Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[unholyjoe]

34 minutes ago, jorbascrumps said:

 

Always the beacon of positivity! That's a great way to look at it.

yes he is, just as he has hopes that the ziplines will follow the followers.

 

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

Let's be optimistic and speculate that the Drone in 7 Days to Die may lead to development of Followers in the next game.

 

1 hour ago, jorbascrumps said:

 

Always the beacon of positivity! That's a great way to look at it.

Well ofc not. Followers in game is such annoing as escort mission. I never use them in skyrim because this is mostly time just uncessary problem

[jorbascrumps]

11 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

Well ofc not. Followers in game is such annoing as escort mission. I never use them in skyrim because this is mostly time just uncessary problem

 

Some people actually like mechanics in their games.

[Matt115]

53 minutes ago, jorbascrumps said:

 

Some people actually like mechanics in their games.

I know - but i think most people had "stuck in door" skyrim companion problem

i mean people who played in skyrim with followers

[Games'n'Grumble]

4 hours ago, sillls said:

I am wondering if TFP's have changed their minds about adding followers to the game.

 

The last time we talked. Madmole did not like the idea because he didn't think that followers could path there way though player dug mines, POI's and rough terrain. 

However now that I have seen the Drone in action. I could see that pathing is no longer an issue. As the Drone can pass though solid objects and won't get hung up. 

So I was thinking that the bipedal Follower could work now. Maybe make it so the follower could pass though and or over stuff that has got them hung up. Perhaps even adding a quadrupedal like a dog as well. 

These followers would be a good fit and go better with the game imho. 

 

Keep the Drone, add the followers please. 

As I suppose, it's not just about how the dog is (I guess we're not just talking about a follower, but about something specific?) will follow the player though and that too. From the player's point of view, it looks as simple as possible - something like "replace the drone model with a dog model and that's it," but from the developer's point of view, a lot of questions arise at once.
1. where will the dogs live? Will they need to be installed in hundreds of POIs or will they be like wild animals?
2. how to tame a dog? This is the development of new mechanics, for example, feeding, which should not be like "throwing a piece of meat at a dog - he's your friend"
3. How can I limit the player to only one dog?
4. Or can I buy a dog from a trader? Then how will the player "install" it in the world?
5. How will the dog climb ladders, climb out of mines after the player, pass through doors?
6. If the dog lags behind the player, will it magically teleport? Or is it a dog that runs at the speed of a motorcycle?
7. How will the dog react to zombies during stealth?
8. How will the dog need to be watered and fed?
9. Should there be special perks for the dog? Do we need to rebalance perks?
10. How will the dog behave during the blood moon? After all, he has to attack and the zombies have to react to him too?
These are the first questions that come to mind, not to mention models, animations, sounds, changes in AI, and so on. The drone answers (or has already answered) these questions, and the dog can greatly slow down the development. Nevertheless, if suddenly TFP can solve this at a high level, then I will only be happy and enthusiastically clap my hands.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Games'n'Grumble (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

Just now, Telly G said:

I really hope that the armor system has 6 or 7 slots cos 4 is just too low compared to the 12 now.

The point is not in the number of slots. The point is, if you can do the same stuff you do now, with less clutter.

[Telly G]

4 hours ago, sillls said:

I am wondering if TFP's have changed their minds about adding followers to the game.

 

The last time we talked. Madmole did not like the idea because he didn't think that followers could path there way though player dug mines, POI's and rough terrain. 

However now that I have seen the Drone in action. I could see that pathing is no longer an issue. As the Drone can pass though solid objects and won't get hung up. 

So I was thinking that the bipedal Follower could work now. Maybe make it so the follower could pass though and or over stuff that has got them hung up. Perhaps even adding a quadrupedal like a dog as well. 

These followers would be a good fit and go better with the game imho. 

 

Keep the Drone, add the followers please. 

 

With bandito AI in A21 I bet that ppl will just base pathing off them for followers than what they currently do with NPCMod and other such things. 

2 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

The point is not in the number of slots. The point is, if you can do the same stuff you do now, with less clutter.

I dont know why 'but they give perks tho' is always the go to response when thats not what people mean with 4 slots is too few.

[Blake_]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Let's be optimistic and speculate that the Drone in 7 Days to Die may lead to development of Followers in the next game.

Well I expect limited "escorting" missions, with npcs having some teleporting capabilities if they get stuck for a while. That would count as a " follower" wouldn't it?

[Roland]

2 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Well I expect limited "escorting" missions, with npcs having some teleporting capabilities if they get stuck for a while. That would count as a " follower" wouldn't it?

 

Matt says no.

[NukemDed]

2 hours ago, jorbascrumps said:

 

Some people actually like mechanics in their games.

I wouldnt mind a sparky in game to help me figure out electricity

Edited June 23, 2022 by NukemDed (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

34 minutes ago, NukemDed said:

I wouldnt mind a sparky in game to help me figure out electricity

 

Probably see the return of Clippy

[Matt115]

2 hours ago, Blake_ said:

Well I expect limited "escorting" missions, with npcs having some teleporting capabilities if they get stuck for a while. That would count as a " follower" wouldn't it?

I hope not 

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Matt says no.

Well thx Roland for remember about me. I don't have nothing new to say for some time - new iron armor looks too good to complain and start topic about aestatic and hm... universal enough so i don't have any new theories about armors. Well i started to play with my friend in deep rocks  galactic - and there are M.U.L.L robots  - this is voxel game too so their patchfinding is only good because this robots can go everywhere even on wall. So i don't see option to add escorting mission into 7dtd. I mean now - if this idea was said during A12 i would support this idea because... 7dtd's map was much simpler. Well just let them finish this game as fast as they can. This will be best option for everyone

[sillls]

7 hours ago, unholyjoe said:

yes he is, just as he has hopes that the ziplines will follow the followers.

 

Is he still on that Joe? Roland never gives up. lol 

[unholyjoe]

28 minutes ago, sillls said:

Is he still on that Joe? Roland never gives up. lol 

it's no worse then Matt and his skeletons.... dang i went and said that word.. 

 

[RipClaw]

14 hours ago, Roland said:

Furthermore, the change is purely for crafting. Many of the things you can craft you can also find in loot or can purchase from the trader.

Actually, everything you can craft you can also find or buy from the trader. As far as I know, there is nothing important that you can only get by crafting it. On the contrary, there are things that you can only find or buy but not craft.

 

14 hours ago, Roland said:

So even if you are unable to craft something until you find enough magazines, you are not completely blocked from those items.

Although sometimes frustrating, it makes a game more interesting when you reach a dead end and have to find a way around it. There are veteran players who still tell stories about the time when they couldn't find the Forge Ahead book.
 

[Morloc]

18 hours ago, jorbascrumps said:

 

Some people actually like mechanics in their games.

 

Indeed!

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc

[meilodasreh]

7 hours ago, RipClaw said:

 

Although sometimes frustrating, it makes a game more interesting when you reach a dead end and have to find a way around it. There are veteran players who still tell stories about the time when they couldn't find the Forge Ahead book.
 

Being limited does makes the challenge and is more or less the whole point of motivation, especially in survival/sandbox games.

If you had everything you want in a sufficient amount right from the beginning, there would be no challenge, and it would become rather boring really fast,

especially in said sandbox games.

It would be like godmode, or in this case, creative mode.

 

...I don't like creative mode though, because my creativity is so limited 😀

[BFT2020]

On 5/23/2022 at 11:37 AM, overgoat said:

I like the idea in concept, but having your weapons break and become unrepairable mid-blood moon would be very frustrating.  We have have pretty high zombie count set on our blood moons and I usually have to repair my M60 six or seven times a blood moon.  Having to carry tons of extras of the same weapon wouldn't be too fun.

 

I did this to my game and I have found it to very fun to play.  It is all about planning ahead of time.  Setting up some boxes ahead of time with backup weapons and then making sure I have enough on hand for the blood moon changes up the gameplay.  I am approaching Day 28 so I am now in the process of crafting backup weapons and prepping my base for the horde coming, which means I hope I have enough materials and parts on hand to get everything done in time  😁

[Khyron]

Does anyone else find themselves often startled by the "trader open" alert?

 

I don't know if it's the volume or what but when I stand outside a trader at 5:50am and wait for them to open something about the noise always seems to catch me off guard and make me jump a bit.

[Blake_]

On 6/23/2022 at 8:46 PM, Telly G said:

I really hope that the armor system has 6 or 7 slots cos 4 is just too low compared to the 12 now.

 

Something like head, shoulders, arms, legs, feet, and chest (maybe underarmor)

 

It would also fit nicer with the perk magazines being around that much for full sets. 

Sorry. 4. But we get 5 times the "enchantments". Before it was cigar, glasses and... running shoes? Now every piece has 2-4 effects PLUS full armour bonus. As of cosmetic reasons... mmm you can paint them? They can always make more, which they said it's a maybe. A maybe for TFP is a YES if their vision fits. That's the cool thing about this studio.

 

Edit: Just wait until "Shapespeare" finishes with his current task and all of a sudden we get 1300 new armour sets, even for misfits,lol.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Blake_ (see edit history)

[Telly G]

7 hours ago, Blake_ said:

Sorry. 4. But we get 5 times the "enchantments". Before it was cigar, glasses and... running shoes? Now every piece has 2-4 effects PLUS full armour bonus. As of cosmetic reasons... mmm you can paint them? They can always make more, which they said it's a maybe. A maybe for TFP is a YES if their vision fits. That's the cool thing about this studio.

 

Edit: Just wait until "Shapespeare" finishes with his current task and all of a sudden we get 1300 new armour sets, even for misfits,lol.

unless the dyeing system is overhauled to not just be a full color tint for a more ARK style of doing it with individual color regions that take coloring better then who cares that we can tint it green like we already can?. 6 armor slots is pretty standard in tons and tons of RPG games. (slot 7 could be back now that I think of it)

Edited June 25, 2022 by Telly G (see edit history)

[Telly G]

On 6/23/2022 at 8:09 AM, George Gordon said:

Mucho Texto

 

I think the heart of the issue here is that 7dtd's mid to late game (everything after the first week or two) is kind of non existent apart from stronger zombie variants appearing in hordes. There's not much reason to not just start a new game to redo the early game after a month in game which is an issue.  

 

The LBL system just needs like 1 or 2 things added to it to make it so much more appealing. Yes, yes, I know you get more of what you spec into, but that doesn't address the multiplayer question. Instead of scrapping into paper schematics and perk/skill magazines should scrap into a resource that you can use to make things you're missing or want to specifically spec into without relying on RNG. The core of this idea is from the Undead Legacy mod overhaul's research workbenches.

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, Telly G said:

 

I think the heart of the issue here is that 7dtd's mid to late game (everything after the first week or two) is kind of non existent apart from stronger zombie variants appearing in hordes. There's not much reason to not just start a new game to redo the early game after a month in game which is an issue.  

 

The LBL system just needs like 1 or 2 things added to it to make it so much more appealing. Yes, yes, I know you get more of what you spec into, but that doesn't address the multiplayer question.

 

What multiplayer question is there? Co-op players will advance faster since they loot more and can share the magazines they find that others need but they don't.

 

4 hours ago, Telly G said:

Instead of scrapping into paper schematics and perk/skill magazines should scrap into a resource that you can use to make things you're missing or want to specifically spec into without relying on RNG. The core of this idea is from the Undead Legacy mod overhaul's research workbenches.

 

[Telly G]

24 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

What multiplayer question is there? Co-op players will advance faster since they loot more and can share the magazines they find that others need but they don't.

 

 

The multiplayer question is not everything in multiplayer is co-op looting so how does the dedicated builder get better tools to gather resources for the base if the others do not have mining tools specced?

 

I have seen this be brought up repeatedly when you n the others seem to miss the point that it's still entirely RNG based, even if you can weight it in certain directions.

 

Ppl divide themselves into roles in multiplayer and Ive seen more than one ppl say they have a dedicated POI looter or two in their small group on the server. I really don't understand the pushback against being able to recycle unwanted progression books into a resource to get what you want more at certainly a higher rate like 2 recycled to 1 handmade + resources like paper and whatever else needed.

[Laz Man]

55 minutes ago, Telly G said:

I really don't understand the pushback against being able to recycle unwanted progression books into a resource to get what you want more at certainly a higher rate like 2 recycled to 1 handmade + resources like paper and whatever else needed.

 

Not sure if a research/scrap system is needed.  Maybe something that can be considered after its first iteration to the public.

 

When I read about the new crafting magazine system, I originally thought of a similar system that you mentioned.  Then I realized that there are already plenty of sources for magazines (e.g. POIs, Trader stock, quest rewards). 

 

All a research/scrap option is a simplified linear recycler that speed ups the progression of learning magazines vs engaging in the existing avenues for finding the ones you want.