Version 1.0 (Alpha 22) Dev Diary

[pApA^LeGBa]

20 hours ago, meganoth said:

Guys, it is not about the change itself, @pApA^LeGBas concern is about whether TFP is keeping quiet on a major reason for the change. 

 

My feeling is that IF that is the case (because of NDA or simply because they did this just on suspicion it would look better to Sony/Microsoft), then it would be a rather harmless omission (comparable to not telling your grandmother that you go on a adventure cruise). I don't expect them to tell us everything. At least since I have been on this forum they never told us everything, especially about their bussiness dealings.

 

 

There is a big difference between not telling us everything, wich is absolutly understandable, and giving out fake reasons. Customers these days are a mess. On one hand you have those who simply seem to absolutly hate the product and somehow still can´t simply ignore it, on the other you have people nearly praising the devs for everything they do. Sure there is a in between, but those 2 groups get larger every day it seems.

 

Since when is it weird to question it when a company makes up reasons and arguments? Ask yourself if you would want to deal with a person that acts that way?

 

Also i am not a fan of going 1.0 now. It means either that TFP will break save games, wich is a no go if you aren´t in early access, or the updates to come will only be minor. Both is nothing i want.

Edited April 29 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

What?

 

@faatal Well, that discussion in kinda pointless. But more importnant, how will updates work? I mean you surely won´t break saves anymore now when leaving early access. That would be an absolute no go. Wich means RWG is completly done, with 1.0 i assume?

 

No, Fataal answered this already. Since savegames and world files have version information you can convert older versions to a new format at the start of the game. if necessary. This is just some programming effort, the deeper the changes the longer it takes to program.

 

The Factorio developers for example have done this since ages ago. You practically can start an old savegame from years ago and it will just run the savegame through ALL individual change routines until the save reaches the current version.

 

 

 

Edited April 29 by meganoth (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

So we had to do new saves for years now because TFP didn´t feel like implementing this earlier during development?

[BFT2020]

21 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

So we had to do new saves for years now because TFP didn´t feel like implementing this earlier during development?

Or more likely, they had higher priorities that the developers were already working on and this wasn’t high enough to devote the time and work on yet.

 

another possibility is that the game wasn’t developed far enough yet to implement it.

 

There are more than one reason why a feature is not released right away.

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

So we had to do new saves for years now because TFP didn´t feel like implementing this earlier during development?

 

I am sure one of the reasons they stayed in EA this long was the freedom to change anything without worrying about compatibility to older saves.

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

No, Fataal answered this already. Since savegames and world files have version information you can convert older versions to a new format at the start of the game. if necessary. This is just some programming effort, the deeper the changes the longer it takes to program.

 

The Factorio developers for example have done this since ages ago. You practically can start an old savegame from years ago and it will just run the savegame through ALL individual change routines until the save reaches the current version.

Slight correction... faatal said that they'll try to prevent a broken save between versions but that changes might not make that possible.  At least, unless I misunderstand what he said about it.

 

Question: Before 1.0 is released, will someone go through the POI XML and remove all the unused stuff?  Things like AllowedTownships and Zoning and stuff like that?  Having stuff from old versions that's no longer used just makes the XML more confusing for anyone trying to make their own POI and thinking that some parameter will do something when it doesn't.  I know it's a minor thing but it would be nice.

[Annihilatorza]

@faatal With the New AO system coming along with the other changes will this be similar to how other games do it by only rendering what is in your direct line of sight? 

 

I have long thought that the biggest performance issue with 7D2D is that everything can be interacted with and destroyed and also seen at the same time, but if you don't need to render what is outside the player's camera view it would help gain some FPS but I don't know if that is even feasible due to how 7D2D works.

 

If I am looting a building across the street with the Opague glass block me seeing into the building next door how fine is the separation?

 

With the Opaque glass and the AO system, I am really excited to see how much is going to change the performance uplift. 

[meganoth]

37 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Slight correction... faatal said that they'll try to prevent a broken save between versions but that changes might not make that possible.  At least, unless I misunderstand what he said about it.

 

The second sentence was not really Fataals answer but my explanation. And actually I can't imagine a change that would be impossible to convert if you allow latitude to the conversion (for example changes in the perks might mean the character starts unperked again but with the perk points of his level, changes in RWG might mean some POIs vanishing or some blocks getting replaced ...). Eventually with too many changes a conversion routine would just be too time consuming, expensive, uneconomical, but not impossible.

 

Edited April 29 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Gamida]

13 hours ago, Guppycur said:

Y'all aren't considering moving more XMLs to that weird csv format entitygroups is now in that makes it more difficult to xpath, are ya?

 

...please say no, even if it's really a yes... 

 

8 hours ago, khzmusik said:

 

Thank goodness. I'm sure there were good internal reasons for that change, but from a modding/XPath perspective, that format is abominable.

 

lol don't be relieved yet khzmusik. Guppy did give him the ok to lie if answer was yes

Edited April 29 by Gamida (see edit history)

[Adam the Waster]

Can we get some news!!! We thirsty 

[faatal]

7 hours ago, Annihilatorza said:

@faatal With the New AO system coming along with the other changes will this be similar to how other games do it by only rendering what is in your direct line of sight? 

 

I have long thought that the biggest performance issue with 7D2D is that everything can be interacted with and destroyed and also seen at the same time, but if you don't need to render what is outside the player's camera view it would help gain some FPS but I don't know if that is even feasible due to how 7D2D works.

 

If I am looting a building across the street with the Opague glass block me seeing into the building next door how fine is the separation?

 

With the Opaque glass and the AO system, I am really excited to see how much is going to change the performance uplift. 

Opaque windows give a mild performance boost as it hides what is behind, which allows the occlusion manager to not render some of what is behind. Chunks layers are 16x16x16m and occluded as a whole, so depending on where the window lies in chunk space, it will still be drawing closer things behind the window as they are in the same chunk with the window.

 

AO is not a performance boost. It it a shadowing technique that darkens ambient light in angles/corners to mimic how they tend to look.

8 hours ago, Riamus said:

Slight correction... faatal said that they'll try to prevent a broken save between versions but that changes might not make that possible.  At least, unless I misunderstand what he said about it.

 

Question: Before 1.0 is released, will someone go through the POI XML and remove all the unused stuff?  Things like AllowedTownships and Zoning and stuff like that?  Having stuff from old versions that's no longer used just makes the XML more confusing for anyone trying to make their own POI and thinking that some parameter will do something when it doesn't.  I know it's a minor thing but it would be nice.

Yes. We will try.

 

We are regularly cleaning things up, but it takes time and time is short. Sometimes we don't even know if something is used because the original programmer may no longer be around, so then you have to track the data use.

[Roland]

12 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

So we had to do new saves for years now because TFP didn´t feel like implementing this earlier during development?

 

No. We had to do it because it was alpha.

 

(Only got a few weeks left to use that...)

 

[Doomofman]

Hoping we get a bit more news about what's happening with 1.0 exp soon. Sale is over now so would be nice to get an idea of what's coming and how, seeing as it appears it wont be the usual build up we've had for the last few alphas

[Gamida]

Was just checking out some 7 Days stuff on steam and figured it is about time for an update on some of the specs. I had windows 7 on this comp for many years and resisted updating to 10 as my lazy butt didn't want to have to go through loading all my crap on again. Well steam made the decision for me when it said Windows 7 would no longer be supported which I took to mean my games wouldn't work so I had no choice.

Sort of glad as my game runs smoother and no longer eats up my full amount of ram I have. (yes, I know win 10 is on it's last leg also but figure I have a while before I have to do anything about that)

The thing is 7 days and even the blood moons says the minimum and the recommended spec is Windows 7.

Just a thought

[DanLW]

Is a new trailer in the works?  The live action one is cool and all but it isn't in engine.

 

Maybe when 1.0exp drops run a community contest for an official trailer?

[Morloc]

On 4/28/2024 at 3:50 PM, faatal said:

Even the greatest game in the world (whatever that is), will have 2% negative reviews.

 

Rimworld. (It does have 98% the last time I looked, and that's with nearly as many reviews as Skyrim over a decade). 😘

 

7D2D will always be special though. (I don't have a Rimworld T-shirt after-all!). At nearly 7500 hrs, 7D2D is my 2nd most played game. I think. 'Cause there was pre-Steam.


-Arch Necromacner Morloc 💀

[Laran Mithras]

5 hours ago, Gamida said:

Was just checking out some 7 Days stuff on steam and figured it is about time for an update on some of the specs. I had windows 7 on this comp for many years and resisted updating to 10 as my lazy butt didn't want to have to go through loading all my crap on again. Well steam made the decision for me when it said Windows 7 would no longer be supported which I took to mean my games wouldn't work so I had no choice.

 

The thing is 7 days and even the blood moons says the minimum and the recommended spec is Windows 7.

 

Nothing has changed, really. Games made for 7 will still run. I griped like an old man at Steam over this issue and was told it wasn't in their control and games made for 7 or 8 would likely still run.

 

The issue is the Steam platform uses Google framework and Google is blocking any further 7 or 8 usage.

7DTD would still run, assuredly. Now, to avoid more intrusive Microsoft versions, might have to look to Linux. From what I hear, 7DTD runs on Linux.

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Laran Mithras said:

Nothing has changed, really. Games made for 7 will still run. I griped like an old man at Steam over this issue and was told it wasn't in their control and games made for 7 or 8 would likely still run.

 

The issue is the Steam platform uses Google framework and Google is blocking any further 7 or 8 usage.

7DTD would still run, assuredly. Now, to avoid more intrusive Microsoft versions, might have to look to Linux. From what I hear, 7DTD runs on Linux.

 

Most games run quite well on linux nowadays, a few natively, likely 7daystodie, and almost everything else on proton.

 

[doughphunghus]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Most games run quite well on linux nowadays, a few natively, likely 7daystodie, and almost everything else on proton.

 

Linux user: yep, 7 days runs very nicely on linux. Thanks TFP! (For not flagging/building/supporting/whatever "windows only" in Steam)

 

The only issues i have had (via steam)seem to be older windows only games (think 15+ years old doom like run and shoot) that i get super cheap on HumbleBundle or Steam. Everything that has "Steam says Linux ok" has worked, and quite a lot of "steam says windows only" works too.

 

For 7 days: the only issues i have run into are mod related and its fairly rare. Im running an 8? Year old PC with a single slot nvidia GT 1030, 16 gb ram, SSD drive, and intel i5-6600 and its fairly smooth playing on low graphics settings, except custom "big city maps" so i always appreciate any "pre gold game optimization" improvements.

Edited May 1 by doughphunghus (see edit history)

[faatal]

9 hours ago, DanLW said:

Is a new trailer in the works?  The live action one is cool and all but it isn't in engine.

 

Maybe when 1.0exp drops run a community contest for an official trailer?

Many things are in the works. 😁

[Roland]

1 hour ago, faatal said:

Many things are in the works. 😁

 

That's why you get so many screamers. That heat map is boiling!!!

[XCOUNTRY]

I think it’d be cool that instead of that note in your inventory when you start a new game you just have a black screen or the really darkened “hurt” screen and the sound of someone beating you up saying the “next time you pay on time” line, fade to black and then waking up to a white river denizen stopping to help and do the intro tutorial before being mortally wounded by a zombie they manage to kill, they’re last words directing you to the nearest trader. 

[Adam the Waster]

New Demolisher skin 

 

HE LOOKS SO MUCH BETTER than that discount biker dude

[Laz Man]

1 hour ago, Adam the Waster said:

New Demolisher skin 

 

HE LOOKS SO MUCH BETTER than that discount biker dude

 

Old model wasn't horrible but always reminded me like the B team guys from the expendable movies... 😃

 

The new look will pair better with the solider.

[Mumpfy]

that looks good.