Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[shorgan]

21 minutes ago, pyronical said:

I'm gonna assume this has been asked a million times and I apologise that my scrolling-fu is not up to scratch but what time CST is the release of Alpha 20 on Monday?

Official Release Date: Monday December 6, 2021

(from page 1)

[pyronical]

1 minute ago, shorgan said:

Official Release Date: Monday December 6, 2021

(from page 1)

Yes. That is not a time, it is a date.

[doughphunghus]

10 minutes ago, pyronical said:

Yes. That is not a time, it is a date.

well... its a date...in time!

 

This was posted which seems to show the time it may actually come out on Monday/Tuesday (basically depending on the Timezone you're in).  I've also seen some whispers it may go a bit early if things go well, but yeah it appears its all still "sometime Monday, unless something really bad pops up"

 

CLICK ON THE TOP HEADER by SylenThunder to get to SylenThunder's post/chart, not the body of this as it just takes you to the top post in that thread. ALSO: See the post right above it for the "estimated time of release"

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by doughphunghus (see edit history)

[Star69]

Roland has mentioned that it will release in the afternoon CST depending on the number of bugs they have to fix so an exact time cannot be given.

[Khalagar]

So after watching tons of streams and reading tons of feedback on Reddit / here etc, it seems like the general reception so far is

 

• World gen is amazing
• New PoI are awesome
• New Zombie models are amazing
• Pipe Weapons are a very neat addition to make early game more enjoyable
• Feral Sense is extremely fun for those wanting a challenge

The main negatives I'm seeing consistently brought up are

 

• Farming changes being RNG based / feeling bad
• AI Pathing issues
• Performance can be awful and cause the game to hitch like mad (MisutoM seems to get horrible memory leaks after 5-6 hours of streaming as well)
• Drone not scaling with Intellect perks (I'm not the only one talking about this shockingly)

 

Overall the reception seems super positive, and the cons are mostly all things that can be rebalanced or smoothed pretty easily.

 

[Astronomical]

8 hours ago, bachgaman said:

Keyword - "if"

36 minutes ago, Eighmy_Lupin said:

You're fooling yourself if you think TFPs are making nothing with what is essentially free advertising. 

 

Also can a game get an update without fans freaking out like the world is coming to an end? I mean I get the feeling most of you are adults who have been gaming for years, so you should know better.

 

Keyword - "should" 😀

[faatal]

2 hours ago, pyronical said:

I'm gonna assume this has been asked a million times and I apologise that my scrolling-fu is not up to scratch but what time CST is the release of Alpha 20 on Monday?

We have made 3 builds since the streamer release and there is no final build yet, so we don't know. The team will be meeting around noon to discuss.

[bachgaman]

58 minutes ago, Eighmy_Lupin said:

You're fooling yourself if you think TFPs are making nothing with what is essentially free advertising. 

Did I say the opposite somewhere?

I asked how many bugs they found and expressed hope for some public outcome of this event. That's all.

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

4 hours ago, POCKET951 said:

I like this idea.

but how about this?

 

why not leave the seeds when you harvest, but instead have a 50% chance to yield from the crops when you harvest so  there are 2 out comes

 

A) you harvest it and get the appropriate resources and it goes back to a seedling

B) you harvest it and get 0 resources and it becomes a seedling

and you could even have a percentage for partial harvest maybe?

 

You create the exact same amount of scarcity without all the hassle or frustrating outcomes

 

All of this, but with the other suggestion.

 

A. Seeds remain and 1 crop.

B. Seeds remain and multiple crops*

 

*Depending on Living off the Land perk level.

 

Btw for those who claim farming is or was OP, I'd first like to know what's OP about it - and before they answer that, hold the perk name in the forefront of their minds:

 

'Living Off The Land.'

 

Not struggling, not tedious artificial slowdown of food production, but living.

 

(IBTT - In Before the Thriving 😬 )

Edited December 6, 2021 by Beelzebubs Ghost (see edit history)

[bachgaman]

1 minute ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

 

All of this, but with the other suggestion.

 

A. Seeds remain and 1 crop.

B. Seeds remain and multiple crops*

 

*Depending on Living off the Land perk level.

 

Btw for those eho claim farming is or was OP, I'd first like to know what's OP about it - and before they answer that, hold the perk name in the forefront of their minds:

 

'Living Off The Land.'

 

Not struggling, not tedious artificial slowdown of food production, but living.

 

(IBTT - In Before the Thriving 😬 )

Why is everyone whining about new farming? The old mechanic was really OP and also incredibly boring. You just got a whole plantation from several potatoes in a matter of days. It's too easy. It looks bad. It's the OP. That being said, use a cheat menu or mod, or edit the xml files to get as many stacks of food as you need. And stop complaining.

[Rizno]

Making food hard to come by even with farming is an improvement. But with everything, should be customizable for the more casual players, I guess.

[Ladarian]

17 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Why is everyone whining about new farming? 

Since when was finding food ever a problem without farming?  Has food survival changed that much with A20?

[ltbrunt]

I say release it with bugs as long as they don't cause the game to crash. I have been playing this game through every version bugs and all. Would be happy if A20 releases Friday afternoon, this  way I can get my in-game all weekend grind going. When there is a new 7DTD release I basically don't do anything for few weeks, all life productivity goes down the drain. 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

32 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Why is everyone whining about new farming? The old mechanic was really OP and also incredibly boring. You just got a whole plantation from several potatoes in a matter of days. It's too easy. It looks bad. It's the OP. That being said, use a cheat menu or mod, or edit the xml files to get as many stacks of food as you need. And stop complaining.

 

Looking at it for what it is in A19, a sensible and functional system that doesn't need to be molested, couldn't I just use the exact same reasoning and say:

 

'Those who don't like farming, mod your server or individual game to remove seeds full stop, or just don't farm.'

 

Just looking at both scenarios fairly. For those who don't mind any change to farming or who just don't use it, why on earth would there be any reasonable objection to leaving it the way it was? It baffles me.

 

Given the option to mod it out or not use it seems far more reasonable than everyone losing out on something that works and having to mod it back in, all for a number of individuals who couldn't care less about the topic at hand. Bizarre.

 

Enough damage was done removing the hoe and fertiliser and the nomadic tilling of any land, anywhere.

 

That was honestly, in my opinion, one of the most incredible additions to 7 Days, and in introducing it, the developers created a level of intimacy and involvement that I have never experienced in another survival game.

 

Then it was axed...

Edited December 6, 2021 by Beelzebubs Ghost (see edit history)

[Khalagar]

32 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Why is everyone whining about new farming? The old mechanic was really OP

 

People aren't complaining about farming being nerfed to encourage using the perk, people are complaining about the RNG aspect which is not fun and can lead to very unhappy moments, like MisutoM showed in his message on it.  If you take the quest reward for farm items instead of for a gun or bike or something, and get your farm plots and seeds, and have 1 point in living off the land, you can still lose all your seeds after your first harvest with bad RNG, in which case as the player, you are going to ne unhappy that you didn't just take the bicycle or gun

 

If they want to nerf farming, they can just make it take longer to grow a plant and let living off the land increase growth speed. That way there's no RNG to punish you for daring to try to farm before you have the perk line completely maxed out. The current implementation is basically "Don't touch farming without max perk" because you can lose your entire seed stock

 

 

Also, the current method takes way longer and requires a ton more player intervention, which is not fun. It's not a fun use of time to screw around with trying to open menus and craft seeds and drag and drop to hot bars and rearrange things etc just to replant your crops, compared to the current system where you *don't* have to do that and can instead use your time to do something actually enjoyable

[Astronomical]

On 12/4/2021 at 8:22 AM, MechanicalLens said:

My only real concern about the farming is super corn. What if you get to the point where you run out of the stuff, seeds included?

 

and then by bad RNG you are left with nothing to plant.

 

I understand we are talking about a game but this scenario has a serious basis in real life. It's the reason for seed banks.

 

While I will usually choose game play over realism, I don't see why sometimes they can't align nicely to create a fun and authentic experience.

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

I think this may be a great opportunity since it's still very early on for the developers to poll, and gain feedback from the players.

 

When we all get to test A20 we can provide proper reflections and they can then decide whether the system should be kept or scrapped.

 

Only a suggestion, and a thought from me 🙄

 

6 minutes ago, Astronomical said:

 

I understand we are talking about a game but this scenario has a serious basis in real life. It's the reason for seed banks.

 

While I will usually choose game play over realism, I don't see why sometimes they can't align nicely to create a fun and authentic experience.

 

I see and appreciate exactly where you're coming from, but by the sounds of this change the only thing its added is tedium and frustration. What it's taken away; potentially, at any rate, is precisely what Khalagar has articulated.

 

Plus, where does it stop? Why aren't we loading bullets into clips one at a time, for example? Or any one of a mass of other tasks in game that don't accurately reflect real life time consumption...

Edited December 6, 2021 by Beelzebubs Ghost (see edit history)

[bdubyah]

I think people are overreacting a bit to the farming changes. At least let the public build come out and try it for yourself. I think it sounds good on paper, and will probably like it because I enjoy the survival side of the game. 

 

You want easy to collect and craft foods? Gotta spend the time tending to your farm. Why does that seem so crazy to people? Crops die in irl all the time. Deal with it. Get the perk high enough you collect enough to negate any potential losses and move on. You won't spend any more time farming for food than people who prefer to scavenge it will spend looting. And it's safer. So seems like a fair balance to me. Yeah, rng could bend you over a few times and make getting the farm going a bit more difficult, but I'd look at that as a good thing. You'll always remember that when you start a new game later on. Lol. 

 

People cried when the hoe and fertilizer were cut, saying they made it too easy and simple. Now they are barely going the other direction and people are crying again. Suck it up and give it a chance. 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

17 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

 People cried when the hoe and fertilizer were cut, saying they made it too easy and simple. Now they are barely going the other direction and people are crying again. Suck it up and give it a chance. 

 

Not true, not in my case at any rate. 

 

The hoe and fertiliser took work and planning, but they were investments and paid off for the effort it took to till and fertilise the ground. 

 

My major objection on that front was not having the option of wild planting AND farm plot boxes, but even that wasn't the end of the world because plants degraded to plantlings which was a saving grace, a pretty cool addition from the devs.

 

Now that's being messed with. That's where the objection lies - with the aforementioned reasons from others on the forums, and some testers, if I have understood correctly.

 

Just to touch again on the previous posters point about reallistic style farming, and the previous talk of mods, if those who don't bother farming won't be affected either way, then why do realists not use mods?

 

A genuine and serious question, because if it's more realistic farming that players want, then the amazing skills of some of the modding community would probably produce a farming mod with serious depth to scratch that itch.

 

This could include things like fertilising and watering soil, and plants themselves, and maybe even pruning or cutting tools or collecting baskets in order to harvest.

 

All I would like is to have the system left alone, or at very least, the replanting mechanic left alone, even if yield is nerfed.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Beelzebubs Ghost (see edit history)

[khzmusik]

1 hour ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

For those who don't mind any change to farming or who just don't use it, why on earth would there be any reasonable objection to leaving it the way it was?

 

I like the changes because I did use farming, in nearly all of my playthroughs, and I found it OP. Once you planted a crop you basically had an AFK food production factory that got exponentially better over time.

 

That being said, I have already seen some suggestions that I think would improve the current system:

• Higher "living off the land" perk levels would reduce the number of "fruits" required to craft a seed - this would make the perk more valuable
• Instead of getting a seed back 50% of the time, have it downgrade to a planted crop in its initial state (like it does now except only 50% of the time) - this would reduce the tedium of re-planting the seeds

Also, the "anywhere, with a hoe" farming was apparently changed for technical reasons, they added a new distant terrain system that is incompatible with that farming mechanic. (I only recently learned this.)

 

And also note that the "hoe" system was basically the same as what is in A20, except there was no chance of getting a seed back. When you harvested your crops the existing plants disappeared and you never got seeds back. (At least that's what I remember from A16,)

Edited December 6, 2021 by khzmusik
grammar (see edit history)

[Blake_]

 

7 minutes ago, khzmusik said:

 

I like the changes because I did use farming, in nearly all of my playthroughs, and I found it OP. Once you plant a crop you basically had an AFK food production factory that got exponentially better over time.

 

That being said, I have already seen some suggestions that I think would improve the current system:

• Higher "living off the land" perk levels would reduce the number of "fruits" required to craft a seed - this would make the perk more valuable
• Instead of getting a seed back 50% of the time, have it downgrade to a planted crop in its initial state (like it does now except only 50% of the time) - this would reduce the tedium of re-planting the seeds

Also, the "anywhere, with a hoe" farming was apparently changed for technical reasons, they added a new distant terrain system that is incompatible with that farming mechanic. (I only recently learned this.)

 

And also note that the "hoe" system was basically the same as what is in A20, except there was no chance of getting a seed back. When you harvested your crops the existing plants disappeared and you never got seeds back. (At least that's what I remember from A16,)

Increased yield = your higher seed chance suggestion.

They might appear to be different things but crops make seeds, so you will not be displeased by the result.

 

Tedium = not a problem really. Better than AFK ketchup factory in a survival game.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Blake_ (see edit history)

[Guppycur]

I don't farm so forgive my ignorance.  It sounds like the changes are more in line with how valheim does it, is that accurate? 

 

Full disclosure...

 

...I also don't farm in that game.

[hiemfire]

A20 streamer exp release farming is more realistic? My ass. More realistic would be only needing one ear, gourd, plant, or tuber to craft seeds for 3+ plots, a much longer growing time (several game weeks would properly emulate it, though grow times less than 12 game weeks would be short), more incremental maintenance and a yield per plant more along the lines of the tier 3 perk as the base line. Stuff the "more realistic" argument.

 

A20 streamer exp release farming is one of the key devs thinking people in a survival situation doing what people in a survival situation will do if there is stuff available, focus on stock piling as much as they can incase something @%$#ty happens to the point where anything outside their 1km*1km area means little beyond achieving that till it is stable, is wrong for a "survival" game.

 

Honestly the conflict may come from competing perspectives on what a "survival" game entails. The "Rocks are falling, every one is dying, see how long you last before you die, but you will die horribly since this is humanity's extinction you're living in" predetermined end mindset vs the "Hey, @%$#'s gotten bad but we can rebuild" open world game mind set. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Crater Creator
vulgar (see edit history)

[khzmusik]

6 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

 

Tedium = not a problem really. Better than AFK ketchup factory in a survival game.

 

 

Honestly, my suspicion is that the people who don't like this change, aren't actually interested in playing a survival game. They're more interested in playing an FPS, and the "survival" aspects are just annoyances that you get through once you're past early game. You can see this in people who focus on adding more weapons or zombie variations and don't really care about much else. (Not that I'm against those things.)

[Astronomical]

47 minutes ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

Just to touch again on the previous posters point about reallistic style farming, and the previous talk of mods, if those who don't bother farming won't be affected either way, then why do realists not use mods?

 

My previous post was not to say that I preferred a realistic approach to farming in 7dtd, just that the new balancing changes happened to more reflect it.

 

Apparently many others in addition to myself, including the devs, found a19 farming to be too easy for this type of game. However, it does seem to be a system that is still being balanced so who knows.. you may be happy with the end result. If not there's always mods.

 

To be clear though, people that want to play the game in the most balanced way as presented by the devs should be able to play on default. Those who would like the game made easier (a19 farming for example) or much harder should be the ones to use mods.