Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Deadfordays]

23 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

Not true, it just takes some work.  My previous playthrough, I converted one of the T1 gas stations in a bunker style horde base  By the end of the playthrough, I had wide openings on all 4 sides with various traps to help assist with controlling the zombies.  The zombies were even nice to help me out by tearing out some of the blocks on the first few horde nights  😉

 

I have done the same thing with the burnt out convenience store and the bar that is for sale.  Small and compact, better make sure you stock up on ammo 🙂

 

Current playthrough I have taken over the ruined 4 floor apartment building and trying a maze type defense leading them all the way around and eventually up to the 3rd floor (4th floor is where my main base is).  Only 15 days in so can't judge if it will work (also have yet to find the workbench schematic so I am limited to only things i can craft in my backpack).  Only thing is, this base I decided that I can't repair it while the horde is going on so I am currently working on my 3rd fallback position on the second floor.

That ruined 4 story apartment building is quite fun to play as a horde base for awhile. We played it MP with four of us up to Day 28 and it can take a lot of damage. Although this last H/N we had demolishers and they started to take their toll on the structure. Good example of how zombies will attack anything due to no specific way to get to us. (We didn't run a maze to us). We had a sizable crater in the middle of it all due to all the detonations, so sadly we will have to build from scratch at this point! Enjoy!

[rateds2k]

1 hour ago, Riamus said:

Glass jars are unnecessary no matter how they do things. You seem fine that other containers aren't in the game from your own post, so there is no reason why glass jars should be different.  Yes, not being able to take water from a river or lake back to your base is a strange design choice, but it is clear why they decided to do that... To make water less abundant.

 

I believe that buckets are still going to be in the game. Super easy way to move water.   Also, now we will be able to drink directly from lakes. TFP also said that boiled water is found more often while looting.  As of now I find so much I have stacks by day 10 for crafting.

 

[Aldranon]

1 hour ago, Adam the Waster said:

i just think it should be harder to fix, like weapon/armor parts 


 

 

That would work too.  The whole idea, for me, would be to not allow "no cost" infinite gear.

I also like the idea that tier 6 weapons cannot be repaired but a few times.

This would give late a small challenge.  I presume that NPC Bandits would be the real late game challenge.

[Roland]

24 minutes ago, rateds2k said:

TFP also said that boiled water is found more often while looting.

 

Murky water is found more often while looting.

[zztong]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Murky water is found more often while looting.

 

And, if my memory of previous discussions serves, boiling it makes boiled water, cooking pot required. Has the time to boil changed any?

[Roland]

17 minutes ago, zztong said:

 

And, if my memory of previous discussions serves, boiling it makes boiled water, cooking pot required. Has the time to boil changed any?

 

I know that a cooking pot is required. I don't know if the time to boil has changed. I didn't notice a change.

[Callum123456789]

hey guys i know this probably isnt the most requested thing but has there been an increase fps wise for when you are in the world editor? my mean fps is usually 30 there and i was curious if that has been touched on at all? (it could also be my system lol)

[Riamus]

22 hours ago, rateds2k said:

I believe that buckets are still going to be in the game. Super easy way to move water.   Also, now we will be able to drink directly from lakes. TFP also said that boiled water is found more often while looting.  As of now I find so much I have stacks by day 10 for crafting.

 

They are, but if I remember correctly what you can do with that water is limited.  I think I saw it says that you can't put that water into a pot to boil.  It would just be for the uses in crafting that require a bucket of water.  It has been a while since I saw that post and I may remember it incorrectly, but I'm pretty sure that was what was said because I remember thinking it didn't make sense.

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong, though.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[meganoth]

9 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

So the red tea is just flaoting around in our inventory not inside any container? That´s what it is supposed to be?  And before you gotta ask, yes i personally think pots and bowls for eating should be a thing aswell. But you gotta draw a line somewhere and that´s the case with food, i know that most people don´t want it to go all the way here.

 

Riamus already answered the questions.

 

About that line. I once played the Exitus Extreme overhaul mod, it actually had you going to the toilet and afterwards use toilet paper. The author team obviously thought it was a good idea and seemingly wanted to play that way, everyone in my group hated it. There's many lines that can be drawn, I personally have no problem with gas cans in the game and don't expect to have any with water behaving the same. I have played RPGs for years and most or all of them did not give me back empty potion bottles after I drank anything. Maybe that is the reason I don't think a second about this being strange.

 

9 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

There are things where it is neccessary to "hide" them so the gameplay doesn´t become to complicated, like bladder, all the different tools actually needed instead of just a hammer and there is things where it isn´t necessary to hide them, especially in a survival game, like containers for liquids and not beeing able to utliize water sources. 

 

Rather make the process more complicated and/or timeconsuming to convert it into drinkable water. Would be reasonable after the apocalypse, there could be really bad stuff contaminating the water that´s not just solved with boiling it. That would not only be more reasaonable but also add to the lore/story. And you would still need the extra crafting station with parts that could be rare that aren´t that unreasonable to be not craftable like it is with the filter.

 

Go on. Your idea is to make the process more complicated or timeconsuming. I don't see how exactly more complicated helps here. Are we talking "new-players-won't-understand-it-and-die-of-thirst"-complicated? Obviously TFP can't go that far. But then what? 

 

Lets see timeconsuming. Just tell me what you think should be the time to produce 1 jar of water be? Just like now produced in the campfire? If not, where?

 

If in the campfire how can you prevent the player just setting up 10 of them? If not in the campfire, how can you insure that the player has access to it from the start?

 

 

[KenGross]

i am happy to not have to deal with empty glass bottles anymore.  actually i always thought they should have a large percentage to crack or break anyway.  

 

 

[unholyjoe]

2 hours ago, Callum123456789 said:

hey guys i know this probably isnt the most requested thing but has there been an increase fps wise for when you are in the world editor? my mean fps is usually 30 there and i was curious if that has been touched on at all? (it could also be my system lol)

could be anything as you suspect. if i turn off all the locators, bounding boxes, trader markers (basically all of those square boxes that mark pois and such) the fps will rise above 200 for me but turn all back on, then yes it can did very low, thats why i only have the markers on that i need and not everything on.

 

also keep in mind that the world editor has the clouds/fog off so everything is being rendered and not hidden behing fog and such.

 

oh and thats testing it in a21.

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Riamus said:

They are, but if I remember correctly what you can do with that water is limited.  I think I saw it says that you can put that water into a pot to boil.  It would just be for the uses in crafting that require a bucket of water.  It has been a while since I saw that post and I may remember it incorrectly, but I'm pretty sure that was what was said because I remember thinking it didn't make sense.

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong, though.

in a21 the buckets are ONLY used to transport water to a spot that you designate such as you created a swim pool/spa/drinking hole or whatever.

 

that bucket can not be put on a campfire or any fire to boil water. sorry 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by unholyjoe (see edit history)

[bdubyah]

38 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

in a21 the buckets are ONLY used to transport water to a spot that you designate such as you created a swim pool/spa/drinking hole or whatever.

 

that bucket can not be put on a campfire or any fire to boil water. sorry 

But if you did that and had a water purifier mod then would that mean you're set? That is under the assumption that drinking directly from a water block never depletes it, of course.

[khzmusik]

1 hour ago, bdubyah said:

That is under the assumption that drinking directly from a water block never depletes it, of course.

 

That's actually a good question, since water itself is being overhauled in A21.

 

Since it's no longer a block, does it ever reduce or deplete when you drink from it (or otherwise remove water)?

[Slasher]

Still waiting on a pair of regular ass Binoculars. 

[Slasher]

Golf club 
Cricket bat
miniboat
a Watch, why can i tell the time off rip. 
Fishing
Roaming hoards
Chicken, Deer, Rabbit, Lion, Bear, Dog.   yeahnah*Meat*
Ziplines?
Smell?
Katana
Guitar
Radios around town, be a better place for all that music to be.
Blowdarts
Kicking

Zombies still do this weird oh you've struck me in the face kind sir let me lay down and instantly get back up. Guppy
 

[vergilsparda]

Not sure if I've ever seen this asked before, but it is worrying me only slightly: for modlet/mod makers, how difficult would anyone say the change is going to be from modding A20 and below vs A21? What, if any, changes are going to need to be made to make a mod/modlet compatible with the next Alpha, given the changes to perks and crafting? With the way the new magazines/books sound, modlets that have any schematics are going to have to update their schematics to fit into this new Learn-By-Looting model, and as such, how difficult is that going to be for a beginner/moderate/advanced XML modder?

[EggsAisle]

4 hours ago, Slasher said:

Golf club 
Cricket bat
miniboat
a Watch, why can i tell the time off rip. 
Fishing
Roaming hoards
Chicken, Deer, Rabbit, Lion, Bear, Dog.   yeahnah*Meat*
Ziplines?
Smell?
Katana
Guitar
Radios around town, be a better place for all that music to be.
Blowdarts
Kicking

Zombies still do this weird oh you've struck me in the face kind sir let me lay down and instantly get back up. Guppy
 

 

This is all extremely silly and I love it. Thank you for sparking joy in my life. My favorite is blowdarts. Completely out of left field lmao.

[pApA^LeGBa]

9 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Riamus already answered the questions.

 

About that line. I once played the Exitus Extreme overhaul mod, it actually had you going to the toilet and afterwards use toilet paper. The author team obviously thought it was a good idea and seemingly wanted to play that way, everyone in my group hated it. There's many lines that can be drawn, I personally have no problem with gas cans in the game and don't expect to have any with water behaving the same. I have played RPGs for years and most or all of them did not give me back empty potion bottles after I drank anything. Maybe that is the reason I don't think a second about this being strange.

 

 

Go on. Your idea is to make the process more complicated or timeconsuming. I don't see how exactly more complicated helps here. Are we talking "new-players-won't-understand-it-and-die-of-thirst"-complicated? Obviously TFP can't go that far. But then what? 

 

Lets see timeconsuming. Just tell me what you think should be the time to produce 1 jar of water be? Just like now produced in the campfire? If not, where?

 

If in the campfire how can you prevent the player just setting up 10 of them? If not in the campfire, how can you insure that the player has access to it from the start?

 

 

 

Complicated in the sense of the process that is happening in that workstation and maybe adding an extrastep. How does TFP ensure players don´t just set up 10 dew collectors on day one? Exactly like that and how i already said in my post before.

 

I am not here to provide a working alternative that is ready to be put in the game with all details solved, it´s a suggestion/argument. No need to go that much into detail. I simply showed that it doesn´t need to be a solution that feels so artifical. You like what TFP did, good for you. I am just here saying it would be way better to have more reasonable solutions if possible and it would be possible here with not more work or time needed than the solution TFP came up with.

Edited January 14, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[meganoth]

34 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Complicated in the sense of the process that is happening in that workstation and maybe adding an extrastep. How does TFP ensure players don´t just set up 10 dew collectors on day one? Exactly like that and how i already said in my post before.

 

I am not here to provide a working alternative that is ready to be put in the game with all details solved, it´s a suggestion/argument. No need to go that much into detail. I simply showed that it doesn´t need to be a solution that feels so artifical. You like what TFP did, good for you. I am just here saying it would be way better to have more reasonable solutions if possible and it would be possible here with not more work or time needed than the solution TFP came up with.

 

Well, it was your claim that other solutions exist that are on equal footing with the current solution and more immersive.

 

Almost everone who doesn't agree with this change automatically makes that claim, some others even add the word "easily" to imply that they thought about a solution for a minute and got one that works. Until someone comes along and pokes holes into that scheme.

 

My point is that those minutes are not enough to think through an idea. And even if someone (you for example) only postulates that such a different equivalent solution exists he still is only offering an unsubstantiated claim. Such a solution may exist but one can only be sure by actually designing and testing one. And no, you can't just be sure it must exist, for that the variables involved are too many.

 

At the moment you simply showed almost nothing: You only showed that you believe in the other solution existing because you started to think about it and saw a few promising directions where a solution might be found.

 

Other ways to make water scarce do exist, no doubt about that. But whether they work for single player, multi player, newbies, experienced players and don't disrupt other systems or open up new problems, THAT is the important question to ask.

 

 

 

[Jost Amman]

7 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Other ways to make water scarce do exist

Hmm, I wonder how you can be sure about that...  

[pApA^LeGBa]

@meganoth Look i know it´s possible that´s all what i am saying. The solution TFP presents is NOT the only solution possible. Do you understand that now or do i need to tell you in caps lock that i simply only showed that TFP didn´t come up with the only solution possible nor with the most reasonable solution possible?

 

I don´t know why you get so hostile, it´s almost like you made this and are now angry because people don´t like it and god forbid, even have own ideas. How dare we have our own opinons.

 

It´s not my job to come up with solutions, nor do i have to provide every detail needed jsut to be allowed to voice my opinion that the existing one is bad. If TFP doesn´t want people to voice their opinion then they shouldn´t reveal any details.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Laran Mithras]

Do the devs intend to make the game harder to mod when it finally goes "gold?" I mean, if the game is still just as moddable, then people endlessly griping should be able to play exactly the way they want.

 

Can a mod or dev answer this simple question? Will the game still be moddable? 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Mods can´t be the anwser to everything. Modding in a group is always a hassle. And the more things you need to mod to have a good experience the more likely it is you stop playing and look for something that suits you more. 

 

And the idea alone that mods won´t be possible after release propably gave a few people a heartattack when reading it. That would cause a huge outrage in the community even if they just would make it harder just for the sake of it. There is no reason at all to do that. Unless steam workshop has some stupid rules that i don´t know about, but that would be a good reason to not use it then tbh.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[outhous]

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

I don´t know why you get so hostile, it´s almost like you made this and are now angry because people don´t like it and god forbid, even have own ideas. How dare we have our own opinons.

Where is this hostility you speak of??

[unholyjoe]

1 hour ago, Laran Mithras said:

Can a mod or dev answer this simple question? Will the game still be moddable? 

even tho we are in development stage and been some quorks here and there... TFP has always wanted and will make 7dtd completely mod-able as possible.

 

one of the owners (joel) has modded several other games and loves modding. any rumors of TFP not wanting 7dtd modded are just that... rumors  and should be ignored.

enjoy

 

i myself will be glad when 7dtd is gold then all the rumor vines can be cut/mowed down.

Edited January 14, 2023 by unholyjoe (see edit history)