A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[Aldranon]

Someone from TFP should talk to the writers of Black Summer 2.

At least one of them is a fan boy IMO.  "Proof" is the first scene after the "Four Months Later" screen! 

 

Maybe they could do some plot work/Story line for you guys?

[BFT2020]

Related to our INT build conversations

 

If you are not a puritan to INT builds and only believe that they can only use equipment they can perk into, I have found a stun baton / knife combo is very devastating, especially against tough or feral zombies.  Hit the zombie with your stun baton until you stun lock them, then switch to knife and power attack to get the bleed affects.  Then back to stun baton to keep locking them up.  Since I do a lot of backtracking and stamina recovery while using the stun baton, the bleed affects (along with the initial power attack damage) by the knife helps to take the zombie down faster. - Doesn't have to be perked into to get bleed affects.

 

You can also use the club if you want to (to try and knock them down), but since the stun baton stun locks them, that is my crowd control weapon.  Also, since I already take a knife for harvesting animals I come across, I am not using up a second inventory slot purely for a melee weapon.

[ShellHead]

Oh, absolutely. There are lots of good combinations available. My position was always about making sure the power allocation for the Baton and Turrets was within a reasonable margin of other options, which was why i was focused on the idea on-perk INT builds. If you want to go hard into direct combat while also being specced into INT, you absolutely are going to go off-perk with weapons, but INT’s weapons are designed for indirect combat and i just want to be certain they are as powerful at their specialization as other perks weapons are at theirs.

[Matt115]

36 minutes ago, Morloc said:

 

Well, it'd only be "less than .01% chance to see someone in a football uniform or cheerleading outfit" if you literally only saw one person.

We know from past discussions that the math is a bit more complicated if we look at multiple instances of some percentage chance, but here we're drawing from a finite pool (your chances of rolling a cheerleader increase a bit each time you fail to roll one).

 

To the point of my argument though...it's more shallow than that since I'm mostly only having fun with the math and the surprising revelation that there are a lot of friggan cheerleaders in the US!

Having "weird" zombies is a tradition in zombie films as it drives home the horror of say...juxtaposing a woman in a wedding dress with her new zombie-status or the clergy zombie (cheerleaders outnumber them by 8:1, though they'd be much more likely to be seen wearing their work-clothing). There are way fewer MC-style bikers out there than cheerleaders too. Should we be worried? 

 

Surely having a Nurse, Cheerleader, Cowboy, Stripper and Biker, Construction Worker was too much specialization, but consider keeping one or two such odd zombie of the basic types. This suggestion is mostly for fun rather than hardcore immersion or maximizing the mileage from texture use.

In the most general sense I like almost everything you're doing with the game (except for that reduction of slots thing, my only real "concern").

 

 

 

-Morloc (endorsed by 4 million cheerleaders)

Well point is - at least in my opi0n- it doesn't matter that cheerleeder or  footplayer but about a samll number zombie variants. rly 20 is not so much , when TFP want to put 18 models of bandits - rly this looks for bandit make them more "mercenary" and "organisated" look - like bandits in stalker or  money heist movie ( you know this hispanic movie with citie of names and doc).  So people are complaining because we will lose zombies variants.  Well  nurse is logical- well zombie outbreake they send medical support like in l4d2 or days gone. Biker? well i don't life in USA but in australia there is a lot of  bikers gangs. contruction workers? Come to Poland - you will find a lot of construction workers. Right bride is stupid but can have sense like in l4d2 - there is only one bride witch because probably she was... nick gf XD. oaky stipper don't have sense this same cowboy. But change cowboy into redneck  this same shirt like lumberjack without arms , hat an jeans pants and it will suit  perfect. So okay cut "unsual" variants and will be okay. i wrote my suggestion but it can be more - metal/goth/emo girl , few zombie surviors types , zombie cop or just typical zombies in normal clothes like in l4d2. I'm complaining because there is a small number of zombie variants and TFP want to cut even this number more. Rly we don't need so much bandits- humans in zombie games are so bad enemies because... they are humans and can be in everygame. So 4 models of them could be enough . we have  12 "normal" zombie variants if we cut cheerleeder cowboy and stipper. 8 tought - well lumberjack is quiet rare maybe only in alaska it is popular -7 . 8 special but football is gone- 7 that mean . 26 zombieas and want 18 bandits types XD  in my opinion it should be - 30 normal zombie , 10 tought , and 10 special and  maybe 5-6 bandits . rly @Morloc it must be still zombie game or rage 2 with few zombie? because proportion sound like return to castle wolfenstein or uncharted 1. in zombie game zombies are most important - no bandits drones etc but zombies xd  

 

Right most thing what they are doing are good but  drones , new guns or this bandits variants idea are so bad - it sounds like fallout rage 2 or another stupid post apo with guys in bdsm suits and strange hairstyle. rly 7dtd should go into days gone and l4d2 way

Edited June 18, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Matt115]

2 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

Sweet! glad to see they are not gone

is it going to be a like the burnt zombie where it will just have its own model or will it be like the way we have it now

i hope he will get his own model xd

[dcsobral]

1 hour ago, Survager said:

QUESTION: can we expect that in 20 Alpha the transport will not slow down so quickly after the gas button is not pressed?

 

I'm currently playing Days Gone and the transport feels much more logical there. After gaining a decent speed and letting go of the gas, you can travel quite a long distance, and even more on an incline.

 

So the management of transport would become much more interesting, since the player would be able to control fuel consumption, and not drive with the gas button constantly pressed.

 

I tried to do this in xml by increasing the torque, but in this case the sound of the wheels scrolling appears when driving.
Now you can drive a little more distance with the SHIFT button held down after releasing the throttle button, but it still looks not so good.

It does annoy me how much drag there is going downhill. As for the other, I'm good. The gyrocopter can travel a long, long time without acceleration.

 

[dcsobral]

13 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Can we expect the soldier zombie to be remodeled at some point in the future as well?  No mention about him, or about the farmer with the blue overalls.

It was remodeled, I think for alpha 19. I recall the twitter update on it. Well, I might distinctly remember it but I can't find it, but I recall it was an image on the garage of the military base compound, and also showcased the new lightning.

 

 

[MechanicalLens]

4 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

an HD version is on the list for a20 thats as much as i can offer.

 

No rush.

[unholyjoe]

Just now, MechanicalLens said:

 

No rush.

 

 

it aint up to me...

[MechanicalLens]

Just now, unholyjoe said:

 

 

it aint up to me...

 

Not with that mindset it's not.

[Junuxx]

17 hours ago, Guppycur said:

And when can we expect space orb support? 

 

15 hours ago, faatal said:

3 The end of time

 

Funny answer to a silly question, but if anyone was actually serious about using a spaceorb, there are things that can be done.

 

I'm not sure, but it might actually be fun to fly the gyrocopter using this. Outside of that I don't really see the point of having a 6 DOF controller in 7dtd.

[JCrook1028]

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

when TFP want to put 18 models of bandits

That number makes a lot more sense if you realize the bandits are split into 3 separate groups. White River/ The Duke and .......... hmm, the bad guys group. forget the name. SO it's only 6 types per group.

[hiemfire]

7 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

That number makes a lot more sense if you realize the bandits are split into 3 separate groups. White River/ The Duke and .......... hmm, the bad guys group. forget the name. SO it's only 6 types per group.

If you're thinking Cazadores, that's the Duke's group iirc, with the duke himself being termed "Duke Cazadore" in the teaser images they released back at the tail end of A18 during A19's developement. Noah leads the White River iirc.

[Matt115]

46 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

That number makes a lot more sense if you realize the bandits are split into 3 separate groups. White River/ The Duke and .......... hmm, the bad guys group. forget the name. SO it's only 6 types per group.

 

30 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

If you're thinking Cazadores, that's the Duke's group iirc, with the duke himself being termed "Duke Cazadore" in the teaser images they released back at the tail end of A18 during A19's developement. Noah leads the White River iirc.

okay : 1 white rivers are traders so bandits + traders? em XD 

2. 6 is a lot- and ok 6 yeah? it can be done in typical way - this same model just diffrent cloth color so - 18 will change into 12 - 12 more space for more zombie variants xd

And guys     Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!                    this is from offical wiki = zombies . so should be focused on.. zombies so how zombie get less attention? zombies should be a core not addon

Edited June 18, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Roland]

44 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

zombies should be a core not addon

 

After 8 years of nothing but zombies and waiting for some kind of bandit add on to the game I can promise you that at this point I can definitively state that zombies are not addon for this game even if they add 18 models of bandits.  Sheesh...

[Matt115]

28 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

After 8 years of nothing but zombies and waiting for some kind of bandit add on to the game I can promise you that at this point I can definitively state that zombies are not addon for this game even if they add 18 models of bandits.  Sheesh...

well bandits was "in works" for some time - in this time we a lot of stuff but a lot of zombie were cuted too like miner zombie. and now we will get even less variants. Well i was playing today in cod cw well new easter egg etc . and damn 3 this same zombie officer i wish i could done screenshot but it isn't on steam.  And honestly - if madmol or faatal will say something like  - in A21 or in A22 will be added for example 30 new zombie variants - i will end with compaling about bandits, damn i could even make a detailed description as help ( i can't drawn arts 😅 ). but until then i will talk about it because it is important in my opinion. Ofc you are right - zombie will  have major role no matter what  in this  game but they need  more variants honestly. 

btw i appreciate what you are saying - we get new hd models  for zombies and they looks rly good but there is still is this same number of variants.  i  just want to not sacrfice zombie variants number for bandits xd

Edited June 18, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

7 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Right most thing what they are doing are good but  drones , new guns or this bandits variants idea are so bad - it sounds like fallout rage 2 or another stupid post apo with guys in bdsm suits and strange hairstyle. rly 7dtd should go into days gone and l4d2 way

Drones - You don't like them, don't use them

 

New guns - Pipe weapons, just a small addition to address the fact we gain ammo early game but no guns.  These are just a way for survivors to fight back with firearms early game.  Again if you don't like them then don't use them.  I think a lot of us are eagerly awaiting the pipe weapons.

 

Bandits - This has been the plan for 7D2D.  A lot of us have been eagerly awaiting the bandits to be added.  If you don't want bandits in the game, ummm, don't go past Alpha 20?

 

Days Gone and L4D2 are not the same genre as 7D2D.  It is like you want TFP to completely scrap the game mechanics they have setup and make this game similar to those 2 games.

[Matt115]

5 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Drones - You don't like them, don't use them

 

New guns - Pipe weapons, just a small addition to address the fact we gain ammo early game but no guns.  These are just a way for survivors to fight back with firearms early game.  Again if you don't like them then don't use them.  I think a lot of us are eagerly awaiting the pipe weapons.

 

Bandits - This has been the plan for 7D2D.  A lot of us have been eagerly awaiting the bandits to be added.  If you don't want bandits in the game, ummm, don't go past Alpha 20?

 

Days Gone and L4D2 are not the same genre as 7D2D.  It is like you want TFP to completely scrap the game mechanics they have setup and make this game similar to those 2 games.

i mean new models of old guns like magnum sniper rifle , m60 (rly shovel part?) xd  . Well i don't saying i don't want bandits . i mean i want more zombie variants like it is more important for me that bandits but  it doesn't mean i don't  want bandits lol  

No, i don't mean to scrap game mechanics -  what i mean : setting - body piles , poster about infection on wall , evac centres, left military wooden crates and hummers tanks , crashed plane , rotting corpes on barber wire ,  drawings on walls like " this is the end" etc -  i mean do something reverse - take days gone and l4d2 setting  and put 7dtd mechanics.  

and 7dtd is more mechanics similar to minecraft or ark right? but "setting" is more similiar to l4d2 - realitic graphic , small cites etc so it should be more zombie variants - this same stats only diffrent model . So  I DON'T SAY TO CHANGE MECHANIC BUT KEEP SEETING OF DAYS GONE AND L4D2. because now it starts to change into rage  or fallout xd

[hiemfire]

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

okay : 1 white rivers are traders so bandits + traders? em XD 

What was mentioned about the rough outline they had of the story at the time, (this may has changed since it is still in development but this was brought up when they teased the sketches and preliminary renders of the Duke, Noah and the different bandits) after you reached a certain point with the trader quests (finishing x# of tier 5's is what I recall, may have changed) you'd end up having the option of joining one of the 2 factions. Noah's White River or the Duke's Cazadores. So 2 factions consisting of either the Duke + 8 subtypes and Noah + 8 subtypes = the bandits. Which side is giving you hell will depend on which faction you side with.

Quote

zombies should be a core not addon

They are a core, and will most likely remain a threat of sorts through out. Adding other things which expand the depth of the game does not always equate to removing other core aspects of the same game. It'll still be a zombie survival themed casino game, they just won't be the only opponent you're going to have to prep for.

Edited June 19, 2021 by hiemfire (see edit history)

[bloodmoth13]

On 6/18/2021 at 10:53 AM, Laz Man said:

Although would look interesting. Sounds too niche (e.g. like the football player) and maybe moreso then the current cowboy.  There are alot of people in the U.S. who actually wear the cowboy look so he fits the general population bucket imo.

He wouldnt suit cities but cities dont even take up the majority of the space in the game. Inversely no current zombie looks good anywhere in the wilderness, it would be good to have some wild zombies that spawn when you are a long way away from the city

[TWORDY]

I`ve posted some overhaul idea regarding 1 main attribute instead of 5 in Pimp Dreams. 7 pages if someone is interested to go through there. 

[meilodasreh]

6 hours ago, bloodmoth13 said:

Inversely no current zombie looks good anywhere in the wilderness, it would be good to have some wild zombies that spawn when you are a long way away from the city

I like that Idea!

And it would in fact fit perfectly in the apocalyptic background story.

 

I mean when things go f***ed up, there would surely be a bunch of prepper/survivalist/backpacker guys retreating deep into the wilderness.

There already are some smaller pois where those guys would probably be expected, e.g. those very small encampments with two tents and a campfire (those don't show up anymore since A16/17?)....or even the tiny ruins with just a broken wall corner of the building. 

 

But I hope/expect when once bandits are introduced, there might also be a zombified version of them,

and those would more or less "fit that gap".

Because bandits would have "evolved" from people who escaped the "big bang"

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[Matt115]

13 hours ago, hiemfire said:

What was mentioned about the rough outline they had of the story at the time, (this may has changed since it is still in development but this was brought up when they teased the sketches and preliminary renders of the Duke, Noah and the different bandits) after you reached a certain point with the trader quests (finishing x# of tier 5's is what I recall, may have changed) you'd end up having the option of joining one of the 2 factions. Noah's White River or the Duke's Cazadores. So 2 factions consisting of either the Duke + 8 subtypes and Noah + 8 subtypes = the bandits. Which side is giving you hell will depend on which faction you side with.

They are a core, and will most likely remain a threat of sorts through out. Adding other things which expand the depth of the game does not always equate to removing other core aspects of the same game. It'll still be a zombie survival themed casino game, they just won't be the only opponent you're going to have to prep for.

1. so it can be done in most factions fps like - this same models only diffrents colurs so 6 models will be enough.

They are a core yeah but even in cod waw zombies gets more variants that in 7dtd when zombie is core - in cod zombies was addon.  so  more variants types etc should be piority like - 1 update 3 new zombies xd

11 hours ago, TWORDY said:

I`ve posted some overhaul idea regarding 1 main attribute instead of 5 in Pimp Dreams. 7 pages if someone is interested to go through there. 

Well i don't know a lot about  skill balance but you done rly good job . So it looks rly cool

Edited June 19, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[sillls]

18 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Sillls, as someone who was here at the time you should know this answer already. The answer was no because it unbalanced and ruined POI design and they refused to go through and redesign all the POI's to take account of 1 block egress. It is exactly the same reason why locked doors will not be pickable.

 

Seeing as how they've designed another 200+ POI's since that time, none of which were balanced for 1-block egress, it is extremely doubtful they will suddenly decide to do an even bigger overhaul now that they weren't willing to do back then. It is a design decision and that's that.

 

The good news is that once zombies have the ability perhaps it can be modded onto players. That is really the only hope at this point.

Yes but the whole idea about it being unbalanced was just because zombies could not do the same thing. Now that they can I thought that would finally change. If anything zombies now have an advantage in this respect. 

 

I'm not understanding why they should have to go in and change all of the POI's. What would they need to do to them?  

Edited June 19, 2021 by sillls (see edit history)

[Roland]

12 minutes ago, sillls said:

Yes but the whole idea about it being unbalanced was just because zombies could not do the same thing.

 

That's not what the whole idea of unbalance was. It was always about too easily circumventing the level design of the POIs

 

13 minutes ago, sillls said:

Now that they can I thought that would finally change. 

 

They can't yet and the pathing for them consciously moving through 1 meter spaces won't be in until at least A21-- and whether they can or not has no bearing on whether players can or not. The only factor is level design.

 

16 minutes ago, sillls said:

I'm not understanding what you mean about having to go in and change all of the POI's. What would they need to do to them?

 

They would have to go and redesign them taking into account the ability of the player to break a single block and crawl through anywhere.