JCrook1028 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Bandana could I'm almost positive. The others I didn't say were possible before, just that I don't make them now. Wondering how many people do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicUs5000 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Bandana could I'm almost positive. The others I didn't say were possible before, just that I don't make them now. Wondering how many people do. Bandana for certain. Been crafting them along with the clothing quest since A16. I haven't felt the need or desire to craft actual clothing in A18 as of yet. If surviving the elements doesn't get any love, it probably won't get used by most players. The game is heavy on looting and generous in providing clothing, which doesn't help in terms of feature usefulness either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam_Neill Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 So much hate for an intermediate material change. A material you could only scrap ? While i concur that streamlining games is not really always a good idea, this change is pretty minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 So much hate for an intermediate material change. A material you could only scrap ? While i concur that streamlining games is not really always a good idea, this change is pretty minimal. I think if you read the thread you'll see that the minimal change is simply the catalyst for general disappointment over the fact that crafting is getting the streamlining and simplification treatment. It does make sense for them to change iron ore to be like the rest. Some of us just wish all the rest would've been more like how iron ore was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicUs5000 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I'm not much of a fan of conspiracy theories, but it's hard not to see a pattern emerge, especially when MM has in the past made statements about how the terrain and the voxels get in the way of speedy development and his design ideas. Step 1: Remove caves. Step 2: Add digging zombies back in so that less people build underground. Step 3: Simplify mining so that it is uninteresting and people spend less time doing it. Step 4: Remove destructible terrain, nobody needs it now anyway. Increase surface nodes. Step 5: Remove voxels, because Fallout. It's also hard not to see a pattern when the exact same thing has happened and is happening to random world generation. If change is gradual enough, the backlash is much less. Less people notice or become comfortable with the new product. Just sayin... If I could do it all over again I'd have thrown out the diggable terrain. Alpha 1 could have had static Unity terrain, a simple water plane, ran 30% better, used way less ram, console wouldn't have been so beat down, allowed faster vehicles, looked as good as 18's terrain does now, (Minus the Justin talent) and we wouldn't have wasted energy on mining, cave systems, multiple versions of trees, etc. Mining could have been mining POIs with respawning nuggets like rust/skyrim/subnautica with a nice model. We'd anger 10% and gain 200% new players that don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about deformable terrain and buggy water. At some point we might release a static terrain option for 7 days just to see the performance gains. IMO most people would run it for the performance gains and better pvp, none of this wimpy underground base business, fight like a man like in TWD. You don't see those guys living in caves/mines. What may have made us great has also slowed us down and kept us indy looking/performing. I think mining is ok but its not part of the secret sauce, we'd still have mining it just wouldn't be ugly 3d mining. At this point we'd kind of solved it mostly but it could have saved us a lot of time and headaches, allowing us to focus on cool stuff like we are able to now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I think I'd be one of the 10%. Well, not angry anyway, but certainly enjoying the game less. I'm not overly concerned with graphics, and my rig is powerful enough to run A18 pretty much on any settings, but if 7Days hadn't been voxel, then I don't think I would have enjoyed it anywhere near as much - certainly Ark's map system didn't float my boat anywhere near as much as 7Days has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicUs5000 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I can see the headaches with performance. I don't think that's what keeps the game looking indy. What I really think shouts indy I pointed out here: ...snipped to stay on the topic of simplicity... Other things that shout indy and that have nothing to do with voxels and destructible worlds: - scrapping iron ore into iron with your bare hands (oops, that's gone now... the plus side of it) - making wet concrete without a drop of water - drinking from jars with the lids on - automated workstations (no NPCs doing the work) ... very classic indy. Does any indy game not do this? - upgrading everything with a nailgun - dead bodies pop out of existence - giant yellow loot bags nearly as big as the zombies - most food looks like a lump of lard in your hand - very basic, one handed, no footed combat I could go on for a long, long time. Voxels had no part in this. I don't want to pick on TFP or this game. It remains my favorite game. I just hate reading these made up things to help push some new agenda that is only going to fade away like many others have in the past. Really, it is a big mess... and yet somehow, the game always has managed to hang on a thread. That thread is voxels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guardianangelmp Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 If I could do it all over again I'd have thrown out the diggable terrain. Alpha 1 could have had static Unity terrain, a simple water plane, ran 30% better, used way less ram, console wouldn't have been so beat down, allowed faster vehicles, looked as good as 18's terrain does now, (Minus the Justin talent) and we wouldn't have wasted energy on mining, cave systems, multiple versions of trees, etc. Mining could have been mining POIs with respawning nuggets like rust/skyrim/subnautica with a nice model. We'd anger 10% and gain 200% new players that don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about deformable terrain and buggy water. At some point we might release a static terrain option for 7 days just to see the performance gains. IMO most people would run it for the performance gains and better pvp, none of this wimpy underground base business, fight like a man like in TWD. You don't see those guys living in caves/mines. What may have made us great has also slowed us down and kept us indy looking/performing. I think mining is ok but its not part of the secret sauce, we'd still have mining it just wouldn't be ugly 3d mining. At this point we'd kind of solved it mostly but it could have saved us a lot of time and headaches, allowing us to focus on cool stuff like we are able to now. This.....this just pisses me off. This says, to me, that the game I bought is the game he doesn't care about anymore. The reason I enjoyed 7dtd is because of all of the things that MM said he would have rather not had in the game because it would have been easier and made them more money faster (ie having the game further along earlier and have more players with the game [buying the game]). If I could get a refund now I would, but I can't. I know some will say I'm just whining or being dramatic.....but, I'm just disappointed. Disappointed in this game, disappointed in the gaming industry in general, and just disappointed in in people. The only thing that matters is money. Now tear me apart for saying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guardianangelmp Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I can see the headaches with performance. I don't think that's what keeps the game looking indy. What I really think shouts indy I pointed out here: Other things that shout indy and that have nothing to do with voxels and destructible worlds: - scrapping iron ore into iron with your bare hands (oops, that's gone now... the plus side of it) - making wet concrete without a drop of water - drinking from jars with the lids on - automated workstations (no NPCs doing the work) ... very classic indy. Does any indy game not do this? - upgrading everything with a nailgun - dead bodies pop out of existence - giant yellow loot bags nearly as big as the zombies - most food looks like a lump of lard in your hand - very basic, one handed, no footed combat I could go on for a long, long time. Voxels had no part in this. I don't want to pick on TFP or this game. It remains my favorite game. I just hate reading these made up things to help push some new agenda that is only going to fade away like many others have in the past. Really, it is a big mess... and yet somehow, the game always has managed to hang on a thread. That thread is voxels. This guy has it. The only thing that sets 7dtd apart from all of the other survival games are the voxels. If voxels weren't in the game to begin with then 7dtd would be where h1z1 is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I can see the headaches with performance. I don't think that's what keeps the game looking indy. What I really think shouts indy I pointed out here: Other things that shout indy and that have nothing to do with voxels and destructible worlds: - scrapping iron ore into iron with your bare hands (oops, that's gone now... the plus side of it) - making wet concrete without a drop of water - drinking from jars with the lids on - automated workstations (no NPCs doing the work) ... very classic indy. Does any indy game not do this? - upgrading everything with a nailgun - dead bodies pop out of existence - giant yellow loot bags nearly as big as the zombies - most food looks like a lump of lard in your hand - very basic, one handed, no footed combat I could go on for a long, long time. Voxels had no part in this. I don't want to pick on TFP or this game. It remains my favorite game. I just hate reading these made up things to help push some new agenda that is only going to fade away like many others have in the past. Really, it is a big mess... and yet somehow, the game always has managed to hang on a thread. That thread is voxels. The real ironic part is that while MM and company strive to simplify everything and dumb things down, new survival games are popping up with an eye towards more complex crafting etc. 7 Days was the king in this field but i suspect that in a few years time other games will surpass them in the complexity department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostlight Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 You mean the serious problem of ore-less surface boulders? You sir, are a cad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollowprime Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 This.....this just pisses me off. This says, to me, that the game I bought is the game he doesn't care about anymore. The reason I enjoyed 7dtd is because of all of the things that MM said he would have rather not had in the game because it would have been easier and made them more money faster (ie having the game further along earlier and have more players with the game [buying the game]). If I could get a refund now I would, but I can't. I know some will say I'm just whining or being dramatic.....but, I'm just disappointed. Disappointed in this game, disappointed in the gaming industry in general, and just disappointed in in people. The only thing that matters is money. Now tear me apart for saying it. This actually makes me both angry and terrified. Angry because the game sold millions of copies as it was advertised as a "minecraft for adults with zombies". A16 was the best version because of its simplicity and because of building huge bases which was exactly why the game sold so well . A17 split the community in half because they changed most things that made this a simple base building game by nerfing steel tools, augers and making the game horrifically slow with level gating. A18 followed a similar path by loot gating almost everything because the developers clearly want to build anything but huge bunkers and underground bases and also hate mining. Terrified because I now realize what the devs have been trying to do all along : remove the base building element of the game in progressive steps. They systematically remove difficulty and depth from crafting and base building so they can sell this game as a fortnite clone despite the fact it sold so well and we payed for it. The devs saying "but you've played hundreds of hours" doesn't take into consideration that we are beta testing every version. That even if we do like A16 it comes with game breaking bugs like disappearing traders and ground tossing minibikes . That A17 came with horrible AI pathfinding and made the game unenjoyable . They cannot sugar coat enough that we payed and beta tested an ultra laggy voxel game which they slowly turn it into a fortnite/pubg clone with zombies. I can't really whine though because the game did cost me 10 bucks and I did enjoy A16. However A17 and A18 rely on the gamers to set up servers running with multiple mods to fix the game and make it enjoyable for more than 10 hours . Finally, I think with A19 I'm going to completely stop playing the game since the devs are going to remove any serious resemblance to a survival game. I bet it's all going to be guns and glory with magical reseting buildings ,cars providing the tools to build an entire base and the devs will still say to forums "GIT GUD LOL" while they are playing with 4 different types of blocks with horribly misplaced traps while they use cheat firearms for killing hundreds of zombies . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadamier Posted November 8, 2019 Author Share Posted November 8, 2019 Well... So where to start... Well I didn't care for the change but after doing some serious mining as I am meant to do lol I'm wondering if my post here was a bit premature... Problem was with my service and they've took it upon themselves to change my dedi's IP, not once but twice - which caused me headaches until I noticed that they did that... Now then... I am getting a relative amount of iron while mining, albeit it probably should be tweaked some - a little bit upwards. I've found a few... Well let me define the 'iron ore' blocks on the surface as "Nodes" so that there's no confusion. I've found a few triple nodes and marked them. I've found many double nodes too. With those triple nodes I'm getting a decent amount of iron. As I noted - I don't know nor have measured the time it takes to mine from previous alphas as opposed to A18.1 (b6) so the adjustment may not be necessary. Anyway I've been mining this one Triple Node and so far have gotten 32K iron out of it in an entire day. As for iron mining iron I have no images nor videos... But I do have an image for nitrate! This was Alpha 16 (b138) and I vaguely remember mining this one and it was like 12k of nitrate a full day. I was mining and others actually jumped in and started mining too since we didn't have any lol But with A18.1 (b6) I have yet to manage that since the ores seem to be intermingled as they probably should be. For nitrate I've mined probably 8k in a day which would actually seem more realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 This.....this just pisses me off. When I first read that, I thought it was a joke, or a bit of hyperbole. Search this list for "voxel" and let me know how many hits you find. Is your conclusion that voxel zombie games don't sell? Why not have a bit of faith in yourself and consider that you've created a unique, desirable niche...or just go compete with the 99 other companies for that thin, thin slice of pie. TFP should act like men and stand behind their creation. -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDog1942 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 OMG instead of putting raw in the forge to make stuff, I need to put Iron in the forge to make stuff. How dare they dumb this down! It was so much more complicated putting RAW iron in the forge rather that just plain iron!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2n1 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 If I could do it all over again I'd have thrown out the diggable terrain. Alpha 1 could have had static Unity terrain, a simple water plane, ran 30% better, used way less ram, console wouldn't have been so beat down, allowed faster vehicles, looked as good as 18's terrain does now, (Minus the Justin talent) and we wouldn't have wasted energy on mining, cave systems, multiple versions of trees, etc. Mining could have been mining POIs with respawning nuggets like rust/skyrim/subnautica with a nice model. We'd anger 10% and gain 200% new players that don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about deformable terrain and buggy water. At some point we might release a static terrain option for 7 days just to see the performance gains. IMO most people would run it for the performance gains and better pvp, none of this wimpy underground base business, fight like a man like in TWD. You don't see those guys living in caves/mines. What may have made us great has also slowed us down and kept us indy looking/performing. I think mining is ok but its not part of the secret sauce, we'd still have mining it just wouldn't be ugly 3d mining. At this point we'd kind of solved it mostly but it could have saved us a lot of time and headaches, allowing us to focus on cool stuff like we are able to now. The problem is that it seems MM not understands that his game without features which they laid in the early - is just a non-competitive bul**it with bad graphics, ridiculous mocap and friezes. It seems that he revised his "business plan" in accordance with modern trends and thinks that he can make a "looter-shooter" on the existing base with a voxel engine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cernwn Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 LMAO at all the tears, tantrums, table-flipping, teeth-gnashing, hand-wringing and general whinging over the simple replacement of iron ore with scrap iron. For those that enjoy more complicated mining+ore processing mechanics, you would think people never heard of MeanCloud's modlets: https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?131108 FFS tho people - grow a pair! It is fine to say you like or dislike something and why. That is healthy, constructive feedback. But to carry on and on about it, going back and forth with each other, and giving the devs ulcers with your incessant demands... No one is stopping any of you from playing A16, or ANY of the older builds. If that is your favorite, go load it up in the launcher. It IS EOL however, nostalgia always lies, and I will continue to play whatever bleeding-edge bug-ridden mess TFP release as experimental. At least we get it same time as the streamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Fun Pimps need a proper Community Manager. Deciding stuff behind closed doors and pushing changes with no warning or explanation is a recipe for totally unnecessary drama and Steam review diatribes. A little transparency goes a LONG way with this kind of stuff. Let people know what you're thinking and WHY you're making a particular change and you cut down on dissent and hurt feelings preemptively. The job of a community manager is to put a safety wall between developers and community and FILTER and sugarcoat information, not add to it. YOU don't want a community manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickaavv Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I agree with a lot of people on here, some of these changes are starting to look like a trend in a bad direction. Similar to what happened to the deus ex series, the first game was fantastic but the second game was complete "streamlined" garbage. The complexity was what made this game great, please don't stream line it into a dumbed down shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicUs5000 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I like how a few people pop into this thread read the title, see the number of pages, and assume this whole thread has been nothing but a bunch of complaining and whining. There are a few posts in here like that, but no more than in most threads in this forum. It's even better when they immediately use that false pretense to make a post that makes them feel better about themselves by attempting to belittle a group of people that aren't even really in this thread. This thread is actually a rarity.... so many different perspectives and in-depth thoughts about the direction of the game. It is silly that it was sparked by a rock, but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor3D Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I could have made a case as to how this does make the game easier and it actually isn't 'just an icon' - I didn't because I don't even see the point anymore, it makes such a little difference compared to the original simplification of crafting that occurred during and after A13. I just ran out of breath and energy even talking about it. But, the general idea is that you can't slap raw ore onto a wooden-wall - but now you can go straight into a mine and have material ready to instantly throw on the wall without having to worry about time - or creating screamer heat by smelting it down. Of course, who even uses wood anymore? They got rid of that early progression back then too with the auto-upgrade magic nail-gun system..So, yeah..It just don't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 If I could do it all over again I'd have thrown out the diggable terrain. Alpha 1 could have had static Unity terrain, a simple water plane, ran 30% better, used way less ram, console wouldn't have been so beat down, allowed faster vehicles, looked as good as 18's terrain does now, (Minus the Justin talent) and we wouldn't have wasted energy on mining, cave systems, multiple versions of trees, etc. Mining could have been mining POIs with respawning nuggets like rust/skyrim/subnautica with a nice model. We'd anger 10% and gain 200% new players that don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about deformable terrain and buggy water. At some point we might release a static terrain option for 7 days just to see the performance gains. IMO most people would run it for the performance gains and better pvp, none of this wimpy underground base business, fight like a man like in TWD. You don't see those guys living in caves/mines. What may have made us great has also slowed us down and kept us indy looking/performing. I think mining is ok but its not part of the secret sauce, we'd still have mining it just wouldn't be ugly 3d mining. At this point we'd kind of solved it mostly but it could have saved us a lot of time and headaches, allowing us to focus on cool stuff like we are able to now. Its unfortunate that Atomic chose to bring up this quote out of context just to be snarky with his conspiracy theory. I encourage anyone who is upset by this quote to follow the link back and read the following several pages where Madmole clearly explained that he was simply musing about what might have been and also venting a bit about how difficult it has been to develop a game with voxels vs how much easier it would have been without voxels. He goes on to say that they will never remove voxels from the game and at most might create a static world as an option-- maybe for Horde Mode or something. Using this quote all by itself out of context and without the following clarifications is a trollish move that will just anger and worry new users or those who did not follow the conversation-- and for no reason. Voxels won't be going away. There is no plan to get rid of the world we currently have. Be responsible and go read the actual full conversation that followed or don't and be pissed and betrayed and horrified for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychodabble Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 The job of a community manager is to put a safety wall between developers and community and FILTER and sugarcoat information, not add to it. YOU don't want a community manager. That's not what real Community Managers do. If you look at the work Community Manager Bex does for Grinding Gear Games, you see the potential of the position. She is worshipped by the community and makes GGG's often frustrating design decisions understandable and palatable to the raging masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 She is worshipped by the community Guess why? It's the sugarcoating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychodabble Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Guess why? It's the sugarcoating It's really not. You shouldn't talk about somebody's work when you don't know what you're talking about. Bex doesn't sugarcoat anything. She just acts as a channel for clear communication of what the dev team is thinking and why they make the decisions they do. Look at the Development Manifestos she puts together for GGG. Even when the team comes to unpopular decisions, Bex explains the thought behind them and that helps people to accept them. Bex is worshipped by the community because she doesn't condescend to them or treat them like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s. She's honest and present and owns up to mistakes by acknowledging them as mistakes, apologizing, and explaining how they happened. I don't know if you were trying to make a joke here, but if you were it was in poor taste and unfunny. The relationship between an indy game company and its customers is serious business, ESPECIALLY when that company has only one game. GGG understands that. It's really too bad that TFP doesn't, because the relationship with its customers has been souring for a while and it doesn't have to be that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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