Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[Ryiah]

6 hours ago, Naz said:

You can estimate the gains in performance you would get from features like dlss by simply running under your monitors native resolution. You obviously won't get the image quality benifits but it can show you how much performance you could get if it was hypothetically implemented in 7dtd (which doesn't look likely) 

 

If 1080p is your native res run the game at 720p and see if you get anything significant from that. However 7dtd is heavy cpu bound so chances are these upscaling technologies will do little to nothing for you in 7dtd even if it was implimented. 

 

It depends heavily on your hardware and the resolution you're running but I'd wager for the vast majority it wouldn't make any appreciable difference unfortunately. 

 

Both DLSS and FSR were primarily designed to run at high resolutions not low ones. Yes, most people are not on resolutions above 1080p, but they're likewise not on graphics cards above 1060/1650 performance either.

[mstdv inc]

23 minutes ago, Ryiah said:

 

Here's an implementation of FSR 1.0 for Unity's built-in render pipeline.

 

https://github.com/tatoforever/AMD_FSR

You can use FSR 1.0 even without introducing it into the game.The necessary program is available on Steam.I think it's not about the impossibility of its implementation, but as a final picture after using FSR.I tried to use it.For Full HD and below, it's terrible, honestly.You won't be playing with this picture quality.

[Ryiah]

2 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

You can use FSR 1.0 even without introducing it into the game.The necessary program is available on Steam.I think it's not about the impossibility of its implementation, but as a final picture after using FSR.I tried to use it.For Full HD and below, it's terrible, honestly.You won't be playing with this picture quality.

 

There's a major disadvantage to running it through an external application or driver setting: it upscales everything including the UI.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Ryiah
typo (see edit history)

[Naz]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

But even though it is CPU bound you can see fps go down above a specific resolution. In a quick test my PC showed 100 FPS no matter what resolution up to 3k I set in windowed mode. But above 3k I could see FPS go down until it was half at 4k. So presumably for me DLSS would help if I had a 3k monitor.

 

 

Yes really sucks for that 1 guy with an 8k monitor XD

[meganoth]

6 hours ago, Naz said:

Yes really sucks for that 1 guy with an 8k monitor XD

 

I would never pay 8k for a monitor. 😉

[Jost Amman]

10 hours ago, Naz said:

Yes really sucks for that 1 guy with an 8k monitor XD

I guess that @maxousara is that one guy, lol 

[Kalex]

On 10/8/2022 at 5:08 PM, Melange said:

True, we don't know. But it isn't going to be the environment we've all become acustomed to. Come back @Kalex when its released, and tell us how much you like the change. We'll chat again.

And I've been thru multiple radical reworks of game mechanics so far they have been either livable or for the better.

[Melange]

1 hour ago, Kalex said:

And I've been thru multiple radical reworks of game mechanics so far they have been either livable or for the better.

Me too. Actually walked away from some 'alpha upgrades' because the were not imo player friendly. And I don't suspect A21 is gonna be any more friendly. Livable? Sure, but even using that term indicates TFP messed up on our interpretation of player enjoyment, agreed? And as 'for the better', we'll have to see. Better for whom? But, its all moot. They gonna do what they gonna do, that's been proven. Now, if they'll just release the damned thing....

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Melange said:

Me too. Actually walked away from some 'alpha upgrades' because the were not imo player friendly. And I don't suspect A21 is gonna be any more friendly. Livable? Sure, but even using that term indicates TFP messed up on our interpretation of player enjoyment, agreed? And as 'for the better', we'll have to see. Better for whom? But, its all moot. They gonna do what they gonna do, that's been proven. Now, if they'll just release the damned thing....

 

Player enjoyment is a complex thing. To make an easy example: Players like weapons with huge damage. A naive improvement to a game would therefore be to increase the damage of all weapons. But the result would be that most players don't feel challenged and do NOT enjoy the game. The game has to be judged as a whole, not each feature in isolation, and that is what many players fail to do when they go from alpha to alpha.

 

Secondly players have different tastes. TFP has changed the feel of the game while they were adding and experimenting and with that they also changed the target group of players that would welcome all the changes they made. Just as an example, before they could add RPG advancement features they had to present a playable game, so the game was a lot more sandboxy and had no RPG advancement. That appealed to different players than the current game and the more RPG they added the less some old players liked the changes. But that doesn't mean that they failed with RPG advancement, it meant that their final target group of players is not exactly the same as the ones drawn to the game initially.  

 

You correctly say that "our interpretation of player enjoyment" was messed up if you just look at yourself and players having the same taste as you. But you overstate the case if you generally say alpha upgrades were not player friendly unless you specify exactly which group of players you talk about in regards to which change.

 

[Melange]

12 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

I would never pay 8k for a monitor. 😉

Was a time I'd never pay 3k for a computer. But I did. Many times over for decades.  8k for a nice big screen? well, I'd consider it. If I didn't have to upgrade every three years. Priorities.  QoL.  Oh, and a good comfortable relaxing gaming chair. Still not found one to suit my desires. But sitting on orange crates with an awesome view of the game world...perhaps priceless 🙂

[BFT2020]

On 10/8/2022 at 5:08 PM, Melange said:

True, we don't know. But it isn't going to be the environment we've all become acustomed to. Come back @Kalex when its released, and tell us how much you like the change. We'll chat again.

I will for sure.  These changes to crafting are something I am looking forward to in A21.

[Melange]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Player enjoyment is a complex thing. To make an easy example: Players like weapons with huge damage. A naive improvement to a game would therefore be to increase the damage of all weapons. But the result would be that most players don't feel challenged and do NOT enjoy the game. The game has to be judged as a whole, not each feature in isolation, and that is what many players fail to do when they go from alpha to alpha.

 

Secondly players have different tastes. TFP has changed the feel of the game while they were adding and experimenting and with that they also changed the target group of players that would welcome all the changes they made. Just as an example, before they could add RPG advancement features they had to present a playable game, so the game was a lot more sandboxy and had no RPG advancement. That appealed to different players than the current game and the more RPG they added the less some old players liked the changes. But that doesn't mean that they failed with RPG advancement, it meant that their final target group of players is not exactly the same as the ones drawn to the game initially.  

 

You correctly say that "our interpretation of player enjoyment" was messed up if you just look at yourself and players having the same taste as you. But you overstate the case if you generally say alpha upgrades were not player friendly unless you specify exactly which group of players you talk about in regards to which change.

 

You said it well. And I don't disagree. But, reluctant at first to use mods, I embrace them now. So that I can create the play environment that suits me. Now, its human nature to push back against change. Many a company spends big money on how to change corporate culture. Gaming culture is a free for all. We don't like it? We will let the world know our feelings.

 

I can complain all I want. But with some savvy and a bit of experimentation, I can create the game environment I want. So complaining isn't useful, but modding is effective.

 

I have found a work around so that the base game still shines. Thankful that modding is still an option.

 

 

 

[Melange]

18 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

I will for sure.  These changes to crafting are something I am looking forward to in A21.

Nice. But I'm not looking forward to the changes as much as I need to change how I can craft. We'll be here. May be a helluva lot better than we anticipate.  It's the waiting that's palpable....come on TFP. Open up the sluice and let us have something real to she-dog about!

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Melange said:

Was a time I'd never pay 3k for a computer. But I did. Many times over for decades.  8k for a nice big screen? well, I'd consider it. If I didn't have to upgrade every three years. Priorities.  QoL.  Oh, and a good comfortable relaxing gaming chair. Still not found one to suit my desires. But sitting on orange crates with an awesome view of the game world...perhaps priceless 🙂

 

I bought a TV chair and crafted a wooden mouse platter/platform(?) for it that I can pull over the right arm rest. Unlike a gaming chair this chair does not look out of place in my living room.

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

I bought a TV chair and crafted a wooden mouse platter/platform(?) for it that I can pull over the right arm rest. Unlike a gaming chair this chair does not look out of place in my living room.

 

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

 

I hate myself for saying it but....that looks pretty comfy

[Morloc]

How often do you have to empty the bucket? 🤔

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc

[Laz Man]

17 hours ago, Morloc said:

How often do you have to empty the bucket? 🤔

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc

Never, if you install the chair in your bathroom lol...

[beerfly]

The Throne ! Looks good. If it is in brown you`d never need to clean it, also. 

 

 

 

.. I know, I am in the corner already. 

[Kalex]

4 hours ago, beerfly said:

The Throne ! Looks good. If it is in brown you`d never need to clean it, also. 

 

 

 

.. I know, I am in the corner already. 

Ew, just ewww.

[Old Crow]

On 9/27/2022 at 10:14 AM, unholyjoe said:

that does explain it all.

 

so if the devs change things to up the ante to a survival game... you basically want an offset to make it counter the change... hmmm sounds like playing american football in reverse only mode. you will never win nor advance.

No, I want things to make sense. I don't think that's asking a lot. And your analogy is nonsensical - If it were like football in reverse, neither side advances.

[unholyjoe]

11 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

No, I want things to make sense. I don't think that's asking a lot. And your analogy is nonsensical - If it were like football in reverse, neither side advances.

that was my point and it was purposely nonsensical as you had to point out. glad you at least caught on to it and no one else did.

[Roland]

22 hours ago, Old Crow said:

No, I want things to make sense. I don't think that's asking a lot. And your analogy is nonsensical - If it were like football in reverse, neither side advances.

 

No-nonsense answer is that there does seem to be more glue and duct tape in loot. With bottles gone you actually get more useful items. When I was watching the streams during the Twitchcon I noticed how often they were finding empty bottles in loot and it was just laughable to me how much those things clogged up the loot tables pre-A21. You aren't going to have stacks of glue or duct tape by any means just from looting around but there does seem to me to be a bit more of those and more seeds and raw vegetables as well.

[RipClaw]

9 hours ago, Roland said:

When I was watching the streams during the Twitchcon I noticed how often they were finding empty bottles in loot and it was just laughable to me how much those things clogged up the loot tables pre-A21.

And I saw a video yesterday of someone running all over the place to find one glue instead of just crafting it. That's the problem when people only loot. They forget that crafting is part of the game.

 

And by the way, empty jars have never clogged up my inventory. What clogs my inventory are items that don't stack, but empty jars stack up to 125 of them, so they usually only occupy one slot.

 

[ParadiseLostUK]

6 hours ago, RipClaw said:

And I saw a video yesterday of someone running all over the place to find one glue instead of just crafting it. That's the problem when people only loot. They forget that crafting is part of the game.

 

And by the way, empty jars have never clogged up my inventory. What clogs my inventory are items that don't stack, but empty jars stack up to 125 of them, so they usually only occupy one slot.

 

Unless I'm mistaken I think Roland was referring to empty jars clogging up the loot table, not your inventory... rather than finding empty jars in every cupboard you may find something more useful.