Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[meilodasreh]

6 hours ago, RipClaw said:

I wouldn't call it encouraging if you don't have a real alternative. I know the trader will also sell magazines but it probably won't be

I might have chosen the wrong term here, which remains to be seen.

If you like "prefer/tend more towards" or similar better, then take it for now,

but as you said yourself, right now we're at the current state of "if" and "probably won't", not "will definitely be".

[RipClaw]

14 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

I thought I was clear, but since you replied this way, I'll clarify.

 

Building is actually one of the activities in 7D2D which doesn't require perking into something to do it and progress in it.

This means that to start building, up to cobblestone, you literally have to do nothing to earn it.

 

You wanna make a forge? Need to perk into it.

You wanna a craft a vehicle? Need to perk into it.

You get what I mean (I hope).

 

The part I was referring to is

 

15 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

That's already fairly OP and unbalanced, IMO... what other game lets you have everything by basically doing nothing?

 

Building is not doing nothing. It may not be the most glorious activity or the most dangerous but it does demand time and resources.

 

 

[Grue]

15 hours ago, Roland said:

Well, relatively speaking good stuff. Its not all OP stuff at all but it is useful stuff. More seeds and raw veggies. Magazines. Crafting ingredients that you will use. It's hard to say why but empty bottles were always kind of meh maybe because after Day 1 or 2 you already had all you would ever need so they were just needless useless placeholders that are now gone so you are finding things that while technically junk it is stuff you can use and need.

It is much more rewarding without the empty bottles. You may wish for them when most of what you find has some usefulness to it and you think, why do I always get good stuff now? This sucks! But so far I haven't missed them being gone from the loot tables.

 

You heard it here first folks, someone accidentally found "useful stuff" missed by the dev team.

As this exploit might inadvertently lead to viable gameplay, Looting is officially OP!

Next patch will completely remove the loot tables and replace everything with magazines.

Remember it only takes ten "How to Eat" magazines to unlock the ability to digest higher tiered foods like Snowberries and Yucca fruit. 

[unholyjoe]

32 minutes ago, Professor-Pip said:

@Roland, are you saying that the new magazine system no longer has different volumes? So, no “Art of Mining Vol 1-7” but just “Art of Mining”? And re-reading the “Art of Mining” will get you more levels in mining, for instance? Interesting. 

magazines are different from the books (which still exist) reading the magazines increase the crafting tiers appropriately when you read enough. the books have nothing to do with crafting now but still have perk benefits as they did before.

 

example and this is only an example.... you may need to read 75 magazines for tools with each tier increasing after every so many mags are read. so if you read say 15 tool magazines then you will be advanced to crafting tier 2.

 

so now you read books for the perks they give and the last volume bonus and you read magazines to improve your crating tiers. (the mags do not offer any bonuses) and the rules are still the same for now as you can only craft as high as t5 blues.

[RipClaw]

9 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

magazines are different from the books (which still exist) reading the magazines increase the crafting tiers appropriately when you read enough. the books have nothing to do with crafting now but still have perk benefits as they did before.

I assume that books that contained schematics, such as the steel club (Batter Up! Vol 6) or the M60 machine gun (Automatic Weapons Handbook Vol 7), were replaced by perks and not dropped without replacement.

Edited January 11, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[unholyjoe]

yes everything has been changed for the changes and books are not schematics.

Edited January 11, 2023 by unholyjoe (see edit history)

[Doomofman]

46 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

you can only craft as high as t5 blues.

 

Why do you hate us?

[SnowDog1942]

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Jost Amman Because screamers totally aren´t a thing when mining, right?

thats a big threat? Really?

[unholyjoe]

1 minute ago, Doomofman said:

 

Why do you hate us?

<with cotton stuffed in ears>

 

Huh wut ya say... i cant hear ya?

 

[RipClaw]

8 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

thats a big threat? Really?

Depends on the gamestage and how fast you eliminate the screamers. As soon as screamers spawn other screamers it can happen that you have in the end 30 or more zombies on your heels and with a high gamestage also a lot of radioactive zombies. I had a screamer horde a while ago where 139 zombies got spawned according to the log.

 

 

[Aldranon]

2 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

So you did read that book "life of Pi" right?

Nope and now I have to. 

Wait, was there a Tiger in it and a raft? 

*NM, I couldn't get into it, but I'll try again.

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Aldranon (see edit history)

[Aldranon]

3 hours ago, Laran Mithras said:

Just saying, I prefer an endless "Early Access." Many games get "finished" and the devs move on: prompting players to claim the game was "abandoned."

 

I rather enjoy having ongoing dev-attention; it's almost like an MMO without the subscription. Pretty much guaranteed new content and updates forever. Until the game is called finished... and then nothing. No complaints here. coughnewcharactermodelscough

 

7D2D is still selling so that's good although I don't know the dollar amount.   If the funds dry up, even after A22 (bandits?) then TFP have to make a choice: start their next product or do a "Hail Marry" and push on hoping for the best.

 

7D2D is one of my favorite games and I hope everything goes well for them.

[pApA^LeGBa]

44 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

thats a big threat? Really?

 

It can easily be one, i had big hordes in my mines when doing bigger building projects and needing lots of concrete and steel. When going out doing the "dangerous" looting, you mostly have to deal with sleepers. A bit of POI knowledge and beeing a bit cautios and pretty much every POI is a walk in the park.

Edited January 11, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[armidil0]

13 hours ago, Blake_ said:

I did love the throwing mechanic, as annoying as losing a modded spear from time to time could be .  I would like the feature back, or at least as a legendary effect, but with a twist: an autoretrieve mod, like a rope or a chain or something that prevents us from losing the weapon and places it in your inventory upon throwing it (if full, it tosses the spear into the ground next to you). 

 

How awesome would that be?

 

As for your question, they did say yes, the holes are for every weapon, but don't expect 100% accuracy with weapons like a sledge, or rather you can expect it but due to the glancing blows it could also damage the hole/door itself.

Thanks for the reply. 🙂

 

I agree, I liked the idea of throwing spears, but just not as the power attack. If there was a separate item that stacked to like, 5? That would have been perfect I think.

 

I'm glad you can still hit the doors. I like to help the zombies break them if they're taking too long with it. I wonder if a dog or crawler/jumping zombie can hit you back through it since they're at waist level too. And when bandits get added I hope they can also hit and shoot through it. Holes should go both ways. 😅

[Jost Amman]

2 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Jost Amman Because screamers totally aren´t a thing when mining, right?

You didn't read my post, did you? 

 

2 hours ago, RipClaw said:

Building is not doing nothing. It may not be the most glorious activity or the most dangerous but it does demand time and resources.

What did you do to earn the "building perk"? Nothing

And it's clearly unbalanced because, as I said, you get tons of XP risking nothing.

The risk vs. reward mechanic is way off there.

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

34 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

It can easily be one, i had big hordes in my mines when doing bigger building projects and needing lots of concrete and steel. When going out doing the "dangerous" looting, you mostly have to deal with sleepers. A bit of POI knowledge and beeing a bit cautios and pretty much every POI is a walk in the park.

So, if looting is "a walk in the park", I don't see the problem there, just go @%$#ing looting once in a while and get those magazines.

And by the way, all you people saying that a screamer near your base is dangerous, well, how can I say it without offending... you still learn how to play sir.

[crazywildfire]

40 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

It can easily be one, i had big hordes in my mines when doing bigger building projects and needing lots of concrete and steel. When going out doing the "dangerous" looting, you mostly have to deal with sleepers. A bit of POI knowledge and beeing a bit cautios and pretty much every POI is a walk in the park.

 

The same can be said mining. If you do it right you can avoid screamers then it is a walk in the park. If you have figured out how to get around all POI's and make them a walk in the park then you played long enough to know how to make mining a walk in the park. Just sayin 

 

 

Edit- also wanna add. You go prepared mining it doesn't matter what game stage you are at. By the time I get high lvl spawns I have high lvl weapons to counter them. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by crazywildfire (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

8 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

So, if looting is "a walk in the park", I don't see the problem there, just go @%$#ing looting once in a while and get those magazines.

And by the way, all you people saying that a screamer near your base is dangerous, well, how can I say it without offending... you still learn how to play sir.

 

If you make big mines near your base, you are the one who needs to learn how to play tbh. I never said anything about screamers beeing a threat to my base. I also didn´t mention magazines. Just said that when mining you can be in more unpredictable danger, espcially in big mines that you need if you want to build big,  than when you go looting.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

7 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

What did you do to earn the "building perk"? Nothing

And what did any player do to get the "build a pipe weapon" perk? Nothing.

Besides, you wouldn't even be able to complete the starter quest if you couldn't build anything. After all, you have to upgrade at least one block.

 

11 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

And it's clearly unbalanced because, as I said, you get tons of XP risking nothing.

The risk vs. reward mechanic is way off there.

Complain to the Fun Pimps. They've balanced it out.

 

And quite honestly. You complain that you get XP for building and mining but that's all you get as a reward. Noting else.

When you loot you get resources, weapons, tools, T2 and T3 schematics and even quality level 6 items on top of the XP.

 

Also you can't unlock all schematics via the perks. In A21 you won't be able to unlock anything via the perks. Then T0 weapons and stone tools are the only things you can craft without magazines.

 

[Aldranon]

8 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

If you make big mines near your base, you are the one who needs to learn how to play tbh. I never said anything about screamers beeing a threat to my base. I also didn´t mention magazines. Just said that when mining you can be in more unpredictable danger, espcially in big mines that you need if you want to build big,  than when you go looting.

 

 

 

I get a huge majority of my experience by building.  I love building.   I end up mining at bedrock, especially when I have an auger.  Mining from bottom up is fun and has a touch of danger for me.  You need to plan a bit.   The entrance to my underground labyrinth starts at the center of my base.  I just dig in a direction (at bedrock) of a mine I'm interested in away from my base and end up finding several more non surface mines.  Screamers are too easy to kill.   If they were a bit tougher, it would be more interesting.

 

But at that point, everything is too easy.  However, making super bullet sponges is not my idea of fun ether.

Early game is the best.  Mid-game is nice and late game is just killing time for me (making huge bases is always fun for me though).

 

Waiting on the Kraken! 

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

If you make big mines near your base, you are the one who needs to learn how to play tbh. I never said anything about screamers beeing a threat to my base. I also didn´t mention magazines. Just said that when mining you can be in more unpredictable danger, espcially in big mines that you need if you want to build big,  than when you go looting.

We're talking about people who play all the time at their base, because they only want to mine and build. And my point is that building and mining are already OP since you can mostly (depending on the available materials/tools) do everything with minimal risk. ... So, who were you talking to then?

 

1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

And what did any player do to get the "build a pipe weapon" perk? Nothing.

Besides, you wouldn't even be able to complete the starter quest if you couldn't build anything. After all, you have to upgrade at least one block.

Sorry, but your comparison is weak. Building allows you to build an entire base, up to cobblestone, and earn tons of XP (as I said), comparing that to a pipe weapon which is barely useful and doesn't give XP for crafting, is like comparing a four stars hotel to a run-down motel.

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

Complain to the Fun Pimps. They've balanced it out.

 

And quite honestly. You complain that you get XP for building and mining but that's all you get as a reward. Noting else.

When you loot you get resources, weapons, tools, T2 and T3 schematics and even quality level 6 items on top of the XP.

You're clearly changing the point here because you have no argument to defend people who choose to stay home and risk close to nothing.

And by the way, the XP you earn "looting" is not because of the looting action only, and you know it. Most of it, is because you need to overcome the zombies outside and about and the zombies in POIs, avoid the traps, pick locks, search for treasure and so on... which is also the main point of the game: surviving the zombie threat.

 

Also, when you mine you get the XP, PLUS Clay, Rock, Iron, KNO3 and Lead, so you can get a lot of stuff mining and, as said, you risk close to nothing.

 

1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

Also you can't unlock all schematics via the perks. In A21 you won't be able to unlock anything via the perks. Then T0 weapons and stone tools are the only things you can craft without magazines.

So what? ... Players who think they should be able to unlock everything without risking anything are exactly the negative example I started with when I cited communism.

Also, it's not as fun for most people, to be rewarded stuff in a game, without having to earn it.

 

If that's your point of view, I'll acknowledge it, but I'm strongly against it since we have very different views on what "fun" and challenge is, in a game.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Still talking to you who claimed that looting is so much more dangerous when it really isn´t that much more dangerous. @Jost Amman No matter what you discussed originally, i only reacted to that part. Or am i not allowed to do that?

[RipClaw]

 

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

You're clearly changing the point here because you have no argument to defend people who choose to stay home and risk close to nothing.

Why should I defend anything ? I just made it clear that building is not doing nothing. That what you claimed at the beginning.

But you have already admitted that building is an activity and an activity is by definition not not doing nothing but doing something.

 

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

And by the way, the XP you earn "looting" is not because of the looting action only, and you know it. Most of it, is because you need to overcome the zombies outside and about and the zombies in POIs, avoid the traps, pick locks, search for treasure and so on... which is also the main point of the game: surviving the zombie threat.

 

Also, when you mine you get the XP, PLUS Clay, Rock, Iron, KNO3 and Lead, so you can get a lot of stuff mining and, as said, you risk close to nothing.

I know all this, I just don't care. The Fun Pimps have assigned specific XP to specific activities. When you kill a zombie you get a certain amount of XP and when you upgrade a block you get a certain amount of XP. Apparently risk is not the only factor for the Fun Pimps. Deal with it.
 

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

So what? ... Players who think they should be able to unlock everything without risking anything are exactly the negative example I started with when I cited communism.

Also, it's not as fun for most people, to be rewarded stuff in a game, without having to earn it.

 

If that's your point of view, I'll acknowledge it, but I'm strongly against it since we have very different views on what "fun" and challenge is, in a game.

I only explained that you can't unlock everything via perks in A20 and that will not be able to unlock anything via perks in A21. It is just a simple fact and has nothing to do with my personal view.

Edited January 11, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[Roland]

11 hours ago, Grue said:

Actually it is far worse than that. Instead one schematic you need, the thing you want is locked behind collecting a dozen magazines.

It will be interesting to see what happens when people actually play it. The book sets and mod schematics are still in the game as single volumes you can find to get a bonus. So that type of design is still in the game. Magazines are also in the game so you get to play both designs alongside each other. The magazine design is a lot more exciting and delivers more rewarding moments than the individual book volumes. I don't think people will think it is far worse.

 

12 hours ago, Grue said:

And it will be the same dozen magazines every time you play.

 

It will actually be the same 23 magazines every time you play. That is a huge diversity and results in a different mix and different order that you find every time you play. I haven't felt like my early game has duplicated itself once and I've started over now at least a dozen times.

 

12 hours ago, Grue said:

No more "Jackpot!" moments from getting lucky with a forge schematic on day 1

 

Maybe not as many but there are still some jackpot schematics and items you can find. Not only that but every time you read a magazine that triggers a new recipe being learned it is a mini jackpot feeling and I like those better because they happen more often and they don't ruin things by giving you something OP for your stage in the game.