Food: Survival arcade vs Survival sim

[custom_hero]

7 hours ago, madmole said:

Я не говорил, что это будет легкая победа. Текущая установка была случайным потоком игроков, новых и старых. Нам все еще нужно балансировать, и, надеюсь, к 20-му году у нас может появиться слайдер изобилия продуктов питания, чтобы могли любить голодать. Но да, общая мысль заключается в том, почему мы тратим время на это, потому что никому нет дела до еды, им нужны бандиты и основной квест. Моддеры могут делать все что угодно для хардкорных людей, которые хотят выжить в более сложной еде. Джо, взорвать нового парня, не нужно перегружать имитацию первого дня еды.

 

3 hours ago, Ranzera said:

 

The question of the difference in player experience, solves 6 difficulty levels and fine-tuning the game. I played 1500 hours, everything ok for me.

You add drones, fantastic turrets. But in the game there is no boat (most part of the world is water), no electric stove, microwave, decorations very few.

There is electricity in the game.
But it is not used for the 2 most important things, for lighting (because no one uses them. thanks for aka gamma, delete gamma option), and for cooking.

There are electric doors that only work on opening from the sensor.  (need to configure the door opening in the opposite direction)

Basic things, add more textures to paint the blocks. We have problems in what to paint a box with resources, box with items for sell.
More realism, return human turd to the toilet. return (blood kit, craft mech part, elect part, vehicle quickly ended in a 4x4 world). 

I have a dedicated server, with many players I play in a co-op, people stopped building the farm, we need to simplify the crafting of the farm plot.

Google Translate©

 

 

[Dethar]

4 hours ago, Roland said:

Well, nothing said here is going to change anything until we’ve actually played it. Objections are noted and let’s see how it is received once in hand. Time to move on from this discussion. Food poisoning and spoilage are back To off topic in this thread.  Please do carry on the debate in GD, if you wish. 

Yay, respect Cartmans authority. Now we just need big wheel in game.

[Aldranon]

Trying to perfectly understand a player-base would require a lot of metrics. 

A good developer would accept all the metrics possible, but in the end, will make the game they are motivated to complete (for whatever reasons).

 

Paradox games, usually makes games for smarter than average players. That cuts them out of a large chunk of players, but they aren't too motivated to change.  Just look at any one of their "Dev Clash"'s on Youtube and you can see: They make the games, because they love to play the games.

 

Back to TFP, for their first game (I hope its just their first) it appears they want to appeal to as large a base as possible, this excludes making the game too complex, they're just trying to find the "Goldilocks zone".

 

Then, for a "Game 2" ("Al's Marina vs The Apocalypse" if you're looking for a title) they can experiment more on things that motivate them to play.

[Gamida]

14 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

I don't really care if my meat storage box is called fridge or crate, I will manage 😀 Not sure a fire pit under the fridge makes the fridge really work better

 

We probably want the same thing here: An electrical stove so we don't need to micro-manage wood to put into the campfire. Right?

  I was wondering years ago how a propane fridge did it's thing. I never understood how an open flame could cool something down.

 

13 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

no the fire would just be there to smoke it. not like a bond fire. but a Box would work too

 

and Madmole said something about a electrical stove (he may have changed his mind though who knows) but how would that work? would it take power when you turn it on? it may be easy to do i don't know! i barely know how to upgrade the XML files!

 

personally i would think a stove that used a fire/fuel would be easier to make and program but i don't know 

A lot of people here use old fridges as smokers. They work well.

[Aldranon]

2 hours ago, Gamida said:

  I was wondering years ago how a propane fridge did it's thing. I never understood how an open flame could cool something down.

 

Wow, talk about something counter intuitive!  I wonder about the person who thought it up.

The propane heats water and ammonia (I think they dilute the ammonia because some bad explosions can happen with enough pure ammonia). The evaporated pure ammonia liquid touches hydrogen gas and that reaction sucks heat from the area, then passes through a radiator and the cycle continues. 

[Dosu Kinuta]

16 hours ago, Xtrakicking said:

Well, I certainly can't argue with that. 

 

 

The Forest serves as an example of a balanced hunger and thirst system, though. Something 7dtd doesn't really have.

I guess the fact that we so passionately debate over these things proves that we care about the game.

Modify the xml files, increase spawn rate, lower the exp rate, put the zombie speed on nightmare all the time, have horde night everyday, play on the hardest difficulty, there you go, now you can survive rather than thrive. You're welcome. 

[Dethar]

1 hour ago, Dosu Kinuta said:

Modify the xml files, increase spawn rate, lower the exp rate, put the zombie speed on nightmare all the time, have horde night everyday, play on the hardest difficulty, there you go, now you can survive rather than thrive. You're welcome. 

I don't agree with alot of xtrakicking requests, but how does your suggestion balance hunger and thirst? 

[Khulkhuum]

Finally caught up with those new pages i found this morning... Was expecting 1-2 new post pages, but having 10 is too much... That's some discussion and one cannot simply reply to a post mid 4th page, because there are another 4 (at least) and the discussion could be over... Like seriously...

 

Anyway, my 2$. We don't know how A19 plays yet with the new systems. We don't know if anything we were talking about isn't being considered in the future (for example, MM mentioned something like animal spawning multiplier option or something the sort... forgot ALREADY after these last pages). We don't know whether TFP will change their minds on some subject, cause noone knows the future.

 

For differentiation between SP and MP on food usage, i'd see two options:
1. Food consumption stays low for the first few levels and gradually rises, meaning in late game you need more food than in early game for the same time period. Obviously, could cap at some point. This both means you are able to obtain food better (buying, hunting, faster movement between places, better skills to get more and better fighting to clear POIs faster), as well as is a mark of progression. Think of it however you want.

2. Allow some options to increase or decrease spawning food in POIs/animals in the wild/food at traders. Pick one or all. This should be self explanatory. You play MP with many people, pimp up the spawning. You play SP, tone it down.

[Dosu Kinuta]

2 hours ago, Dethar said:

I don't agree with alot of xtrakicking requests, but how does your suggestion balance hunger and thirst? 

I may or may not be wrong, but he is not really concerned about hunger and thirst balancing, he is implying that the game is "too easy" and he tries to find subtle methods to say it just to convince Madmole to make the game harder, in which case play with the HARDEST DIFFICULTIES possible and problem done. 

 

After you did that for a while and it's still easy (which I doubt it's going to happen since selecting all the hard difficulties at the same time it's really a nightmare and pain in the neck) then come and suggest new things to make the game harder and then wait. I mean, come on guys, bandits are not even out and you still argue about difficulty again. Just because a few players don't like the current hunger and thirst system...they can't talk for everyone and that doesn't mean there is something wrong with the system, it's a preference. 

[beHypE]

Hunger & food is a fun topic. We've restarted a game as a 4 man squad with 7 days hordes disabled (my friends wanted a less stressful, clock-ticking game), and honestly food has been a decent challenge in the first 10 hours. Mostly because it takes quite a while to get a farm going with enough crops, and that you need to reuse those crops for seeds before you can actually cook with them etc...

 

We lived off every vending machine / food at traders we could find and mostly bacon & eggs. Digging quests helped a bit aswell. Honestly, it was pretty fun, because ultimately without hordes there's not much of a challenge anyways. Now the situation is obviously very much under control for good, as you would expect after a while, especially since one is specialized in living off the land while another is specialized in master chef.

 

Regarding the challenge, is there anything planned in A19 that raises it ? I know I'm recycling my topics here, but honestly clearing any POI / city is a breeze once you use firearms. I understand the 7 days hordes act as a bullet sink, but regardless of ammo count, there's this "middle game" where everything becomes way too easy until you start spawning radiated zeds. Mostly because day 1 and day 25 zombies are roughly the same (with some more ferals / cops), but your firepower is absolutely incomparable.

[Xtrakicking]

38 minutes ago, Dosu Kinuta said:

I may or may not be wrong, but he is not really concerned about hunger and thirst balancing, he is implying that the game is "too easy" and he tries to find subtle methods to say it just to convince Madmole to make the game harder, in which case play with the HARDEST DIFFICULTIES possible and problem done. 

 

You are wrong. I do think hunger and thirst aren't balanced, and I've had that sentiment for a while, even before I reached 1k hours. It's not a matter of difficulty. Playing on insane won't fix the imbalance I think those mechanics have.

 

That being said, Roland asked us to continue the debate elsewhere, so we could do that if you want. Best to leave it here, otherwise. 

[CannedSmeef]

20 hours ago, madmole said:

No you guys are not players, you are back seat designers who want a grindy complicated sharp stick fest (well most of you anyway). Players are guys who just bought the game today, and maybe guys who play 20 or 100 hours. You guys are obsessed and have 5000 hours and because of that you want more and more challenge. If you could mind wipe you would just get in and enjoy the game more now than ever but because you are tainted with 18 alphas that cannot be undone. I think the game is way way way way way too easy. But I have 15000 hours so I cannot take my experience and pass that on to a new player. So you have to be smart and watch new players play without coaching them. If they get it you did a good job, if they need wikis and friends coaching them to do everything then you suck and need to change your designs or make it more user friendly.

Anyhow I think it will be better. Instead of punishing players for cooking we're rewarding them. The best foods require canned foods to make and give very nice bonuses, like +40 stamina for 5 minutes. This pretty much makes power attacking more and mining much more enjoyable so for me its a new drive to get the better recipes instead of "oh I won't puke". natural healing is nerfed so you might need to eat for health which puts a dent in your food supply.

At the end of the day its not done and you guys are bored so nit picking this is life right now I guess. I say wait til you play it as a whole with all the changes then judge it.

I'm a little late to this discussion, but I feel like the most elegant temporary solution for not making new players feel crushed by the need for food in the early game is to just make the first spawn have extra food cans, enough to last them a couple days with no risk of starving.  That way, if food was made more scarce, they wouldn't feel it for a good couple of hours, which should be more than enough time to have them get a basic feel for the game and how much of an issue finding food is.  When they notice they are finding little food from looting and they are running out of food cans, they will naturally prioritize finding more, instead of having food scarcity just hit them in the face right out the gate.

 

Emphasis on this possible solution being temporary, obviously in the future an actual food scarcity option would be the better solution.  But I feel like this would please veterans without making it impossible for newcomers.  And it's a really simple change too, just up the starting chili cans/water and make food loot tables less common.

 

Thoughts on this?

 

NOTE: If loot tables are more complicated to edit than I think, then making food/water drain faster could also work.

[Marinxar]

13 minutes ago, CannedSmeef said:

I'm a little late to this discussion, but I feel like the most elegant temporary solution for not making new players feel crushed by the need for food in the early game is to just make the first spawn have extra food cans, enough to last them a couple days with no risk of starving.  That way, if food was made more scarce, they wouldn't feel it for a good couple of hours, which should be more than enough time to have them get a basic feel for the game and how much of an issue finding food is.  When they notice they are finding little food from looting and they are running out of food cans, they will naturally prioritize finding more, instead of having food scarcity just hit them in the face right out the gate.

 

Emphasis on this possible solution being temporary, obviously in the future an actual food scarcity option would be the better solution.  But I feel like this would please veterans without making it impossible for newcomers.  And it's a really simple change too, just up the starting chili cans/water and make food loot tables less common.

 

Thoughts on this?

 

NOTE: If loot tables are more complicated to edit than I think, then making food/water drain faster could also work.

This topic ( Food scarsity/difficulty/spoiling/etc. ) has been moved to General discussions by Roland. No longer allowed here. 

[Operator_Death]

59 minutes ago, Xtrakicking said:

 

Thank you @Xtrakicking I must have missed this. I am so excited I had to speed read most of the pages in the forum. 

[Roland]

I am all for stricter and tougher hunger and thirst survival mechanics. The game is pretty soft as it stands on food. Not only that but the death penalty is such a non issue that any problems with hunger, thirst,---- or any negative debuff can be solved by dying.

[Boidster]

17 hours ago, Roland said:

I am all for stricter and tougher hunger and thirst survival mechanics. The game is pretty soft as it stands on food. Not only that but the death penalty is such a non issue that any problems with hunger, thirst,---- or any negative debuff can be solved by dying.

There was that one guy a few weeks back who said he would just eat glass if any food made him puke. Because "eat another stew" was too much work.

[Xtrakicking]

On 5/18/2020 at 2:20 AM, Roland said:

I am all for stricter and tougher hunger and thirst survival mechanics. The game is pretty soft as it stands on food. Not only that but the death penalty is such a non issue that any problems with hunger, thirst,---- or any negative debuff can be solved by dying.

I remember a time when having your food/water bars at 0% wouldn't kill you. No debuffs, no health loss, literally nothing. Few people noticed, because there was never any problems with food and water.

[Hollowprime]

I'm just waiting for A19 to be released. Then I'll get a full picture of what the devs really care about. Is it the hardcore basebuilding survival aspect of the game? Or is it merely a looting shooting simulation where ammo and food is plentiful?

 

So far A18 has been clinging towards the second by removing crafting spring,mechanical components as well as oil (oil recipe was necessary in all but the desert biome) but I fear A19 will completely break the game.

[Liesel Weppen]

On 5/16/2020 at 4:38 PM, beHypE said:

Hunger & food is a fun topic. We've restarted a game as a 4 man squad with 7 days hordes disabled (my friends wanted a less stressful, clock-ticking game), and honestly food has been a decent challenge in the first 10 hours. Mostly because it takes quite a while to get a farm going with enough crops, and that you need to reuse those crops for seeds before you can actually cook with them etc...

I usually play in groups of 2-4 people. And you are basically right, the first few days food is a (little) issue.

But on the other hand, one of these players uses one of his first skill points to learn master chef 1 and so can cook bacon & eggs from day 1. The most unreliable factor then is finding a cooking pot soon. 

Until then players should roam around and loot bird nests for the eggs. Usually you find some animals for the meat too. Of course they should spread out, if all 4 players are just looting the same POI together, chances are low to find eggs and meat. Maybe 2 looting a POI hoping to find a cooking pot, 2 other explore the map around your starting position (and also collect wood and stone) on day 1 and 2.

 

On early A18 we started a game with 8 players, 3 of them experienced players and 5 absolute beginners. There it was really a struggle, because basically the 3 experienced people had to organize enough food for 8 players. Even though we told the 5 beginners to loot every bird nest they see... but however i guess they overlooked most of them. However we managed to do it. What helped a little was, if you die, you respawn with 100 food. On the one hand that prevents death-loops because you are out of food, on the other hand i even had players that prefer "strategic dying" when they ran out of food...

 

We usually also buy vegetables and seeds from the trader early to start a garden. However to run a garden efficiently that requires living of the land 3, for harvesting 2 vegetables per plant and being able to craft the seeds of the vegetables. Once this is setup and expanded enough, food is no issue anymore, as you can always craft vegetable stew. Especially if you play in a group it makes the game much easier if one of them goes for master chef (1) and living of the land (3, later 4).

[RestInPieces]

On 5/15/2020 at 10:02 PM, madmole said:

I don't think you guys understand, that hunger is a tier 1 problem. Survival in the desert will be a tier 2 problem. Survival in the snow will be a tier 3 problem. Survival in the wasteland will be a tier 4 problem. We've properly made food a teir 1 problem that can evolve into  assisting in the higher tiers. A player should not be given a tier 4 problem on day 1. To be clear weather survival is still a complete joke but will get harder in A20.

I don't think anyone is asking you to throw high tier problems, as you call them, to the players right off the bat.

 

Instead of viewing them as flat tier X problems that the player will solve and be done with them in the first place, you could take a page out of your own book and make them more progressive, much like the FPS/RPG part of the game is. What this means is that the problems players face, don't abruptly slap them in the face and become irrelevant/forgettable shortly after, like a moody ex-bf/gf, but that they dynamically "change tiers" according to players' choices and progression and interacting with other systems to progressively give players more tools to increase their own QOL.

 

Problems that don't do that, are neither particularly engaging and their solution doesn't make for a rewarding experience, nor do they offer the smooth kind of learning curve you are looking for.

 

Without even reading the dev thread, I'd wager that those super-no-life fans, or whatever you'd like to call them, don't starve for super difficult inaccessible challenges or whatever, but for challenges with some decent longevity, that are not linear or abruptly solvable like needs are. 

 

On 5/16/2020 at 12:56 AM, Felice said:

At one studio I worked for, they told us, repeatedly, that "You are not the player!" i.e. that we didn't play games the way typical gamers do, we don't need tutorials the way neophytes do, we don't stare dumbfounded at confusing UIs...

The same applies to devout fans of your game. They aren't typical players. They minmax, they adapt quickly to changes, they find every nook and cranny of the knowledgebase...

It goes without saying that accessibility should be tailored for a complete beginner, but the ability to adapt is not exclusive to devout fans. All humans have it and some of you seem to be forgetting that, thinking the player-base is something as simplistic as two groups of "casual players" and a bunch of vocal no-lifers. 

 

A neophyte won't view the game in the same light at the very start, compared to how they will view it after just a couple of short playthroughs.  This is when the largest change of perspective will take place, and other than the initial impression stage where most players will either abandon or engage with the game , this is where your real player retention capability will become apparent. 

[grieferbastard]

If the survival facet of the game was based on being in an environment where food won't grow and largely isn't available it makes sense to have food security be a major challenge. Take The Long Dark as an example; food security is a daily struggle.

 

That doesn't make sense here. There's still food in cans and the environments are pretty friendly to food production. I do need to pay some attention to staying fed but it's one brick in a wall of 'background needs'. That's part of what builds the whole survival house.

 

It's also about time management. If I have to spend more time securing food needs I have less time to explore, clear POIs and do actual zombie survival stuff.

 

Conan Exiles, Empyrion, even ARK all have a similar approach to food security and in general it works. I don't see any benefit to this game in altering where I need to spend my time in favor of food production/management.

[kexes]

Food spoilage i think can be solved through modding. But if not, i think the best solution is that the devs should add a new option to the "Survival options" section called "Food spoilage" ON / OFF switch. I think they can balance it out good, but thats not their main focus yet. Personally i look forward way more for the bandit fights than food spoilage, that they introduced idk how many alpha versions ago, and still not implemented. I hope they will add them to the game at a point finally, for many good random gunfights and possible bandit raids on your base. They can will open up a whole new experience.

[Viktoriusiii]

On 5/15/2020 at 11:45 PM, Felice said:

Vocal minorities are the enemy of fun gameplay for the majority in every ongoing game project I've ever seen. Every single one.

I know I'm late... but this grinds my gears.
Same as MM said that more experienced players have different views to new players.

Back when I started with minecraft, I learned through tutorials. It was so early there was no complexity, but because nothing was explained, you had to at least somewhat look it up.
You know what I have 99% of my hours in? Tekkit. Because it gives the game a depth without changing the core principle.
This is what this forum has been saying since I first joined it. We want lategame.
But unneeded complexity.
A well done system introduces complexity as it goes.
A game I recently played again is "My time at portia" a "harvest moon" type of game.
And there are 100 different ways to make money, all of them need like 5 steps to it.
So what do they do? They introduce them in steady streams. On day 2 you can only collect debris. On day 3 you get allowance to craft tools. On day 7 you get ressources to build a garden. On day 7 you are allowed in the mine...
And so on. This continues nearly a year into the game. With more complex things coming basicially every day.
If I were thrown in this world with all the options on day 1 I would have gone mad.

And this is something that LBD did on its own. You increased as you went on to do them. So IC knowledge increased with your ooc knowledge of the best lootingspots, best ways to fight zombies and so on. Until you finally were able to attack a small village. Once you were able to take care of dogs and bees, you'd go in a city for that sweet loot.

It was a natural progression.
Now its -> Day 1 find trader and a nearby city, loot all day until horde, either cheese it by hiding on a huge city poi or have so much ammo on day 7 that you just rambo through this.

It is a looter shooter more to the likes of doom. A good one, with some funny building and crafting elements... but lets revise what lost its complexity:

Leveling has become the nr 1 thing to do. Back in the good old days it was said "OMG they level up on cacti!" and instead of removing that possibility they replaced it with a generic XP system, where you learn recipes from leveling up and you level up however you like. Which sounds fine, until you see that it completely ruins progression.
You do not need to explore anymore to get better loot. You do not need to fight any zombie to learn to hit/shoot better. You just do whatever you can grind the best with. How is that different from Cactileveling?
Take whatever excuse and put it on the cacti thing and see how well it fits.

EVERYTHING revolves around leveling. Back in the day, everything revolved around the things you did. Not only was it more immersive, it was a natural guideline to progression.


To get back at my original point after this rant:
Complexity doesnt mean overwhelming the player. It means giving a learning curve.
We get difficulty based on regions now. Which is great. It's a good example. Where you start out easy with base ressources like food dirt and stone and lots of food, but low loot, until you go deeper and you encounter more difficulties surviving because it was struck harder, but it also has better loot, meat and plants is replaced by better conserved foods until you finially make it to the irradiated area, where all the strongest enemies are, but also the loot is immense!
You can set this curve as steep as you like, because the player chooses his current capability. It doesnt mean "players will be overwhelmed". It is a natural difficulty curve and this is what players in this forum want. A longer curve that gets more difficult in the endstages. Nothing to do with the early game.
Certainly some things would do well to be more challenging early on, but that doesnt mean new players would suffer.

Ugh im ranting again. They have their vision... I disagree... strongly. But they did make a lot of good... yes awesome changes for A18... so who knows... maybe they need to walk through @%$*#! to get to the sunny side of the street... who knows.
 

[Roland]

2 hours ago, Viktoriusiii said:

I know I'm late... but this grinds my gears.
Same as MM said that more experienced players have different views to new players.

Sorry if it grinds your gears but it is absolutely true that experienced players have a different view than new players and developing the game with only experienced players in mind is a bad idea. Creating DLCs after launch with experienced players in mind in order to extend the game and add new more complex content is a good idea. Developing the base game bad idea.

 

2 hours ago, Viktoriusiii said:

Back when I started with minecraft, I learned through tutorials. It was so early there was no complexity, but because nothing was explained, you had to at least somewhat look it up.
You know what I have 99% of my hours in? Tekkit. Because it gives the game a depth without changing the core principle.
This is what this forum has been saying since I first joined it. We want lategame.
But unneeded complexity.

But you didn't start with Tekkit. You graduated to it after playing the base game for x number of hours. The developers are working on the base game. Late game complexity for experienced players are for after launch DLCs for the purpose of extending the life of the game. The devs will do some of this (for 2 years after gold they have said) and modders will also contribute to this. The fact that what you care about most is lategame is proof that TFP must not let you distract them from what they are doing right now which is: Getting the base game polished and ready for release. They have stated a number of times that they are concerned with getting the first 30 hours of gameplay solid for release. Then they can add and extend with more complexity.

 

2 hours ago, Viktoriusiii said:

A game I recently played again is "My time at portia" a "harvest moon" type of game.
And there are 100 different ways to make money, all of them need like 5 steps to it.
So what do they do? They introduce them in steady streams. On day 2 you can only collect debris. On day 3 you get allowance to craft tools. On day 7 you get ressources to build a garden. On day 7 you are allowed in the mine...
And so on. This continues nearly a year into the game. With more complex things coming basicially every day.
If I were thrown in this world with all the options on day 1 I would have gone mad.

Meh...7 Days is the same. You don't start with all five workstations and all the perks and crafting recipes for all the weapons. You gain those a little at a time as you play. At first all you have to worry about is crafting and using a fireplace. That's it. The forge comes next and so on. Hooking up electrical systems and traps and security cameras and battery banks or solar panels comes much later. None of that complexity is thrown at the player on day 1 but slowly over time as they progress.

 

2 hours ago, Viktoriusiii said:

And this is something that LBD did on its own....

Oi Vey....

Any progression system does that. The one we have now accomplishes it very well. Yes, you don't prefer the perk purchasing system compared to the LBD system and that's fine but to say LBD moves a player from being basic to complex all on its own is like advertising that Apples are gluten free....

 

Buying perks one by one ALSO moves a character from basic to complex on its own.

 

2 hours ago, Viktoriusiii said:

To get back at my original point after this rant:
Complexity doesnt mean overwhelming the player. It means giving a learning curve.
We get difficulty based on regions now. Which is great. It's a good example. Where you start out easy with base ressources like food dirt and stone and lots of food, but low loot, until you go deeper and you encounter more difficulties surviving because it was struck harder, but it also has better loot, meat and plants is replaced by better conserved foods until you finially make it to the irradiated area, where all the strongest enemies are, but also the loot is immense!
You can set this curve as steep as you like, because the player chooses his current capability. It doesnt mean "players will be overwhelmed". It is a natural difficulty curve and this is what players in this forum want. A longer curve that gets more difficult in the endstages. Nothing to do with the early game.
Certainly some things would do well to be more challenging early on, but that doesnt mean new players would suffer.

Ugh im ranting again. They have their vision... I disagree... strongly. But they did make a lot of good... yes awesome changes for A18... so who knows... maybe they need to walk through @%$*#! to get to the sunny side of the street... who knows.

 

See? You are not late to this conversation after all, you are just much too early. The developers are focused on getting their base game finished and you are longing for the DLCs that will come post launch. As far as polish and refinement go I think this game is just barely approaching "My Time in Portia" when it was first released to early access. Obviously a ton of work went into Portia behind closed doors. They didn't share the early development of that game like TFP has been sharing the early development of this game. And then there's your point about Tekkit for Minecraft.  That added complexity you are craving comes from a mod and not the base game which is simpler. This is the correct model. The developers create a platform that is approachable and simple and modders build off of that to offer complexity and new play options.

 

Btw...I looked up Tekkit and.... $149/month? What the hell is that about?  

 

[Deadalready]

I disagree with the notion that struggling for food/water should be a prevailent thing through out the whole game.

1. It's currently not really that fun
2. Repeating a not fun gameplay loop is x2 not fun
3. I'd rather spend my time doing actually stuff like driving vehicles, building amazing bases, completing quests
4. This is negative reinforcement, no benefits for having fullness over 100% but the instant either our food or water drops below 100% we immediately suffer consequences.
5. Join an established multiplayer server and often you are boned, cupboards all looted, pots all gone, more players means a smaller chance of animals actually spawning near you.

I'm greatly disappointed the Pimps just straight up dumped the idea they started with, because it means they'll have to create a new idea and we as players need to go through the entire teething stage of disappointment with a new system, also there's all that time wasted from a devopement point of view. It is true, randomly losing all your food because of the wonky food poisoning numbers sucked, especially when the Pimps in their wisdom thought it was fine that even the high tier foods have a high amount of food poisoning, in a way it was a great "F U" to those who had to jump through all those hoops to get their cooking/farming up to STILL randomly suffer food poisoning.

 

It's not a great system but I feel like had they tweaked the numbers it would've worked. Thoughts on how things could've been better.

• High tier foods (especially those with double cooking) should have a lower food poisoning amount = investment should be rewarded
• It was insulting that base foods recovered no stamina/food finding, even things like cornbread/baked potatoes/charred meat were negligable to the point it just wasn't worth using them. Blueberries give something like 1 hp/stamina!?! Corn Bread was worth 5 food stamina?
• Instead of instantly dropping our food, it should probably be a timed decay allowing players to attempt to cure the problem with meds
• Food/hunger should be a slider in server settings allowing for masocists to set how much of a problem hunger is. There people who want to spend the whole game farming food can get their fun and those who don't care for it are happy too.
• For the love of god, put food and water back on the HUD again.