Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[NekoPawtato]

11 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Now, click on the item and it'll take you to the crafting screen for that item.  You do still have to click the item in the list but it takes you to the right spot.  I think it should select the item on the crafting menu as well as just taking you there but this is pretty close.

I think my problem is I have no easy way to "go back" and look at the other items in the tier once I jump to that item's crafting screen. For example, if I want to see the level requirements of other items in that same tier, I have to go back to crafting skill menu, click on the category I want, click on the tier, and then click on the item. (And repeat for each item in that tier). It's not a big deal, but just a quality of life idea.

 

I've also found that once I jump to that specific item and see the level requirement, I'm back to "wait so what level am I relative to the requirement?" and have to scramble back to that crafting menu page again XD my goldfish memory

Edited June 19, 2023 by NekoPawtato (see edit history)

[Riamus]

13 minutes ago, NekoPawtato said:

I think my problem is I have no easy way to "go back" and look at the other items in the tier once I jump to that item's crafting screen. For example, if I want to see the level requirements of other items in that same tier, I have to go back to crafting skill menu, click on the category I want, click on the tier, and then click on the item. (And repeat for each item in that tier). It's not a big deal, but just a quality of life idea.

 

I've also found that once I jump to that specific item and see the level requirement, I'm back to "wait so what level am I relative to the requirement?" and have to scramble back to that crafting menu page again XD my goldfish memory

I agree that an easy way to go back and forth would be useful.  I think you'll probably get used to what things are after playing a while but I still think it would be a good QoL addition.

[Ralathar44]

I think I might actually have a good suggestion for the devs that most people would be happy with.  It'd help those with poor RNG where getting just a few more magazines matters, it shouldn't overly swamp those already having good RNG who are already swimming in magazines, and it makes intuitive sense.  It even helps the hardcore builder/farmer types a little.


Right new putting points into perks influences magazine drops.  But what if it also gave you a single knowledge point in that area?  For example if I took my first 7 points and put 3 into intellect for int 4 then skilled 2 points into Advances engineering and 2 points into locksmithing this would give me 4 points into Workstations and only be 1 magazine drop away from the forge.  That's not going to break the bank or get you workstations instantly,  and its not like the old system where poof, you suddenly know the things and its day 2, but it gives people who invest a headstart into getting those first crucial upgrades on top of the RNG magazine bonus which may or may not pan out.  You still need to find that first magazine to get the forge (which will prolly be at your trader in one of the defunct workstations!) and you'll still need the materials to build and use it.  And you'll have spent all of your initial points on non-combat stuff.  But the option is there for a day 1-2 forge if someone deeply specializes.. 

This still ultimately leaves most of the progression to RNG magazine drops, it doesn't stop you from having to go out and scavenge, it's not going to get you to 60 magazines, but its guaranteed measurable progress right out of the gate towards what you want.  If you want to dump those first 7 points by putting 4 into fortitude and then 3 into Brawler then you'll have 4/5 knuckles knowledge already good for quality 2 knuckles wrap with 1 magazine away from quality 3 and THEN increased magazines drops. 


Also lets use Attributes too!  Lets say every attribute point gives you a point of magazine knowledge for a random perk under that attribute.  AND every point into an attribute adds a tiny amount of magazine weighting for its perks.  Let's say 1/5th as much bonus weighting as a perk does.  So if you went agility 5, you'd get 5 magazine knowledge spread randomly between Bows, Handguns, Blades, and Armor and you'd get 1 perk point worth of increased magazine loots for all of them.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Ralathar44 (see edit history)

[FranticDan]

Request: Could we please have 'Quick and Perceptive' to affect wrenching, and 'Big and Fast' to affect mining tools?

[Jost Amman]

When you track a recipe, your current quest tracking disappears.

Would it be possible to have both active?

 

Tks 

[Yukkie]

We are on a server with 8-10 survivors and have had a great gaming experience so far. After 10 days, the water problem was resolved, and on the 20th, the food problem was resolved to some extent.

It's now day 30 and I'm glad I was able to purchase the crucible.

 

In multiplayer, the work can be shared and everyone is lively.

 

Playing offline certainly has more work to do and progress is slower, but considering you're the only survivor in an apocalypse world, it doesn't feel very easy to play.

[BFT2020]

I wonder if people are still cooking boiled meat and not realizing that they are losing half the hydration they can get from boiled water

27 minutes ago, semu said:

Wondering if the new A21 update changed wandering horde? Didn't see any commentary on it but:

 

Having a problem with a dedicated server, no wandering horde and little to no spawn of random zombies outside of poi's and quests.

 

Played several random generated maps on the main steam server but they were generated with the initial A21 build prior to the update.

Theya lways had multiple wandering horde and random zombies spawning.

 

Just set up a dedicated server: no wandering horde and very few random zombies. 

 

Can't see any line in the command interface regarding wandering horde.  Zombie spawn is enabled.

 

What are we missing to account for the massive difference in zombies?

 

All other settings were the same from both types.  We are hosting the server on this one map however.  The difference is significant.

 

 

I think you got a bad install.  No issues here with wandering hordes, I just recently had a zombie dog pack I had to deal with after finishing a T3 infection mission

[Gamida]

Have noticed that there are sometimes little "spats" about how the game should be and how it should be played between 2 - 8 members on here.

You can probably see where I am going with this lol.

If your timezones allow it why don't you play together on a server where you can discuss the game live (civilly)

That way you can share ideas and even try different playstyless out.

You'll either get to "walk in the other persons shoes" or end up having an all out PVP war.

Both should let you work out your feelings about the game

[Kosmic Kerman]

I am not a huge fan of the vehicle progression path so far. In past alphas I have skipped the minibike and waited until I found or bought the necessary schematics or bought the motorcycle outright. This usually occurred between Day 14 and Day 21. Considering how gas seems a little more scarce, I think sticking with the bicycle may probably still be the right call.  In A21, I am on day 32 and two magazines away from getting the motorcycle. I put a point in Grease Monkey around Day 21 and kept an eye for Gas Stations and car related POIs. I've also been checking traders and I've only seen a bicycle offered by Bob. In future playthroughs maybe this improves now that I know how slow the progress is. 

 

Here's why I am not a huge fan of vehicle progression being this slow. Having a motorcycle drastically changes my options. The motorcycle inventory size makes moving from a starter base to a new base much less of chore (moving bases, dealing with drop chests, and checking traders are my list favorite activities). It allows me to loot other towns or multiple POIs at once without having to worry about drop chests or inventory space. It also better allows me to explore the map. Clearly, I am far away from unlocking the gyrocopter which I typically have unlocked from looting or traders around Day 35  to Day 40  (I generally never put points in Intellect in past alphas, I was happy to rely on RNG for workstations and vehicles).  With the gyrocopter, I would really explore the map and reduce the chore of trader runs.

 

In my current save, my starting trader was in a biggish city so the slow progression hasn't been a deal breaker. But if my next save ends up starting in a small town, the slowness of the vehicle progression will be much more strongly felt. The lack of a proper vehicle is incredibly limiting in 7d2d and ultimately just increase the tedium of mid game. I think the drop chance of vehicle magazines needs tweaking and/or the total number of magazines for unlocks needs to be reduced.

 

Update: I have now unlocked the motorcycle on Day 32. In my opinion this is just too late. I am fully established in my starter base and a horde base (both built on the same POI next to a trader) that will continue to work with minor tweaks and upgrades well past the point I get bored with this save.  

Edited June 19, 2023 by Kosmic Kerman (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

10 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

So far in my two runs my workbench was up on day 21 in my completely unspec'd run with no trader quests.  My spec'd run with trader quests is on day 5 and already has 7/10 magazines needed for it.  Prolly on track for a 7 day workbench, 10 at worst.  1 point in advanced engineering, 1 in lock picking (also raises workstation magazine chances!).  This run I've pretty much just been straight looting and doing POIs starting out.  Though I spawned right near a POI with a zombie dog and while I killed it I've been infected for 5 days straight, currently at 42% infection.   FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU  lol.

EDIT: Achieved Workbench on Day 5, but Oh Jesus it got wwwoooorrsssee.  How am I still alive? :D. That is literally the most hp I'm allowed to have through the injuries haha.

s://imgur.com/wcNa

 

Hopefully you are having a blast.  Some of my most enjoyable playthroughs are those where I was barely surviving... 😁

 

Looks like you are playing on the Navezgane map as well?  Progression is also noticeably slower on that map.

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[doughphunghus]

Playing on pure vanilla settings on latest experimental... i like it "a lot" so I'm only posting Some a21 "negative" input with details/thoughts for brevity, I'm on "day 9", still in the forest biome.

 

- Doors: when the first "hole" appears, its always centered right at head level for most zeds (who also stand mostly right in the middle of the door while breaking it). Ive found myself using doors as natural barricades to get easy head shots. Maybe move the hole off center on some doors?

- helmet water filter: i found one in my first day in loot. Yeah "i could have chosen not to use it" but i do feel looting it (and early) should be nerfed somehow. I think it should be "buy only" and/or crafted only and nerfed as a mod so its not 100% safe to drink with. Maybe 5-8% dysentery chance.

 

- murky water: i found a lot of this on loot. I just started drinking it without boiling and got quite a few in me (like 10?) before dysentery kicked in. I feel that the dysentery "chance" should be upped a little, to discourage drinking more, but its been that way for forever so ... maybe make it like meat where its 5 bottles of murky water boils to 1 boiled water?

 

- player created doors: the health on a first tier wooden door is 1000 hp. While the early zeds were able to do a lot of damage, it was super easy to just repair it "whenever" while they beat on it. I feel dropping it a little might make it less OP.

 

- Food: im finding a lot of food. I have not had a food issue its so much.

non a21 micro complaint: it's always kinda weird to open a box or a cabinet and find a open "bowl" of perfectly good food. And also weird to just put that in storage/backpack (like a plate of bacon and eggs). I know its just graphics but the only "feel good fix" i can think of other than changing the graphics (as you do craft them, and then it looks/feels good as a bowl/plate) is removing them from loot. I know its always been this way . Kinda like the "pie" doesn't seem to come in a dish...its just a pie.. it feels like it should be in a box or saran wrap.

 

The log item: hitting trees/blocks gives ...planks. But i have to... craft a log from .....planks?

 

Generic micro complaint on the UI: when using a workstation, having the "craft time" or "cook time" be on top of the crafted item makes it hard to see. Maybe move the time below/above the item? Example: cooking eggs: its white eggs with white cook time on top of them.
 

a21 "positive" input: theres a lot to like, my faves so far other than "graphics update" and "new blocks" and pois, which are all great:

- the occasional feral early game. yes!

- multiple doors opening when hitting the keyrack And  i have seen 1 door sometimes open/close based on... err.. a spot that can be stepped on? Good stuff. It looked like a zed opened a door which was cool.
- new sounds. Thanks!

- progression/items/etc: feels good, esp with the "i can sometimes loot good stuff". It slows things down a bit but not severely, always something to work towards.

- all the injuries when getting hit: i like it.

Edited June 19, 2023 by doughphunghus (see edit history)

[Kosmic Kerman]

1 hour ago, doughphunghus said:

Playing on pure vanilla settings on latest experimental... i like it "a lot" so I'm only posting Some a21 "negative" input with details/thoughts for brevity, I'm on "day 9", still in the forest biome.

 

- helmet water filter: i found one in my first day in loot. Yeah "i could have chosen not to use it" but i do feel looting it (and early) should be nerfed somehow. I think it should be "buy only" and/or crafted only and nerfed as a mod so its not 100% safe to drink with. Maybe 5-8% dysentery chance.

 

- murky water: i found a lot of this on loot. I just started drinking it without boiling and got quite a few in me (like 10?) before dysentery kicked in. I feel that the dysentery "chance" should be upped a little, to discourage drinking more, but its been that way for forever so ... maybe make it like meat where its 5 bottles of murky water boils to 1 boiled water?

 

- player created doors: the health on a first tier wooden door is 1000 hp. While the early zeds were able to do a lot of damage, it was super easy to just repair it "whenever" while they beat on it. I feel dropping it a little might make it less OP.

 

 

* Water Purifier - I don't know what the drop chances are but let's say hypothetically its 1%. Just because you happened to find one in a game on day 1 doesn't mean there should be a zero chance for it to drop.  The first time I saw the water purifier mod in was in the late day 20s when it has no real use for me. If it ruins your playthrough don't use it or eliminate it from your game. This game is largely driven by RNG, there needs to be the chance of a rare drop to spice things up.

 

* Murky water - I think the drop rate is mostly fine because you need water to make glue and it rewards people for opening every single loot container. At Day 9 you haven't experienced the true need for duct tape yet as what you can craft is pretty limited at that point.  

 

* Doors - Doors can no longer be reinforced so while 10 wood does take you further in this Alpha  you can no longer increase the health of doors by reinforcing with iron. It mostly balances out.  You also need forged iron for iron hatches which I think also balances out the strength of the doors early game since iron hatches aren't as practical any more.

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Kosmic Kerman (see edit history)

[Uncle Al]

2 hours ago, doughphunghus said:

 

- helmet water filter: i found one in my first day in loot. Yeah "i could have chosen not to use it" but i do feel looting it (and early) should be nerfed somehow. I think it should be "buy only" and/or crafted only and nerfed as a mod so its not 100% safe to drink with. Maybe 5-8% dysentery chance.

 

- murky water: i found a lot of this on loot. I just started drinking it without boiling and got quite a few in me (like 10?) before dysentery kicked in. I feel that the dysentery "chance" should be upped a little, to discourage drinking more, but its been that way for forever so ... maybe make it like meat where its 5 bottles of murky water boils to 1 boiled water?

 

 

Funnily enough I've found one on day 2 in my latest playthough. All it's really meant is I haven't bothered building a dew collector yet, and I'm on day 6.

 

It's worth noting that murky water only gives about 12 hydration, rather than 20 for water and 24 for teas, plus their other benefits, so it's useful having the filter to top out your hydration but it's still useful finding water and making teas and glue.

 

In fact I've recently found the wasteland treasures book that allows making pure water, so the filter is going to be mostly redundant as pure water's stamina regen and efficient digestion buffs are too good to pass up. At 60 hydration a bottle, hydration is a total non issue once you find that recipe.

[Ralathar44]

2 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

Hopefully you are having a blast.  Some of my most enjoyable playthroughs are those where I was barely surviving... 😁

 

Looks like you are playing on the Navezgane map as well?  Progression is also noticeably slower on that map.

 

Overall I'm having a blast.  Navegane.  My fort/agility playthrough is at day 25ish and got its arse beat at first.  I rolled the int/percept build n the post/screenshot  to take another shot at reproing people's magazine or progression issues with another data point playing it more quest/trader heavy like man other players do.   Outside of the injury/infection struggle buss though its been an absolutely smooth first 5 days.

[meilodasreh]

46 minutes ago, Ralathar44 said:

got its arse beat at first.

Yeah the first days are really a struggle now.

On the second start I was thrown into nowhere in a generated world,

only 2 pois in the vicinity (one tier 1 with really nothing useful, and one tier 3 (+desert multiplier) that was waay above what I could handle at that point.

I had to go almost 2km to get to the trader (nothing but forest/desert borderland on the way)

Having arrived there and spending 1st night on a small roofing for a tractor,

I was literally down to 0 water within the 1st quest, and therefore wasn't even able to raise my weak hand to destroy the block where the quest satchel was hidden behind.

 

I didn't die in the end. Just because of pure luck.

 

It didn't feel rewarding when I overcame it.

It felt like unfair and unbalanced, my survival being pure luck. 

You find enough water, good for you...you do not, meh, just die one or two times at first, who cares, that's life in the apocalypse.

 

As someone with (slightly) over a thousand hours in the game, and therefore more or less know exactly how to get things going in the game,

I'm really wondering what a newbie player must get as a first impression of A21.

 

If I was new to the game, I probably would have turned away and say "no thanks, not a game for me".

I know the devs are aiming for a bigger challenge in survival aspects, but I'd say they got it a lil too far.

 

Maybe add one free dew collector in the lower end difficulty settings, to keep things more accessible for a newbie player would help?

 

 

 

 

[Aldranon]

IMO, A21 will steal a portion of the Project Zomboid population as 7D2D now has an edge to it.

I've died twice so far and both times I got shredded by my own carelessness and A20 thinking.

 

I dodged a pack of 5-6 zombie dogs on day 3 or 4 and came back later and killed all that were still in the area.  That was probably careless too... and I would do it again!

Great, great game!

[sillls]

I got a fetch mission for a hotel. Big place. So I scouted around the building to see the best entry point. Imagine my surprise when I noticed that the package I needed was next to an outer wall. Even better that the wall was made of wood. 😀

So... I made a hole in the wall, got the package and was on my way. 

The zombies that I wakeup thought that I was being rude and insisted that I stay for dinner, but I politely informed them that I have a big lunch and had to run. See ya!  😂

 

I'm sure that I passed up some good loot and maybe I might go back sooner or latter. But these places are full of loot stashes. So I don't think I'm going to mis it. 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by sillls
Wording. (see edit history)

[Javabean867]

4 hours ago, doughphunghus said:

The log item: hitting trees/blocks gives ...planks. But i have to... craft a log from .....planks?

Hitting trees gives you wood, not planks.  I just assume that you are digging through your stock pile of wood to find a suitable log for things.

Same with all of the other materials like lead, brass and such.

[hiloboys]

1 hour ago, sillls said:

I got a fetch mission for a hotel. Big place. So I scouted around the building to see the best entry point. Imagine my surprise when I noticed that the package I needed was next to an outer wall. Even better that the wall was made of wood. 😀

So... I made a hole in the wall, got the package and was on my way. 

The zombies that I wakeup thought that I was being rude and insisted that I stay for dinner, but I politely informed them that I have a big lunch and had to run. See ya!  😂

 

I'm sure that I passed up some good loot and maybe I might go back sooner or latter. But these places are full of loot stashes. So I don't think I'm going to mis it. 

 

Thats part of the mission! Were scouts retrieving a package not paid to clear out a place.

[retrogamingdev]

2 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

Yeah the first days are really a struggle now.

On the second start I was thrown into nowhere in a generated world,

only 2 pois in the vicinity (one tier 1 with really nothing useful, and one tier 3 (+desert multiplier) that was waay above what I could handle at that point.

I had to go almost 2km to get to the trader (nothing but forest/desert borderland on the way)

Having arrived there and spending 1st night on a small roofing for a tractor,

I was literally down to 0 water within the 1st quest, and therefore wasn't even able to raise my weak hand to destroy the block where the quest satchel was hidden behind.

 

I didn't die in the end. Just because of pure luck.

 

It didn't feel rewarding when I overcame it.

It felt like unfair and unbalanced, my survival being pure luck. 

You find enough water, good for you...you do not, meh, just die one or two times at first, who cares, that's life in the apocalypse.

 

As someone with (slightly) over a thousand hours in the game, and therefore more or less know exactly how to get things going in the game,

I'm really wondering what a newbie player must get as a first impression of A21.

 

If I was new to the game, I probably would have turned away and say "no thanks, not a game for me".

I know the devs are aiming for a bigger challenge in survival aspects, but I'd say they got it a lil too far.

 

Maybe add one free dew collector in the lower end difficulty settings, to keep things more accessible for a newbie player would help?

 

 

 

 

 

I haven't really had much trouble. If you follow the quest lines, you will be at a trader before you know it. Scraping enough stuff together to sell for food/water isn't that hard. Your specific example sounds like an extremely unlucky RNG situation, which will happen time to time. Noobs, yeah - they will probably die from it, but I think a lot of the game will prove challenging. It is a hard game, meant to be a learning process. No big time guardrails to keep you safe. 

 

That said, I have always felt slightly annoyed by how much you do have to eat (and drink) in the game. A slider in the game setup that decreases or increases the rate of food/water consumption would be a good idea. Just one more layer to really defining how your game goes. 

6 hours ago, doughphunghus said:

- Doors: when the first "hole" appears, its always centered right at head level for most zeds (who also stand mostly right in the middle of the door while breaking it). Ive found myself using doors as natural barricades to get easy head shots. Maybe move the hole off center on some doors?

 

I love the new doors and the ability to shoot through them. Scavaging houses is more exciting with it. I sometimes will run in, shut myself in the bathroom and then wait for them to start busting in. But, instead of just being stuck, I can take some shots at them to weaken or kill before they get to me. 

 

But, I do agree here - it would be a great addition if the holes were slightly up to chance. Sometimes up top, sometimes mid, sometimes lower. Of course, that would take more effort, but something to consider if you have the time. Any time you can add these small sort of randomizations helps with the immersion. 

[hiloboys]

Anyone else having issues with quest rewards for Tier III / IV? I havent had a good reward the entire time. It feels like what its offering me is Tier II at best. (wooden bow 2nd rank, skill books, 25 steel, Leather glove 2nd rank) All for a really hard Tier IV mission I just  completed, and all the rewards ive gotten so far have been similar including back in tier 3. It feels like the quest npc tier rewards after 2 go down the hill. (Only tested Trader Joel's quests though havent gone up a tier in the other traders missions)

[sillls]

I wanted to ask. Why the price went up on water filters? 

The first time I paid for one, it was priced at 1500 Dukes. Then went down to 1475 Dukes, once I get a traders perk. 

1.  But then after the update, it jumps up to almost 3000. What is up with that? 

2.  Also, would it be possible to make it so a player made things such as a workbench can be moved without first placing a base block? 

It would be more practical this way. 

Thanks. 

[icehot]

31 minutes ago, hiloboys said:

Anyone else having issues with quest rewards for Tier III / IV? I havent had a good reward the entire time. It feels like what its offering me is Tier II at best. (wooden bow 2nd rank, skill books, 25 steel, Leather glove 2nd rank) All for a really hard Tier IV mission I just  completed, and all the rewards ive gotten so far have been similar including back in tier 3. It feels like the quest npc tier rewards after 2 go down the hill. (Only tested Trader Joel's quests though havent gone up a tier in the other traders missions)

 

Yeah same with T5 too, not tried the T6's yet though.

[Slingblade2040]

New world day 5.  Warrior difficulty, jog day speed. Tools as weapons. Build 317.

 

Noticed the debuffs occuring way less which is nice but considering how often ive been hit and wearing barely any armor seems like they need to be looked at, still haven't bothered with dew collector since water hasn't been a problem, iron tools are at quality 5 since going full tools for melee. Did a treck into wasteland and after 30 or so cars didn't find a tool or weapon don't know if bad rng or secret nerf either way happy with that since I want there to be more of an emphasis on crafting instead of always finding stuff in loot, quest reward or trader. 

 

Pipe machine gun is still OP and still can't understand why it hasn't been nerfed a bit more. It's insane how long atleast in alpha 20 a pipe machine can carry you.

 

Do enjoy finding ferals earlier on and the infestation quests are still fun just feel the ammo found in them got nerfed a bit same with the ammo reward from trader.

 

So far much like previous alphas I feel that crafting is an after thought when it comes to armor, tools, mods, weapons and even ammo and the same can be said about farming and cooking. Mind you all of this is for single player and Obviously doesn't count towards MP where they actually have those issues.

[Old Crow]

Loaded up a single player game last night, 200% loot abundance just to test. Raided the Working Stiff store near Jen's old location, and came out with way more weapon-oriented magazines than I did tool-oriented magazines - and not a single Forge Ahead magazine. Seems a bit off, yeah?