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Naz

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Naz last won the day on June 4 2019

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  1. it's still there, just renamed. i'm not going to say what it is now since i'm not 100% sure if it was renamed due to exploits.
  2. Ran some more benchmarks for a19.2 in general support. I'll just post the tldr tables instead of cluttering the dev diary 😛 Ultra Settings Lower Settings
  3. To save listing the same info again, i'll just list anything that's changed and for the rest you can refer back to the A19.0 Benchmarks. I've just tested on "hotbox" and it's had a couple of hardware changes, I bought a new GPU for "trident" and sold the 1080 and one of the 1080ti's, so i plan to just pass it down to hotbox (buddy sharing the single 1080ti between the 2 systems until the new one turns up ) It's also got some new ram. So the A19.0 test results in the other thread aren't comparable, the A19.0 results here are with the new hardware. Systems Tested Hotbox Benchmarks 7DTD A19 Ultra Settings Table.xlsx A19.2 B3 Ultra Settings A19.2 B3 Lower Settings 7DTD A19 Lower Settings Table.xlsx Conclusion A19.2 Brings us some nice gains in AVG and Max framerates, however the 0.1% lows have suffered slightly, at least in this 1 sample size. What puzzles me is the losses in the overclocked 0.1% lows, Usually it would mean the clocks went stable, but for the CPU oc i validated with 168 hour looping H.264 Encoding test. The ram's XMP profile isn't all that crazy, the cpu's memory controller should have no problems with it, i used to have 3600Mhz ram paired with that CPU, so i don't think it's that. For the GPU oc, Initially i left the Unigine Heaven benchmark running for a few hours and since i got it in 2017 i slowly dialled things back over time playing games until it never crashed or displayed artifacts, i've been running those gpu oc setting for well over a year and half without issue. So overall it's a good bit better but those stutters are still present. Given how quickly those changes were made it's quite impressive, i'm confident things will continue to improve overtime well done pimps 😃
  4. I can't say for sure for that aspect ratio, i have a 21:9 3840x1600 and 7dtd seems to work quite well with it. The only 2 nit picks i have really is 1. the loading screen images get stretched, it's not too bad in 21:9 but it would be worse in 32:9 i'd imagine, but not a big issue. 2. some ui elements are sometimes not positioned conveniently for ultra wide users. Things like the buff pop outs and active quests are right in the far corners and can strain your eyes a bit stretching to look over there. But those are very minor issues and as a whole it works quite well on ultra wides, so i'd say go for it.
  5. They should offer you a special quest after you do 10 normal quests (afaik there is no way to see how many you've done with 1 specific trader) for them. However they stop giving them after 5 special quests, so if like me you played on rwg with more than 5 traders on the map, you'll end up doing infinite quests trying to get the 6th one, then eventually realise it stops after 5 XD
  6. yeah, wished they launched a 3080ti that supported it. I have an order for a Aorus RTX 3090 XTREME but who knows when that will turn up XD I still plan on a second one but later on dec or jan hopefully the supply craze has settled by then. Although i'm pretty sure it's the end of the road for sli in 7dtd, i wouldn't be surprised if a single 3090 gets completely CPU bottlenecked even at 4k, i very much doubt it will scale at all with another. But only 1 way to find out
  7. Thank you for jumping in. I've been following your post in the dev diary and it's great to hear about all these optimisations in the works. I'd be happy to do some follow up tests for a19.2, but it will just be "hotbox" and I've swapped out the 1080 for one of the 1080ti's i had in "trident" (Bought a 3090, flipped the 1080 and one of the 2 1080ti's then shuffled down the spare to the htpc ) I already have the stock numbers for a19.0 with the new card in and should have the oc numbers later today, so i should be ready when .2 comes out. If you have a spare minute i'd be interested to hear your take on 7DTD and virtual threads & core count. I know the gains in the tridents numbers above with the smt/off,6 core profile can largely be attributed to ryzen 3000's chiplet design, forcing 7dtd to use only cores on a single ccd + the higher oc. But even with the same clock speeds it performs significantly better with 4-6 cores and no hyper threading/smt. I tested it last on intel in a17 and setting manual cpu affinity to make 7dtd use only 4 real cores and assigning any background processes to the virtual threads resulted in +12% avg and +25% in the 1%lows, compared to just letting 7dtd use all 4 cores and 8 threads. Could it be the way hyper threading works? In the way even though task manager will see a 4 core with HT as an 8 core, it's still a 4 core and the virtual threads only work when there is a pause/break/gap in command queuing on the main thread, so if 2 process are time dependant on each other and they're both assigned to the 2 threads that are on the same core, if that main thread is maxed out the virtual thread has to wait for the few times the main thread is free/waiting on another process to finish. That's my best guess with a very limited understanding anyway 😜 I know scaling with more and more cores has been the white whale of game developers for years, but usually the answers are generally a very vague "it just hard" I probably won't understand 100% the actual reasons why, but i find this kind of stuff super interesting none the less.😃
  8. On the topic of performance, i posted some benchmark results in #general support if anyone is interested. The tests where done on 2 systems, amd and intel both tests with 2 graphics option configs. One system was also tested in SLI and many cores vs fewer cores, smt on/off. Some interesting results, but best viewed on desktop the tables get a bit wide XD
  9. First up some disclaimers and notes on the benchmarks. 1. These figures should be taken as ball park figures and not absolute values. 7DTD is a very difficult game to benchmark accurately. It's in alpha and sometimes does weird things. Also some things are difficult to account for such as the ai, they will behave differently and spawn differently every run, which leads to #2. 2. What's controlled for and what's not I haven't controlled for driver versions & windows versions. My goal was just to get "close enough" results instead of 100% accurate as possible. That said i have controlled for memory leaks, restarting the game after every run. Time of day is reset from the console after every run. When changing resolution i changed ingame before shutting down then validated with the unity screen selector on next launch. Background programs were closed for the tests. No zombies/animals where killed so areas weren't "cleared" until x amount of days, to insure that on following runs they would respawn (Although i can't do much if zombies kill animals or vise versa etc). I only did 1 pass on each test, however any result that didn't look right or didn't make sense was discarded and retested. 3. 2 systems isn't enough to draw definitive conclusions for every configuration, no AMD GPU's were tested, only windows for the OS ect. The conclusions found here may or may not apply to your own systems, these results are only really comparable if you have similar hardware. But they will however give an idea of where the current performance is at with the hardware that was tested. 4. It's Alpha Any update could change any conclusions drawn from these tests. Also as a work in progress things are always improving and getting worse, by the time 7DTD goes gold these results with be obsolete and invalid. Things are always changing in alpha. 5. Console Options used Since A17 I've always used sg optionsviewdistance 90 to increase the field of view to 90 degrees and sg optionsviewdistance to increase the view distance to 12. A18.somthing brought back the FOV slider but it's max is 85 degrees, i doubt the 5 degree less fov has any measurable impact on performance. So i stopped using it for a19, However all other tests are run with the increased view distance. 6. Tests on different resolutions were done on monitors native aspect ratio 16:9 Resolutions were tested on an Asus PB287Q 4K 60HZ Monitor 21:9 Resolution was tested on an LG 38GL950G 3840x1600 175Hz Monitor 7. The benchmark Run I've been using the same run since A14 for all tests, you can find more details on the exact run in my a15 benchmarks i did ages ago Here Systems Tested Systems Overclock Notes 2 Different video Settings Tested Hotbox Benchmarks A19.0 B180 Ultra Settings Hotbox 7DTD A19 Ultra Settings Table.xlsx A18.2 B5 Ultra Settings A19.0 B180 Lower Settings Hotbox 7DTD A19 Lower Settings Table.xlsx A18.2 B5 Lower Settings Trident Benchmarks Trident specific note The system "Trident" has much more going on, so there is much more to test. We'll be looking at your standard tests ultra and lower settings like Hotbox, plus those tests with SLI. Also based on my tests 7DTD runs best with 4 true cores, no Hyper Threading or SMT . I didn't test that on Hotbox in it's current config, but in previous alphas before i put the I7 6700K in there i got much better performance with my I5 4670K than i did with the 6700K. So it seems to apply to both Intel and AMD CPU's. Also the 3950x/newer AMD CPU's are build a bit differently to Intel/Standard CPU designs. Normally there is just 1 die on the chip or a "monolithic die" all the cores, cache, io controller is all on one "chip". AMD's newer CPU's have multiple die's or "chiplets" the die's that have the CPU's core are called compute complex's "CCD's" and each "CCD" is split into multiple groups of cores (CCX's). They communicate with each other and other ccd's through a super fast bus called "Infinity Fabric". While these are very fast and have minimal impact on performance in some workloads. It's still slower than if all the processing was done on 1 chip. So with those 2 things in mind i made a "gaming profile" in the bios that i switch to for the best performance when gaming. One of the 2 CCD's is disabled and 1 of each of the remaining CCX's cores are also disabled, as well as Hyper Threading (SMT). This leaves 6 Cores and 6 threads all in one CCD. Although 4 cores is best my tests showed minimal loss in performance, so i chose 6 to make it more general, if i was playing another game that utilised more threads. With much more thermal and power available with this setting i was also able to get a higher overclock on this profile, All these things combined results in huge performance gains compared to having all cores enabled. Ultra Settings Single GPU Benchmarks Trident Benchmark 7DTD A19 Ultra Settings Single GPU Table.xlsx Lower Settings Single GPU Benchmarks Trident Benchmark 7DTD A19 Lower Settings Single GPU Table.xlsx Ultra Settings 2X SLI Benchmarks Trident Benchmark 7DTD A19 Ultra Settings SLI Table.xlsx Lower Settings 2X SLI Benchmarks Trident Benchmark 7DTD A19 Lower Settings SLI GPU Table.xlsx Conclusions A18-A19 We can see that in higher resolutions performance has increased and lowered at lower ones. This shows us that there have been some GPU optimisations, this supports the claim of the new zombies being easier on your graphics card, so it should improve a little more when all types have been updated which is great. The losses at lower resolutions tell us that CPU optimisations have taken a hit this alpha, 7DTD is a massively CPU bound game and any losses in this area is going to have the biggest effect. This theory is confirmed by the substantial losses in the 1% and 0.1% lows across all tests, which also demonstrate the stuttering issues persisting in A19, as well as the losses at lower resolutions. Cores & Hyper Threading ON or OFF We can see massive gains going from the all core profile to the 6 thread profile. At 1080p we see anywhere from 20%-50% increase in performance. Although i didn't post the older results on Intel, i can say it helps but not to the same degree it does on tridents 3950x. The reasons for the massive bump in performance in this case were several factors. The higher OC we could get with less cores enabled. Forcing 7DTD to utilise fewer cores with 4 being the best in my tests. Disabling SMT no idea why 7DTD doesn't perform well with virtual threads, some other games are like that, but most games just don't show any meaningful difference on or off. 3rd Gen Ryzen cpu's different CPU Design performing better if we make 7DTD only use cores on 1 CCD. SLI There is no official support for sli in 7DTD so we need to rely on 3rd party profiles. That said for a voxel game the gains it can bring can be quite surprising. At 4K on the gaming profile we see scaling of over 30%. SLI in 7DTD always goes back to it's CPU Bound nature. It can scale positively and provide more performance but only if the CPU is strong enough. We can see this looking at scaling with the all core profile vs the gaming profile on 4k lower settings. SLI performs worse than a single GPU until we get to 4K and at stock it's a measly 2% gain vs the overclocks 18% gain. Meanwhile the gaming profile only scaled negatively at 1080p stock, 1440p and above all scaled positively with 4k oc scaling to over 32% where we're now GPU bound. CPU overclocking and fast ram are pretty much required for positive scaling.
  10. I've been getting in some good a19 time and wanted to ask about the biome fog in the burnt forest and wasteland. It's really atmospheric and spooky, which is great however it's not so great when you're flying over those biomes in the gyro. You can't see anything unless you fly close to the ground, but then you end up crashing into buildings and mountains that appear right in front of you out of no where. I had a look at the xml and couldn't find a way to change the density of it other than weather fog, i did find something in another xml but that was a global setting for day and night. So for now i've just added the snow biomes spectrum to those biomes. Is there any possibility of something like biome fog having altitude, so it only goes so high above the ground? or maybe something like flying goggles that work similarly to night vision. but you can see through fog with them .
  11. Unfortunately not, Lobby's are usually unique to the server, i'd have to strip all the branding and all the features specific to my server (player run stores,discovery bounties,Donner personal quarters, landing craft new player spawn system/fast travel portals). The carrier lobby also has the issue the poi version has relating to size, so it has to be split into 2. To get it floating on water is another hurdle, It takes hours to get it in stable no one wants that job XD. The first a16 lobby was a modified old courthouse poi i used as a placeholder until i built my own. I never converted it past a17, The mile high club was just a for fun build on the a16 server, i still have the files but they would need to be converted to a17>a18>a19, it was a simple build so it's not really worth it.
  12. What do you call the secondary weapon perks like perceptions demolition expert and strengths sledge hammer perk(I forget the name :)) I notice that fortidue and intellect don't have one, is there any plans to fill those out? Fortidue could have like a riot shield with spikes on it, that you bash zs with and it's secondary action could be similar to how the bow drains your stamina while you have an arrow drawn, but when you hold up the shield it blocks damage (while draining stamina). Not sure about intellect, I know it techically does have a secondary weapon option, making traps etc. Could maybe use a early game ranged weapon skill, like a sling shot that you craft different 'projectiles' like posion/chemical/acid shots or explosives or shrapnel shots. I also wondered if it would be feasible to add a repair item currently selected in toolbelt hotkey? maybe with a modifier to prevent unintentional repairs like shift+Y or somthing.
  13. Thank you but Although i'll lose points with you saying this, i'm a nerdpoler XD I think it's gotten a bad rap from people exploiting it, nerdpoling up to the roof to the loot etc, i'm not one of those types. I use it because it's more convenient than finding where the stairs are and it doesn't waste time and wood compared to ladders since you can pick it up and reuse it. I was in a poi today for example, the floor had those damaged concrete blocks and zombies had fallen in the hole and made a 1x2 hole in there, i fell in rofl. So the situation was i could either waste wood on a ladder i would only use once, spend an early game point on parkour to get out, not an option when you need as much Survivability and damage output as possible at that difficulty, maybe later on i could spare some but not early game. Or i could dig myself out the old fashioned way, given i had stone tools and it was concrete, it's not really an option. So frames in that case were justified in that situation in my option. Also with hordes every night you can't nerdpole up to a roof and go make a coffee until morning, after day 6 wood structures won't last the night. I like to live like a nomad early game since i don't have the equipment or resources to build a base capable of surviving a horde, i've been surviving going to a different building each night until i can build something i can fight from. Maybe one day i'll try to rid myself of the nerdpoling habbit as a personal challenge but thats my take on frames and nerdpoling, very video gamey but i don't think they are always cheesy it depends. You're not alone on that one, if it makes you feel better everyone gets frustrated at times even the devs get frustrated that zyx feature isn't currently possible due to reason xyz. Sometimes it is possible but the devs have only so much time and they have to decide what feature will benefit the most players to justify the time to develop. The best thing we can do in these situations is provide clear evidence like a short to the point video showing what is possible then a logical and detailed explanation on my it would be better for the game to have. However there is always the chance that it will just never happen despite all that and unfortunately thats just the nature of early access. I know MM says this a lot but he is right when he says if it's not planned for vanilla, mod it. It's maybe not always as simple as that, there may not be a mod doing the thing you want and if your just looking at xpath for the first time it can be pretty intimidating, but it doesn't take too long before you can tweak the game to be what you want it to be. I think exploits will get looked into more as it gets closer to beta, once all the content and features are in they will likely focus on balance like that. I really don't think they're trying to spite you, they want the game to do well as much as you or me do, i think at worst they won't respond because they'd like it to be the way you want but they can't due to time,technical reasons etc. They want too be able to say yes to everyone but sometimes they just can't fortunately. Also lol don't get banned, how will we be able to read your survival stories
  14. StyK i don't post here too often but i do come here every now than then to see what the devs are saying. I've been reading your posts over the last few days and i just wanted to say a few things. First i'd suggest you take a moment and think about how your current attitude is going to get any traction with the devs. You're clearly a skilled player with lots to offer the game and community in that area, I did find it interesting reading how you play the game and how you overcome the challenges that playstyle brings. I recently started a nightmare/insane/25%loot/horde night every night game, i had heard MM talk about it before and a player on my a18 server suggested it but i just never got around to it until now. after 11 attempts i'm on day 15 so far so good XD. With that said, think about your current attitude and how likely it is to get the devs to make the changes you want. Think about it from their perspective, they have to make the game not just for skilled players and certain play styles but for everyone's. Now ask yourself if someone with a toxic attitude asked you to makes changes just for them, would you be very receptive to that? of course not. The devs have been bending over backwards just trying to be patient with you . The best way to get there attention is to provide a clear, polite and logical argument as to why you think something should be changed and if you can clearly demonstrate your case, all the better. But the devs will be very unlikely to look into issues brought to them in a toxic manor. I know some things can get frustrating, but you have to ask yourself will venting my frustrations on the forms in this way be the best way to get the devs to look into your issues? Also depositing your frustrations on other users isn't going to help the situation either. There are many different types of players with many different types of playstyles. There is no wrong way to play the game as long as you're having fun and enjoying it that's all that matters. I think some things are cheesy/OP too. For example i don't like airdrops, i think they make no sense in an apocalypse. If you're a survivor and some how have access to a working aircraft, why would you throw your supplies out of the back so "maybe" another survivor can find it. It just wouldn't happen, plus the loot is too much in them imo. But i still kept them enabled on my a18 server even tho i never looted them, my base was surrounded with dozens of unclaimed airdrops that i just ignored, Why? because other players enjoy them, not everyone will like your personal preference and trying to force your style on others and put down anyone else that doesn't want to play on nightmare isn't going to make you any friends or earn you any respect. The people on this form are fellow survivors and if you just listen to what they say and discuss instead of judging their play style, you may find they can have interesting ideas and strategies that may even benefit yours. I wouldn't take being passed up on being a tester personally. I applied for A19 but was also never chosen, the thing you need to understand is they need people that will not just play the game but take the time to test issues thoroughly to make them easier to fix and easily recognisable as an issue. They also get hundreds if not thousands of applicants and only need so many people. I don't post on the forms all that often, i mostly live on the 7dtd admin coalition discord where i volunteer as tech support. I also build much of the 7DAC website, wrote a couple articles on the prefab editor, i've made mods for the community and spend over 1000 hours making a super aircraft carrier POI. I've even filled bug reports before the bug report form was even a thing. I lists these things not as a flex or because i'm mad i never got chosen, but to demonstrate that although i could have made significant contributions as a tester, they only need so many people and instead of taking it to heart and getting a chip on my shoulder, i instead collaborated with one of the people that did get chosen and gave them a18 issues to test in a19. Then when A19 went exp instead of just saying in a off hand comment this is bugged/broken and expecting the devs to fix it and refusing to write any bug reports because i mentioned the issue and it was never fixed, therefor there is no point in filling a proper report. I instead took the time to write out a report that clearly showed the issue with solid hard data to back it up. That report did get looked into by the devs and as far as i know it's the most viewed bug report for a19. I'm telling you this not to try to put you down or flex to the devs in an attempt to get chosen next time. But because i want to show you how you can get the devs to take an issue seriously and how to make it more likely they will take action. I don't expect to get chosen for testing and even if they said i would never get chosen i would still contribute, because like you i'm passionate about the game and want it to improve. The only difference is how we approached the situation. The reason i'm saying all this, is if you continue with your current attitude you're just going to have a day where you step over the line and end up getting banned. No one wants to lose members of the community just because of frustration. You have lots of insight to to offer the community and the game on high level play. So i'd ask you think about my suggestions and how you can contribute positively. It would be better and less frustrating for you and better for everyone. So please don't take this as an attack on you i just want to share some food for thought with you, thats all. Cheers
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