'll want to practice on different zombies so you know their stagger thresholds with normal attacks. Your goal isn't to kill when in challenging situations, it's to CC them until they are dead. (which is still headshot focused!) The kills will just happen naturally during that process. So you can stagger what you need with a normal attack don't waste the stamina for a power attack if you don't need atm. As long as you're alive, they will all die, it's not a DPS battle it's a CC battle. Power attacking when you don't specifically need to is a good way to die as a sledge user. Every swing counts and it's a much more advanced weapon to use in challenging situations than all other melee even though it's faceroll against easy stuff it can 1 shot. And as the other poster mentioned the instant headsplosion is a big deal. One that does not apply to Axe. Junk Sledges: You used 3 weapons :P. OFC it did better haha. Stun Baton backed by 2 Junk turrets could prolly take on everything the sledges took on too. Int, with the combined power of all it's arsenal, deals significant stagger damage and keeps things on their butts more often than not. I've yet to test out the new AP junk turret ammo and shotgun junk turret ammo :P. That being said it is indeed amusing :). This kind of stuff is why Int is hands down the best POI clearing skillset in the game. The damage is middling compared to proper firearms but the CC is fantastic and you can minimize your risk. Axe: I agree with you that it can be used to save what you need to carry and work against trash enemies pretty well with a reliance on ranged if things get challenging. But that's only an option for strength and miner69er and motherload are not actually needed anymore. POIs now provide a solid source of wood, stone, cobblestones, cement, all metals, and treasure hunts provide a solid source of clay. The only thing you might ever need to mine is oil shale and you'll only need to do that one overnight mining session for a ridiculous amount of gas produced. In update A16 and before being able to focus miner69er and motherload would be ace, but in the current state of the game it's a fairly weak advantage that comes with the tradeoff of being weaker in melee. I don't believe normal damage knockdowns are RNG. IIRC, and in my experience, zeds have some sort of stagger hp bar you deplete that recovers when you're not hitting it or after being knocked down. The damage you do to that bar is determined by weapon and another reliable factor like damage. If you hit the same zombie with the same attack in the same place the same number of times you will get incredibly reliable staggers and knockdowns. Axe is a heavy 2h weapon and so it does a good amount of what I'll just call "stagger damage", especially on power attacks. Unless I miss my guess I'd wager that the "pain resistance" that they modified for dogs/dire wolves/mountain lions in the patch notes is referring to this system and that would represent how resistant the entities are to being staggered or knocked down. I'm pretty sure zombies will still stagger and get knocked down with AI turned off so since you like testing just turn their AI off and counter your hits with normal attacks and power attacks. Variance should be from using a different type of attack, the part of body you hit with your attacks (head vs torso vs limbs), and your aim (direct hit vs glancing blow). When I did dedicated weapon testing before I don't remember it varying any. If I didn't miss they staggered and got knocked down as expected. Club, axe, knuckles play pretty standard with their own minor twists. Sledge, Machete/Knife, and Spear all play quite differently from everything else. Int is Cthulhu :P. It does NOT take time to stack bleed. A single power attack with blades applies 5 stacks of bleed (when skilled with deep cuts), super fast power attacks with knives and still pretty fast with machete. Minimal stamina use. It takes time for the bleed to do it's full damage though. Great for hit and run tactics, clears non feral/rad groups faster than anything else for sure since it ends up one shotting most zeds if you let them bleed out and it swings faster than other weapons with no stamina issues so you can clear trash zeds fast too. Agility benefits greatly from investing in it's stealth perks though. With full cloth armor, full sneak skill, and a few mufflers I'm power attack stabbing zombies in the head for 5.5x normal damage :). Just remember to keep your helmet light off and once your stealth gets high enough you can start stealth killing entire POIs with bow and then with better stealth even knife/machete. If you notice zombies alerting when you crouch into a room with full cloth, full sneak, and a few mufflers then turn off your head light :P. Spear and Sledge both take alot of practice to do well since both accuracy and approach are critical. Knife/Machete is easy enough once you change how you think about combat since it's pretty "safe" either by virtue of stealth or by virtue of kiting. It should be mentioned bleed applies a 10% slow to zombies, which helps with said kiting :P. Always friend, always :). I can't wait to test out the new turret ammos in my next run!
  23. Those are glancing blows, weapons have a slight arc depending on the swing. Knockdown/stagger thresholds are based on the weapon and the damage being delivered IIRC. Resistance to knockdown is determined by the zombie. Headshots increase the effect. This is again a case of "great with careful controlled pulls" where you can take your time and aim the headshot and be accurate. But the times where weapons matter most is when you have to face tough situations. Being able to chest hit a zed and knock him down guaranteed no matter what the zed is a rather large advantage and in group situations being able to knock down the entire group near them often is HUGE. Again on the weakest trash enemies 1-2 at a time anything will do. Even the Stun Baton on it's own can school them and it's weak AF without it's turret backup. But for harder targets like high hp ferals and any non-trash rad there will be major differences. Everything handles easy content well. Pummel Pete is no joke. Knocking down enemies is easy with club and then you do hella bonus damage while they are knocked down and it knocks them down allover again. Club laughes at even irradiated ferals because they'll never get off the ground while you keep doing 200% bonus damage swings to them. AND clubs do 100% bonus damage every 3rd hit. That means after 2 normal swings a club would do a 128 base damage power attack. Very useful for just obliterating another zombie from the one you're working on since that's almost sledge level power attack damage. Fast swings, reasonable stamina usage. Club is definitely and all arounder weapon but it's still one of the best weapons in the game without question if used properly. AND DON'T FORGET BOOKS! Batter up gives 10% more club damage, leg power attacks for slow, increased knockdown chance on power attacks, and killing blows with power attacks refill your stamina meter when you collect all the books :). Maybe one day Sledge will get it's own book too. You're sleeping on Spears quite alot here. Spears are fantastic weapons. The throw has huge stagger/knockdown where even body throws knock an enemy down with 2 normally. If you're more accurate and can hit head throws it's even better. Normal attacks are defintiley weak on spears having only range. So basic combat scenario is either a double throw to knockdown and then running up to finish, throw one and then jab with the other, or throw one and then spike the head with a second throw on the knockdown. I'm not good enough for head shots consistently but they still do real work even with thrown body shots. And the biggest thing is, stealth spear throwing. You can 1 shot so many zombies from stealth with spears. They are incredibly powerful. The only real thing they need now is for both spears to go back to your toolbelt if you throw them. They also have their own spear hunter book series that further increases throw speed and range, increases their damage, makes rapid stabs do 10% more per stab up to +30%, and make power attacks do 50% more to downed targets. Spears are prolly one of the strongest melee weapons if you include the stealth aspects. But in normal combat they are good but not best. Stun baton is an outlier here since you can wield 2 turrets with it so it's not as powerful because of that. Stun Baton seems to be intended to be used with the turrets or not at all. Machete is deceptively powerful when used well. In a straight up fight it's weaker than the others but it's the single best melee weapon (rivaled only by the hunting knife) at killing daytime wandering hordes. Dot em all up with bleeds and let em die :P. Hit a zombie with one power attack headshot/body shot and move to the next. The bleed damage from a single power attack is like 80+ over 20 seconds IIRC PLUS the damage from the strike itself. For POI usage though you'll prolly be sneak attacking with a power attack in an agility build. Assuming your not using bows of course. For daytime groups you isolate the 1-2 feral/rads and eliminate and then mop up the rest. The game gives you plenty of tools for this. Doors, blocks, spikes, etc. Anything more than 2 feral/rad is ranged weapon preferred territory but throwing down a cobblestone block in the bottom of a doorway and then pummeling their faces works too :P. Sometimes I'll set up my own chokepoints if one doesn't exist. I've even set the occasional mine behind a closed door for funsies :P. Most folks have a very narrow view of the possibilities of combat in the game, but there are alot of options. I've done a few "benny hill music around the counter in the kitchen smacking them in the head" dances before haha :). For all the non-ferals/rads though taking out a group with melee is cake :). Painting an encounter out as 4 rad wights and 5 feral soldiers is a bit disingenuous though. You won't see that kind of crazy outside of treasure rooms normally.
  24. You've got the strength build to help with the stamina that most other builds will not have. Also by your own admission you lose the AOE knockdown, but your also losing out on the guaranteed single target knockdown. You also lose the 200% damage to stunned enemies. This might not matter much on your rank and file zombies, but basically any weapon can handle controlled pulls of 1 zombie at a time. Even a stone axe can handle 1 zombie at a time. That's more of a question of timing and caution to avoid swings than anything else. Where melee weapon viability kicks in is when you get groups of zombies or face individual tougher zombies like ferals and rads with significant health. Clubs are good at pummeling tough enemies and keeping them a non danger on the ground and get bonus damage on downed enemies. Sledges are good at area knockdown and doing high alpha strike damage and get bonus damage on stunned enemies. Blades are good at hitting multiple zombies quickly and then bailing to let them bleed out and are also very stamina efficient...they also have very high attack speed and can dispatch single zombies fast with chained power attacks. Stun Batons are weak AF but are made to work in tandem with junk turrets. Knuckles are good at repeatedly stunning an enemy. All of them have a significant chance to explode zombie heads automatically, which can defeat stronger zombies much faster than otherwise possible with a melee weapon. I'd say axes are prolly better than some weapons unperked, but that's where it ends. EDIT: Additional notes: As I PS I also find people overuse the sledgehammer power attack. The power attack from that axe that stops your stamina regen does less than a normal attack from your sledge. There is only a 10 stamina cost difference baseline between axe and sledgehammer, but on a power attack an axe actually uses 60 stamina baseline instead of the listed 30. So you actually are using more stamina and doing simialar damage compared to a normal sledge attack + the added cost of lack of stamina regen. For reference Sledge power attack uses 80 stamina baseline, normal uses 40 and axe uses 60/30. Sexy Rexy ofc reduces that values by as much as 25% normal attack and 50% power attack + ergonomic grip (if you even need it). I'm sorry but there is a monumentally clear difference here. If you're gassing out quicker on the sledgehammer you're using it wrong because you can do the same damage for less stamina with the sledge and you're losing your stamina regen with the axe on top of that.
  25. Yup, this is the answer. It's better than the stone axe and it's better than most T1 weapons without skills but T2 weapons with skills quickly leave it behind and T3 is incredibly better than fireaxe. Is it useless? No. Is it viable when compared to dedicated melee weapons? Definitely not. I've killed plenty of things with the stone axe this update, it does the job too, I'm still going to switch to a proper weapon though for zed killing. Before the skill/perk rework though axe was on much more even ground with the dedicated melee weapons. The rework made melee much stronger and added a variety of play styles.
  • Create New...