Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[Jost Amman]

On 3/1/2023 at 3:42 AM, Cr0wst0rm said:

Not everyone is like you, we want to see new things in the game. The guy has a valid point. The lack of interest of devs (or management) was clear from the beggining of this alpha and the "sound" post is just another clear indication.

That is only "clear" for you, maybe.

What I see, is a team that's working behind closed doors, and some entitled customers who feel butthurt because they have no access to the "behind the scenes".

 

On 3/1/2023 at 3:42 AM, Cr0wst0rm said:

Only decent change coming this alpha is the water logic. The building team has done awesome job with level design, but with constantly changing perk systems, constantly changing spawn chances for items, balancing etc, we will get nowhere... These are the kinds of things you do after releasing the CORE GAMEPLAY features.

Game development is not about showcasing some half assed Substance Painter cars, which do not even have interiors to begin with..... They could've just taken some assets from unity asset store and retexture them. It would turn out better if not for the best with interiors present.

Noted. I'm sure your own startup dev studio will be much more successful than TFP... good luck.

 

On 3/1/2023 at 3:42 AM, Cr0wst0rm said:

You are DEAD WRONG. Since shader model 3, you can do GPU instancing, which basically allows you to draw milions if not billions of same looking objects with many color variations. It is a HARDWARE specification of all current modern GPU's, therefore it runs FAST. The game could have streets polluted with hundreds of cars (with interiors) with no performance cost whatsoever! I keep @%$#ing about this, because I know I have a valid point. And the guy has too. Otherwise we would not talk of it at ALL!

Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, they have a good reason not to use that?

I mean, if you're such a genius I'd gladly see you as part of the 7D2D team, they need all the help they can get after all.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Crater Creator
quote was edited (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

28 minutes ago, Neminsis said:

You could ask the same question of me since I haven't played the game for a year besides a couple instances of helping someone create content for their channel, but perhaps my answer might offer another perspective on what @IzPrebuilt was saying and why.

I've got about 10,000 hours combined play time in this game since console. With the last couple thousand focused on helping produce content for a small YouTube channel. That last couple thousand was the closest I've ever come to actually hating this game. Every single day was a struggle to come up something new to make the game seem interesting to watch. There's the different play through scenarios, mods, tips and tricks, tutorials, different game mechanics, and base building videos, and the best performing videos were always the news about the upcoming alpha and the first playthrough of that alpha. You see, that peak players is also peak viewers, and for guys like @IzPrebuilt that literally built their channel on an upcoming alpha it's harder to justify the hours spent without that peak pending, YouTube certainly doesn't pay enough when you're a niche creator. 

I've also encouraged my partner to shift away from 7days and not just to broaden the appeal of the channel but because the game runs out of viable content too quickly. The tutorials, tips and tricks, all of the above are only one shot per alpha and if you're doing even 2 videos a week you're going to be running on fumes 6 months into the year and milking it until the next alpha comes out and you get to do them all over again. This is both why we hang around the forum waiting for any news and why dropping a short video of a guy making sounds for the minibike can seem insulting and drive the crankier among us a little closer to the edge. We can't even do anything with that. 

Now me, I'm bored to death of 7days as it is, I've earned that boredom over long hours of dedication to it, but except for the vile suggestion that I take up modding, there isn't anything left in the game for me until the next alpha comes out and it just can't come out soon enough.

Now let's all get back to arguing about jars and learn by looting because that's never boring 🙄

I think the issue is clear... have you really bet all your "ScrewTube livelihood" on ONE game that's still in development? 

I mean, it's great for the 7D2D community that there's people like you, but you need to also think about the wider picture here, if you don't mind me saying.

 

Also, you may want to consider that these last few years of development for 7D2D, will all be kind of like the last months: the devs are evidently clenching their butts for the final sprint and have less time for sharing and PR. That maybe a mistake on their part, but it is what it is. IMO, they're doing the right thing here: would you rather have a worse meal because the cook has been praising all the time the things he's doing while cooking, or would you rather wait impatiently for dinner but later have a great meal because the cook was completely focused on cooking?

Edited March 1, 2023 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[Cr0wst0rm]

31 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

That is only "clear" for you, maybe.

What I see, is a team that's working behind closed doors, and some entitled customers who feel butthurt because they have no access to the "behind the scenes".

 Even a 5 member studio is capable of showing more "behind the scenes", this is more like behind of nothing. Clearly you should get your eyesight checked...
 

31 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Noted. I'm sure your own startup dev studio will be much more successful than TFP... good luck.

No clue what is your assumption based on. But ok  Not like it would make your passive-agressively targeted comments matter for me way more...

  

31 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, they have a good reason not to use that?

I mean, if you're such a genius I'd gladly see you as part of the 7D2D team, they need all the help they can get after all.

Let me check:
I have a pretty clear idea what a modern RHI is, you dont. (1:0 for me)
They have never said or explained why there are no interiors (2:0 for me)
Some cars DO have interiors, which clearly shows that it is possible (3:0 for me)

Anything else you might want to add?

[Aldranon]

As most people didn't have a gun held to their head and forced to buy 7D2D AND keep it on its current release (except for me of course).

I find it a human thing to resort to... what do we call it?  "Cage shaking"?  To vent out some of what we had hoped for not come to pass and have people know we are not happy.

 

I'm ok with that, free psychotherapy is a double bonus you might say.   

 

[SnowDog1942]

2 hours ago, Neminsis said:

You could ask the same question of me since I haven't played the game for a year besides a couple instances of helping someone create content for their channel, but perhaps my answer might offer another perspective on what @IzPrebuilt was saying and why.

I've got about 10,000 hours combined play time in this game since console. With the last couple thousand focused on helping produce content for a small YouTube channel. That last couple thousand was the closest I've ever come to actually hating this game. Every single day was a struggle to come up something new to make the game seem interesting to watch. There's the different play through scenarios, mods, tips and tricks, tutorials, different game mechanics, and base building videos, and the best performing videos were always the news about the upcoming alpha and the first playthrough of that alpha. You see, that peak players is also peak viewers, and for guys like @IzPrebuilt that literally built their channel on an upcoming alpha it's harder to justify the hours spent without that peak pending, YouTube certainly doesn't pay enough when you're a niche creator. 

I've also encouraged my partner to shift away from 7days and not just to broaden the appeal of the channel but because the game runs out of viable content too quickly. The tutorials, tips and tricks, all of the above are only one shot per alpha and if you're doing even 2 videos a week you're going to be running on fumes 6 months into the year and milking it until the next alpha comes out and you get to do them all over again. This is both why we hang around the forum waiting for any news and why dropping a short video of a guy making sounds for the minibike can seem insulting and drive the crankier among us a little closer to the edge. We can't even do anything with that. 

Now me, I'm bored to death of 7days as it is, I've earned that boredom over long hours of dedication to it, but except for the vile suggestion that I take up modding, there isn't anything left in the game for me until the next alpha comes out and it just can't come out soon enough.

Now let's all get back to arguing about jars and learn by looting because that's never boring 🙄

Ive played this game for 10,000 hours over 10 years and im bored now.  WTF devs!!!!

[Fanatical_Meat]

55 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Ive played this game for 10,000 hours over 10 years and im bored now.  WTF devs!!!!

Haha 

 

 

[Trankitas]

Yo chill guys  Some of us are f'ing tilted for the long wait and some changes you cannot test yet, but it's okay, it's just a game.

Calm down, breath in and breath out, life is good.

 

Spoiler

Btw if you do not  Right now I will lose my f'ing mind and I will start a hunger strike with my buddies and you're gonna regret it when you see the news and the headline says "A group of friends died in the wait of 7 days to die A21 our prayers are with them"

 

[Neminsis]

3 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

think the issue is clear... have you really bet all your "ScrewTube livelihood" on ONE game that's still in development?

Yes, that's exactly what an awful lot of people have done and what compounds this is that the 7days viewers just don't much care for anything but 7days content so it's hard to transition to other content. It's not so much a fault of creators as it is the very singular focus of the community. The creators started with the game for the same reasons any other player would, it's a good game with exceptional replayability, and that's what makes it a good source of content. It's just not enough to carry you through an entire year on its own. When you've got the upcoming alpha hype working for you it's great, when you don't people start getting cranky. 😉
 

1 hour ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Ive played this game for 10,000 hours over 10 years and im bored now.  WTF devs!!!!

That's not what I said, I wasn't even complaining about being bored. In fact, I said that I'd earned that boredom and implied that I was waiting anxiously for the next alpha. I don't think the devs have done anything wrong here. I was just explaining why some people were getting 'emotional' let's say? 

If you're going to paraphrase me do it accurately FFS

I mean we all know about your love of balloon animals and how much you want balloon animals added to the game, right? See how that works?

Edited March 1, 2023 by Neminsis
That space was necessary for my sanity. (see edit history)

[Aldranon]

Can people make a living on just playing games on YouTube?

Not people living with their parents' ether.

I know Kage848 works several jobs. 

 

It just feels like some people need to reassess who is really responsible for their life.

If someone thinks its other people making a game that is responsible for their life... they need a wakeup call someday soon.

[Neminsis]

4 minutes ago, Aldranon said:

It just feels like some people need to reassess who is really responsible for their life.

Where do you suppose most of the promotion of this game comes from?

There's good reasons why Twitch integration is now included in the game and streamer weekend is also a thing. If the devs can recognize the value in that then perhaps you might consider it yourself? You wouldn't really encourage those same people to not promote the game for free would you? 😊

[beerfly]

Aye everyone, its all good. Lets stop this nonsense talk.

 

We`ve all been through A17, its gonna be better, we just don`t know it. Yet, and for better. 

 

[Doomofman]

This is the ebb and flow of this forum... It dies down for a week or so, then a big argument breaks out, rinse repeat

 

I'd like to say A21 release will put and end to that but we all know it wont

[Aldranon]

1 hour ago, Neminsis said:

Where do you suppose most of the promotion of this game comes from?

There's good reasons why Twitch integration is now included in the game and streamer weekend is also a thing. If the devs can recognize the value in that then perhaps you might consider it yourself? You wouldn't really encourage those same people to not promote the game for free would you? 😊

 

If a person is doing the streamer thing, then that is their choice.  It's not my choice or TFP's choice.  TFP consider it a "quid pro quo" to anyone that can help them.

For me, there is no value in it.  I would rather play the game myself.

[Syphon583]

5 hours ago, Cr0wst0rm said:

The lack of interest of devs (or management) was clear from the beggining of this alpha and the "sound" post is just another clear indication.

4 hours ago, Cr0wst0rm said:

Even a 5 member studio is capable of showing more "behind the scenes", this is more like behind of nothing. Clearly you should get your eyesight checked...

Being capable or the size of the team has nothing to do with it. The first page of this topic includes a wall of text describing changes that will be coming to this alpha. Regardless of how you feel about those changes, that is a clear indication that:

1. The devs has been extremely open about their behind-the-scenes activity
2. Their interest for the game has not waned one bit

Yes they've been quiet the past few weeks, but we're not entitled to 24-7 communication from them.

[Laz Man]

6 hours ago, Cr0wst0rm said:

For anyone thinking this was done for PeRForManCE reasons: 

You are DEAD WRONG. Since shader model 3, you can do GPU instancing, which basically allows you to draw milions if not billions of same looking objects with many color variations. It is a HARDWARE specification of all current modern GPU's, therefore it runs FAST. The game could have streets polluted with hundreds of cars (with interiors) with no performance cost whatsoever! I keep @%$#ing about this, because I know I have a valid point. And the guy has too. Otherwise we would not talk of it at ALL!

 

Maybe I missed the comment about cars, but did someone say we only have one color?  There is alot more color variety and then some as far as vehicle wrecks on the road in A21.

[Laz Man]

5 hours ago, Neminsis said:

You could ask the same question of me since I haven't played the game for a year besides a couple instances of helping someone create content for their channel, but perhaps my answer might offer another perspective on what @IzPrebuilt was saying and why.

I've got about 10,000 hours combined play time in this game since console. With the last couple thousand focused on helping produce content for a small YouTube channel. That last couple thousand was the closest I've ever come to actually hating this game. Every single day was a struggle to come up something new to make the game seem interesting to watch. There's the different play through scenarios, mods, tips and tricks, tutorials, different game mechanics, and base building videos, and the best performing videos were always the news about the upcoming alpha and the first playthrough of that alpha. You see, that peak players is also peak viewers, and for guys like @IzPrebuilt that literally built their channel on an upcoming alpha it's harder to justify the hours spent without that peak pending, YouTube certainly doesn't pay enough when you're a niche creator. 

I've also encouraged my partner to shift away from 7days and not just to broaden the appeal of the channel but because the game runs out of viable content too quickly. The tutorials, tips and tricks, all of the above are only one shot per alpha and if you're doing even 2 videos a week you're going to be running on fumes 6 months into the year and milking it until the next alpha comes out and you get to do them all over again. This is both why we hang around the forum waiting for any news and why dropping a short video of a guy making sounds for the minibike can seem insulting and drive the crankier among us a little closer to the edge. We can't even do anything with that. 

Now me, I'm bored to death of 7days as it is, I've earned that boredom over long hours of dedication to it, but except for the vile suggestion that I take up modding, there isn't anything left in the game for me until the next alpha comes out and it just can't come out soon enough.

Now let's all get back to arguing about jars and learn by looting because that's never boring 🙄

 

It can be a struggle to keep pumping out fresh content for a AAA MMO subscription game let alone a finite gameplay loop single purchase game like 7 days to die.  One reason players enjoy the game so much is its overwhelming potential to be so many different things while there not being many other games out there with the same blend of gameplay / mechanics.  I believe because of that, people can become easily upset when that potential is missed in their minds, especially when there are several others with the same opinion.

 

The reality is, the game has been in development for a very long time and is finally nearing the finish line.  Hopefully many of the missed opportunities will be considered in a future title or perhaps the games sequel.

[Jost Amman]

16 minutes ago, Syphon583 said:

Being capable or the size of the team has nothing to do with it.

True, the size of the team doesn't matter... it's how you use it! 

 

@SnowDog1942

[Neminsis]

6 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

I believe because of that, people can become easily upset when that potential is missed in their minds, especially when there are several others with the same opinion.

I can't disagree with anything you've said here except that maybe it's not so much missed potential at this point but missed promotional opportunities because of the lack of information coming out lately. I get that they're saving a lot of it for their own dev stream and that some of it just may not be ready for prime time yet but certainly a few screenshots of poi reworks and such couldn't hurt, right? I mean that's what I'm most excited about personally. There have to be some bones they can throw to people out here.

[meganoth]

On 2/28/2023 at 2:30 PM, Cr0wst0rm said:

They literally laugh at their own players for buying the game. After 10 years of waiting. OK

 

By the way, have you considered that the way the minibike sound is made may actually be just like in the video? Probably with some sound shaping afterwards, but it is usual in Foley sound design to fake sounds instead of using the real sounds (one source I found said only 20% of sounds in movies are from the original sound source)

 

Naturally knowing this will forever color out impression when we'll drive the minibike from now on if this turns out to be the real method of creating the minibike sounds 😁

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Cr0wst0rm]

22 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

By the way, have you considered that the way the minibike sound is made may actually be just like in the video? Probably with some sound shaping afterwards, but it is usual in Foley sound design to fake sounds instead of using the real sounds (one source I found said only 20% of sounds in movies are from the original sound source)

 

Naturally knowing this will forever color out impression when we'll drive the minibike from now on if this turns out to be the real method of creating the minibike sounds 😁

 

Original source of course, heck, even I know that spilling guts are made out of wet towels dropping on ground. But that is besides my point. You don't want to show such "progress" after 10 years of development. What i was expecting was some more advanced gameplay technics/physics even. After 10 years: No modular zombies, no bandits, no vehicle interiors. That is just a currently what we are looking at. I am so @%$#ed by the excuses and this new "UI" straight up from some dumb icon library just topped it off for me. Lighing probably also dropped back compared to alpha 20. Sorry but that is end for me really....

[BFT2020]

If you don't find any enjoyment from the game anymore, then just simply walk away.

 

Nobody is forcing anyone to play the game or keep playing it after 100s / 1000s of hours into it.  It is a personal choice.

 

Just on the way out, there is no need to attack community members that still like to play the game, or the moderators trying to keep the forum cordial, or the developers because they decided to go a different direction than what you wanted with their game that they are developing and moving towards release.

 

When we purchased the game, it came with a disclaimer that game mechanics and features can change prior to the final release.  Guess what, they were not lying.  It has changed.  We were warned that it might, you can't blame the developers because they did so (if you are upset that features and changes you wanted are not there anymore, maybe re-evaluate whether or not you should buy a game that is in early Access / Development).  Whether or not you believe that was for the better is a personal opinion, and not surprisingly, there are people on both sides of that opinion.  If you don't like where the game is going, that is your opinion and your are more than welcome to have it.  However, being toxic to the developers or other community members because of that direction change is not necessary or needed.  If you find yourself cussing out game developers because they are not creating the game exactly how you want it to be created / developed, maybe the issue is not with with developers themselves.....

 

I tried Ark myself.  Didn't like it at all really.  Guess what I did?  I just simply stopped playing the game and moved on.  Other games I shelved while they are keep going through development with the promise to return back to them later to see if they are still enjoyable or if they changed and it is time for me to move on.

[Roland]

7 hours ago, Neminsis said:

You could ask the same question of me since I haven't played the game for a year besides a couple instances of helping someone create content for their channel, but perhaps my answer might offer another perspective on what @IzPrebuilt was saying and why.

 

I could ask that of you if you had explicitly stated that you now hate the game and plan to stop playing ASAP. That statement of his was the context for my question. I understand someone who loves the game and wants to post their dislikes in the hopes that something will change but even if not they still love the game enough to keep playing and just overlook the parts they don't like but they want to get their voice out there. But for someone who has hated the game for some time and hates it now and plans to extricate himself from it just as soon as he can find a new game that will resonate with his audience and the only reason he is playing it is due to the demand of his audience, then I feel compelled to ask them 'what the heck are you doing here and posting non-constructive sarcastic negativity for a game you outright admit has no place in your future?'

 

Now, does that apply to you as well?

Edited March 1, 2023 by Roland (see edit history)

[meilodasreh]

13 hours ago, beerfly said:

And now the weather forecast !

 

BEERFLY!!!

You still owe the community a weather forecast!

You promised that a long time ago, and yet nothing, all that time you had, and still no update!

A am so mad right now, how dare you keep such a long radio silence.

Why? WHY!!!!

 

I...oh wait, I just snapped out of it...

Definitely to blame is the recently rather toxic vibes here in the forum conversations.

 

 

Hi everyone! 🙂 

How's everybody doing? Hope you're all well.

I had a great day, and just came by to check on here what's going on.

Btw I like many of the ideas TFP have for A21 and I'm very positively excited to get my hands on it!

Bye now, take care and see you soon, I have to get the kids to bed.

 

 

Spoiler

YOU LIL SH%HEA§$S, IF YOU AREN'T READY FOR BED IN 5 FU$&IN MINUTES DADDY WILL SLAP YOUR LIL A§§ES FOR GOOD!!!

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[beerfly]

Never trust a meteorologist..

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

If you don't find any enjoyment from the game anymore, then just simply walk away.

This works for a normal player but for a content creator things are a bit more complicated. If he no longer delivers the content his community wants to see then they will simply leave and look for someone else. And it's questionable whether a different game can attract new viewers. His Valheim videos have nowhere near the views that the 7 Days videos have.