Locusta Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 That's what I'm saying, there're zounds much more crafting than ever before lol. Crafting aint dead just because a couple things got changed. There could very well be more crafting RECIPES now then ever. The difference being the crafting is more shallow than ever, and that’s the issue. Not sure why this needs explanation repeatedly. The depth (and logic) of crafting is what is being slowly lobotomized. Loc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo'guts Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 At first I was a little sad to see the iron ore go but I am already used to the new change and havent really felt a negative impact on the way I play the game, still finding loads of the stuff and smelting all the same. Personally I am not bothered by it but I will miss the iron ore icon because i just liked seeing it and its nice little value of 5 iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2n1 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 .... Personally I am not bothered by it but I will miss the iron ore icon because i just liked seeing it and its nice little value of 5 iron. These little feelings make up the impressions of the game. Everything is built on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 It's hilarious when y'all impute motives to changes. I heard they got rid of the raw iron because the icon looked like Joel's old pet rock, and he didn't want other people to have it. Pfft. It's because, spelt backwards it makes "Nori War", and since the Nori's are getting set to invade the earth some time fairly soon, it was a secret tell to those of us in know to prepare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Why do you think it is so desirable? Maybe for min maxers. What cant we craft without a bellows? Maybe Im missing something. I would say it went from "must have" to "oh thats cool" item. Definitely not must have. I have yet to play a game where i needed a bellows in 18. Before it was simply a part of the forge recipe that got a separate name, you could do nothing else with it. If you added the resource cost of the bellows to the forge recipe there would have been absolutely no change in gameplay. Just one click removed and a flavor item less. (Flavor items are nice for immersion though, but items that also add gameplay and decision are always better than a flavor item). Now it has influence on the game. No you don't need it. It is optional as are AK's, traders, grenades, a crafting base, mods, books, ,,,, -------- PS: I think iron ore had to be removed because "ore" is spelled similar to "or" and could be confusing to casual players. (forum riot in 3..2...1... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedo Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Before it was simply a part of the forge recipe that got a separate name, you could do nothing else with it. If you added the resource cost of the bellows to the forge recipe there would have been absolutely no change in gameplay. Just one click removed and a flavor item less. For sure. It isn't as though I would craft the bellows until I could immediately make the forge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Right now it makes your smelting 50% more effective... Except....there is no more smelting It sounds a bit less cool to say "It makes your melting 50% more effective", but hey, anything to get us to 7d2d's endgame goal boss mission finale scoreboard that much quicker is okay in my book. Last game, I scored over 15,000...Beat that! -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Except....there is no more smelting It sounds a bit less cool to say "It makes your melting 50% more effective", but hey, anything to get us to 7d2d's endgame goal boss mission finale scoreboard that much quicker is okay in my book. Last game, I scored over 15,000...Beat that! -Morloc So where do you get your forged iron, forged steel and dart thrower ammo from if you don't smelt your iron anymore? The only two mass produced things you can produce outside the forge are barbed wire traps and junk turret ammo (and only the INT player needs lots of the latter) My idea would be to move the current junk turret ammo recipe to the forge and make the current backpack-recipe for junk turret ammo 2->1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothyc Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I think one aspect that is easy to forget is how a game like this has some responsibility in explaining why you get a certain resource. For sure, that is what the thought was from the beginning? You didn't loot brass. You looted a doorknob - i.e. the game explains to the player that in a post apocalyptic world, door knobs would be a good source of brass. It explains that nice drinkable water comes from something that used to be more disgusting - this explaining the nice water's existance in the world. For iron, the ore was the explanation as to why you would find iron in the wild. It put things in context, in a way that I'd say feels pretty unique for survival games. Lose these aspects, and you start losing the grounding in "realism". And yes, before you say "but zombies!", survival games are based on a certain degree of reality, just with a twist. Zombies, war, aliens, whatever, to spice it up. It doesn't mean the foundation of realism shouldn't be there to anchor it all into something easier for the player to immerse themselves in. Sorry, just some rambling thoughts I needed to get out. Probably doesn't make sense to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungryZombie Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 It's hilarious when y'all impute motives to changes. I heard they got rid of the raw iron because the icon looked like Joel's old pet rock, and he didn't want other people to have it. Winner! +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reth Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I think one aspect that is easy to forget is how a game like this has some responsibility in explaining why you get a certain resource. For sure, that is what the thought was from the beginning? You didn't loot brass. You looted a doorknob - i.e. the game explains to the player that in a post apocalyptic world, door knobs would be a good source of brass. It explains that nice drinkable water comes from something that used to be more disgusting - this explaining the nice water's existance in the world. For iron, the ore was the explanation as to why you would find iron in the wild. It put things in context, in a way that I'd say feels pretty unique for survival games. Lose these aspects, and you start losing the grounding in "realism". And yes, before you say "but zombies!", survival games are based on a certain degree of reality, just with a twist. Zombies, war, aliens, whatever, to spice it up. It doesn't mean the foundation of realism shouldn't be there to anchor it all into something easier for the player to immerse themselves in. Sorry, just some rambling thoughts I needed to get out. Probably doesn't make sense to anyone. Makes perfect sense to me. It makes sense to get dirty water out of a body of water, boil it and get clean water. It makes sense to get logs out of felled trees, cut them into planks using either a saw - very slow - or a table saw of some kind - much faster, but potentially requiring electricity. It makes sense to grab doorknobs and trophies out of old buildings and then smelt them in a forge. It also makes sense to mine ore and then smelt it before it can be used. Scraping things into generic bronze and iron never really felt right to me. Not in this game, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 So where do you get your forged iron, forged steel and dart thrower ammo from if you don't smelt your iron anymore? There's no need. That was all done before the apocalypse. You're merely taking the bits n' pieces of iron and melting it down into nice ingots because ingots are sort of the "Sonic Screwdriver" of iron fabrication. -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boidster Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 There isn't really any jimmie rustling going on over the minor tweak of changing iron ore to scrap iron. The jimmie rustling is over the ongoing de-emphasizing of crafting over a long time. Those with unrustled jimmies are obviously those who don't particularly care about crafting being a big emphasis. The game is still fun. I will meet you halfway and concede that rustled jimmies on display in this thread may have many related sources. FWIW I would be perfectly fine with your preferred mechanic for ore -> refined -> craft. For all mineable ores (not rock, clay, or sand). Nitrate, shale, coal...all of it could have a refining step. I would remain completely gruntled in that case. I do hope there is a Best Dramatic Actor award at the conclusion of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostlight Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 It's mind-blowing that a change this small generated a thread this big when there are much more serious problems with the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locusta Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 It's mind-blowing that a change this small generated a thread this big when there are much more serious problems with the game. The straw that broke the camels back quote is relevant here. Loc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 There's no need. That was all done before the apocalypse. You're merely taking the bits n' pieces of iron and melting it down into nice ingots because ingots are sort of the "Sonic Screwdriver" of iron fabrication. -Morloc I don't really see the connection between my question and your answer. You said smelting isn't necessary anymore (in the game) and when I ask how you do that without smelting you say you melt them down to nice ingots. Is smelting and melting now different concepts (in the game) ? It's mind-blowing that a change this small generated a thread this big when there are much more serious problems with the game. You mean the serious problem of ore-less surface boulders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Is smelting and melting now different concepts (in the game) ? Yes. Smelting is the process of extracting metals from metal ore, but metal ore has been removed from the game. Taking scrap metal, metal pieces, metal items and processing in the forge would be nothing more than melting the items into some repository, which is then used to create ingots which can magically be made into stuff. We can suspend disbelief and presume we're really casting the parts or somehow forging them from the metal. There's some technical issues there, but yes, it's a game. The term "smelting" is no longer relevant. Melting is what the kids are sayin' today. -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothyc Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 It's mind-blowing that a change this small generated a thread this big when there are much more serious problems with the game. Well, we had to have an Iron Gate, didn't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Well, we had to have an Iron Gate, didn't we? There are two types of people here, those with an iron in the fire and those trolling them. I suppose there's also Roland who has his iron at a plausibly deniable distance from the fire. Remember our battle-cry....."He who smelt it, dealt it!" -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 There are two types of people here, those with an iron in the fire and those trolling them. I suppose there's also Roland who has his iron at a plausibly deniable distance from the fire. Remember our battle-cry....."He who smelt it, dealt it!" -Morloc I have no plausible deniability. I'm definitely disappointed that they decided to make iron like the rest of the ores instead of making the rest of the ores like iron. But I'm also not competing for Boidster's award at the end of the thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seagas Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I want to see the argument about the need for keeping the following items verses the elimination of Iron ore. Candle sticks, Brass door knobs, brass & lead trophies, lead weights. The many different versions of canned foods. Now that we talked about simplicity, why now adding more complexity. Steel axe parts for only making steel axes, why not just steel tool parts. Why all the different gun parts, couldn't they can have just common gun parts. While simplify one process, that really isn't different form the other, like brass and lead. Then add more complexity to guns and tools and then say eliminating iron ore speeds up the game???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychodabble Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Fun Pimps need a proper Community Manager. Deciding stuff behind closed doors and pushing changes with no warning or explanation is a recipe for totally unnecessary drama and Steam review diatribes. A little transparency goes a LONG way with this kind of stuff. Let people know what you're thinking and WHY you're making a particular change and you cut down on dissent and hurt feelings preemptively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I have no plausible deniability. Sorry...I wasn't suggesting your opinions were less than genuine, just that you need to retain a certain clinical distance as a moderator. Now that we talked about simplicity, why now adding more complexity. Steel axe parts for only making steel axes, why not just steel tool parts. He who smelt it, dealt it! -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrook1028 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Well here's things that have been added to crafting. Maybe I'm wrong about them but i think they are new to A17 or A18. Food: Hobo Stew Sham Chowder Fish Taco Chili Dog Sham Purified Water Mods: All the mods that go into guns. A couple dozen I think. Clothing: Bandanas, Jackets, Tank Tops, Etc. I don't think you could craft those before. Explosives: Grenades Sticky Grendades Timed Charges Armor: Steel Armor Set Ammo: AP Rounds Shotgun Breech Rounds Buffs: All the Grandpa Elixers Fort Bites Weapons: Spears Knuckles Sledgehammer Baseball Bats Vechicles Motorcycle 4x4 Gryocopter Building Blocks Wood Bars Some of those I'm not sure when they came in but some I know are not new. Bandanas/steel armor/chili dogs/sledgehammer. Has anyone ever crafted clothing other than a bandana D1 for a bit more protection or a plant fiber hat for a quick desert trip? Clothes in my experienc are more something I scrap for cloth as I'm looting than anything I've ever made. Elixers? Meh - I don't bother with magic potions either. But with that all said, how many things have been removed? Idk, not gonna reinstall multiple old Alpha's and compare. - - - Updated - - - To each his own i guess. When you run 3 forges craft time means very little, at least to me. ^^This. Forge time is meaningless. If you're sitting there waiting on it you're doing something wrong lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Some of those I'm not sure when they came in but some I know are not new. Bandanas/steel armor/chili dogs/sledgehammer. Has anyone ever crafted clothing other than a bandana D1 for a bit more protection or a plant fiber hat for a quick desert trip? Clothes in my experienc are more something I scrap for cloth as I'm looting than anything I've ever made. Elixers? Meh - I don't bother with magic potions either. But with that all said, how many things have been removed? Idk, not gonna reinstall multiple old Alpha's and compare. - - - Updated - - - ^^This. Forge time is meaningless. If you're sitting there waiting on it you're doing something wrong lol. Clothes could never be made before. In A18 there is a book series that allows you to craft clothing for the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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