Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[pyronical]

21 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

If the canned goods explode destroying the containers, including vending machines and traders/players, they're in instead of spoiling then I'd be for it.

Even inside their bellies? Gotta make sure you poop before blood moon!

[Aldranon]

To make some additional money TFP could add:

 

-a Tier 4 and 5 City Center package.

-an extended quest line with an actual human settlement!  (Maybe 10-20 people)  (Once bandits are ready!)

-A skins and cloths package (very cheap maybe $0.99)

The list could be endless!

[Astronomical]

8 minutes ago, Aldranon said:

To make some additional money TFP could add:

 

-a Tier 4 and 5 City Center package.

-an extended quest line with an actual human settlement!  (Maybe 10-20 people)  (Once bandits are ready!)

-A skins and cloths package (very cheap maybe $0.99)

The list could be endless!

 

Are you advocating paid DLC!!! 🤔

 

[bdubyah]

39 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

Their math was correct, they were just starting from a flawed initial assumption that the 50% return is guaranteed.

Meh, same difference. Still means it's probably off by a bit. And obviously early on hitting a run of bad luck of losing seeds could kill your farm for a bit till you find more seeds. Which to me is a good thing. And also, maybe just give it a chance and see how it feels, not what it seems like it will be after putting together a probability table.

 

For all the people complaining about this change, I haven't really seen any suggestions on what else could be done to balance food. Someone said in all games food is never a problem after early game. That isn't really helpful and just means most games haven't come up with a good solution/don't care enough to make changes. Spoilage is one, and I think would work well in this game if it was how ARK's is. It just doesn't work well in that game because most things are stupid easy to get. But in 7 Days when you only have a small stack of corn or something, losing one every few hours or whatever would be a much bigger deal. To me, a farm, even fully perked into, should maybe barely sustain you. As in, you would need to still do at least some hunting or scavenging to supplement the farm. Fully perked out you could go longer between those hunting/scavenging trips, but you couldn't ignore it completely or it would cost you.

 

Just my opinions though. I know they have to balance for somewhere in the middle of their player base, and I'm on the side that would prefer more challenging, unforgivings survival elements.

[Khalagar]

I feel like Rimworld / Stellaris style DLC is the future for the game. Each of these new Alphas could mostly be a new DLC package on their own if not for all the base game changing stuff.

 

People get their pantsu in a twist over games like Stellaris that have a bajillion DLC, but those are some of my favorite games, so I like when a new update comes out and brings you back to the game after an 8 month break

[Aldranon]

10 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

I feel like Rimworld / Stellaris style DLC is the future for the game. Each of these new Alphas could mostly be a new DLC package on their own if not for all the base game changing stuff.

 

People get their pantsu in a twist over games like Stellaris that have a bajillion DLC, but those are some of my favorite games, so I like when a new update comes out and brings you back to the game after an 8 month break

 

DLC's are the way small game companies survive.  Another small game company is Paradox Games.  They make all kinds of war games and survive by selling DLC's.

[Laz Man]

Excited to hear all of your impressions after tomorrow.  Apart from the streamer weekend hype train, the team did get alot of fixes/adjustments in from it.  Hopefully that translates into an even more polished release for everyone else come tomorrow.  😁

 

[unholyjoe]

1 hour ago, pyronical said:

Ok I understand now, that is definitely a welcome change I think.  I am sick of seeing massive community gardens making food trivial for anyone even new starters.

this is so true... but and i mean it in a nice way as to not offend anyone.... play it as is and learn to adapt and then we are back to square one because the rough parts are at the start to scramble to keep food in belly... dont make it a point to keep the food bar at top notch but keep it up enough to not get a penalty and after you get used to how fast food drains (until) you perks into a few things then it will get easier to manage.

 

changes are what kills the players if they arent willing to learn to adapt to those changes and over come them.

 

seriously, probably within a week we will see people complaining how easy it is and the changes are easy to over come.

[hiemfire]

7 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

And obviously early on hitting a run of bad luck of losing seeds could kill your farm for a bit till you find more seeds. Which to me is a good thing. And also, maybe just give it a chance and see how it feels, not what it seems like it will be after putting together a probability table.

That extremely likely early run of bad "luck" can and probably will kill farming for all but the most diehard "survival" players, like yourself.

 

Also, my position isn't just from running a probability estimate, it comes from having watched the 50% seed return in action and having played other games with similar rng systems.

 

Players are going to be lucky to have even a rudimentary farm going late mid game (GS 80 - 90 or so) without focusing almost entirely on it to the detriment of everything else they need to do to prep for 7th days and with the parallel nerfing of food in loot, the increased food and water drain implemented in A19, and the crap return from the basic cooked goods even the ones that don't have their sprint key krazy glued down will be having to do multiple consecutive horde nights starving. If any more than a third of the players that have picked this game up keep playing past the start of hour 8 then TFP should count their blessings.

[Khalagar]

5 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Excited to hear all of your impressions after tomorrow.  Apart from the streamer weekend hype train, the team did get alot of fixes/adjustments in from it.  Hopefully that translates into an even more polished release for everyone else come tomorrow.  😁

 

 

Aw, having to work on the weekend. Hopefully the general reception has been encouraging / positive for them and not just overly negative on the drone / farming  etc stuff

[hiemfire]

On @Khalagar's note: Game looks beautiful. The RWG in the pregen I've had the pleasure to see is sweet. I'm liking what I've seen of the new entry tier weapons, especially the multi target ability the pipe baton looks to have (saw allot of normal swings being able to hit 2-3 enemies at a time triggering a bunch of multi-staggers and a few double knockdowns). Glad to see the aoe speew for the new rad zombie that was mentioned when the render for it was teased got implemented. Makes me wish I could nametag one and use it as a glowing fountain , it'd light things up nicely.

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

33 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

this is so true... but and i mean it in a nice way as to not offend anyone.... play it as is and learn to adapt and then we are back to square one because the rough parts are at the start to scramble to keep food in belly... dont make it a point to keep the food bar at top notch but keep it up enough to not get a penalty and after you get used to how fast food drains (until) you perks into a few things then it will get easier to manage.

 

changes are what kills the players if they arent willing to learn to adapt to those changes and over come them.

 

seriously, probably within a week we will see people complaining how easy it is and the changes are easy to over come.

 

What happens to all the players that play alone or in nomadic small groups that want to set up and grab some food for their travels, to see them over a few days?

 

Solution? Slider, or some other option to diminish crops.

 

Not a solution? Blanketing everyone to appease those who don't farm and/or are relatively indifferent to it, and/or who have been almost mute about this until the change, and/or haven't expressed great feedback in public displays of joy regarding mods that added such realistic depth to farming.

 

That mind sound biased, and though I am personally, (that is biased in favour of retaining the old system based on what I've heard, which doesn't need the qualifier but I will add it anyway - but am yet to experience), I seek to point out the reality of relative quiet until the new changes.

 

Reminds me of the number of people who wanted digging zombies, many justifying the addition in their opposition to underground bases, or who just never built them. Now zombies dig and for single players that want a refuge for a single horde, they get dug down to. Much like the seemingly redundant crop yield and the mechanic of seeds disappearing, zombie digging came with the understanding that respawning (underground and elsewhere) would disengage the horde unless you went back into the fray.

 

It's just very weird...

Edited December 6, 2021 by Beelzebubs Ghost (see edit history)

[Gazz]

3 hours ago, Guppycur said:

I don't farm so forgive my ignorance.  It sounds like the changes are more in line with how valheim does it, is that accurate?

 

In A19 you could farm and have exponential growth with 0 points invested. Now you need to have at least 1 point invested to make a profit.

[Marinxar]

1 hour ago, Aldranon said:

To make some additional money TFP could add:

 

-a Tier 4 and 5 City Center package.

-an extended quest line with an actual human settlement!  (Maybe 10-20 people)  (Once bandits are ready!)

-A skins and cloths package (very cheap maybe $0.99)

The list could be endless!

 

Yeah, I been advocating for something like this as well. It's been many years that we have enjoyed the free development of the game. Once it goes Gold, they should really add a few nice packages as paid DLC. 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

3 minutes ago, Gazz said:

 

In A19 you could farm and have exponential growth with 0 points invested. Now you need to have at least 1 point invested to make a profit.

 

Can you just give a straight answer to one question please Gazz...

 

Will max spec in Living Off the Land guarantee replant or seed return? 

[Gazz]

It currently does not just like going hunting or looting a POI does not guarantee finding food.

 

Multiple people have posted that it's a 50% chance. A chance means that it is not guaranteed.

[pyronical]

Thanks Gazz, now sneak into the vault and press the big red button marked RELEASE A20.

 

I am bored.

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

6 minutes ago, Gazz said:

It currently does not just like going hunting or looting a POI does not guarantee finding food.

 

Multiple people have posted that it's a 50% chance. A chance means that it is not guaranteed.

 

Thank you for the reply.

 

Given that maximum perking still gives nothing but chance harvest, that will be one of the first thingd I seek to mod out.

 

I find the change absurd and damaging to farming (under the assumption of your information being correct and not subject to change,) but the developers will do as they please.

 

Oh well.

[pyronical]

2 minutes ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

 

Thank you for the reply.

 

Given that maximum perking still gives nothing but chance harvest, that will be one of the first thingd I seek to mod out.

 

I find the change absurd and damaging to farming (under the assumption of your information being correct and not subject to change,) but the developers will do as they please.

 

Oh well.

 

To his point though, do you then think there should be a perk to guarantee hunting drops or finding food in pantries/fridges etc?   I always ended up with an infinite supply of seeds in A19, I'd end up building a few stacks of each seed and then just having to chuck them out whenever I harvested it.  The nerf seems necessary. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by pyronical (see edit history)

[Khalagar]

26 minutes ago, Gazz said:

 

In A19 you could farm and have exponential growth with 0 points invested. Now you need to have at least 1 point invested to make a profit.

 

I feel like people are fine with that, it's more just the rng that's the issue, since even with 1 point you can lose the gamble and go negative. Which isn't that big of a deal for normal crops, it's more just that if it happens on your super corn you will be pretty salty

[POCKET951]

For the record I do think farming yield/harvest needs rebalancing.  I just think the current iteration goes about it in a way that doesn't actually address the issue because it's still just as strong with full investment. Except it is way more tedious and frustrating to get there.

 

There are other solutions that would accomplish TFP's goal that would also not be mega tedious or unfun. They could even do the old system except instead of guaranteed +1 or +2 it would be a chance.and you could add a 10% chance to destroy seeds

 

Why can't something be balanced and fun?

 

 

Even a 50% chance to destroy a planted seed rather than a 50%chance to get a seed in your inventory would be a great QOL

Edited December 6, 2021 by POCKET951 (see edit history)

[POCKET951]

11 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

 

I feel like people are fine with that, it's more just the rng that's the issue, since even with 1 point you can lose the gamble and go negative. Which isn't that big of a deal for normal crops, it's more just that if it happens on your super corn you will be pretty salty

Super corn is super..so would it be bad if supercorn seeds could never be destroyed because they are super?

[Blake_]

43 minutes ago, Gazz said:

 

In A19 you could farm and have exponential growth with 0 points invested. Now you need to have at least 1 point invested to make a profit.

1 point in Living Off the Land in order to make a profit? Outrageous ! I want my thirty chests full of crops right now ! And without creative mode thank you very much. Also, please reduce 500% the prices of everything so I won't need Better Barter to be confortable. And in the meantime bump salvage operations to 1000% per level. I like my survival to be lenient on Sundays too, so make a 1 Zd Blood Moon so it's more family friendly. And make confetti the default entity death so my unborn child can play. He hates blue confetti though, just put in the other colours. 

 

Cheerios !

 

Edit: Would you please change the "Testing Trunk" wording to "Testing Log"? It sounds improved and right to my liking that way. It's for a friend, who is a Top Notch designer.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Blake_ (see edit history)

[Roland]

You know, when the auto resprout function was first announced  all the farmers were upset that farming had taken another hit. The manual action of planting the seed was seen as one of the essences of "farming" just as manually hoeing the ground to make it garden sod used to be. What if they removed planter boxes and went back to hoeing the ground with a hoe? Would that suddenly be more tedious gameplay having to physically hit the ground instead of being able to have plots crafting in the background while doing other actions and then placing them quickly and tedium-free?

 

Hit the ground, plant a seed, chop a tree, mine an ore, hit a zombie, accept a quest...It's all the same button press. People who really enjoy farming want to hoe the ground by hand, plant the seeds by hand, provide water, add fertilizer-- I mean those are the pimp dreams requests for farming we've been getting for years and the the complaints we got when it no longer mattered if you planted near a water source or needed fertilizer or hoed the ground or planted seeds after the initial planting were from people who legitimately liked the farming aspect of the game.

 

Now you guys against this are calling it tedious-- but you'll spend all night banging a pickaxe against the subterranean walls or upgrade 150 frames to better blocks pressing the exact same button the same number of times if not more. Its only tedious if you aren't really into it. People who don't care about building much find it tedious. People who don't care about mining find it tedious. People who aren't into farming find planting seeds tedious.

 

You'll have to see-- but for every one of you who finds it tedious there will be others who love being able to plant each time and reconfigure their crops by grouping how they plant their seeds differently and they will be glad of the change because they don't find it tedious. There are some that would love for a blueprint feature to replace brick by brick building because they find it tedious. Gather the resources and feed it into the blueprint and voila automatic base without any of the tedious block crafting, placing, and upgrading. Do you think our builders would like to get rid of the "tedium"?

 

I think some of the suggestions I've read are great and I wouldn't be against the devs adopting them if they decide to step away a bit from this change and compromise somewhat. But if they don't change it then what I really suspect is that teams will be sharing the farming load more. There won't just be that one guy designated as the farmer dude. He'll be like--I'm not planting this entire field myself. Everyone come help and then we'll go do a quest. That would be less tedious for sure.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

So much black and white thinking with this either/or.

 

Wouldn't have had issues if we had wild farm and box plots as I said. But speaking of the whole seed argument, then for the purposes of internal consistency, surely this whole mechanic must also apply to trees, right?

 

They are just wood crops which can be wild planted 🤔