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Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow


meilodasreh

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23 minutes ago, Annihilatorza said:

Having watched the forums for months now I am really worried that A21 is going to be a giant miss step in the wrong direction with the following two things.

 

Learn by Looting and the removal of water jars.

 

First one I will tackle is water.

 

This is a bit of an odd change since water is not the hard to clean in the real world. Removal of the Jars makes no sense, it's like removing the bullet casing since we only shoot the tip of bullet. 

 

To make water a bit more of a challenge we could do the following.

Change Murky water to dirty water.

If you drink from a flowing stream/river you have a 30% chance of dysentery.

Drink from a standing pond of water 70% chance of dysentery.

Drink from an ocean you lose water or to keep it simple you drink from dirty water 50% chance of dysentery.

 

To clean water you need to collect in your Jar/Bucket/Tin - Dew Collector will only give 2-3 jars a day of clean water

Once Collected you could filter it using a charcoal filter - so to make it Charcoal/sand/rocks/Cloth and Plastic for the Bottle.

Water takes 1 hour to filter in game time +-

2 jars of dirty water will give 1 of clean water

Or just boil it and give you boiled water

2 jars of dirty water will give 1 of boiled water

If you Filter it and boil it gives you Purified water, which gives you all the current bonuses.

So, if you filter it and boil it, it's a 4 to 1 ratio

 

So you need to work for your water,

No magical Jars

Water is more effort to get and clean

The Water filter has to be replaced/repaired as it will decay with use

With effort you get a good reward, but with little effort you can survive but effort is still spent

You have to loot to get the materials

 

That just my take on water, sorry been long winded.

 

Learn by Looting 

 

No easy way to say this it screws over builders

 

I have played with and play with plenty of people who love to mine/build and garden and have 0 interest in killing zombies.

I hear you say that other players can bring back magazines for them but then you are messing them around as well since we have limited inventory space.

 

Not everyone wants to fight zombies or spend all our time looting, it feels like we are being forced into looting and at the expense of building and mining, by the sounds of it, why would I spend my time building a unique building now as I get 0 xp for doing so, same with mining for the materials I need. Easier just to take over a POI and went it goes down to a horde move to the next one.

 

I feel a connection with building the base, I want to defend it and the XP I get is a small reward for doing so, now I have to spend all my time looting books for the skills I need instead of just mining and building and hoping the RNG Gods don't screw me over.

 

With our group we always had ppl that just chose to mine and build, then others love to kill zombies and loot so that's what they did and other played a mix of the two.

Now everyone has to go killing and looting if they want to do anything, they have already said they won't be moving to A21 due the skill changes.

 

This change limits our play styles a lot and IMO it's not a good change.

 

The current system is excellent and is easy to understand, really does not need be ripped apart like this.

 

I just started a new world with a friend who never played the game before, and he picked it up within 10 mins. 

 

Just my two cents.

 

While I don't agree with this, I have heard the concern about inventory space from multiple sources. The fact that in any co-op game you will find lots of magazines that are destined for your co-op players will put a larger strain on inventories.

 

I only have heard feedback from Rolands playtesting but it seems he is playing SP where this is no problem at all. I assume there are testers playing co-op somewhere, any feedback from them about it?

 

 

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On 10/18/2022 at 4:46 AM, bdubyah said:

 

That's just not possible in the game currently. If you were in a city and every zombie sleeper within gunshot range spawned in, that's the max cap hit immediately. No zombies anywhere else. Not to mention the lag that would be caused by all them spawning at once. Which was probably the main reasons why they went the sleeper route. If they could easily have hundreds of zombies at once then you could have them spawning in buildings as part of the biome spawns and not need sleeper volumes at all. But that isn't feasible.

Yeah but again. There are potential work arounds. Let's say the gunshot wakes up 90 zombies. It could be coded to spawn them in waves. So say. A few spawn immediately then it keeps track of a spawn que and spawns the others until all woken zombies are evaded or dealt with etc. Not saying it would be a perfect system. Only that it would feel alot more organic than sleepers currently do. 

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47 minutes ago, Quillbeatssword said:

Yeah but again. There are potential work arounds. Let's say the gunshot wakes up 90 zombies. It could be coded to spawn them in waves. So say. A few spawn immediately then it keeps track of a spawn que and spawns the others until all woken zombies are evaded or dealt with etc. Not saying it would be a perfect system. Only that it would feel alot more organic than sleepers currently do. 

 

I assume you know the "feral sense" option? It sometimes generates the onslaught of zombies you are looking for

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2 hours ago, meganoth said:

The fact that in any co-op game you will find lots of magazines that are destined for your co-op players will put a larger strain on inventories.

I assume that then drop chests in A21 will be used a lot more. The looters deposit the magazines there and the other players pick them up.

 

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36 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

I assume that then drop chests in A21 will be used a lot more. The looters deposit the magazines there and the other players pick them up.

 

You mean builders will have to step away from building to go loot a drop chest?  Outrageous!!!!

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

While I don't agree with this, I have heard the concern about inventory space from multiple sources. The fact that in any co-op game you will find lots of magazines that are destined for your co-op players will put a larger strain on inventories.

 

I only have heard feedback from Rolands playtesting but it seems he is playing SP where this is no problem at all. I assume there are testers playing co-op somewhere, any feedback from them about it?

 

 


The impact on inventory is huge. As a single player I read everything immediately. You can easily acquire a dozen different magazine titles while clearing a couple of POIs and if you are saving them all to be read by someone else then, yeah, inventories will fill up fast. 
 

From what I can tell, those who enjoy inventory management will be fine with the changes and those who hate inventory management already modded the size of their backpacks ages ago and will also be fine. 

 

If the devs see the need to increase backpack size, so be it, but as of now there has been no changes to inventory size
 

 

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Alot of people enjoy finding and giving stuff to their friends in game.  Magazines will just add to that.  It's like receiving more gifts on Christmas.  My prediction is the hunt for magazines will be felt as an enjoyable goal for people to engage in.

 

Unlike the RNG of books / schematics of past alphas, players have more ways to up their chances of finding the types of magazines they need.

 

BUILDER:  "Hey Roland, we really need to build workstations ASAP.  Can you focus on finding more workstation mags on your next scavenge run?"

 

LOOTER: "Matt, We are in dire need of water and food but I can see what I can do.  I saw a neighborhood of houses to the east yesterday.  Lots of those may have workstations I can check.

 

Also, There is the new trader route we opened up recently.  I could head over there and see if they have any workstation mags.

 

BTW, stop telling me about your survival horror stories. Kthxbye!"

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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21 minutes ago, Roland said:

You mean builders will have to step away from building to go loot a drop chest?  Outrageous!!!!

Does that mean you volunteer to collect the magazines in the dropchests and bring them to the builders ?

Really noble of you.

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7 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Alot of people enjoy finding and giving stuff to their friends in game.  Magazines will just add to that.  It's like receiving more gifts on Christmas.  My prediction is the hunt for magazines will be felt as an enjoyable goal for people to engage in.

 

Unlike the RNG of books / schematics of past alphas, players have more ways to up their chances of finding the types of magazines they need.

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

BUILDER:  "Hey Roland, we really need to build workstations ASAP.  Can you focus on finding more workstation mags on your next scavenge run?"

 

LOOTER: "Matt, We are in dire need of water and food but I can see what I can do.  I saw a neighborhood of houses to the east yesterday.  Lots of those may have workstations I can check.

 

Also, There is the new trader route we opened up recently.  I could head over there and see if they have any workstation mags.

 

BTW, stop telling me about your survival horror stories. Kthxbye!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see it more like this...

 

Matt:  "Hey Roland, we really need to build workstations ASAP.  Can you focus on finding more workstation mags on your next scavenge run?"

 

Roland: "Matt, We are in dire need of water and food but I can see what I can do.  I saw a neighborhood of houses to the east yesterday.  Lots of those may have workstations I can check.

 

Matt:  "While you are out could you check all the newsstands and see if there any skeletons around I could harvest?"

 

Roland: "Matt, I keep telling you there aren't any newsstands like you want or skeletons"

 

Matt:  "Awwww, that is a shame. Well in that case while you are out could you check all the newsstands and see if there are any skeletons around I can harvest?"

 

Roland: "Sure Matt, sure. Will keep and eye out."

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5 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Does that mean you volunteer to collect the magazines in the dropchests and bring them to the builders ?

Really noble of you.


Bah! My charity barely extends to me stepping away from looting to fill up the drip chest at all and only so as to free up inventory space. 
 

4 minutes ago, Gamida said:

 

 

 

 

I see it more like this...

 

Matt:  "Hey Roland, we really need to build workstations ASAP.  Can you focus on finding more workstation mags on your next scavenge run?"

 

Roland: "Matt, We are in dire need of water and food but I can see what I can do.  I saw a neighborhood of houses to the east yesterday.  Lots of those may have workstations I can check.

 

Matt:  "While you are out could you check all the newsstands and see if there any skeletons around I could harvest?"

 

Roland: "Matt, I keep telling you there aren't any newsstands like you want or skeletons"

 

Matt:  "Awwww, that is a shame. Well in that case while you are out could you check all the newsstands and see if there are any skeletons around I can harvest?"

 

Roland: "Sure Matt, sure. Will keep and eye out."


Woah, at what point did Roland suddenly start comprehending whatever the hell Matt was talking about…? 😜

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16 minutes ago, Roland said:


Bah! My charity barely extends to me stepping away from looting to fill up the drip chest at all and only so as to free up inventory space. 
 


Woah, at what point did Roland suddenly start comprehending whatever the hell Matt was talking about…? 😜

 

 

This was an alternate universe I was talking about. Pfft, I don't expect you to understand Matt in the real world.

 

Now the real game...who got dissed in the statement above.

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37 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Alot of people enjoy finding and giving stuff to their friends in game.  Magazines will just add to that.  It's like receiving more gifts on Christmas.  My prediction is the hunt for magazines will be felt as an enjoyable goal for people to engage in.

 

Unlike the RNG of books / schematics of past alphas, players have more ways to up their chances of finding the types of magazines they need.

 

BUILDER:  "Hey Roland, we really need to build workstations ASAP.  Can you focus on finding more workstation mags on your next scavenge run?"

 

LOOTER: "Matt, We are in dire need of water and food but I can see what I can do.  I saw a neighborhood of houses to the east yesterday.  Lots of those may have workstations I can check.

 

Also, There is the new trader route we opened up recently.  I could head over there and see if they have any workstation mags.

 

BTW, stop telling me about your survival horror stories. Kthxbye!"

 

 

 

 

 

 Haha...you're forgetting about all the min maxers out there. It would be more like:

 

Builder: Hey Roland we need more Forge Ahead books

 

Looter: Okay, Matt. I saw some buildings that probably have some workstations and I also saw a Working Stiffs. I'll check them out.

 

Builder: Wait! Did you perk into Engineering at all?

 

Looter: nooooooo....

 

Builder: Stop!!!! No!!!! Stay away from those places, damn you!!! LAZ!!! Go loot those containers because Roland isn't worthy!!!!!

 

4 minutes ago, Gamida said:

 

 

This was an alternate universe I was talking about. Pfft, I don't expect you to understand Matt in the real world.

 

Now the real game...who got dissed in the statement above.

 

Obviously you dissed yourself. Alternate universes aren't actually real.

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Just now, Roland said:

 Haha...you're forgetting about all the min maxers out there. It would be more like:

 

Builder: Hey Roland we need more Forge Ahead books

 

Looter: Okay, Matt. I saw some buildings that probably have some workstations and I also saw a Working Stiffs. I'll check them out.

 

Builder: Wait! Did you perk into Engineering at all?

 

Looter: nooooooo....

 

Builder: Stop!!!! No!!!! Stay away from those places, damn you!!! LAZ!!! Go loot those containers because Roland isn't worthy!!!!!

and during this arguing amongst friends :)
the zombies are up on the hill looking down to their new meal.

zom1: ssshh wait for it,, wait for it

zom2: wait hell, lets grab lunch now before it gets away.

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2 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

and during this arguing amongst friends :)
the zombies are up on the hill looking down to their new meal.

zom1: ssshh wait for it,, wait for it

zom2: wait hell, lets grab lunch now before it gets away.

Zom1: smh....1st world apocalypse problems....🤣

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Nah, I was already cleaning out all those containers with my unwashed unperked basic hands while talking on discord. Laz was too late, the zombies went hungry, and Matt had to content himself with the rocks and concrete I found instead of Forge Ahead magazines.

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44 minutes ago, Roland said:

You mean builders will have to step away from building to go loot a drop chest?  Outrageous!!!!


The impact on inventory is huge. As a single player I read everything immediately. You can easily acquire a dozen different magazine titles while clearing a couple of POIs and if you are saving them all to be read by someone else then, yeah, inventories will fill up fast. 
 

From what I can tell, those who enjoy inventory management will be fine with the changes and those who hate inventory management already modded the size of their backpacks ages ago and will also be fine. 

 

If the devs see the need to increase backpack size, so be it, but as of now there has been no changes to inventory size
 

 

That is a valid option but if they are looting across the map, the builder will have to go loot with them anyway. 

 

I just don't understand why there is this need to punish people who just want to build or mine do something else than kill zombies and loot.

For me one of the great appeals of 7D2D was the choice of what I wanted to do, Do I build today or do I mine or do I kill zombies, now my choice is Kill zombies and loot magazines everything else is secondary.

 

Rather let the players play how they want to and not force them into a single play style IMO.

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7 minutes ago, Roland said:

Builder: Wait! Did you perk into Engineering at all?

 

Looter: Did you build that roof with a 45 or 60 degree angle?

 

Builder: No, I think a 22.5 degree angle is better.  Why?

 

Looter: Exactly, you stick to building and I'll stick to looting. Thank you very much....

 

 

1 minute ago, Annihilatorza said:

That is a valid option but if they are looting across the map, the builder will have to go loot with them anyway. 

 

I just don't understand why there is this need to punish people who just want to build or mine do something else than kill zombies and loot.

For me one of the great appeals of 7D2D was the choice of what I wanted to do, Do I build today or do I mine or do I kill zombies, now my choice is Kill zombies and loot magazines everything else is secondary.

 

Rather let the players play how they want to and not force them into a single play style IMO.

 

No one is being punished.  I empathize with those who don't like doing activity A or B, however the game has always had progression in its design and activities to explore the world.

 

It's like saying you want to play chess but only want to use a few of the pieces but expect the same results as someone who uses all the pieces.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

 

Looter: Did you build that roof with a 45 or 60 degree angle?

 

Builder: No, I think a 22.5 degree angle is better.  Why?

 

Looter: Exactly, you stick to building and I'll stick to looting. Thank you very much....

 

 

 

No one is being punished.  I empathize with those who don't like doing activity A or B, however the game has always had progression in its design and activities to explore the world.

 

It's like saying you want to play chess but only want to use a few of the pieces but expect the same results as someone who uses all the pieces.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that it has always had progression in it, but this system just feels the most limited out of all the ones they have tried so far.

 

Learn by Doing

Skill Tree V1

Skill Tree V2

Learn By Looting

 

I may be missing some, but the point is by locking away all skills behind magical magazines is very limiting IMO.

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11 minutes ago, Annihilatorza said:

I agree that it has always had progression in it, but this system just feels the most limited out of all the ones they have tried so far.

 

Learn by Doing

Skill Tree V1

Skill Tree V2

Learn By Looting

 

I may be missing some, but the point is by locking away all skills behind magical magazines is very limiting IMO.

 

LBL is only regards to crafting, not all skills.  

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37 minutes ago, Annihilatorza said:

but this system just feels the most limited

 

We will be sure to listen to feedback about how the system feels once we have people who have actually felt it and not imagined what it must be like based on the limited revealed information so far. There is no way any discussion at this point is going to make them roll back the changes they've made before they can see it tested in the hands of thousands.

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1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

No one is being punished.  I empathize with those who don't like doing activity A or B, however the game has always had progression in its design and activities to explore the world.

Due to the schematics and the parts, you were forced to explore and go looting anyway. However, you could at least build some basic equipment without spending more than one or two days looting. I am curious how long it will take until I will have iron tools, a forge and a workbench in A21. In A20 I have that within the first week.

 

Edited by RipClaw (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

Due to the schematics and the parts, you were forced to explore and go looting anyway. However, you could at least build some basic equipment without spending more than one or two days looting. I am curious how long it will take until I will have iron tools, a forge and a workbench in A21. In A20 I have that within the first week.

 

I hope you don't expect it to take the same amount of time... they did all this to slow down the progression in the first place... :ballchain:

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29 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

I hope you don't expect it to take the same amount of time... they did all this to slow down the progression in the first place... :ballchain:

With every change, someone says they do it to slow down progress. Only the Fun Pimps know if this is true.

Let's put it this way, if I'm still running around with stone tools on day 14, it's too slow.
 

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3 hours ago, Gamida said:

 

 

 

 

I see it more like this...

 

Matt:  "Hey Roland, we really need to build workstations ASAP.  Can you focus on finding more workstation mags on your next scavenge run?"

 

Roland: "Matt, We are in dire need of water and food but I can see what I can do.  I saw a neighborhood of houses to the east yesterday.  Lots of those may have workstations I can check.

 

Matt:  "While you are out could you check all the newsstands and see if there any skeletons around I could harvest?"

 

Roland: "Matt, I keep telling you there aren't any newsstands like you want or skeletons"

 

Matt:  "Awwww, that is a shame. Well in that case while you are out could you check all the newsstands and see if there are any skeletons around I can harvest?"

 

Roland: "Sure Matt, sure. Will keep and eye out."

 

3 hours ago, Roland said:


Bah! My charity barely extends to me stepping away from looting to fill up the drip chest at all and only so as to free up inventory space. 
 


Woah, at what point did Roland suddenly start comprehending whatever the hell Matt was talking about…? 😜

 

3 hours ago, Gamida said:

 

 

This was an alternate universe I was talking about. Pfft, I don't expect you to understand Matt in the real world.

 

Now the real game...who got dissed in the statement above.

 

3 hours ago, Roland said:

 Haha...you're forgetting about all the min maxers out there. It would be more like:

 

Builder: Hey Roland we need more Forge Ahead books

 

Looter: Okay, Matt. I saw some buildings that probably have some workstations and I also saw a Working Stiffs. I'll check them out.

 

Builder: Wait! Did you perk into Engineering at all?

 

Looter: nooooooo....

 

Builder: Stop!!!! No!!!! Stay away from those places, damn you!!! LAZ!!! Go loot those containers because Roland isn't worthy!!!!!

 

 

Obviously you dissed yourself. Alternate universes aren't actually real.

 

It would be something like :

Roland : i will check this because i have this books and... this... hm... Laz... have this this not. Okay i will check  this POis

<2 hours later>

Roland Why there is sea of wooden spikes?

Matt: Did you heard about ww1? Well this is something like that but much bigger

Roland: ....but... books...

Matt: Who cares we need 20 more lines of spikes!

 

BTW! everyone LBL LBL LBL

BUT

NOTHING

ABOUT 

THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS : WHAT NEW ABOUT SKELETONS AND NEWSSTANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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