Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, Gazz said:

 

No. What I said is that you will make a profit from farming as long as you have 1 level of LOTL.

 

The system COULD have been simplified to leaving the seeds planted as in A19 and adjusting harvest to the same amount that we get now but no one asked me. =P

 

Then I'd like to ask now. Pretty please 🤗. I'm all for nerfing farming so it doesn't get out of hand and *I* like the random chance to get a kick in the behind. I even would say I love that detail, it makes seeds something you always look for and your farm hopefully change continually.

 

But the replanting is a universal thorne in everyone's foot after we all tasted the comfort of firmly planted seeds. Just leave the seeds in the plots when they spoil, then you don't even need to recalculate the math.

 

 

 

[TSBX]

One thing nobody is really talking about is how seeds are found in trash which is literally everywhere. Even more so, considering the produce basket loot containers give you an abundant chance at seeds, you're going to get plenty of opportunities (super corn withstanding). I've played Devil's Advocate in plenty of Dev Diary threads in the past, but I can say that this change looks worse on paper than it plays out. Give it a go when it goes public and figure out what YOU like and don't like about it once you can ballast it against what you've seen on streams.

[MisutoM]

4 hours ago, Gazz said:

that the whole system became harder to understand could be improved. Not everyone is good at math and people are known to draw conclusions from small sample sizes. =P

 

 

This isn't really a people being bad at math situation though. With large numbers, level 1 of living off the land gives only slightly less profit than the previous system (roughly 1.5 crops per harvest), but we don't start with a large number of seeds and it's likely that players end up in feel bad moments.

 

Consider, after streaming a20 for 24 hours roughly, on my tier 3 completion bonus for one trader, I chose the farm bundle. This gave me just 1 super corn seed. With LOTL 1 I have a 50% chance of just not being able to grow more after my first harvest. This feels like I wasted a quest reward because I didn't invest 7 points into fortitude/LOTL to ensure that I can go infinite on farms. Half your player base who picks this reward is just going to feel bad when they go bust and cannot continue farming super corn/hops/pumpkins, which feels like bad game design, no offense. 

 

 

And that doesn't even touch on the tedium added to farming now. All the times you'll have to open your menu, count out how many new seeds you need to craft, click them to your hotbar, plant, menu move seed, repeat. It's just not a fun gameplay loop. If the gameplay loop isn't fun, than the rewards need to be pretty good, but farm crop meals just aren't better enough to actually matter compared to grilled or boiled meat and coffee/teas that you harvest without farms. (side note, it seems like every new POI has coffee pots so I'm basically drowning in coffee beans after 20 days in an a20 world. Was the drop chance increased or is it just that coffee pots are more common now?) 

 

 

If changing farms isn't something you guys would consider, at least consider making the farm bundles give 2 seeds. With 2 seeds and LOTL you only 1 in 32 chance of going bust and losing all their seeds. Whether or not they keep the motivation to go through 5 plant cycles to see if they can end their unlucky streak and start erring on the side of profiting each time is an entirely different question... But yeah, 3 plots and 1 of 3 different seeds does not even remotely compete with rewards like 500 concrete blocks or a 44 magnum and ammo... Honestly, if it's going to be a reward in this category, I don't even think 6 farm plots would be enough, maybe 9 but even then, by tier 4 completion it'd be competing with the potential value of 30,000 dukes worth of concrete blocks.

 

 

Everything else feels great though. World gen is amazing, the way trader quests were changed was a huge surprise and 10/10 (especially the tier 1 reward which really helps the early game for all builds). So many amazing things I could compliment the team on pushing out, it was definitely worth the wait. Farms are a miss though, even if you think it's just people being bad at math, if that means most players are not having fun with it and end up never using it... why is it a thing? I'd rather just see LOTL nerfed to give a 50% chance of giving 1 extra crop for each tier. That would balance out 1 point to be worth the same average 1.5 per harvest that the new nerf does and leaves in some random but it doesn't have the potential for players to go bust and lose it all (especially if they start with just 1 seed). 

[[email protected]]

22 hours ago, zztong said:

 

Not intending to throw fuel on the fire, but I wouldn't expect to find weaponry on an unattended Hummer on a military base, unless it were attached to the vehicle (such as mounted in a turret). The military I was part of took gun control very seriously. You would find them in a weapons locker.

 

Tools would certainly be apropos as military vehicles still get stuck in mud and folks otherwise need to solve non-martial problems. I might also expect to find things like MREs, water bottles, medical supplies, candy bar wrappers, a newspaper, toilet paper, etc.

 

Now if the base were overrun, folks were fighting and dying, and the base fell to the Z's, then I'd expect to find M16s and all sorts of stuff laying all around the compound.

 

Once "society" becomes a few remaining individual survivors then I don't expect anything to stay where it was, specially if you start advancing the timeline over a period of years.

Well you would at least expect to find a side arm or ammo on a belt holster.

Or a bullet proof vest on a torso.

Or a M-16 on a dead solders body.

If a solder was on a mounted gun and died shooting.

His standard issue weapon would be near his corpse.

I could see a truck having a shovel, chains, spare gas and a tool kit.

But not a 1800's style pick axe with a wooden handle.

as for items moving from their intended place.

The survivor may have beamed to earth years after society fell.

But the rad zone suggest everyone died by high yield nuclear devices.

That everyone died swiftly quickly.  

[bachgaman]

7 hours ago, unholyjoe said:

finally... the reason he is @%$#ing... or i mean complaining  disagreeing about everything... he cant experience the joy until Monday. just like Christmas isnt it?

No, this only applies to streamer weekends and I did not hide it

[Aldranon]

 

If streamer weekend makes TFP a sack of money from new sales, then its well worth it.  

[Adam the Waster]

21 hours ago, Blake_ said:

YES, I've upgraded my rig for this alpha.

 

 

Not the prefabs, but the blocks, and yes, it was an unbearable amount of work. So any previous prefab is kind off useless now, sorry. 

Edit: Most of the prefabs were also upgraded, so it's also almost as you ask too.

Still better then mine, I just hooked my up to my TV and uses a Dinner tray to hold my Mouse and a Crappy table to hold my keyboard..

thats why i uses gamepad more

[POCKET951]

1 hour ago, MisutoM said:

 

 

This isn't really a people being bad at math situation though. With large numbers, level 1 of living off the land gives only slightly less profit than the previous system (roughly 1.5 crops per harvest), but we don't start with a large number of seeds and it's likely that players end up in feel bad moments.

 

Consider, after streaming a20 for 24 hours roughly, on my tier 3 completion bonus for one trader, I chose the farm bundle. This gave me just 1 super corn seed. With LOTL 1 I have a 50% chance of just not being able to grow more after my first harvest. This feels like I wasted a quest reward because I didn't invest 7 points into fortitude/LOTL to ensure that I can go infinite on farms. Half your player base who picks this reward is just going to feel bad when they go bust and cannot continue farming super corn/hops/pumpkins, which feels like bad game design, no offense. 

 

 

of the stream I did watch, I noticed that seeds were much more common drops and more abundant than in A19, and yes living off the land 1 is sustainable  later on..but early on you need to hit a seed on your first plant or you are in trouble.

This isn't an issue for alot of common plants, but it is a big deal for supercorn, unless supercorn is abit easier to obtain outside of just bobs barn.

at this point the strategy to guarantee supercorn is to get living off the land 3 and plant and replant till you get 3 seeds and then just respec with a forgetting elixir  because dumping 6 points in LoTL 3 seems very wasteful 
 

Edited December 5, 2021 by POCKET951 (see edit history)

[Guppycur]

I like the key racks that open doors, but wouldn't it also make sense that the doors also get unlocked?

 

...had the opportunity to play on a stream yesterday.

 

Gotta say.

 

A17 lie.

A18 lie.

A19 lie.

 

A20?  ... this really is the best version of this game.  I don't even miss a16 or a11/12 anymore.

 

This truly is worth saying "it's the best version yet".  

 

Amazing job pimps.  

[Aldranon]

9 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

I like the key racks that open doors, but wouldn't it also make sense that the doors also get unlocked?

 

...had the opportunity to play on a stream yesterday.

 

Gotta say.

 

A17 lie.

A18 lie.

A19 lie.

 

A20?  ... this really is the best version of this game.  I don't even miss a16 or a11/12 anymore.

 

This truly is worth saying "it's the best version yet".  

 

Amazing job pimps.  

 

Well, if you think A20 is better than A16 AND A11 (The two best alphas IMO) then we are all in for a sweet treat!

 

I will say the cities with their added danger (and they look great) are what has me sold on it so far.

A close second will be making a beautiful and powerful fortress.  I want to see the masters build their forts on Youtube as well. 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Aldranon (see edit history)

[Guppycur]

So the city zombies aren't "immediate" dangers like they were in a15, but they just sort of roam in and creep up around you from all directions, which makes it better imo.  

[Jost Amman]

4 hours ago, Doomofman said:

Also, is it true that the lever action rifle doesn't actually have a lever action animation? I haven't seen enough of it during the streamer weekend to know for sure

No, it isn't. You can check this video and see the animation at 6:37

Spoiler

 

 

[Scythe-Messiah]

Quote

 

The drones abilities can be augmented and enhanced by the player’s intellect, but players can still acquire and use a Drone without perking into it.

 

 

I'm excited for the drone, but I'm also confused by lack of documentation/communication regarding it. I had to wait for streamer weekend for more info and I still feel in the dark. I understand the drone was originally built as an INT class weapon, but it's been changed so that it's effectively a 'vehicle' companion for everyone. But I can't clearly see where it falls in perk progression and what benefits an INT specialist gets with it -- other than crafting item levels. 

 

Are the patch notes incorrect here or is there some functionality that will be present in future experimental builds that's not present currently / still undecided? i.e. tie-ins with INT perks: robotics, physician, grease monkey, daring adventurer, engineering, etc.

 

Some of the content I've seen didn't answer some of my concerns: Does the drone count as a vehicle? or does against the total robot limit? E.g. If I'm fully spec'd in robotics, am I reduced to 1 turret + 1 drone? or is it 2 turrets + drone? (as in drones don't count towards limit). IMHO Being limited would be brutal since an INT builds viability is tied to turret count while other classes would simply get added utility without perk points spent. (especially if I build my drone to be used for team medical support and use my turrets a as backline.)

 

Great to see the drone automatically apply healing. Does the drone only target it's owner? or does it also automatically heal nearby allies? (if so, can that be changed by locking it? if the ally enters the password they can be a valid heal target?) or will they need to manually interact and request healing from it every time?

 

To reiterate: I believe a physician perk tie in to the drone would be fantastic for an INT player as a team support role -- healing effectiveness and/or reducing the drone's heal cooldown for example.

 

Anyways, I've been enjoying seeing the streams and really love the RWG work, POIs, zombie models, and feral sense. Looking forward to playing it, seeing it hit stable, and hearing about what comes next.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Scythe-Messiah
Typos/clarity (see edit history)

[bachgaman]

1 hour ago, Aldranon said:

 

If streamer weekend makes TFP a sack of money from new sales, then its well worth it.  

Keyword - "if"

[Gazz]

53 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

So the city zombies aren't "immediate" dangers like they were in a15, but they just sort of roam in and creep up around you from all directions, which makes it better imo.  

 

If you feel lonely you can turn on Feral Sense.

[Guppycur]

15 minutes ago, Gazz said:

 

If you feel lonely you can turn on Feral Sense.

That's the setting that makes all of the difference.  I should have probably mentioned that.

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

8 hours ago, Gazz said:

 

No. What I said is that you will make a profit from farming as long as you have 1 level of LOTL.

 

The system COULD have been simplified to leaving the seeds planted as in A19 and adjusting harvest to the same amount that we get now but no one asked me. =P

 

Ok well I'm asking you, can you preserve that pretty please with sprinkles and a decapitated zombie head on top 😳😬

[Aldranon]

18 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

That's the setting that makes all of the difference.  I should have probably mentioned that.

 

Its the difference between the walking dead and 28 days later if you add run or sprint on daylight. 

Some streamer did that... and he died.

[Doomofman]

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

No, it isn't. You can check this video and see the animation at 6:37

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Thanks for this. I had only been able to find a clip of it being zoomed in and you cant see the animation from that perspective...

 

Now if only they could make it use .44 instead

[JCrook1028]

11 hours ago, Spuder said:

Are there plans to add the switches/triggers to most existing POI’s?

I sure hope not if they will continue to create an uncloseable door after they are used. That eliminates the POI from ever being able to be used as a base.

8 hours ago, Gazz said:

That you have to replant is not a problem at all.

..in your opinion... to a lot of us it is a big problem.

[MechanicalLens]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Then I'd like to ask now. Pretty please 🤗. I'm all for nerfing farming so it doesn't get out of hand and *I* like the random chance to get a kick in the behind. I even would say I love that detail, it makes seeds something you always look for and your farm hopefully change continually.

 

But the replanting is a universal thorne in everyone's foot after we all tasted the comfort of firmly planted seeds. Just leave the seeds in the plots when they spoil, then you don't even need to recalculate the math.

 

 

 

 

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but this game is meant to be set in a post apocalyptic world. Even on day 7000, shouldn't the player constantly be starving and should always be in search for food? Unless they wish to consume crappy foods all the time, and in saying that the higher end recipes should be heavily regulated and farming, to some degree, discouraged.

 

You have to admit, farming was severely OP in A19. It was plant and forget, and within a few weeks you'd have enough food to feed an entire village. Man people do like their handouts.

 

^^^^^ Again, playing Devil's Advocate here.

[Adam the Waster]

I really like what iv seen of Alpha 20 (still haven't played it but watched it)

but i have One nit pick (as i always do)
Pipe gun cost...

5 glue, 10 pipes and some wood to get a Pipe SMG, Im not sure thats how that works!

ether way i love the look of everything and i can't wait to get my ass Wrecked due to how rusty i am

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

4 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Well you would at least expect to find a side arm or ammo on a belt holster.

Or a bullet proof vest on a torso.

Or a M-16 on a dead solders body.

If a solder was on a mounted gun and died shooting.

His standard issue weapon would be near his corpse.

I could see a truck having a shovel, chains, spare gas and a tool kit.

But not a 1800's style pick axe with a wooden handle.

as for items moving from their intended place.

The survivor may have beamed to earth years after society fell.

But the rad zone suggest everyone died by high yield nuclear devices.

That everyone died swiftly quickly.  

 

On this note, one thing that really aggravates me is breaking into a sealed up Working Stiffs crate only to find two stone shovels, or a stone axe. Wtf 🙄

[Aldranon]

6 minutes ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

 

On this note, one thing that really aggravates me is breaking into a sealed up Working Stiffs crate only to find two stone shovels, or a stone axe. Wtf 🙄

 

My spin on it was there were two apocalypses.  After the first one(a nuclear war), things started to rebuild, then the zombie apocalypse hit. 

 

That would explain primitive things in sealed containers.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Aldranon (see edit history)

[SnowDog1942]

50 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

i can't wait to get my ass Wrecked

 

Let me know if you need help with that