Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[jorbascrumps]

4 hours ago, Gronal said:

What I'm very curious about is... and this would require a fairly fundamental change so my guess to my own question is no - the crucible, bellows and anvil... will they be dynamic? It will be somewhat torturous if you have bad rng looking for a crucible, for example, and visually there's one just sitting there on your forge.
My guess is that yes, the block will still be just static and the appearance will not be tied to the tool slots. But how cool would it be if I'm wrong.

23 minutes ago, Syphon583 said:

Would it really be that big of a change, though? We already have weapon models that are dynamic based on what mods you have installed. This is exactly the same principle. I would be extremely surprised (and disappointed) if the model wasn't dynamic. Sure would be a waste of the new design.

 

None of the other workstations are dynamic so I wouldn't expect the forge to be. Presumably they would want to show off that tech if it were in place - look at how they showcased weapon mods, for example: they posted images showing how each looked.

[Riamus]

4 hours ago, DuHast_Play said:

It would be great if modifications to armor, clothes and weapons were visually displayed. In addition to the silencer, sight, laser pointer and flashlight. After all, there are "Folding butt", "Extended barrel", Extended magazine "and others for weapons. And all sorts of armor plates, pouches and other things for clothes with armor.

I doubt they are planning to do that for everything that can be modded, but it would be great if they did.  I've been playing Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous lately and seeing even the quick slot items appear on characters looks so nice.

47 minutes ago, jorbascrumps said:

None of the other workstations are dynamic so I wouldn't expect the forge to be. Presumably they would want to show off that tech if it were in place - look at how they showcased weapon mods, for example: they posted images showing how each looked.

This is a new model for the forge, so I'm sure we will get new models for the other workstations as well.  If they are doing new models, there is no reason to think they won't make them dynamic just because they aren't currently dynamic.  I would love to see them be dynamic, but not sure that they will bother with that.

[NekoPawtato]

56 minutes ago, jorbascrumps said:

 

None of the other workstations are dynamic so I wouldn't expect the forge to be. Presumably they would want to show off that tech if it were in place - look at how they showcased weapon mods, for example: they posted images showing how each looked

the old forge model can already look different depending on whether it's on or off (presence/absence of fire), same with campfire and chem station, so wouldn't that mean it already can do dynamic stuff to a certain extent?

[Jost Amman]

36 minutes ago, NekoPawtato said:

the old forge model can already look different depending on whether it's on or off (presence/absence of fire), same with campfire and chem station, so wouldn't that mean it already can do dynamic stuff to a certain extent?

I'm no expert, but my guess is those are just "particle effects", not a block model change.

[Riamus]

37 minutes ago, NekoPawtato said:

the old forge model can already look different depending on whether it's on or off (presence/absence of fire), same with campfire and chem station, so wouldn't that mean it already can do dynamic stuff to a certain extent?

Good point, though I think that is just a lighting effect rather than a change to the workstations.  I may be wrong, though.

[Vintorez]

Just thinking, would it be possible to have a few frame shapes that extend beyond their normal cube space to fill that gap between terrain and block? Like a a regular full block plus an extra 1/2 block attached to one side and variants for corners, could call the them Foundation shapes or something. Not sure how well the game deals with what would essentially be intentional clipping but it would also open more building possibilities in general.

[Riamus]

9 minutes ago, Vintorez said:

Just thinking, would it be possible to have a few frame shapes that extend beyond their normal cube space to fill that gap between terrain and block? Like a a regular full block plus an extra 1/2 block attached to one side and variants for corners, could call the them Foundation shapes or something. Not sure how well the game deals with what would essentially be intentional clipping but it would also open more building possibilities in general.

Blocks can't generally fill space that includes another block.  That's how voxels work.  There are some ways to make things happen, like how they will make water fill into a space with a block, but that isn't something that I think could be done with normal blocks.  I normally just ignore it myself, but there is an option that can be done to kind of obscure this effect (with limitations)... If you build a "floor" one block out from a wall, you can place terrain so it covers part of that block.  The terrain would be raised up, so in effect it is the opposite depending on surrounding terrain, but it is an option.  For things like a driveway into a garage, I just place either a wedge or a flat panel over the gap and it looks fine.  Not really what you want around the rest of the base, though.

 

I would love a tool that can adjust density of terrain blocks in game, though.  Less for this reason and more because I've had times where uneven terrain causes blocks I place to be above the expected level.  One example is digging one block deep and replacing with asphalt for a driveway and having the driveway 1/4m higher than the surrounding terrain.

[Guppycur]

6 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Blocks can't generally fill space that includes another block.  That's how voxels work.  There are some ways to make things happen, like how they will make water fill into a space with a block, but that isn't something that I think could be done with normal blocks.  I normally just ignore it myself, but there is an option that can be done to kind of obscure this effect (with limitations)... If you build a "floor" one block out from a wall, you can place terrain so it covers part of that block.  The terrain would be raised up, so in effect it is the opposite depending on surrounding terrain, but it is an option.  For things like a driveway into a garage, I just place either a wedge or a flat panel over the gap and it looks fine.  Not really what you want around the rest of the base, though.

 

I would love a tool that can adjust density of terrain blocks in game, though.  Less for this reason and more because I've had times where uneven terrain causes blocks I place to be above the expected level.  One example is digging one block deep and replacing with asphalt for a driveway and having the driveway 1/4m higher than the surrounding terrain.

Not entirely true, and those ember piles are a great example.

 

When you look them, the meshes actually extend past the voxel space they occupy.  Think of the voxel space as the allotted space in code for the block, and the mesh is just the visual.  So yes, they could (and do) technically make the terrain block meshes larger than the space they occupy.  Just gotta keep the collider within the voxel space.

 

That being said, it's not a great idea.  When meshes collide you can sometimes get funky and very obvious lines at the collision points. that will look FAR worse than the gap.

 

No, I imagine the best solution is to bring the prefab editing tool that affects density into the actual game, call it a "Tamper Tool" and that will allow those with OCD to fix the gaps.  Left click changes the density, right click resets it for when you invariably mess up.

 

[Riamus]

5 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

Not entirely true, and those ember piles are a great example.

 

When you look them, the meshes actually extend past the voxel space they occupy.  Think of the voxel space as the allotted space in code for the block, and the mesh is just the visual.  So yes, they could (and do) technically make the terrain block meshes larger than the space they occupy.  Just gotta keep the collider within the voxel space.

Hmm. I thought those were just larger than one block?  I've never tried placing anything on the surrounding blocks to test, though.

[Guppycur]

Just now, Riamus said:

Hmm. I thought those were just larger than one block?  I've never tried placing anything on the surrounding blocks to test, though.

Yeh just place one next to another and you'll see what I mean... I know I use this technique when making rock wall blocks, so that it looks more natural... place, spin, place the next, spin repeat... 

[meilodasreh]

Love the new forge.

I would assume the recipe will be changed too?

I mean, that thing looks much more elaborate than the old one,

which looked like it was truly "macgyvered" out of just some stones, clay, a pipe and duct tape (of course you need duct tape in every MacGyver recipe 😄) 

 

But look at the new model, with all these fancy hex nuts/bolts, tubing, bent iron reinforcements, and stuff.

 

Is this forge meant to be available later in the game, locked behind some more advanced "science stuff"?

...or is it even an "advanced forge", not just another model for replacing the "old" one?

 

...if you ask me, it even looks like it would require a forge to forge that forge. 🤔🙃

[Code6]

I'm all for having pretty assets in the game, but I don't think the forge needs to be portrayed with all those tools and such.  Who only has a single forge in their base?  It is going to look really busy to see a bunch of those forge accessories repeated for each forge.  Plus the waste of space to require them to be 1x2.

 

I have been building my forging area like this picture for years now.

[Gronal]

13 minutes ago, Code6 said:

I'm all for having pretty assets in the game, but I don't think the forge needs to be portrayed with all those tools and such.  Who only has a single forge in their base?  It is going to look really busy to see a bunch of those forge accessories repeated for each forge.  Plus the waste of space to require them to be 1x2.

 

I have been building my forging area like this picture for years now.

I've always avoided stacking forges and cement mixers personally cos it looks so bad imo.
A better looking forge model is greatly appreciated from me.

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Code6 said:

I'm all for having pretty assets in the game, but I don't think the forge needs to be portrayed with all those tools and such.  Who only has a single forge in their base?  It is going to look really busy to see a bunch of those forge accessories repeated for each forge.  Plus the waste of space to require them to be 1x2.

 

I have been building my forging area like this picture for years now.

So have many, but I'm sure people will adjust.  Who knows?  Maybe the 1x2 forge will do twice as much and at the speed of two 1x1 forged so you don't lose anything.  Probably not, but it could happen. 😁

 

It does seem like they want to get people building larger bases.  The large water collectors and now larger forge. Personally, that's okay with me as I like building large bases, but I'm sure it'll be more than some people like.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Blake_]

In my opinion, the new forge is a good compromise: more or less double the gpu requirements for the asset but almost double the CPU performance vs former workstation-heavy spaces due to them being twice the size. 

 

If We are being honest here, 7dtd is not usually GPU bottlenecked with the  rtx30/rtx40 series nor with the latest amd systems, but it doesn't seem to be an end to the "single threaded power" and speed that this title needs in order to improve fps. 

 

Long story short, 'moar' Zds inside a fully destroyable world need 'moar' speed .

[16.4forever]

Simple question we are 15 months in since the last alpha was released what seems to be the major malfunction here ? 

[BFT2020]

1 minute ago, 16.4forever said:

Simple question we are 15 months in since the last alpha was released what seems to be the major malfunction here ? 

Simple answer, they are addressing must fix bugs that the testers found before they can release it to everyone else.

[bdubyah]

1 hour ago, 16.4forever said:

Simple question we are 15 months in since the last alpha was released what seems to be the major malfunction here ? 

Add another month...

[DuHast_Play]

8 hours ago, Code6 said:

I'm all for having pretty assets in the game, but I don't think the forge needs to be portrayed with all those tools and such.  Who only has a single forge in their base?  It is going to look really busy to see a bunch of those forge accessories repeated for each forge.  Plus the waste of space to require them to be 1x2.

 

I have been building my forging area like this picture for years now.

For the execution of this design, I put 5 out of 5. For the Aesthetic and logical look, 1 out of 5... Let's share screenshots with workbenches. It’s interesting who manages how and what area allocates) I’ll throw it off when I return from work)

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, DuHast_Play said:

Let's share screenshots with workbenches. It’s interesting who manages how and what area allocates) I’ll throw it off when I return from work)

This is more or less my default setup

 

[DuHast_Play]

13 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

This is more or less my default setup

 

This is a good scope) the performance is fierce) and these are different premises and shelters? or is it one?

[RipClaw]

8 hours ago, Riamus said:

It does seem like they want to get people building larger bases.  The large water collectors and now larger forge. Personally, that's okay with me as I like building large bases, but I'm sure it'll be more than some people like.

I don't think the designers think about whether the players build their bases differently or not. When they create a workstation they will try to visually represent what that workstation is for.

 

I will have to change my default layout for the workstations. I already have an idea how to make it space efficient but still visually appealing.
 

Just now, DuHast_Play said:

This is a good scope) the performance is fierce) and these are different premises and shelters? or is it one?

These are from two different playthroughs. 

[Crater Creator]

I don’t think it’ll hurt anything to confirm that the new forge has dimensions of 2x2x1. The devs are well aware of how this means layout changes to rooms with forges, since the level designers will be adjusting POIs that have forges to work with the new size.

[Callum123456789]

That's interesting to know does that mean forges will be in poi's now in alpha 21? I played through every poi in alpha 20 and they all lacked a forge to loot exceptions for the traders.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Callum123456789 (see edit history)

[Crater Creator]

14 minutes ago, Callum123456789 said:

That's interesting to know does that mean forges will be in poi's now in alpha 21? I played through every poi in alpha 20 and they all lacked a forge to loot exceptions for the traders.

 

It just sounds like a find & replace job for the few POIs that already had forges in them. Except it has to be done manually, so the bigger forges don’t absorb adjacent blocks the way they would with a blind find & replace. On whether forges in POIs will be any different regarding functionality or lootability, I have nothing to share at this time.