Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[samljer]

9 hours ago, faatal said:

The inside detection is not that great and could use more research. You also end up with cases like you are inside, but zombies are too, so it should not be muffled for them except maybe their indoors is really adjacent to yours in another room/building, so it should be muffled.

Couldnt a single raycast between zombie and player do that; one raycast per zombie?

Like if it goes interrupted, then half sound, otherwise full?

of course "if horde night" then disabled.

 

[Sirillion]

Here’s to hoping they never add skeletons for anything but inanimate art assets.

 

Skeletons have no muscles and a moving skeleton would then imply magic which wouldn’t fit the games setting.

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Sirillion said:

Here’s to hoping they never add skeletons for anything but inanimate art assets.

 

Skeletons have no muscles and a moving skeleton would then imply magic which wouldn’t fit the games setting.

well this is my point? i want skeleton not as enemy but as props ( like corpses bags etc). but for limited time - like hallowen they can be enemies too - you now we have something for  christmas

 

@faatal small question about cities.  tiles are looking like can be connected with every site to another by road but can we expect something like : 

dead end road with  only drive from one side but on rest are building? 

 

 

[faatal]

12 hours ago, samljer said:

Couldnt a single raycast between zombie and player do that; one raycast per zombie?

Like if it goes interrupted, then half sound, otherwise full?

of course "if horde night" then disabled.

 

It could, but should what you hit block the sound? Say it is a pole or other small obstacle, it should not, which means block shapes would have to be flagged for it. We have a lot of shapes.

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

well this is my point? i want skeleton not as enemy but as props ( like corpses bags etc). but for limited time - like hallowen they can be enemies too - you now we have something for  christmas

 

@faatal small question about cities.  tiles are looking like can be connected with every site to another by road but can we expect something like : 

dead end road with  only drive from one side but on rest are building? 

 

 

Don't know. Robert could tell you.

[Blake_]

1 hour ago, faatal said:

It could, but should what you hit block the sound? Say it is a pole or other small obstacle, it should not, which means block shapes would have to be flagged for it. We have a lot of shapes.

 

Even easier? forget the blocks.

 

Case 1: Does the one raycast fully collide with the player? only distance muffle like it is now then.

 

Case 2: Does it hit a block (ANY block, open or not) ?

Spoiler

(ANY block in between + some assets that you can add the property to, of course I wouldn't add the property to doors or hatches of any type, but yes to cardboard boxes or cobblestone or cement or some domestic appliances, for example)

then we hear Reververated/mildly muffled sound. Poles can be ignored by the raycast, doors too. It's a matter of fine tunning when it's in.

 

STILL has a hefty CPU performance cost... yet it is always better to just  treat  all the blocks the same way (or rather, in a binary way). Just 1 raycast per entity to each player individually is the best approach. 

 

The downside to this approach is that you have to add the ability to be raycastable or not to every block and asset in the game (tedious and repetitive work once the code is in, but it's not that bad). 

 

Performance cost to each raycast? As intensive as an entity spawning but in real time, so yeah, 100-500% performance cost in lower end computers. Unless you limit the raycasts to like 5 entities at a time, then it would probably be playable.....

 

 

[Adam the Waster]

Also i found some new stuff on the Art station for 7DTD. Stuff may change but heres a Little peak. (I love the spider zombie!)

 

Spoiler

Lab worker

CHIKCKEN!

gore

scrap armor

Nomad gear

 

[Matt115]

1 minute ago, Adam the Waster said:

Also i found some new stuff on the Art station for 7DTD. Stuff may change but heres a Little peak. (I love the spider zombie!)

 

  Hide contents

Lab worker

CHIKCKEN!

gore

scrap armor

Nomad gear

 

god i hate when zombie have only 1 shoes -  better both shoes , socks or totaly barefoot, i hate asymmetric - this same sitation with hand -  it can be both diffrent gloves but on both are gloves or bare . When i see something like that i fell so uncomfortable. rly flesh can be everywhere this same blood , rotting corpses -no problem. but i see asymmetric shoes and gloves? i want to knock out my eyes brrr so bad

[faatal]

19 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Even easier? forget the blocks.

 

Case 1: Does the one raycast fully collide with the player? only distance muffle like it is now then.

 

Case 2: Does it hit a block (ANY block, open or not) ?

  Reveal hidden contents

(ANY block in between + some assets that you can add the property to, of course I wouldn't add the property to doors or hatches of any type, but yes to cardboard boxes or cobblestone or cement or some domestic appliances, for example)

then we hear Reververated/mildly muffled sound. Poles can be ignored by the raycast, doors too. It's a matter of fine tunning when it's in.

 

STILL has a hefty CPU performance cost... yet it is always better to just  treat  all the blocks the same way (or rather, in a binary way). Just 1 raycast per entity to each player individually is the best approach. 

 

The downside to this approach is that you have to add the ability to be raycastable or not to every block and asset in the game (tedious and repetitive work once the code is in, but it's not that bad). 

 

Performance cost to each raycast? As intensive as an entity spawning but in real time, so yeah, 100-500% performance cost in lower end computers. Unless you limit the raycasts to like 5 entities at a time, then it would probably be playable.....

Sure you can just say did it hit anything, but that sounds like of lame and I don't want to spend time on that.

 

Poles and doors are blocks, so that is checking blocks.

 

Raycasts are cheap. You should see the massive amount of raycasts the path grid uses.

[meganoth]

For game play reasons I like it that zombies can hear you through walls.

 

If we had realistic hearing in the game the zombies would have no chance to detect you in a house but could detect you from a kilometre away if you used the chainsaw.

 

[Matt115]

5 minutes ago, meganoth said:

For game play reasons I like it that zombies can hear you through walls.

 

If we had realistic hearing in the game the zombies would have no chance to detect you in a house but could detect you from a kilometre away if you used the chainsaw.

 

well and it could be quiet interresting in my opinion- well maybe mining in caves with auger could be safe enough but it could be risky to cut trees using chainsaw. but going barefoot and using knife you can clean house nice and clear

[meganoth]

24 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

well and it could be quiet interresting in my opinion- well maybe mining in caves with auger could be safe enough but it could be risky to cut trees using chainsaw. but going barefoot and using knife you can clean house nice and clear

 

I doubt that. Because NOW in A19 you can stealthily clean a house nice and clear and have a minimal chance to be detected. If sound is muffled obviously this minimal chance will be much smaller. And you might not even need to use stealth to do this then.

 

[Jost Amman]

17 minutes ago, meganoth said:

I doubt that. Because NOW in A19 you can stealthily clean a house nice and clear and have a minimal chance to be detected. If sound is muffled obviously this minimal chance will be much smaller. And you might not even need to use stealth to do this then.

That happens because stealth is broken (in some conditions), not because the sound is already muffled.

The point is that with dampened sounds, stealth gameplay would become more enjoyable and believable again.

 

I mean, I can live with what we have if there's no time to rework it, but I'd greatly appreciate they fixed both the cases that give us an unfair advantage while sneaking AND the cases where we are sneaking inside a building and the zombies outside hear us while the one in front of us is completely oblivious.

[Matt115]

38 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

I doubt that. Because NOW in A19 you can stealthily clean a house nice and clear and have a minimal chance to be detected. If sound is muffled obviously this minimal chance will be much smaller. And you might not even need to use stealth to do this then.

 

well @Jost Amman told what i mean - this is not feature but shortcoming

[Ezed]

2 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

ah yes, But what about meat skeletons? 


Like a Crawler but with legs 

 

I've said before, and will say again...Crawlers should be able to 'rage' or have a burst of speed...that'd be creepy AF

[MechanicalLens]

1 hour ago, Ezed said:

 

I've said before, and will say again...Crawlers should be able to 'rage' or have a burst of speed...that'd be creepy AF

 

Imagine crawlers moving at Nightmare speed without rest. 

[Fanatical_Meat]

I think the point about sounds being deaden passing thru walls is:

do you want sounds to pass thru walls less and alert fewer zombies

or

Do

you want more zombies in the game

 

do you want to add months on to next alpha and have sound not pass thru walls easily

or

do

you want next alpha to arrive sooner

 

those are really the questions you need to answer and they are likely either or questions. 

[Blake_]

3 hours ago, faatal said:

Sure you can just say did it hit anything, but that sounds like of lame and I don't want to spend time on that.

 

Poles and doors are blocks, so that is checking blocks.

 

Raycasts are cheap. You should see the massive amount of raycasts the path grid uses.

  

I knew you would say that. Only checking the one block (between the player and the entity) at a time is better than you think. It solves most of the annoyance of loud noises that we encounter through the game. 

   

 Yes, raycasts on their own are cheap. Talking to the main thread is not, hence my crazy performance estimation . I believe anything block related has to go through the main thread, does it not? better 1 block than 100.

 

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

For game play reasons I like it that zombies can hear you through walls.

 

If we had realistic hearing in the game the zombies would have no chance to detect you in a house but could detect you from a kilometre away if you used the chainsaw.

 

Yes. I agree. AI has to have that advantage, or else it would be even easier than right now. They already use sleeper volumes that prevent them from hearing you. If anything, I hope feral sense makes it more aware. People tend to forget that to be sneaky you really need the perks and without them we suck big time . Even without perks, sneaking with low light is a walk in the park if you don't engage in combat.

[Guppycur]

4 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

Imagine crawlers moving at Nightmare speed without rest. 

Imagine if crawlers could... Crawl.

 

Up walls, ceilings, etc. 

[Burrfly]

Good day,

I have a little question,

@faatal, do you maybe know if (as noted in the dev diary) the 'animation improvements' also mean like: updated or new zombie/player animations?

[Zeal]

Hi all. I have a question regarding the story line in the game. I am quite a sucker for stories, but is the lore going to be expanded a bit more? Or will it be up to the player's interpretation of things. Because i may have a good story reason as to why early game zombies can be weaker. They have been around for a few years, (suspension of disbelief) and thus have lost some of their strength/endurance. The reason they don't decompose is "low radiation" keeping things stable. While for their appearances ill go with any cloning conspiracy. Doesn't have to be canon for the game, but that is my interpretation. Also its 20 years after the outbreak. As for getting actual story snippets, i cannot wait, if it ever happens. Even with small clues and stories.

[Adam the Waster]

@faatal

Sense you work with AI (I think i don't remember) 


Will any of the special zombies get any changes in terms of ability's 

[Fanatical_Meat]

@faatal I know this could change so I accept your answer now may not the the “correct” answer.

what Will hordes look like in A20? 

IMO the best hordes were A16 give or take. Just feels like the horde time is really tight and without mods they can be anticlimactic.

currently in A19 they aren’t bad I just remember them being more intense.

 

Also will A20 have more zombies roaming around the biom’s vs A19 un-modded?

 

**When I say Tight above I mean the time duration. Feels like older alphas the zombies came all night and you were cleaning them up in the morning. More current alphas feel like an intense but short duration. Like all zombies are cleaned up by 4am now you stand around and wait.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Fanatical_Meat (see edit history)

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Adam the Waster said:

@faatal

Sense you work with AI (I think i don't remember) 


Will any of the special zombies get any changes in terms of ability's 

well i'm sure screamer will want bite you XD 

[LordCorellon]

YOURE SCREWING UP THE SCREAMER!!!

Her long gown and jet black hair made her iconic to 7D2D!!!

Now shes nothing but a run of the mill "demon-zombie"
Its absolutely HORRIBLE!

[Matt115]

20 minutes ago, LordCorellon said:

YOURE SCREWING UP THE SCREAMER!!!

Her long gown and jet black hair made her iconic to 7D2D!!!

Now shes nothing but a run of the mill "demon-zombie"
Its absolutely HORRIBLE!

well now she looks less generic -before she looks more like this girl from ring