A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Renathras said:

Yeah, I'm a really visual person.  I've long held that I can play old games and games with bad graphics as long as they are consistent in what they're trying to portray (and have good gameplay and story).  So when I see the steel knuckles, I think "This thing can harvest animals because of the knives on the knuckles".  Then when I see the stone spear, I'm like "This thing should harvest animals really really well" because (for anyone who knows about skinning or preparing animal meats) spears like the stone spear tip were used by ancient civilizations for exactly this purpose.  Longish, flat, and jagged edged blades.  It's also why the stone axe makes sense in this purpose.  You could do it with a fireman axe, but it would be more difficult since the weight is off and the hand motion you're going for are relatively short, quick, straight rubbing strokes, whereas a fireman axe is weighted for breaking through walls and doors and such to get at trapped people to save them.

I'm not sure "balance trumps reason" is always a good policy, though.  Not to mention nothing is perfectly balanced anyway.    I mean, we could argue that the HUNTING KNIFE should be the best animal harvesting weapon in the game, meaning even players using machetes would need to carry a hunting knife on their person for maximum efficiency when hunting.  Indeed, the machete's shape and weight would actually make it a poor skinning tool because the length.  With the spear, you could hold it just below the head and make your strokes, while with the machete, you're doing so with a much shorter lever arm and a much longer cutting edge, which would make it less useful for that, I'd think.  Not to mention, as a person that likes the hunting knife's attack animation better (for some reason, it's WAY easier for me to get headshots with, even though it's a narrow collision box, because it's straight down the middle of my screen unlike the machete), I honestly wouldn't mind this all that much...

Same with axes.  When my eyes see that steel axe, I would THINK that would be the most damaging weapon in the game.  Think about getting hit with any of the game's weapons and the only one that comes close to the raw damage the steel axe would do would be the steel sledgehammer.  The steel axe has the steel sledgehammer's weight (or close to it), with not one but THREE cutting edges at slightly different insets added to it.  This should cause TREMENDOUS physical damage to anything it hits, first from the blunt force of weight, which would be similar to the steel sledgehammer's, but then from the slash, since no amount of zombie flesh is going to stop that much momentum with a bladed edge until it cuts its way out the other side of whatever limb or area it hits.  And considering that war axes were a more commonly used weapon than warhammers, complete with warriors training in their use specifically for combat, I think that's all the reason we need to see it deserves its own skill line.  Hammers and wrenches less so, they just make good makeshift clubs.  Though I think I'd rather get dinged in the head with a baseball bat than a pipe wrench, personally...

I do wish we had more Swiss army knives.  Swiss army knives are fun in games, but developers avoid them like the plague.  Trading versatility for a bit of power. 

And yeah, "group friendly" skill as in "things you can do for the group".  Every now and then I'll play a world with up to 4 friends (VERY rarely 5), and we tend to run into the problem that one or two people in the group feel kind of worthless to the group if we each choose a single skill line to go down.  And the person that picks Intellect is the most valuable to the group, but tends to feel like they have no good combat capability because batons and turrets aren't really like most of the other weapon systems in the game.

But, as I said, I'm not sure the solution other than maybe moving medicine to Fortitude and gardening to Agility or something...

 

We don't have problems like this in our MP group. Everyone is valuable when he brings home new schematics or books for other players (we usually allot book series to specific players so a player has first pick on "his" books). Or weapons/armor/mods that someone else needs.

 

The INT player can be invaluable on horde night if his turrets are used well. But thats beside the point. The game has a diversity in its classes that in my opinion helps replayability. Going into INT feels different than going into agility, whether in SP or in MP.

 

3 hours ago, Renathras said:

.

Granted, I don't expect any changes (though the spear with harvesting would be a cool one...!), just these are things I've noticed over time playing with the game's visuals don't match up to what my brain expectations of them are.  Or, to put it another way, where the visuals are kind of telling a different story, which kind of misleads the player as to what they should do.  As you say, if the spear was just a pointy stick, it obviously wouldn't be an issue because a simple point isn't a great flesh/meat harvesting shape.

EDIT:  Don't get me wrong, I still absolutely love this game.  Just little things here and there I'd change.

Another is the loot system.  I know a lot of people hated the old system, but it's weird to me that so few zombies can be looted, Oblivion/Skyrim style (especially ones that are clearly wearing/carrying usable game items, like the Lumberjack boots and jeans or the Cop pistols).  While some of this can be handwaved as "the ones they were wearing were too torn up/destroyed to be useful", at least for the guns, you'd think there'd be some parts to salvage.  And the big yellow backpack drop is just...weird...vs the old way.  Though I get it's because in Alpha 15 or whenever that change was made the bodies would decompose, causing people to lose loot if they weren't able to quickly gather it all during horde nights.

 

The old way was horrible in my opinion: After a horde night looting all the bags took ages.

And a lot of players farmed zombies for that loot (they turned on lots of camp fires and forges to get screamers). Especially the latter was the reason the zombie loots bags got removed AFAIK.  

That people would lose loot was never a reason. On the contrary, the decomposition was short to lure reckless players to jump down and try to loot during the horde night. 😉

 

 

3 hours ago, Renathras said:

.

I'm also really excited to see the power restoration mission.  The idea of objective based missions that would be a realistic thing someone would be doing in a zombie apocalypse sounds neat to me.  Something other than "kill all zombies" or "get this random package we stashed in this random place".  Makes me excited on what the future of missions might be...

 

 

[Matt115]

28 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

 

The old way was horrible in my opinion: After a horde night looting all the bags took ages.

And a lot of players farmed zombies for that loot (they turned on lots of camp fires and forges to get screamers). Especially the latter was the reason the zombie loots bags got removed AFAIK.  

That people would lose loot was never a reason. On the contrary, the decomposition was short to lure reckless players to jump down and try to loot during the horde night. 😉

 

 

 

 

Honestly maybe this problem could be solved by added "backpack" zombies-  just zombies with backpack- 3 types: hobo, survivor and soldier. Only them could be looted- more realistic that yellow backpack and quiet rare- and maybe add them option to not dissapair after being killed 

14 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

Confirmed, alpha 26 will have another rework of the zombies...

Damn. I hope my grandgrandgrandchildren will play in 7DTD Beta 1.0 someday

Edited September 26, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[friendlyx3]

10 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Did you test the native version with vulkan as well? I don't know the state of Nvidias vulkan support, but I play with vulkan on Linux with an AMD card and while I can't say anything about the relative performance I can say that vulkan can be used natively too, you don't necessarily need wine for that.

 

No I actually haven't tried 7dtd on Linux. Seems crazy considering I'm the one asking about it lol. I'm just going to wait til alpha 20 to mess around with it I think. I like Linux a lot but I would like to play on whatever OS would give me the most fps.

[Darklegend222]

On 9/17/2021 at 5:16 PM, bdubyah said:

Would be faster than walking, save stam/food, have storage, and could cross water much easier than swimming. And as stated, it is basically done. So why not?

I'm genuinely curious as to how this would be best utilized. Navezgane only has one lake that is worthy of raft-crossing and it's in such a remote position that getting to the either side yields tier 1 POIs. So.. not really good to utilize it in Nav.

 

I've also been playing the current RWG and there's hardly any lakes, just small patches of water here and there.. so if the new a20 RWG actually has lakes that are plentiful and connect over vast distances like in a16.4, i would 100% use the raft

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Darklegend222 (see edit history)

[hotpoon]

9 hours ago, meganoth said:

The old way was horrible in my opinion: After a horde night looting all the bags took ages.

 

 

 

 

Oh c'mon, It took like 30 seconds, and was fun.

I've since found a mod that removes the yellow bags that the zombies poop out, and instead makes them all lootable, with specific loot (like bandages on the nurses etc), just like how it used to be...and honestly I think it increased the fun factor in the game by 75%. 

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, hotpoon said:

Oh c'mon, It took like 30 seconds, and was fun.

 

Lets say it is a mixed feeling. Like eating cake is surely fun but eating too much of overly sweet cake makes you wish you didn't succumb to your cravings. I was happy it was gone also because I valued looting in POIs (the exploring/adventuring part of the game) and this felt just like being Pavlov's Dog and TFP continually ringing a bell that instead should have been ringing when I see a POI in the distance.

 

I would even liken that mini-game (and after horde nights it was a complete mini-game) to cookie clicker games in some ways. There are people who actually want lots of brainless activity in a loop in their games and can even play it to the exclusion of everything else. I like games to provide challenges and decisions and not dull my senses with loot I get by clicking on hundreds of icons lying around. There are enough repetitive "farming" activities in the game, I don't need another one so basic that it sometimes felt like cheap manipulation

 

When playing "The Outer Worlds" I get a similar feeling, there is so much loot thrown about piecemeal that I got frustrated. Fun game, but pulled down by this mis-feature.

 

1 hour ago, hotpoon said:

I've since found a mod that removes the yellow bags that the zombies poop out, and instead makes them all lootable, with specific loot (like bandages on the nurses etc), just like how it used to be...and honestly I think it increased the fun factor in the game by 75%. 

 

Good for you. This game is moddable to provide people with the ability to tune it to their play style. I play the usual overhauls of 7D2D and some of them have turned zombie loot up, some only moderately, some even full to A16 standards. So I can compare as well and thank you, but no thank you, some of those overly sweet cakes are too much for me.

 

 

[Matt115]

4 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Can we add more animations for rol-players? So when we respawn we can turn off the alarm clock. dress, shave, have breakfast, take a facemask and go on to find the backpack? OMG That will be so realistic and immersive you wouldn't believe it! 

 

Please and thank you.

Well i don't think a lot of player need this. And it could be quiet annoying waste of time- like take on shoes need time, eating need more time etc. this would in some sitations make game a lot of slower for non rolplayers. Well in battle royale this have a sens- use quicker bandage or waste more time using first kit. But animations in 7dtd are good enough

[MechanicalLens]

1 hour ago, Blake_ said:

Can we add more animations for rol-players? So when we respawn we can turn off the alarm clock. dress, shave, have breakfast, take a facemask and go on to find the backpack? OMG That will be so realistic and immersive you wouldn't believe it! 

 

Please and thank you.

 

You forgot visiting the outhouse

[Blake_]

1 hour ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

You forgot visiting the outhouse

No need if you can hold it until after backpack retrieval. Good design right there. If you make a mess you might wanna ask for a Fetch and Cleaning quest from the traders.

[MechanicalLens]

8 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

No need if you can hold it until after backpack retrieval. Good design right there. If you make a mess you might wanna ask for a Fetch and Cleaning quest from the traders.

 

No need when you can collect all of your gear and then do your business in your backpack. Just saying.

Edit: And then hand it over to Rekt.

[Khalagar]

On 9/25/2021 at 5:37 PM, Adam the Waster said:

So how come they went for it?

cuz it does look very silly

 

Because businesses.  For quite literally every single question you have, you need to immediately ask and answer the question "Who is going to pay for this?" question. With TFP the question will be "Is this going to generate enough profit to cover the dev time spent implementing it?"

 

So minor annoying things are usually back burner issues that devs might "sneak in" time to do, but things like adding dozens of unique marks for zombies or adding in dozens of new zombie types is well within the "This will require actual effort and we will need to evaluate time investment vs return on investment" etc etc etc.  And especially when a company is getting bigger like TFP where you will have dedicated teams for some tasks who aren't getting input from everyone else, and developers don't get the final say  / much say at all in decisions and the "money men" of the company mostly just say "do X" and they just do what they are told to

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Hi @faatal, I remember you were, among many other things, also optimizing lights/shadows... I'd like you to quickly read something that a player on Steam posted recently, which maybe will help you find out more bottlenecks/issues related to that:

Hope this helps. 

 

Isn't 2-3 am a period where there is a little more light (and then turns black again until end of night)? Maybe the light goes over a threshold, shadows are calculated again and while they are nearly invisible they take the same amount of CPU cycles as if it was a sunny day.

 

Anyway, shadows and lots of trees always were a FPS killer and I'm not sure Faatal can do much about that since shadows have a large CPU impact in all games I know. And other games can cope somewhat by never planting too many shadow-heavy objects in a scene. But in 7D2D the player always can.

 

[Jost Amman]

2 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Isn't 2-3 am a period where there is a little more light (and then turns black again until end of night)? Maybe the light goes over a threshold, shadows are calculated again and while they are nearly invisible they take the same amount of CPU cycles as if it was a sunny day.

 

Anyway, shadows and lots of trees always were a FPS killer and I'm not sure Faatal can do much about that since shadows have a large CPU impact in all games I know. And other games can cope somewhat by never planting too many shadow-heavy objects in a scene. But in 7D2D the player always can.

Probably. But there's a lot more going on there judging from what that player reported.

There's also something with the Forge, and he doesn't get FPS drops during Blood Moon... weird.

[meganoth]

32 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Probably. But there's a lot more going on there judging from what that player reported.

There's also something with the Forge, and he doesn't get FPS drops during Blood Moon... weird.

Not really, he named the forge as example of a light source. The important thing there is that even a "tiny" light source like a forge produces shadows that tank FPS when it shines into a dense forest. Which isn't really surprising. Especially since lights at a low elevation produce looong shadows whereas the sun does this only at sunset and sunrise

 

[Jost Amman]

27 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Not really, he named the forge as example of a light source. The important thing there is that even a "tiny" light source like a forge produces shadows that tank FPS when it shines into a dense forest. Which isn't really surprising. Especially since lights at a low elevation produce looong shadows whereas the sun does this only at sunset and sunrise

So you're saying there's little to nothing to do because shadows always give problems in games?

[meganoth]

53 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

So you're saying there's little to nothing to do because shadows always give problems in games?

 

I don*t know how much shadows are optimized already but I'm sure Faatal knows about this because it has been brought up lots of times. It IS known that shadows are among the top FPS killers of this and some other games. It is known that tree farms produce FPS problems.

And the worst case scenario with shadows is when lots of shadows of complicated objects (like trees) generate long drawn out shadows into the distance (like at sunset or generally when the light source is low). There is nothing weird about this case.

 

If we consider that 7d2d is resource hungry like a freshly released AAA game and that player has an old GTX970 (released in 2014) and probably a CPU from the same time I find his experience fully in line with what we know about the game. He is lucky that all other options can be turned to high/ultra with such an old PC.

 

Lots of trees near your base got much better lately but I don't expect the resource hog made by a forest of trees to ever vanish completely.

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[ssrjazz]

3 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

So you're saying there's little to nothing to do because shadows always give problems in games?

Short answer: Yes, shadows are computationally expensive (hard).

 

Longer answer (from 2015, but still valid): In Video Games Why Are Shadows So Hard To Render

[Nuketown]

Can we craft firearms in A20? 

[Adam the Waster]

14 hours ago, Khalagar said:

 

Because businesses.  For quite literally every single question you have, you need to immediately ask and answer the question "Who is going to pay for this?" question. With TFP the question will be "Is this going to generate enough profit to cover the dev time spent implementing it?"

 

So minor annoying things are usually back burner issues that devs might "sneak in" time to do, but things like adding dozens of unique marks for zombies or adding in dozens of new zombie types is well within the "This will require actual effort and we will need to evaluate time investment vs return on investment" etc etc etc.  And especially when a company is getting bigger like TFP where you will have dedicated teams for some tasks who aren't getting input from everyone else, and developers don't get the final say  / much say at all in decisions and the "money men" of the company mostly just say "do X" and they just do what they are told to

i would agree but at the same time the Zombies have been through..

Im not even sure how many redos, and Plus the models aren't bad im not saying scrap cuz i love them them, Just clean them up so they don't all look like there guts have been torn out (because seeing 10 solders with guts everywhere looks stupid) , just place the vest over it, now i know its not as simple as "LMAO just photoshop it". but they could just do a little change


Hell maybe even uses the guts for the new gore system for when you shoot the chest, Broken hands for arm cripples, Broken jaws for Knuckle rub attacks, etc

[Renathras]

On 9/25/2021 at 3:03 PM, Matt115 said:

Okay : i will try to explain how to work. knifes have tiers - better tier better weapon. So machete is rly good knife. Axes are more tools in this game  that weapons . So if you had axes so powefull that sledhammer ( but without armor piercing for example) nobody wanted to use sledhammer because this would be waste of resources and slot in eq. So they were forced to do in this way to avoid "total war syndrome" - a lot of things in game but players use only few of them

Yes...but also no, right?  Think about it, the Sledgehammer also has the wonderful "punt" that can throw zombies back away from you, while the axe would lack that.  The knife argument only works until you realize the steel knuckles also function as knives.

I understand what you mean about needing reasons for people to use other weapons, but I don't think that's necessarily as rigid in these cases as you make it out to be, per se.  After all, people still use machetes even though the steel knuckles can also be used for skinning.  Mainly because some people like the machete and bleeds and others prefer being able to...well...punch zombies in the face (which also has the added benefit of them not being able to infect you!)

On 9/25/2021 at 6:56 PM, meganoth said:

The old way was horrible in my opinion: After a horde night looting all the bags took ages.

And a lot of players farmed zombies for that loot (they turned on lots of camp fires and forges to get screamers). Especially the latter was the reason the zombie loots bags got removed AFAIK. 

On the Int stuff...to each their own, I guess.  I just think that every tree should have SOMETHING useful to the group/gathering/crafting.  Right now, Agility and LARGELY Perception (other than hunting) don't have that group utility.  They're "selfish DPS", basically.  Which is sad because those two are the lines with the weapon types I like the most.  Though shotguns are growing on me a bit...

On the loot, though: The problem is, while HORDE NIGHTS this makes sense, non-horde nights, you can clear dozens of houses and never get a loot drop.  Back when every zombie had loot, even if a lot of it was junk, it made normal zombie encounters a lot more interesting.  "Now that I've killed these 5 zombies here, let's see if they have anything interesting on them..."  Now it's just something to kill and get XP from and try to find loot in loot rooms, since every house is now a dungeon...

It also doesn't help that a lot of times, I'll get that shiny yellow bag to drop only to open it for a can of sham or something.  It'd be one thing if the loot bags consistently gave great loot, but they often do not.  "Oh, look...a glass jar and some coffee beans" is not exactly exciting.  Especially since you used to get that just from taking out average cheerleaders.  : )  If it was more of a "we're going to only have 1 drop out of 25 zombie kills, but it will give you loot worth 25 zombies", that might be different.  But it's often the same thing you would get from a single zombie back in the day.

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, Renathras said:

Yes...but also no, right?  Think about it, the Sledgehammer also has the wonderful "punt" that can throw zombies back away from you, while the axe would lack that.  The knife argument only works until you realize the steel knuckles also function as knives.

 

This is a balance discussion and has to take everything into account including the ability branch it is found in. While the sledge is great with damage and punt it is very slow. If you are not sure you will hit consistently a faster weapon will better suit you. Against single opponents the stagger effect of axe or club in combination with faster hitting is equivalent. Against multiple opponents most people change to a gun or if possible get some distance between them and the zombie.

 

A better axe (especially with perks) would not only compete with the somewhat overpowered sledge and club but would also be another argument for people to always use strength and complain about other abilities being underwhelming. When axes were better in previous alphas a lot of people (including madmole himself) used the axe because the combination of a useful melee weapon together with saving a slot was just too good to be true.

 

4 hours ago, Renathras said:

I understand what you mean about needing reasons for people to use other weapons, but I don't think that's necessarily as rigid in these cases as you make it out to be, per se.  After all, people still use machetes even though the steel knuckles can also be used for skinning.  Mainly because some people like the machete and bleeds and others prefer being able to...well...punch zombies in the face (which also has the added benefit of them not being able to infect you!)

 

People use the machete when they spec into agility (sometimes even grudgingly 😉), and sometimes for skinning because it gives much better results than a knuckle. Personally, unless I spec into agility I never use knifes for skinning but an axe, because I save a slot with that.

 

4 hours ago, Renathras said:

On the Int stuff...to each their own, I guess.  I just think that every tree should have SOMETHING useful to the group/gathering/crafting.  Right now, Agility and LARGELY Perception (other than hunting) don't have that group utility.  They're "selfish DPS", basically.  Which is sad because those two are the lines with the weapon types I like the most.  Though shotguns are growing on me a bit...

 

If mining is a gathering perk benefical to the group I don't see why the wrenching perk is not.

 

4 hours ago, Renathras said:

On the loot, though: The problem is, while HORDE NIGHTS this makes sense, non-horde nights, you can clear dozens of houses and never get a loot drop. 

 

Lets savour this surprising statement 😉. You clear dozens of houses with each room filled to the hilt with loot containers (cupboards, trash piles, boxes, book cases) and you complain you don't get any loot!? 😂

 

I know this isn't what you wanted to say. But you will have a hard time explaining why the beaker found in a box 2 meters behind a zombie doesn't count, only the beaker on the zombie himself

 

4 hours ago, Renathras said:

Back when every zombie had loot, even if a lot of it was junk, it made normal zombie encounters a lot more interesting.  "Now that I've killed these 5 zombies here, let's see if they have anything interesting on them..."  Now it's just something to

kill and get XP from and try to find loot in loot rooms, since every house is now a dungeon...

 

A well filled dungeon, a marked contrast to the houses in alpha15 where zombies still had loot. The small difference is, you still kill the zombies for the loot that is **behind* them instead of **in** them and you can't exploit the zombies as a loot delivery service. I fully agree with you that zombies with loot also have advantages, but the good has to be compared to the bad and there were a few big BADs on the zombie loot train bonanza feature.

 

4 hours ago, Renathras said:

It also doesn't help that a lot of times, I'll get that shiny yellow bag to drop only to open it for a can of sham or something.  It'd be one thing if the loot bags consistently gave great loot, but they often do not.  "Oh, look...a glass jar and some coffee beans" is not exactly exciting.  Especially since you used to get that just from taking out average cheerleaders.  : )  If it was more of a "we're going to only have 1 drop out of 25 zombie kills, but it will give you loot worth 25 zombies", that might be different.  But it's often the same thing you would get from a single zombie back in the day.

 

Like I said previously, loot that was on zombies in A15 is now found in houses, and the balance was kept that way. Secondly players have brain cells too, how long would it take for them to find out that that 25th zombie is just as valuable as the 25 zombies they farmed in Alpha15?

 

Loot is random in the shiny yellow bags as well, therefore relatively hard to judge. Maybe a small buff to that loot might be beneficial, but my friends and I still try to be the first at such a bag and even have a gentlemans agreement that whoever kills the zombie has first right to it, so it can't be as bad as the loot in backpacks that is always atrocious.

 

PS: Checked the XML whether I'm right with that last impression about loot bags and now I know for a fact that backpack loot can't hold a candle to the yellow zombie bags. And I'll never loot backpacks again 😉

Edited September 28, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

This is a balance discussion and has to take everything into account including the ability branch it is found in. While the sledge is great with damage and punt it is very slow. If you are not sure you will hit consistently a faster weapon will better suit you. Against single opponents the stagger effect of axe or club in combination with faster hitting is equivalent. Against multiple opponents most people change to a gun or if possible get some distance between them and the zombie.

 

A better axe (especially with perks) would not only compete with the somewhat overpowered sledge and club but would also be another argument for people to always use strength and complain about other abilities being underwhelming. When axes were better in previous alphas a lot of people (including madmole himself) used the axe because the combination of a useful melee weapon together with saving a slot was just too good to be true.

 

 

People use the machete when they spec into agility (sometimes even grudgingly 😉), and sometimes for skinning because it gives much better results than a knuckle. Personally, unless I spec into agility I never use knifes for skinning but an axe, because I save a slot with that.

 

 

If mining is a gathering perk benefical to the group I don't see why the wrenching perk is not.

 

 

Lets savour this surprising statement 😉. You clear dozens of houses with each room filled to the hilt with loot containers (cupboards, trash piles, boxes, book cases) and you complain you don't get any loot!? 😂

 

I know this isn't what you wanted to say. But you will have a hard time explaining why the beaker found in a box 2 meters behind a zombie doesn't count, only the beaker on the zombie himself

 

 

A well filled dungeon, a marked contrast to the houses in alpha15 where zombies still had loot. The small difference is, you still kill the zombies for the loot that is **behind* them instead of **in** them and you can't exploit the zombies as a loot delivery service. I fully agree with you that zombies with loot also have advantages, but the good has to be compared to the bad and there were a few big BADs on the zombie loot train bonanza feature.

 

 

Like I said previously, loot that was on zombies in A15 is now found in houses, and the balance was kept that way. Secondly players have brain cells too, how long would it take for them to find out that that 25th zombie is just as valuable as the 25 zombies they farmed in Alpha15?

 

Loot is random in the shiny yellow bags as well, therefore relatively hard to judge. Maybe a small buff to that loot might be beneficial, but my friends and I still try to be the first at such a bag and even have a gentlemans agreement that whoever kills the zombie has first right to it, so it can't be as bad as the loot in backpacks that is always atrocious.

 

PS: Checked the XML whether I'm right with that last impression about loot bags and now I know for a fact that backpack loot can't hold a candle to the yellow zombie bags. And I'll never loot backpacks again 😉

A20 loot is completely different so hopefully those yellow bags feel better 😀

[Star69]

20 hours ago, Nuketown said:

Can we craft firearms in A20? 

I’m pretty sure it was mentioned that you can craft pipe weapons on day 1 with no perks necessary. I haven’t read anything about changes to making of other weapons without a perk or schematic.

[Roland]

8 hours ago, meganoth said:

And I'll never loot backpacks again 😉

 

Never say never. Backpack loot is way better in A20

12 hours ago, Renathras said:

Now it's just something to kill and get XP from

 

A big problem in my opinion. Zombies shouldn't award xp or loot in my opinion. Those rewards artificially incentivize us to seek out zombies and kill them and in a true zombie apocolypse, avoiding should be just as rewarding as killing.

[dcsobral]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Will spikes and barber wire  get new shapes too ? ""

And is there any change about how much exp we will get for upgrading ?

And @madmole please: can you confirme newsstand POI? PLEAAAAAASE 🙏

Btw it is true that you like medival period? i know this small offtop but whatever 😅

We spotted what looked like a new spike model on one of the streams.