Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[JamesKirk]

We also! But it's always a very solid base out of concrete in a 9x9 grid.

[Matt115]

14 hours ago, Blake_ said:

Torches, campfires and forges do increase heat in an area. Breaking things also does. The rate? The more campfires, forges ...etc,   the faster screamers will come once they start coming, with little pause in between.

Shooting, breaking wood spikes over again and also hitting metal are good ways to call a screamer.

 

Smell is no longer a thing, but I would love to see zds and animals attack storage containers made by the player (with food inside). That would be awesome and a good way to bring a part of that gameplay without performace drawbacks.

This would be annoying as hell - why? because we have smell in the past and it  wasn't cool. More? this would need to recreate a lot of things again and make scavenging very rare and early stage- why? because the best option would be sitting in base to avoid to be destroyed when you are not there- so mining would be to risk , finding parts of tools and weapons and doing quest not effective- so people would mostry create spikes because to avoid being rushed .

14 hours ago, doughphunghus said:

This could be neat, especially since most people don't worry about losing resources to zeds unless they dig under your base and drop it.  If they attacked "your stuff" you would have an incentive to build your base to also also protect your possessions (and while looting, like in your vehicle/temp storage), and zeds might path (and destroy) to your chests/workstations/generators/etc instead of just you, so you couldn't just leave them unattended (maybe without traps/protection/etc.

Well if zombie would focusing on this stiff it would be just bad because- zombie are going to be stronger and stronger so if you one time lose 1-2 chest you woudn't to "run" in this " arms race"

5 hours ago, Gazz said:

That only enforces more gamey behaviour like placing your horde base far away from your living base.

I don't see why you would want that.

Well i think some people just want to play as hard game as possible-  like dwarves fortress but this type of games have one big problem- is just unpopular so maybe only 100 -1000 people would buy it. Yeah ds3 is hard but you only will lose 1 hour if you do something wrong, this same in total war , biding of issac etc. But if you can play 20 and you can lose everything because small bug or mistake this will  discourage most people to play this game

[Laz Man]

Entities attacking food storage is too gamey for my tastes.  Since a food spoilage system at this point is very unlikely, I think the following could be alternatives.

 

1) Food abundance setting for loot and/or harvest (e.g. 25% 50%  etc.)

 

Since food scarcity is subjective based on many different factors (e.g. number of players, player skill, etc.)

 

2) Food sink at higher levels (e.g. more upper tier food recipes with better incentives, quest related turn ins, etc.)

[Trankitas]

Is there an estimate of MF's left? My anxiety is killing me already.

[Blake_]

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

Entities attacking food storage is too gamey for my tastes.  Since a food spoilage system at this point is very unlikely, I think the following could be alternatives.

 

1) Food abundance setting for loot and/or harvest (e.g. 25% 50%  etc.)

 

Since food scarcity is subjective based on many different factors (e.g. number of players, player skill, etc.)

 

2) Food sink at higher levels (e.g. more upper tier food recipes with better incentives, quest related turn ins, etc.)

I like all of those and we can say that they are a given in the long term (7dtd design is targeting exactly what you say) though I was aiming for more of an emergent gameplay situation instead of "game rules". Right now there are only screamers and wandering hordes. Sure, a future random encounter system would trump everything suggested on the subject, but in the mean time....

 

The easiest way to put something of the likes would probably be an additional AI predator behaviour that let's some predators have a chance (small?) to attack storage containers (easiest thing would be that they occasionally target ALL of the containers placed by the player). That behaviour would result in emergent gameplay and it would be cool as predators are scarce on day time in the forest, which is the starting biome. It could probably be disabled for the night, idk.  If it's too much of a "meals on wheels", we shall then wait for most of the animals being Zds (pet project? and my wishful thinking!) so we wouldn't get extra food at all.

 

A loot percentage for food is awesome, yet I would settle for the general kind if it had more crazy abundance options , like (6%-12%-25%-50%-75%-100%-200%-300%-500% )

[Matt115]

13 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

I like all of those and we can say that they are a given in the long term (7dtd design is targeting exactly what you say) though I was aiming for more of an emergent gameplay situation instead of "game rules". Right now there are only screamers and wandering hordes. Sure, a future random encounter system would trump everything suggested on the subject, but in the mean time....

 

The easiest way to put something of the likes would probably be an additional AI predator behaviour that let's some predators have a chance (small?) to attack storage containers (easiest thing would be that they occasionally target ALL of the containers placed by the player). That behaviour would result in emergent gameplay and it would be cool as predators are scarce on day time in the forest, which is the starting biome. It could probably be disabled for the night, idk.  If it's too much of a "meals on wheels", we shall then wait for most of the animals being Zds (pet project? and my wishful thinking!) so we wouldn't get extra food at all.

 

A loot percentage for food is awesome, yet I would settle for the general kind if it had more crazy abundance options , like (6%-12%-25%-50%-75%-100%-200%-300%-500% )

Ehh no - people keep a lot of things in this same storage-  food with guns for example  etc. so this idea is just bad for gameplay. zombies can destroy a lot because you can't just find this one zombie which stuck somewhere- so: if 7dtd have buidling limits- you can put only wooden structures and workstations+ traps and elecrtisity and zombie can only destroy wooden blocks ( and door as no wood ) and placed by players i could agree.

[Gamida]

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

Entities attacking food storage is too gamey for my tastes.  Since a food spoilage system at this point is very unlikely, I think the following could be alternatives.

 

1) Food abundance setting for loot and/or harvest (e.g. 25% 50%  etc.)

 

Since food scarcity is subjective based on many different factors (e.g. number of players, player skill, etc.)

 

2) Food sink at higher levels (e.g. more upper tier food recipes with better incentives, quest related turn ins, etc.)

I always think different levels of food as a moot point with the food level being tied to your stamina. I always want my stamina as high as possible so it rarely drops below 80%. I don't need any high level foods but just keep loads of bacon and eggs for topping up. Or even gulp down some canned ones as I find them. Cooking is not a big thing for me in game. Usually just the one point in master chef.

[Blake_]

Food is solved on day 1 if you invest 1 point in Animal Tracker. You don't even need to expend another on perks like huntsman perk, chef or iron gut. Chickens and rabbits are plenty and easy enough to hunt with not much practice.

 

Animals could use some serious zombification to avoid too much food. Food in loot can be tied to a game option (like Lazman Said). 

 

The "storage attacking" might not be best if abused, or at all even. Could be fun as a tiny chance niche behaviour that gives flavour to the game. Like the one vulture that can spawn in the forest sometimes.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Blake_ (see edit history)

[unholyjoe]

1 hour ago, Trankitas said:

Is there an estimate of MF's left? My anxiety is killing me already.

it is virtual yoyo

 

where should i send the flowers for your funeral?

[Khalagar]

I'm surprised how many people massively over think / over design their horde base lol. I use my main base as my horde base for the first couple of weeks, then usually just build my "horde base" like 30 feet away and just walk over to it on a horde night, and the only reason I build it there instead of using my main base, is just for cheaper repairs / easier to design two instead of smash two designs together

 

It's like, the simplest base design possible but will handle at least up to like day 28 lol

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

If you want an essentially unbeatable horde base, you can just build a staircase with a platform at the top lol. Literally just a stair case + 2 junk sledges + you standing there throwing molotovs / pipebombs at the "catching area" will solo late game stage hordes on the max difficulty with 16+ zombies per person. You can basically fight an infinite amount of zombies as long as you don't hit the junk sledges with an explosive, you just gotta watch for cop spit and vultures. Even demolishers usually get punched before they get to chest level / even if they blow up they blow up in the part I don't care about

 

Spoiler

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Khalagar (see edit history)

[Blake_]

1 hour ago, Trankitas said:

Is there an estimate of MF's left? My anxiety is killing me already.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Blake_ (see edit history)

[meganoth]

42 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

I'm surprised how many people massively over think / over design their horde base lol. I use my main base as my horde base for the first couple of weeks, then usually just build my "horde base" like 30 feet away and just walk over to it on a horde night, and the only reason I build it there instead of using my main base, is just for cheaper repairs / easier to design two instead of smash two designs together

 

It's like, the simplest base design possible but will handle at least up to like day 28 lol

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

If you want an essentially unbeatable horde base, you can just build a staircase with a platform at the top lol. Literally just a stair case + 2 junk sledges + you standing there throwing molotovs / pipebombs at the "catching area" will solo late game stage hordes on the max difficulty with 16+ zombies per person. You can basically fight an infinite amount of zombies as long as you don't hit the junk sledges with an explosive, you just gotta watch for cop spit and vultures. Even demolishers usually get punched before they get to chest level / even if they blow up they blow up in the part I don't care about

 

  Hide contents

 

 

I have never tried putting the pusher turrets directly on the access way for fear the zombies might attack the pusher. Do they just jump over it?

 

 

[Khalagar]

Yep they just go through it if it's in their path. They can't attack the turret directly / won't unless you made  your walls out of them or something, they just path around / over them normally. Not that they get much chance when getting flung back down the stairs. Zombies jump so slowly that they don't get time to finish their animation to jump to the block the turret is on before getting yeeted. Very few zombies make it to the second turret, and literally like 1 out of 500 makes it past the second turret, more just from some weird fluke or physics exploit than anything. I've used the staircase of doom design on like a dozen horde nights as a test, and only had to shotgun a single zombie that made it through I think

Edited November 1, 2021 by Khalagar (see edit history)

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Khalagar said:

Yep they just go through it if it's in their path. They can't attack the turret directly / won't unless you made  your walls out of them or something, they just path around / over them normally. Not that they get much chance when getting flung back down the stairs. Zombies jump so slowly that they don't get time to finish their animation to jump to the block the turret is on before getting yeeted. Very few zombies make it to the second turret, and literally like 1 out of 500 makes it past the second turret, more just from some weird fluke or physics exploit than anything. I've used the staircase of doom design on like a dozen horde nights as a test, and only had to shotgun a single zombie that made it through I think

 

Then what the heck are you in such need of a T3 baton then?

[Rabbitslovecactus]

@faatal  Is there a plan in the future to turn the woodstove into a functional stove that we can load wood and/or coal into and cook on that maybe has more benefits than a campfire? Thanks

[Jost Amman]

19 minutes ago, Rabbitslovecactus said:

@faatal  Is there a plan in the future to turn the woodstove into a functional stove that we can load wood and/or coal into and cook on that maybe has more benefits than a campfire? Thanks

M word.

[faatal]

On 10/31/2021 at 1:44 PM, Blake_ said:

@faatal I have a few questions about the Feral Sense Option:

 

1. The option is said to double the overall range of the entities (except Zombie bears, which you said they have a bit less than double for balance reasons) How much is it in numbers for a normal Zd/feral Zd/animal Zd ?

2. Does the range differ from entity to entity? Like normal zd: from 25 to 50 range with the option and a Feral zd from 40 to 80 or something like that?

3. Does the feral sense option apply only to biome spawns and random hordes or does it affect in any way for example an already awoken sleeper within a certain range?

4. Are living animals affected or only undead entities (including dogs and Zd bears) ?

1. It is just 3 values. Zombie 150% increase. Zombie bear 120%. Dog 160%.

2. No, because I think all zombies have same sight/hearing values.

3. All spawns

4. Only undead

[faatal]

11 hours ago, Trankitas said:

Is there an estimate of MF's left? My anxiety is killing me already.

103

[Khalagar]

8 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Then what the heck are you in such need of a T3 baton then?

 

For offense and  clearing PoI rather than for defense like the shown one. Int is good for defending on a horde night, but when it comes to actually clearing a PoI and doing quests you don't really have many options besides to set up a bunker and go aggro stuff and lead it back to your sledges / turrets and then fight in front of them etc.

 

It does work, it just takes like 12 times longer than just sprinting through with a club and shotgun and clearing everything lol. I'll usually set up my bunker before big infestation rooms with lots of zombies, but int is at it's weakest when it comes to clearing small rooms that aren't worth setting up a bunker on. If you don't use an off attribute weapon, it will take you ages to clear even a small PoI, or you'll drain your entire iron supply using turrets that can chew through a thousand iron in 30 seconds

 

A t3 baton might actually make the baton useful / competitive too. I did a whole run focusing on using the stun baton and it's mods etc instead of just using a club / fire axe like I typically do , and boy howdy was it an asymmetrical  playstyle! Those symmetical ones are all about just killing things that are dangerous to you and your friends, so it was a very experiencing experience to fight zombies with a wiffle ball bat on a sheet of ice.

 

I think I've got a video somewhere of me fighting one single non irradiated soldier for like 65 seconds while I chased him all over the house ragdoll sliding him while I beat on him with a maxxed out stun baton, until he finally died. I should have added some benny hill music to it

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Khalagar (see edit history)

[faatal]

5 hours ago, Rabbitslovecactus said:

@faatal  Is there a plan in the future to turn the woodstove into a functional stove that we can load wood and/or coal into and cook on that maybe has more benefits than a campfire? Thanks

Not that I've heard of.

[Mechanimal]

1 hour ago, Khalagar said:

 

For offense and  clearing PoI rather than for defense like the shown one. Int is good for defending on a horde night, but when it comes to actually clearing a PoI and doing quests you don't really have many options besides to set up a bunker and go aggro stuff and lead it back to your sledges / turrets and then fight in front of them etc.

 

It does work, it just takes like 12 times longer than just sprinting through with a club and shotgun and clearing everything lol. I'll usually set up my bunker before big infestation rooms with lots of zombies, but int is at it's weakest when it comes to clearing small rooms that aren't worth setting up a bunker on. If you don't use an off attribute weapon, it will take you ages to clear even a small PoI, or you'll drain your entire iron supply using turrets that can chew through a thousand iron in 30 seconds

 

A t3 baton might actually make the baton useful / competitive too. I did a whole run focusing on using the stun baton and it's mods etc instead of just using a club / fire axe like I typically do , and boy howdy was it an asymmetrical  playstyle! Those symmetical ones are all about just killing things that are dangerous to you and your friends, so it was a very experiencing experience to fight zombies with a wiffle ball bat on a sheet of ice.

 

I think I've got a video somewhere of me fighting one single non irradiated soldier for like 65 seconds while I chased him all over the house ragdoll sliding him while I beat on him with a maxxed out stun baton, until he finally died. I should have added some benny hill music to it

 

Hmm, I usually play Int pretty heavily, but never ever have I bothered with a stun baton(have tried, but meh). Fav is a baseball bat for melee, but I mostly clear POIs via stealth with a bow, rarely do they get the chance to even wake up, and I only use a gun when I rly rly need to(in POIs), saving most ammo for BMs. I use an AK mid-late game as a stand-in for both a sniper(4x scope and semi-auto mod) and a shotgun(close range OH @%$# moments). But of course I still love my turrets, junk and 9mm/shotty for base, though I mostly use them on horde nights, still take a junk with me all the time, and it does often come in handy clearing POIs.

I also tend to save as much 9mm and shotgun ammo as I can for their respective turrets, hence using a bow and a 7.62 gun. And It's hard NOT to use a Deagle when I finally find one, and usually have a good amount of ammo saved up for when that day comes, but it's a for-fun thing mostly, because Deagle.

Anyway, maybe if the stun baton, of any level, were useful I'd try again, and I have tried it out, but 98+% of the time I never bother. Baseball bats are too fun anyway. Point is I see your point, but in my case I resolve it by just never using a stun baton at all, even when heavily spec'd into Int. So maybe I would if they did buff it or add higher levels to it.

*disclaimer: I play a ton of R6 Seige(#2 on my "time played" list. 2.3k hours vs 3.2k hrs in 7DTD), which is a highly strategic interior stealth game against other human players, so stealth killing AI zeds is super easy-peasy for me.)

Edited November 2, 2021 by Mechanimal
Spelling and added disclaimer... (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

1 hour ago, Khalagar said:

 

For offense and  clearing PoI rather than for defense like the shown one. Int is good for defending on a horde night, but when it comes to actually clearing a PoI and doing quests you don't really have many options besides to set up a bunker and go aggro stuff and lead it back to your sledges / turrets and then fight in front of them etc.

 

It does work, it just takes like 12 times longer than just sprinting through with a club and shotgun and clearing everything lol. I'll usually set up my bunker before big infestation rooms with lots of zombies, but int is at it's weakest when it comes to clearing small rooms that aren't worth setting up a bunker on. If you don't use an off attribute weapon, it will take you ages to clear even a small PoI, or you'll drain your entire iron supply using turrets that can chew through a thousand iron in 30 seconds

 

A t3 baton might actually make the baton useful / competitive too. I did a whole run focusing on using the stun baton and it's mods etc instead of just using a club / fire axe like I typically do , and boy howdy was it an asymmetrical  playstyle! Those symmetical ones are all about just killing things that are dangerous to you and your friends, so it was a very experiencing experience to fight zombies with a wiffle ball bat on a sheet of ice.

 

I think I've got a video somewhere of me fighting one single non irradiated soldier for like 65 seconds while I chased him all over the house ragdoll sliding him while I beat on him with a maxxed out stun baton, until he finally died. I should have added some benny hill music to it

 

 

So your saying you want the INT tree to be the king of defense AND offense? 😆

[Mechanimal]

1 minute ago, Laz Man said:

 

So your saying you want the INT tree to be the king of defense AND offense? 😆

 I mainly go INT for defense(turrets), and vehicles, and crafting, etc. Never have I ever once spent points on a baton, put points into stealth(damage) and bows instead. I don't even spend much on upgrades for bats(clubs) or rifles(AK/sniper), with a high headshot rate I don't need to, especially if they sleeping, heck I even stick with stone arrows for a rly long time, iron and steel arrows feel fancy an unnecessary to me, I need that kind of oomf I just pull out the AK, or a Deagle if I haz one. I do like the 9mm, but only sometimes use it, saving most(sometimes all) of my 9mm ammo for base turrets. 

Point is I don't need help from INT tree for offense, spec into it far more for it's utility. But that's me, just an example. Maybe Khal can try some other weapons, in other areas, if there's a need. 

[Khalagar]

  

12 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

 

So your saying you want the INT tree to be the king of defense AND offense? 😆

 

 

Nah, just have a weapon that can be used for clearing rooms would be nice. Like, I usually just use a Fire-axe powered by Miner 69 only and that's more than enough for a non raid boss level room, so something on par with that as a t3 int weapon would be nice. Int struggles really hard when there's a room with 3 normal zombies in it and you don't want to set down sledges and wait for  50 seconds while they ragdoll them around, and also don't want to set down your turrets and chew through 200 iron to kill 3 fodder zombies that you could kill with a wrench. You pretty much just have to carry off perk weapons with you to use as your actual primary weapon, and only use your intended build focused weapons for big rooms with 10+ zombies

 

Honestly, I haven't even ranted about the thing that's *most* in need of balancing for Int, the shotgun turret shells. Holy crap are those B A D. Like, "how did this even make it past QA" levels of badly balanced. Instead of making a real shotgun shell, you spend it making a shotgun turret shell, but the turret will rapid fire them out and burn through 25+ shells in a single fight against a fodder zombie shambling towards you from across a room. You are legit vastly better off carrying an unperked level 1 double barrel shotgun to use for your shotgun needs instead of packing shotgun shells into a junk turret because of how bad the return on investment is

Edited November 2, 2021 by Khalagar (see edit history)

[Mechanimal]

Also, omg Khal I cannot imagine attempting to kill anything radiated with a stun baton, not even a baseball bat, that there is an AK moment for me. Though the junk turret can be helpful alongside me, for sure.

3 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

  

 

 

Nah, just have a weapon that can be used for clearing rooms would be nice. Like, I usually just use a Fire-axe powered by Miner 69 only and that's more than enough for a non raid boss level room, so something on par with that as a t3 int weapon would be nice. Int struggles really hard when there's a room with 3 normal zombies in it and you don't want to set down sledges and wait for  50 seconds while they ragdoll them around, and also don't want to set down your turrets and chew through 200 iron to kill 3 fodder zombies that you could kill with a wrench. You pretty much just have to carry off perk weapons with you to use as your actual primary weapon, and only use your intended build focused weapons for big rooms with 10+ zombies

 

Honestly, I haven't even ranted about the thing that's *most* in need of balancing for Int, the shotgun turret shells. Holy crap are those B A D. Like, "how did this even make it past QA" levels of badly balanced. Instead of making a real shotgun shell, you spend it making a shotgun turret shell, but the turret will rapid fire them out and burn through 25+ shells in a single fight against a fodder zombie shambling towards you from across a room. You are legit vastly better off carrying an unperked level 1 double barrel shotgun to use for your shotgun needs instead of packing shotgun shells into a junk turret because of how bad the return on investment is

I only use my shotgun ammo for the stationary shotty turrets, never the junk variant. I stick with reg junk turrets all the way through, eventually having 2 of course. And I always put switches on them, only turned on if/when need be.