A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[bachgaman]

Spoiler

 

 

[meganoth]

15 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

You could also find a wrench right away in a POI, and then you can have iron ingots on day 1.

So basically you COULD have tier 2 tools on day 1. So what?

 

Right. So the experiment I thought of doesn't work. And there is no hard rule to not get tier1 on day1 in A19. Which isn't surprising , there is the pistol in the toilet which would break that rule as well.

 

15 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

 

As you often do, I see you're creating a straw man argument that you (apparently) need to win.

 

Maybe, nobody likes to lose an argument. Maybe I just don't understand your argument fully. Maybe you were not really good at explaining what your argument is, if it really is a straw man I'm doing here.

 

15 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

 

By "scrap tools/weapons" I wasn't referring to scrap iron, that's silly of you to think that. I even gave you an example of how some of the new pipe weapons look like they were assembled using parts scrapped from other modern guns. In that case, YES, you're using parts that you NEED to loot mostly in POIs.

 

Ah, okay. I don't see why it is silly to think that when you ARE talking about scrap tools/weapons. But on the other hand I agree with your guess that small pipes are probably an ingredient in pipe weapons, not necessarily for your reason but because using pipes in a so called "pipe" weapon sounds very logical.

 

I don't look at the graphics and make conclusions from that because there are hundreds of examples in the game of graphics and ingredients being somewhat disconnected. Best example is that you drink a plastic bottle of clean water and get an emtpy glass back. Another example of the artists using their creative freedom in this game is that you can make a perfectly industrial looking scope from broken glass, duct tape, scrapped plastic and forged iron. If you press me I probably could list dozens of other examples where items or blocks look like they have stuff in them that is not part of the ingredient list or the other way round

 

But it sounds quite logical that the **pipe** weapons would actually include pipes and that you would need to find toilets or be lucky to find a wrench or a pipe in some waste pile.

 

While that means that you need to be lucky to find incredients to pipe weapons or pipe weapons themselves without going into POIs I still don't see what the problem is with going into a basic POI on day 1. And why that should constitute "a big difference" (your words).

 

As far as the devs go they always posited the blunderbuss as tier0 and easily available from day 1, right? And I don't have seen any indication that this will change with pipe weapons which are supposed to be the replacement for the blunderbuss. Did you?

 

15 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

 

And I'm telling you that they ALREADY need to fix the tier system.

 

I assume you mean the overlap problem. At least Gazz seems fine with it as it is. To fix that there are two ways which can be combined:

1) Increasing the range all tiers span over so that there is more space for the tiers

2) Compressing each individual tiers range so that each tier uses up less space

 

Adding another tier like a pipe tool and pipe weapon tier would need exactly the same methods. So instead of making rooms once you would need to make room twice.

You see the problem? You either get tiers so much compressed that the difference between quality 1 and quality 2 is getting very small or you get steel tools/weapons that are much less effective on the low end and/or much more OP on the high end than now.

 

15 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

 

So, since they already need to put their hands on it, it'd be the right time to also add "pipe tools" in a balanced and fun way. It's no rocket science man, you just distribute the stamina usage over a wider range, widen the block damage scale and make the crafting parts proportionally more difficult to acquire during the game for each tier.

 

So you already decided that it won't be fun if pipe weapons are tier0 and there are no corresponding pipe tools ? That IS rocket science, man. Or ESP. 😉.

 

Me, I still don't see what pipe tools would bring to the table that isn't already served by stone tools of different quality and iron tools.

Edited July 28, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

Another solution is play like I do.  With stone weapons and stone tools (basically all Tier 0 equipment), I don't use any mods in them.   So no burning shafts or anything like that.  At that point, a Q4 iron tool is better than a Q6 stone tool as I can put in mods on the stone tool to increase durability or reduce stamina or increase resource gathering (or improve damage on weapons).

 

Probably can mod out the mod slots on T0 tools / weapons, but I have enough self control not to use them which pushes me to use iron tools.  Maybe once the game is final, I might make some tweaks to the xml file to remove that option (adding mods to stone equipment).

[Morloc]

5 hours ago, bachgaman said:

You reminded me of one thing when my friends and I first played 7DTD we had a base in the form of a building with a fence around which there was a moat. And on one of the first nights, the zombies broke a tree that grew by the fence and it fell on the roof of our house. At that moment, I was simultaneously shocked and delighted with the genius of the game, thinking that the zombies deliberately knocked down a tree in order to use it to climb onto our roof.

 

Many alphas ago I was fleeing from too many zombies and entered a dilapidated house, knocked out the staircase, and climbed up on the roof. I planted a bunch of blueberries, and since the zombies could not seem to get to me, I was thinking I might be able to stay up here for the long-haul!

When the blueberries finally ripened, their weight increased...just enough to crush the house's structural integrity. The zombies' patience paid off.

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc

[Matt115]

41 minutes ago, Morloc said:

 

Many alphas ago I was fleeing from too many zombies and entered a dilapidated house, knocked out the staircase, and climbed up on the roof. I planted a bunch of blueberries, and since the zombies could not seem to get to me, I was thinking I might be able to stay up here for the long-haul!

When the blueberries finally ripened, their weight increased...just enough to crush the house's structural integrity. The zombies' patience paid off.

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc

well i time i blow up a buiilding because zombie stuck somewhere and i coudn't find where

[Swiftpaw]

One time I got a hangnail, but then I killed it, because it was a zombie hangnail.

 

So is A20 almost here? 🐺🥒🐾💦💦💦💦💦

[Matt115]

15 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

The next GREAT game from Matt115 Games is.... * drumroll * ... "Skeletons & Newsstands" (Rating: Overwhelmingly Positive) 14.264.547 reviews! 

btw you have me more ideas for game - 70 year old man must die! - you play as 70 yo guy. you arms are weak you legs tired but skills from vietnam as still lethal. kill this zombie as****ole before they kill you!

silence in london! - you like fnaf , 7dtd and olivier twist? this game is for you! - as deaf orphan you are one of the few persons who survive  sound wave. now you must eat, drink make clothes and tools and run away from creepy mechatronic in  typical christmas toys  on london steampunk island!

edge 7dtd - you know 7dtd to die but is darker - more ruins , no mad max stuff , everything is sad deprsing - hanging bodies , rotting corpses fog everywhere, zombie teens, drowned corpses in water, bandits are crazy psycho ( not in bordelands or mad max style but in slasher style - old man in old uniform with m16 , butcher with knifes , skining corpses hunter etc) 

70 mln or die - we play as 45 yo guy who had a very hard night in Duke casino - now we need get money to pay ourself , but killers waiting for our mistakes - rpg/fps prequel of 7dtd 

70 000 days to die - put horizon zero dawn but change robots into zombies. Our character is 17 yo who was choose to put into cryocapsule. now you wake up after 70 000 days. is green everywhere and you need to survive. guns? rusted years ago. thirt ? you find something like that but leathermake in some old camp. so wrap you feet and hands with cloth fragments take a bow and fight with  200 old zombies ( + more colours and quiet more positive that 7dtd - modern things are rare so welcome in neoacient times!)

7 minutes to die! - short free spin off - you play as paralised man in hospital when outbreak begins. you can just watch as zombie eat your body .

What do you think @Jost Amman ?

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Swiftpaw said:

One time I got a hangnail, but then I killed it, because it was a zombie hangnail.

 

So is A20 almost here? 🐺🥒🐾💦💦💦💦💦

nope

 

[Swiftpaw]

16 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

nope

 

Confirmed: releasing tomorrow

 

ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAAAAAAAAAAIN CHOOCHOOOO

Edited July 28, 2021 by Swiftpaw (see edit history)

[Matt115]

1 minute ago, Swiftpaw said:

Confirmed: releasing tomorrow

 

ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAAAAAAAAAAIN CHOOCHOOOO

i mean : wait maybe in november

[bachgaman]

5 minutes ago, Swiftpaw said:

Confirmed: releasing tomorrow

 

ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAAAAAAAAAAIN CHOOCHOOOO

Srsly?

[Roland]

10 hours ago, Blake_ said:

But what if the single player campaign takes place in the Dishong tower and the single player campaign is guaranteed to be in RWG but without the Dishong tower you get nothing?

 

You are not going to like this but...AFAIK, Navezgane exists for the story campaign and there aren't necessarily plans to try and make the story mode work with RWG....

 

 

7 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

In A19 it is already guaranteed by the algorithm that essential POIs are in a map. I refer to the traders of course. So if a POI is essential for the story add it to the special list the traders are in. Done.

 

 

But is that the only issue involved with making sure the story campaign will work in any random world? I don't know the answer to that and I also don't know that the developers are even planning to use any world other than Navezgane to tell the story.

4 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Another solution is play like I do.  With stone weapons and stone tools (basically all Tier 0 equipment), I don't use any mods in them.   So no burning shafts or anything like that.  At that point, a Q4 iron tool is better than a Q6 stone tool as I can put in mods on the stone tool to increase durability or reduce stamina or increase resource gathering (or improve damage on weapons).

 

Probably can mod out the mod slots on T0 tools / weapons, but I have enough self control not to use them which pushes me to use iron tools.  Maybe once the game is final, I might make some tweaks to the xml file to remove that option (adding mods to stone equipment).

 

I am definitely going to start doing this. Great suggestion. 

[Blake_]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 

You are not going to like this but...AFAIK, Navezgane exists for the story campaign and there aren't necessarily plans to try and make the story mode work with RWG....

 

 

 

But is that the only issue involved with making sure the story campaign will work in any random world? I don't know the answer to that and I also don't know that the developers are even planning to use any world other than Navezgane to tell the story.

No problem. That'd most certainly be an awesome feature. As for if it will work, well, it depends. My guess is that it will absolutely work if done like the current quests (code-wise), yet the POIs involved must be in the map, and with a balanced paced distance from each other like in Navezgane. It's way up there in my list of dreams along with organic-destroyable-respawnable traders and campaign POIs. Full freedom is always better if done right.

 

For example, Bethesda games don't do the freedom part right and they stop somewhere in the middle. 7dtd has the potential to wipe all of the Boston Area (Fallout 4 reference) and kill everybody and create a storyline that fits without much trouble. You killed all the traders? alright, new ones will spawn, but you better earn back the trust of the White River/ Duke faction. Destroyed the last storyline POI and killed the Duke or Noah on day 1? No problem, there's plenty of evil people in his faction that can randomly take over until you finish the campaign. The Duke is a title after all. That's what I desire. 3 wishes and the like.

[Laz Man]

I subjectively think A20 has the best version of RWG maps to date...Although I don't think it will be without its flaws, I do hope the majority of players will find it superior in many ways then one...

 

....😅

[unholyjoe]

13 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

I subjectively think A20 has the best version of RWG maps to date...Although I don't think it will be without its flaws, I do hope the majority of players will find it superior in many ways then one...

 

....😅

i am going to guess a lot of people will like it over any previous builds... but we will ALWAYS have those who want to be the opposite and hate on everything.

[meganoth]

11 hours ago, unholyjoe said:

i am going to guess a lot of people will like it over any previous builds... but we will ALWAYS have those who want to be the opposite and hate on everything.

 

I'm sure there will be a few finding new faults. But one feature was objectively lost since a few alphas, the dense city blocks. I think RWG A20 will get a lot of critics to change their mind if it gets that right again.

 

[unholyjoe]

1 hour ago, Gamida said:

it's not the same if your text isn't blue.

blue = on duty

not blue = off duty

 

then again... sometimes i forget... i dunno, i cant remember. <rolls eyes>

[BFT2020]

29 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

blue = on duty

not blue = off duty

 

then again... sometimes i forget... i dunno, i cant remember. <rolls eyes>

You are QA, you are always on duty  😉

 

[dcsobral]

2 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

You are QA, you are always on duty  😉

 

He works on Quality Assurance. He keeps telling Joel it's gonna be great! 😂

[Jugginator]

4 hours ago, Gazz said:

73.6 %, I'd say. That's the percentage of statistics on the internet that are just made up so it seems probable.

 

33.33 (repeating, of course) % chance of the 73.6% being true though, no?

[SweetHart53]

On 6/9/2021 at 3:50 AM, Matt115 said:

There is any planes of something like alarm to lure zombie hordes? Because it could be rly fun if  Speaker could respawn zombie hordes nearby 

 

You can start knocking down some POI's. The noise of falling walls attracts the screamers.

[Matt115]

10 hours ago, SweetHart53 said:

 

You can start knocking down some POI's. The noise of falling walls attracts the screamers.

well my point was it will work like summoning items from terraria or boomer bille from l4d2 like - another players attack you base. you turn on alarm. zombie are respawniing so attacking players must fight with you and them in this same time but you are in your base so you have better position

[wolfbain5]

33 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

well my point was it will work like summoning items from terraria or boomer bille from l4d2 like - another players attack you base. you turn on alarm. zombie are respawniing so attacking players must fight with you and them in this same time but you are in your base so you have better position

i always thought the speaker alarm should attract zombies. I mean they are supposedly alerted to a thrown rock. so why does the speaker not affect them?

[Treb]

On 7/28/2021 at 3:22 AM, Roland said:

 

They are different worlds. And you better believe that there would be those interested in the challenge of surviving in a world without particular POI's that show up.

 

Regardless, it is ridiculous to compare Skyrim and 7 Days to Die locations. Skyrim locations are story based while 7 Days locations are not. If Poopy Pants Daycare doesn't spawn you won't be stopped in your progression. There are other places to get the loot you would have found in PPD. 

 

Regardless of you thinking that your subjective opinion is somehow an objective universal truth held by all gamers, I gotta disabuse you of your fixed belief. There are more Not Blakes out there than you seem to realize and plenty who aren't concerned about whether Old_House_01, Old_House_02, Old_House_03,..., Old_House_24 are all present on every single map generated every single time. If every POI always generates on every map then there really is just one map rearranged but all the same places every single time.

 

Nope. Your view is definitely not objective-- given the data we have so far.

 

 

While I don't care if it doesn't have every house POI, it would be nice if it always generated the high tier POIs like the factories, Red Mesa, Dishong tower, Higashi tower, hospital etc.

 

Those places are a lot of fun. I don't think I've ever encountered the Dishong or Higashi towers in any random world in the alphas I played (18.4-present).

 

I don't really care if houses repeat, but it would be nice to have the Higashi tower instead of some repeat of another high tier POI.

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Blake_ said:

Wait... falling doesn't happen without previous damage or a player proximity trigger for current sleepers. Ever. Does that mean that there are wandering sleepers already in the game?

 

How that? You can destroy every block of the ground floor of a POI without entering the volume of upper floor volumes. POI crumbles -> sleepers fall