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Demandred1957

Mountain lion and direwolf are too OP

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On 7/4/2020 at 7:05 AM, Demandred1957 said:

The Blunderbuss was Q2, and it was literally point blank range... And hard to run when they now have almost no cool down between attacks. How is it balanced to have 2 attacks per second, and a instant stun with the first attack? Again, TFP don't know how guns and bows work. A cape buffalo or a elephant could withstand that, but not a wolf or mountain lion. I understand they think of the player as the enemy, and want to give their creations every advantage to take the player down, but they need to check their bias and bring a bit of realism into the game.

Not a hunting simulation.  Gameplay > realism in this case.

On 7/3/2020 at 4:52 AM, Demandred1957 said:

No time for a "attack strategy" when you get jumped out of the shadows like the Dire Wolf did me. I don't mind a little buff to them, but really... Do TFP not understand how guns and arrows work??? People hunt mountain lions and Kodiak bears with bows and arrows and kill them with *one* arrow.. Not to even mention how many of the same were killed by single shot black powder rifles back in the day...

 

Plenty of time to plan.  When you spawn in the game you have newbie protection.  Go smack a tree and make spikes before running away from the road into the wilderness where it's hard to see wolves among the grass.  

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)

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13 hours ago, Outlaw_187 said:

What difficulty do you play at? I personally don't like how "bullet spongy" enemies are on the higher difficulties. 

They are zombies, they should go down easy, their advantage should be in numbers. 

I too was attacked by a dire wolf out of nowhere. Was looting a house in burnt forrest & heard something tearing the fu*k out of the house from outside. Suddenly the SOB came around the corner & started mawing my a*s. 

I did survive but he did indeed tear me up. RNG can be a bit*h dude. Like other post said, at least now you are well aware of how much of a pain these things are and you can better prepare. Good luck man!

Just standard difficulty. In later game i step the horde count up, because yeah, they are zombies not bulletproof tanks. Last game of A18 was the day 126 horde. I stepped it up to 64 count and changed the time to 2 hr days. Made for a pretty good video. Glock9 base ftw!

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Always carry a healthy stack of wood frames and a few spears.  You can nerdpole up 2 blocks and place frames faster than anything - including a bear or dire wolf - can destroy them.  Once you have a small enough platform you can get 2 down that have been upgraded and there is nothing in game that can kill you.  Last time I got jumped by a dire on day one this is how I survived and got some early meat out of the deal.  Works like a charm.

 

It is much easier if you are near any structure whatsoever.  Then all you need to do is pole up 3 spaces and you become untouchable.  Bears are usually not worth it early game but I am never unhappy to see any other animal early game.  The meat and bones that early is really nice.

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8 hours ago, Demandred1957 said:

Just standard difficulty. In later game i step the horde count up, because yeah, they are zombies not bulletproof tanks. Last game of A18 was the day 126 horde. I stepped it up to 64 count and changed the time to 2 hr days. Made for a pretty good video. Glock9 base ftw!

Hell yeah!! I love Glock9's videos. His tests & builds are interesting.

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I agree with the original post. I can understand that they do tons of damage, are very quick, attack relentless and make you bleed in half a second, etc. that I can get behind. But why do they also have to damage soakers. In my first encounter I saw one outside the trader I visited right after beginning the game. From safety I started shooting arrows at it, while it try to break through the traders walls. 

I must have shot around 25-30 arrows in its side, when I ran out of arrows, I went outside stabbed it in the face with a lvl 2 spear 3 times before it killed me...

 

Now I understand that these are more endgame animals (that you can encounter completing your first quest) and being lvl 1 means i'm horribly underpowered, but a mountainlion surviving 25 arrows in the side and 3 spear thrusts into its face seems a bit much to me...

 

So keep the speed, the damage, the ferocity, the impact, etc. but make them more supsceptible for damage... If you think there should be tough endgame animals, make a zombie version of the mountainlion. With a zombie I can understand that it takes more to kill it, but a regular mountainlion being unfased by over 25 arrows in its side just doesn't feel realistic/natural. (I know, perhaps a silly thing to hope for in a zombie apocalypse game :)

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A little tip: Just because you see something doesn't mean you have to kill it even with things completely useless against it. Dire wolves and mountain lions will lose interest in a chase with you after a short distance; all you have to do is hold shift and sprint in the opposite direction for a bit. These animals are easy to deal with when you have the right weaponry.

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I gave up on that game, I dies four times, all four times I was killed by mountainlions. I agree that the first time I agroed the lion myself. But the second time I got jumped from behind by one of the mountainlions, the time after that I ran away from a mountainlion just to run into another one and the last kill was by a mountainlion that broke into a house that I was clearing for a quest... 

Apparently that particular block of houses had a infestation of mountainlions, because around every couple of houses, there was a mountainlion roaming about. 

 

I wish the developers would scale the wildlife in the same manner as they do with zombies. The zombies grow tougher and more advanced the more days you play, why can't they do that with the natural predators too? Start out with dingo's, coyotes, foxes, etc. then go to wolves & zombie dogs, then go to bears, dire wolfs and mountainlions and end with zombie version of those last animals. 

That way you don't have to worry running into nearly unbeatable enemies when you are still running around with a wooden club and a bow with 19 stone arrows... Especially since some biotopes are literally crawling with those mobs. 

 

My second game ended with a dire wolf comming at me from nowhere when I was checking my locker. He basically was camping my spawning point, killing me each time I respawned. I managed to lure it away by trying to run as far as I could before he killed me (most of the time he dazed me, broke bones, gave a concussion or let me to bleed with the first hit). 

I don't mind a challege, but trying to dodge, circle and avoid these nearly impossible to beat animals all of the time when you are still lvl 3 is not my idea of a challenge, at that lvl coyotes are already tricky enough.

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4 hours ago, Brabbelbeest said:

I wish the developers would scale the wildlife in the same manner as they do with zombies. The zombies grow tougher and more advanced the more days you play, why can't they do that with the natural predators too?

The way they currently scale the natural predators is by biomes and nighttime.

 

Forest is where you should stay until you have good weapons and armor and the perks to back it up. In the forest during the day, only rabbits and chickens spawn in large amounts. There is a small chance of deer and boars, and a 1% chance of regular wolves. No mountain lions at all. Bears and dire wolves can spawn at night, and may still be hanging around if you go out at 4 am. Be watchful of your surroundings and RUN if you spot one. You don't have to engage with it just because it is there.

 

You still have the possibility of predators that are normal spawns for particular pois, so learn by experience and avoid those pois if you don't feel ready to take them on.

 

You also have the possibility of predators as part of wandering hordes and bloodmoon hordes. For wandering hordes, avoid if you can, or seek high/safe ground and pick them off. For bloodmoon hordes, have a plan in place for them.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Brabbelbeest said:

I gave up on that game, I dies four times, all four times I was killed by mountainlions. I agree that the first time I agroed the lion myself. But the second time I got jumped from behind by one of the mountainlions, the time after that I ran away from a mountainlion just to run into another one and the last kill was by a mountainlion that broke into a house that I was clearing for a quest... 

Apparently that particular block of houses had a infestation of mountainlions, because around every couple of houses, there was a mountainlion roaming about.

This is either a bug or you are in the snow biome. If the former then you need to make sure to fully clean your data and erase old maps. There was a version of A19 experimental with predators everywhere and if you have code remnants from that version floating around in your game it could explain why you are getting these animals everywhere so early.

 

If you actually are just running around in the snow biome during your first week then stop it! If you get a quest that takes you in there then cancel it. The snow biome is meant to be too tough for a primitive gear carrying player. Stick to the Forest during the day and you should not see anything more scary than a regular wolf or a zombie dog.

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I didn´t have any problem with both so far. I just stay away from the snow early game and i have never seen a direwolf during the day in early game. First few nights i dig, sort my inventory and upgrade my base from inside.

 

If you go into the snow early on, you brought this onto yourself. Nothing uncommon to have areas in a game where a low level character shouldn´t go.

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My only real problem with the wildlife in this game is the ridiculous level of their aggressiveness . . .

 

I get it that it is a game, and gameplay generally beats realism . . . but any aggressive, wild animal chewing its way through a wall or a metal door to get to me? A zombie animal I can see behaving in such a manner, but a coyote? A wolf? A snake FFS? Even considering the end of the world/apocalypse scenario, I can't see that happening. Maybe I know too much about animal behavior, both before and after the presence of humans.

 

The specials, like the dire wolf, don't bother me as much because they obviously aren't natural.

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4 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Direwolf actually is natural. Just extinct. @Reckis

Hence, not natural in a post-apocalyptic game set in the slight future. Without some unnatural influence they wouldn't just suddenly spring back into existence.

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I have built my base in the snow biome, day 15 currently. This is the first time that I am not playing in the forest biome at an early stage and I have to say that the snow biome is much much much more difficult. Main reason are dire wolfs, bears and especially mountain lions. However, I would not say that they are too strong. Actually I have died 5 times already to different predators (usually I don't die a single time during a savegame) and I absolutely love the new feeling this biome gives me. Blunderbuss is useless against those animals if they can get you. Arrows are useless as well. You'd need about 20-30 hits to take down a mountain lion and even more for a bear. I have bought a pump shotgun only to defend against those animals and even with that (Q2) I got killed as I could not shoot fast enough before they killed me.

 

Just one solution when being on ground: Open your eyes and avoid any contact. As soon as you have got a bicycle you are at least save while travelling from A to B.

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On 7/2/2020 at 11:30 PM, Demandred1957 said:

Both the Mountain lion and Direwolf have been made too OP. Between pain resistance, skipping attack animations, increased health, and whatever else TFP have done to buff them, there are pretty much unbeatable at early game stages with common weapons. I pelted a mountain lion with 6 arrows, and then power bashed it a couple of times with a club and it still killed me. And just shot a direwolf in the face with a blunderbuss at point blank range, and it killed me in 3 bites.. WTF!!! Nerf please.

 

Early game I just run and avoid them. I don't even try to fight them. It's only the first few levels though.  They are pretty much fodder once you level up your projectile weapons. 

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2 hours ago, PoloPoPo said:

I have built my base in the snow biome, day 15 currently. This is the first time that I am not playing in the forest biome at an early stage and I have to say that the snow biome is much much much more difficult. Main reason are dire wolfs, bears and especially mountain lions. However, I would not say that they are too strong. Actually I have died 5 times already to different predators (usually I don't die a single time during a savegame) and I absolutely love the new feeling this biome gives me. Blunderbuss is useless against those animals if they can get you. Arrows are useless as well. You'd need about 20-30 hits to take down a mountain lion and even more for a bear. I have bought a pump shotgun only to defend against those animals and even with that (Q2) I got killed as I could not shoot fast enough before they killed me.

 

Just one solution when being on ground: Open your eyes and avoid any contact. As soon as you have got a bicycle you are at least save while travelling from A to B.

Aaaaaand just died the sixth time to a predator. Passed a dire wolf, thought I could take some meat with me on my way back home but unfortunately one shot from my Q6 Blunderbuss and seven shots from my Q2 pump shotgun were not enough to take it out :(

 

Not complaining though, I play on difficulty "survivalist" and didn't like the game being too easy.

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18 hours ago, Brabbelbeest said:

I gave up on that game, I dies four times, all four times I was killed by mountainlions. I agree that the first time I agroed the lion myself. But the second time I got jumped from behind by one of the mountainlions, the time after that I ran away from a mountainlion just to run into another one and the last kill was by a mountainlion that broke into a house that I was clearing for a quest... 

Apparently that particular block of houses had a infestation of mountainlions, because around every couple of houses, there was a mountainlion roaming about. 

 

I wish the developers would scale the wildlife in the same manner as they do with zombies. The zombies grow tougher and more advanced the more days you play, why can't they do that with the natural predators too? Start out with dingo's, coyotes, foxes, etc. then go to wolves & zombie dogs, then go to bears, dire wolfs and mountainlions and end with zombie version of those last animals. 

That way you don't have to worry running into nearly unbeatable enemies when you are still running around with a wooden club and a bow with 19 stone arrows... Especially since some biotopes are literally crawling with those mobs. 

 

My second game ended with a dire wolf comming at me from nowhere when I was checking my locker. He basically was camping my spawning point, killing me each time I respawned. I managed to lure it away by trying to run as far as I could before he killed me (most of the time he dazed me, broke bones, gave a concussion or let me to bleed with the first hit). 

I don't mind a challege, but trying to dodge, circle and avoid these nearly impossible to beat animals all of the time when you are still lvl 3 is not my idea of a challenge, at that lvl coyotes are already tricky enough.

Pro tip - stay out of the snow biome at lvl 3..... no more problems with mountain lions.

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Been thinking about this for a few days, and I have to disagree with OP, and agree with the choice of having enemies you cannot and should not face right away.
My reasoning is simple. If not for mountain lions and dire wolves, all we would have left to fear are bears/zombie bears... and that's just not very fun.
 
I wish the other biomes had even more of a weather hazard, to really hit home that we need to be prepared before even stepping foot into these places. Likewise, there needs to be more of a reason to do so when the time comes. Gamestage increase will help a little, but at the same time, not really because a player could just avoid those biomes. I'm hoping legendary items are tied to biomes somehow. Nobody should be finding these in the forest. For as much as TFP has played with gating the player progression behind things, here's the one type of gating that would actually have some meaning and some fun factor. I would love to see some specialty craftables that require a piece from each biome.

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8 hours ago, Reckis said:

Hence, not natural in a post-apocalyptic game set in the slight future. Without some unnatural influence they wouldn't just suddenly spring back into existence.

Actually, there are a number of groups out there trying to clone or recreate a number of extinct creatures. Just think of them as some groups project that they let loose once they realized that they were going to turn and didn't want them to starve.

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13 hours ago, LionsDen said:

Actually, there are a number of groups out there trying to clone or recreate a number of extinct creatures. Just think of them as some groups project that they let loose once they realized that they were going to turn and didn't want them to starve.

Still, not natural. Who's to say those cloning them didn't screw something up during the process. Wild predators do not chew holes thru walls in an attempt to get at prey.

 

Like I said, I realize this is a game and it can be rationalized whatever way you choose. It is just one of my pet peeves.

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Well your argument was that any wild animal trying to chew trough a wall is weird. A dire wolf was a wild animal. Wouldn´t behave different than those that are not extinct.

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as noted on steam's page

"in this continually evolving title currently in alpha stage development"

anything can happen and it hints that everything poses a threat.

bandicam 2020-09-01 09-07-06-653.jpg

Edited by unholyjoe (see edit history)
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...in the meantime, our server is trying to make most enemies and animals tougher with a wider variety so we can suffer and die more.

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Here's a good strategy for killing them without much danger, at least if you see them first. Place a wood frame on the ground and upgrade it twice. Then jump-place another on top of that and upgrade that twice too. Then you're standing on top of a two high platform. Agro the animal and then kill it at your leisure.

 

If you're jumped and have no guns to mow it down with quickly then look for a building to nerd pole up the side of. Jumping on the roof of a car can almost sometimes make them attack the side/trunk of it.... although sometimes they will run up the hood and you need to kill it before they make it explode so that should only be a very last resort. They also don't jump very well so you can sometimes use a picket fence to jump back and forth over which generally gives you enough time to reload a blunderbus while the animal tries to figure out how to get over it.

Edited by uselessjunkaccount (see edit history)

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