Version 1.0 (Alpha 22) Dev Diary

[faatal]

On 4/20/2024 at 2:54 PM, Code6 said:

Does the impending release of 1.0 this mean that TFP has worked out the optimization challenges?
I love this game, but performance has always been something that we excused as being something that would be addressed when it was time to leave alpha.

We do optimizations regularly, but that does not mean any of those optimizations will improve whatever feature or situation you are thinking about.

 

For example, I have some optimizations in the works for larger explosions that effect many blocks to stop them briefly using hundreds of megabytes, which can actually crash the game on consoles. This also improves FPS for the fraction of a second the explosion is initially happening, but otherwise that is not helping FPS.

 

Another example, RWG has a new building density limit calculation to keep complex buildings away from each other. This should help FPS in some cases, but depends on many factors.

 

Optimizations will continue, as that is one of my favorite things to do, but many of them will be small gains, in specific situations.

[Shi-an]

My biggest surprise with the 1.0 announcement, is that the devs seem to be happy with the magazine system and don't seem to plan to update it.

 

A21 has been around long enough for most players to realise the majority of magazines are useless, and if they just rapid-fire quests they'll get most tools and weapons without relying on magazines. If you want to force yourself to use magazines it's a grindy RNG-fest, especially if you dilute the magazine loot table by speccing into multiple perks attached to magazines.

 

Various people have made various suggestions on how to improve this, but apart from the scheduled trader rework in Q4 2025 (which won't change the core issues of magazines), it looks like magazines in their current state are here to stay? Seems a little strange to me.

[zztong]

11 hours ago, Roland said:

No word yet on that. We need to let the arguing about the roadmap settle a bit before we start the argument over streamer weekend…heheh. 

 

I can start up on water again if you think it will buy you some time...?

 

Related to the announcement, I am a bit surprised Steam Workshop integration comes so late in the plan. Admittedly I'm probably one of the few who look forward to this feature compared to other features. Honestly, I don't mind waiting, though I wonder if the game might be "played out" in the minds of folks before mods get that integration. I guess it really depends on how the game is supported after 2025 and, of course, folks can still apply mods like they do today.

Edited April 22 by zztong (see edit history)

[zztong]

 

2 hours ago, faatal said:

Another example, RWG has a new building density limit calculation to keep complex buildings away from each other.

 

As a Tile and POI designer, can you provide any insight on what goes into this? Is it a matter of verts/tris above a certain threshold? Does it related to POIs on a single Tile or within a certain distance from each other?

 

For instance, I've been trying to keep POIs below 3.5M vertices since that's what the TFP skyscraper_01 has been. There's a newer TFP POI that's "heavier" than that, IIRC. I've had a custom downtown Tile that had poor performance and have since thinned it out. Your comment has me wondering what indicators of potential performance issues and/or guidance to designers you might pass along?

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Shi-an said:

My biggest surprise with the 1.0 announcement, is that the devs seem to be happy with the magazine system and don't seem to plan to update it.

 

A21 has been around long enough for most players to realise the majority of magazines are useless, and if they just rapid-fire quests they'll get most tools and weapons without relying on magazines. If you want to force yourself to use magazines it's a grindy RNG-fest, especially if you dilute the magazine loot table by speccing into multiple perks attached to magazines.

 

Various people have made various suggestions on how to improve this, but apart from the scheduled trader rework in Q4 2025 (which won't change the core issues of magazines), it looks like magazines in their current state are here to stay? Seems a little strange to me.

 

Be careful not to fall into the trap of judging 1.0 by A21. Any adjustments and balancing changes to current (A21) systems have been held to be released in the next big update which will be 1.0 and we haven't seen them yet. Ultimately, A21 will be a dead-end build on the steam beta list that anyone who dislikes 1.0 will go back to and play...heheh. It is not representative of 1.0. Once the experimental build for 1.0 is released you can make your own judgements but the dev team has definitely made adjustments based on customer feedback over the past year. That's not to say that if you hate the magazine system you will suddenly love it and you are correct that it is here to stay.

[FranticDan]

3 hours ago, faatal said:

It is not as simple as that. In tweaking rwgmixer.xml wilderness counts, I found there is a max count at which it stops successfully finding locations for for prefabs. Don't yet know what the limiting factor is. On a 10k I can get over 600 to spawn, so the Wilderness Many setting for that is now 750, up from 400. Many is now 450 on 8k. Reducing mountains also helps as that does limit some prefab locations.

Oh bummer! I noticed this limiting factor in A21 when I increased wilderness spawns too 800 (high) for a medium map, and I'd guess only half spawned. Looking at the map preview, they appear to be spread out about 400m apart from each other. Hopefully the limiting factor can be found, it would be huge to have a distance apart slider!

[n2n1]

Oh, how i miss Joel .... he is a master at setting fire to ass on this forum 

[Outlaw_187]

So is water still being worked on? Last I read/heard, it was being changed to more of a flow system and not occupying a block space or whatever the system of it is now. 

[Immhotep]

Brilliant news.  Was hoping for a storyline for when it goes gold to get newbies interested but that seems to be later down line. 

 

New pois and armour looks great. 

[Laran Mithras]

I fully support any game that goes paid DLC for cosmetic content: zero impact on gameplay.

I see a few in here complaining like it will totally ruin 7DTD and I just don't see it.

 

I would gladly shell out $$$ for some good cosmetics.

 

Non-cosmetic DLC is fine, too, as long as it isn't completing features that were originally promised in the base game. Seeing DLC mentioned is a positive development to me.

[DaVegaNL]

The roadmap states the release of 3 major updates in the timespan of 1,5 years.

This is the time they usually spend on a single update (whether that's a major one is up for debate).

 

So, forgive me for being a teeny-tiny bit skeptical.

 

Also; cosmetic DLC's? Yaiks.

[beerfly]

This^

 

We are not only seeing the game getting to its gold version, but we are assured that we will get even more after that.

 

p.s. This is about Laran`s post, not DaVega`s

4 minutes ago, DaVegaNL said:

Also; cosmetic DLC's? Yaiks.

Yup, Steam Workshop would be full of stuff, but let the designers have something of their own after gold.

Many games have this sort of DLC. If you don`t want it, don`t buy it. 

Edited April 22 by beerfly (see edit history)

[DaVegaNL]

Well.. Yeah. Many games have cosmetic DLC's. That's pretty common, and indeed, if you don't want them, don't buy them.

 

What is not common is for those games to be rushed out of Alpha, make some vague statements about Alpha game-features to come, and start selling those cosmetic DLC's off the bat.

Which would be bad enough on it's own, but when that's coupled with a doubling of the price of the game? That smells like trouble. Or teen-spirit!

[beerfly]

Making them announce 1.0 might be for a corporate reasons, consoles have finished products sold with dlc released after that further in time.

 

Having an early access version of this kind of game could bring uncertainties in console game community, or could be forbidden by rules. I think it is sort of a solution of what we have as situation here by renaming EA, Alpha to 1.0.

 

For me it is just words changing, not the further development of the game or the experience that we will have in 7 days to die

Edited April 22 by beerfly
sorry for the smell, it is raining outside and I was with my systers great dane dog out in the forest, survived another one out with him... (see edit history)

[DaVegaNL]

1 hour ago, beerfly said:

Making them announce 1.0 might be for a corporate reasons, consoles have finished products sold with dlc released after that further in time.

 

Having an early access version of this kind of game could bring uncertainties in console game community, or could be forbidden by rules. I think it is sort of a solution of what we have as situation here by renaming EA, Alpha to 1.0.

 

For me it is just words changing, not the further development of the game or the experience that we will have in 7 days to die

Nah don't worry mate! I like the smell of wet dog! Better than diapers to be honest..

[Laz Man]

15 hours ago, mstdv inc said:

There is one topic that bothers me. Attracting and retaining new players.

This concerns how the game is being talked about on the Internet.
Most often in the tops and articles, the game is referred to as "survival in the open world in a zombie apocalypse with horror elements."

Sometimes it is called "voxel-based".

Do you know what "voxel-based" means to ordinary people? It doesn't mean anything. An incomprehensible set of words. And they are not interested in finding out what it is, they are unlikely to go Googling. Yes, that's not necessary.
They want to buy a game and play it.

And the "voxel game" is the main reason why it is incorrect to compare it with ordinary AA, AAA, AAAAAAAAAA-class games.
But people don't know this and compare instead of trying to play on their own. They rate the game based on articles and tops that miss one of the most important features of the game.

There are very few official materials on the game. Screenshots and videos for the press.
Game reviews often use old screenshots or videos.
Personally, I learned about this game in 2018 from a YouTube video with a review of the games. I was shown the gameplay from the old alpha version, and I just scrolled through it.
Right now, open Google images and write "7 Days To Die". You will see a couple of new covers and screenshots, and then only the old alpha versions.
I was so surprised when I first launched the game in 2020. It was completely different from what I saw on the video. It was much better.

I think it is important in the video about the release of version 1.0 to focus on this and show clearly what can be done in this game, but cannot be done in 99% of other games.

I do not know who wrote the text that Rick voiced in the Alpha Exodus video, but this text is addressed to people familiar with the game.
To attract new players, it is necessary to show everything that this game can surprise and delay, without using definitions that are difficult for ordinary people like "voxel-based".

Show how you build a beautiful building, and then destroy it, show that you have a huge city in which you can enter every building.

The video that will be released for the 1.0 release is very important to attract a new audience.
 

I also really hope that you will pay attention to the training quests.
Journal entries are evil. Nobody reads them.
Show the basics of the game in the form of short videos. Tell us about the tools and their levels from simple to steel, weapons, survival and base construction.
Biomes, loot, progress, and more.

Here's the right way to beat the grass. Here's the right way to defeat zombies. It can be cured, and it can relieve a headache, it can cure an infection.
That's how to build, and that's how to modernize. With this, it is better to extract wood, and with this, stone and iron.
You can barricade yourself in a ready-made building or build your own base.
And so on and so forth. 
You shouldn't expect people to figure things out on their own or turn to google. 
They will close the game and make a refund.

 

 

We have a couple of new things shipping with A22 / 1.0  that should help in this area. 

[Ricowan]

2 hours ago, DaVegaNL said:

What is not common is for those games to be rushed out of Alpha, make some vague statements about Alpha game-features to come, and start selling those cosmetic DLC's off the bat.

 

Just curious, but where does it say TFP would be selling the outfit DLCs?  I'm not saying they will or will not, I'm asking where the information was posted that they WILL be paid DLC.

 

[stallionsden]

20 minutes ago, Ricowan said:

 

Just curious, but where does it say TFP would be selling the outfit DLCs?  I'm not saying they will or will not, I'm asking where the information was posted that they WILL be paid DLC.

 

Didn't see it anywhere meself. 

 

I know way back in like a10 or 12 or something 3 dlcs were planned. Didn't say they were ginna cost back then either but honestly 

 

The game pays you in the end.  

 

This game cost me  - $35 ÷ 16687 hrs = $0.0020974411 an hr

Edited April 22 by stallionsden (see edit history)

[Chaton Noir]

14 hours ago, faatal said:

We do optimizations regularly, but that does not mean any of those optimizations will improve whatever feature or situation you are thinking about.

 

For example, I have some optimizations in the works for larger explosions that effect many blocks to stop them briefly using hundreds of megabytes, which can actually crash the game on consoles. This also improves FPS for the fraction of a second the explosion is initially happening, but otherwise that is not helping FPS.

 

Another example, RWG has a new building density limit calculation to keep complex buildings away from each other. This should help FPS in some cases, but depends on many factors.

 

Optimizations will continue, as that is one of my favorite things to do, but many of them will be small gains, in specific situations.

I understand that multithreading is not worth waiting for? I understand that this is a huge job, but without it, the game is unlikely to ever work well. Of course, the game with multithreading will remain difficult for computers, because this is not some kind of miracle. But still, without this, we are unlikely to ever see normal performance in cities or with a large number of zombies.

By the way, could you tell us a little more about the work and the difficulties that need to be overcome to implement multithreading? Even if it never will be. It's just that in the view of many players, this simply requires changing a couple of lines of code that "lazy developers" can't get to in any way. Although this is not the case, because in that case you would have done it a long time ago. The same applies to bandits — few people realize that this is a very large amount of work, especially for a small team. Thank you for putting up with us)

Edited April 22 by Chaton Noir (see edit history)

[Adam the Waster]

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

 

We have a couple of new things shipping with A22 / 1.0  that should help in this area. 

In terms of what books?

 

Tutorial

 

Or the other stuff. 

[Mister Forgash]

4 hours ago, DaVegaNL said:

Well.. Yeah. Many games have cosmetic DLC's. That's pretty common, and indeed, if you don't want them, don't buy them.

 

What is not common is for those games to be rushed out of Alpha, make some vague statements about Alpha game-features to come, and start selling those cosmetic DLC's off the bat.

Have we been watching the same games getting released? These last few years in particular.
I know I'm leading with the low-hanging fruit here, but there was this lil old game called Diablo 4 that dropped.. not all that long ago. Made by some real famous place- I trust they threw more money and people at it than it needed. It released hilariously unfinished.

I dare say the market is knee-deep with games that are rushed out of alpha [I didn't play it, but I think Starfield? (one of those space games) was another one] And granted I think it's dumb when games release and it's slapping-your-face-obvious that it needed another half-year to cook. I give TFP a partial excuse on this one because the way everything lines up, It's very believable the "1.0" tag is there just to get the console version shipping. We don't know how much time and money and good faith is tied up in that deal, and just getting it out there might be worth more than the drama of a launch that misses the mark. 

Maybe the information was vague because since the announcement was only a few days ago and it was only few-minutes video and a split screen to give us a peek

From about the time Civ4 launched, I've seen day1 DLCs almost normalize. I don't like it as a practice. Particularly when it's game elements [Like factions, maps, items ,etc] that they had ready for release, but put behind another pay wall. Cosmetics are a different story though. [ULTRA Joel skin!?] - Anyhow, the situation changes farther when you put some time between release date and the first DLC drop. I certainly wouldn't call DLC 6 months later as 'Off the bat' .. I just think it's too early to be mad about it- but there's a certain nuance to DLC, i'll know it when I see it, and if it's like '$10 to make your game feel complete' I'll grab my pitchfork then.

Edited April 22 by Mister Forgash (see edit history)

[fragtzack]

I would be fine with any DLC, cosmetic or new content. 

 

7D2D has provided almost 4000 hours of entertainment to me for only $14. (Alpha 15 release) I see no reason not to give TFP more $ for such entertainment value. In fact, I also bought a tshirt and coffee cup already. 

 

A fan.

 

 

Edited April 22 by fragtzack (see edit history)

[SnowDog1942]

For years its been.

Omg when is 1.0 coming!! WTF Pimps!!

 

Now its. 

Omg 1.0 is coming!! WTF Pimps!!

[Laran Mithras]

9 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

For years its been.

Omg when is 1.0 coming!! WTF Pimps!!

 

Now its. 

Omg 1.0 is coming!! WTF Pimps!!

I believe many seek validation by being contrarians - even if it means hopping over their sacred fence.

 

7 DTD 1.0 doesn't hurt anyone, though the lamentations sound terrifying. Queue up the Doom Prognosticators next...

[DaVegaNL]

4 hours ago, Ricowan said:

 

Just curious, but where does it say TFP would be selling the outfit DLCs?  I'm not saying they will or will not, I'm asking where the information was posted that they WILL be paid DLC.

 

As far as I know on the roadmap under the section with the 2nd update.

 

If they're not selling the DLC.. Then it would just be an update. Why would they call it a DLC?