Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

[quyxkh]

I do agree with the better barter tho.

 

For another data point: I think I've never put a point into better barter. Traderless is a thing, try it, it's a great game. I think they're necessary as backstops in case RNGesus hates you, then you can trade a few stacks of repair kits and whatever, but relying on them for gear and direction? That's a choice you can make.

[th3s0n1c]

For another data point: I think I've never put a point into better barter. Traderless is a thing, try it, it's a great game. I think they're necessary as backstops in case RNGesus hates you, then you can trade a few stacks of repair kits and whatever, but relying on them for gear and direction? That's a choice you can make.

 

It's a playstyle decision. You can totally play without perking into it. Or using traders at all.

The point we're making here is that, unlike any other perk, it allows for items that we cant obtain in any other way.

You can ignore advanced engineering, in EG, and still get all the items available if you perked into it. The same applies for grease monkey, yeah science, miner 69er, etc. But Better Barter is an exception, since it's the only way to get power cells and solar banks. You cant get these in any other way. No schematics, no looting, no rewards. Which means, balancing-wise, that you are objectively locked out of one of the game's features.

And you should either make choices matter by "this is the only way to get it" to all decisions or make no exceptions at all.

[TWORDY]

So far I really like alpha 18 over the last versions of the game. I would like to share some of the ideas based on my experience since A11 and other post-apo games like Fallout 1,2, Tactics, S.T.A.L.K.E.R base games and mods, METRO series, Escape from Trakov in which I struggle recently.

 

I feel like crafting has become less vital due to implementation of tool/weapon parts and schematics. 6 tier equipment is possible to be found before getting into crafting tier 5 tool/weapon. Parts and schematics should be more common and 6 tier equipment much harder to be dropped from loot/boxes than any other tier.

 

Some of the people complained about current state of Cement Mixers. I would rather nerf cement mixers by decreasing the rate of other materials are being mixed/produced by 50%. External powering could enable 100% mixing rate as well as converting stone to sand. Rising the price from 4500 to 5500 is always an option to. Such change would slightly slow down the progression in obtaining tons of concrete straight away.

 

Since some of the stuff has to be found for Forges in my humble opinion something similar can be done with Workbenches. For example advanced Vice could be lootable and ascribed to Workbenches same as Anvil for Forges. Specialistic Toolkit / Toolset with wrenches, screwdrivers etc. Such addition would force players to actually go outside in search for upgrades.

 

I honestly find so many tiers in weapons/armor/tools meaningles and whole idea feels more like a filler due to a lack of more innovative mechanics in the game. Especially now, because most of the equipment has got randomized stats and tiers mostly express duralibility to mine comprehension. To fulfill my needs there might be only 4 tiers (BASIC, STANDARD, ADVANCED, SPECIALISTIC) instead of 6. I prefer things to be simple and graphic abundance of things only brings unnecessary confusion, greater lack of balance and long term illusion of progress. Hopefully we got over spam crafting, thank God.

 

Since stamina has to be implemented to keep things more realistic/hardcore (stamina bar seems hardcore nowadays), devs should rather think more about gameplay mechanics. Charging zombies are fun but the fun ends with zero stamina on my side.

 

Ive read some comments and it seems bows/crossbows turn out to be completely useless in most instances. Since basic bow is so bad people switch to pistol as soon as they find any, forget about arrow business, and as a result never come back. I believe zombies could be triggered by sound more easily, to additionally counter it, silent walk could be implemented not only by hitting crouch button. 1 arrow to the head could eventually neutralize the zombie standard. I dont see the reason why stealth perks should be separate at this point, unless someone wants to fill perk tree with something. Few tweaks and stealth fight with bows could become viable back again instead of going full rambo with a shotgun. Tactical sprint (fast as possible) after hitting W (forward key twice) without the possibility to aim and should would be useful.

 

Additional plans for candies do not bring much of excitement from my perspective, seems like another feature that delivers new icons and temporary XML value buffs. I only hope that the new buffs will last at least 5 minutes and not necessary multiply by 3 or 4 times. Actually painkillers could neutralize stun effect, make character to move normally with sprangled leg, or faster with broken leg. Right now painkillers stop bleeding effect... why?

 

Saying that gameplay with weapons is medicore in this particular case should work as a compliement. I mean mostly animations and weapons overall feeling is turbo average, I know this is a placeholder probably but still. I lost my faith after opening fire with HP rounds at zombie soldiers. Several mags at 2 of them and none of them died even when I though some bullets reached their faces. Tell me, how much would it take to make crosshairs static instead of dynamic / stretching / simulating recoil while rounds are being shot? Disappear while zooming in?

 

I don't want to sound negative about the game. I'm trying to depict the situation as best as I can.

 

Keep up the good work.

[meganoth]

I lost my faith after opening fire with HP rounds at zombie soldiers. Several mags at 2 of them and none of them died even when I though some bullets reached their faces.

 

Ingame description text for HP 9mm ammo: "A jacketed hollow point round used as firearm ammunition. Substantially increased base damage but ineffective against heavy armor"

 

Maybe you missed that?

[ZombieSurvivor]

@twordy

 

If I may so kindly add. If you are going to shoot zombie soldiers you should be using AP not HP. Unless the game does not follow logic. I dunno because I've never used AP or HP rounds in this game but lets assume AP does pen armor. that would be the correct ammo since soldiers zombies have armor on.

 

#Arrows #ShotgunLover

[Dreyseth]

@twordy

 

If I may so kindly add. If you are going to shoot zombie soldiers you should be using AP not HP. Unless the game does not follow logic. I dunno because I've never used AP or HP rounds in this game but lets assume AP does pen armor. that would be the correct ammo since soldiers zombies have armor on.

 

#Arrows #ShotgunLover

 

I think that a sound cue could go a long way to indicate the effectiveness of the various ammo. The current hit indicator sounds could reflect whether the ammo is being used effectively or merely bouncing off the intended target

[th3s0n1c]

Ive read some comments and it seems bows/crossbows turn out to be completely useless in most instances. Since basic bow is so bad people switch to pistol as soon as they find any, forget about arrow business, and as a result never come back. I believe zombies could be triggered by sound more easily, to additionally counter it, silent walk could be implemented not only by hitting crouch button. 1 arrow to the head could eventually neutralize the zombie standard. I dont see the reason why stealth perks should be separate at this point, unless someone wants to fill perk tree with something. Few tweaks and stealth fight with bows could become viable back again instead of going full rambo with a shotgun. Tactical sprint (fast as possible) after hitting W (forward key twice) without the possibility to aim and should would be useful.

 

Saying that gameplay with weapons is medicore in this particular case should work as a compliement. I mean mostly animations and weapons overall feeling is turbo average, I know this is a placeholder probably but still. I lost my faith after opening fire with HP rounds at zombie soldiers. Several mags at 2 of them and none of them died even when I though some bullets reached their faces.

 

I'm running a stealth bow build on my playthrough on warrior difficulty and I'm one-shotting every zombie. Except for some radiateds (but they die on the 2nd arrow). I think it's a viable build. I dont know how viable it is on pvp, but single player and pve it works just fine.

 

It is a bit weird that HP bullets basically do no damage to soldiers (and demolishers)

[Gazz]

It is a bit weird that HP bullets basically do no damage to soldiers (and demolishers)

In what way is that weird? That's how these things work.

 

They are actually a more realistic implementation than in many games.

With armor they do very low damage but due to their high energy transfer they have a higher chance to knock zombies over.

[th3s0n1c]

In what way is that weird? That's how these things work.

 

They are actually a more realistic implementation than in many games.

With armor they do very low damage but due to their high energy transfer they have a higher chance to knock zombies over.

 

My bad, I wasnt very specific. I meant to say that it is weird that armored targets basically take no damage from being shot in the face or uncovered parts of their bodies - as the person I was replying to had stated he spent SEVERAL magazines and wasnt able to kill them.

[Laz Man]

Balancing-wise, I still stand by all of this.

 

Junk turrets will get balance for sure. It will rebalance as a tier 2 wpn for the int tree while the new junk sledge will be the new tier 1 wpn for the int tree.

[Adam the Waster]

Junk turrets will get balance for sure. It will rebalance as a tier 2 wpn for the int tree while the new junk sledge will be the new tier 1 wpn for the int tree.

 

man screw the Junk turret!

 

 

THE JUNK SLEDGE SOUNDS BADASS!! ill call mine "the Flogger"

[Adam the Waster]

Ok so after playing A18 alot i want to give my feed back.

 

 

The good.

 

Nearly everything with weapons.

how every armor is useful

Fire helmet is cool!

Books all the way!!!

the Shape menu is great!

perks and how weapons/tools are tied to level.

Double barrel!

POI decorations!

Lockpicks!

Demolishes: Love the sound , look and ability.

Updated Icons/Items/Cars

 

-------------------------------------------

The Ok!

 

Zombie rage. don't love it or hate it its just there.

Food/drink sicknesses: only thing i would change is that Easier foods/drinks to craft should have a hire chance of Sickness (to make people want to craft better foods)

 

nearly everything else.

---------------------------------------------------------

The bad/dislikes

 

Building is to quick. in term of tiers its just to easy to get to Concrete. i would have it (Wood , ren Wood, Stone , Brick , Scrap , Ren Scrap , Concrete, Ren concrete , Steel!

 

Ease of loot: Basically how many reinforced chest their are in just basic homes and super easy areas. for those places that can take around 2 to 3 mins to complete like homes and other low tier POIS. just put boxes of loot like in stores. 1 , 2 or 3.

 

Thats really it as far as i can remember.

 

but i really like A18

[agrastiOs]

I really like A18, just only one thing bugs me: weapon/tool schematics are pretty useless? They allow you to craft a level 1 weapon/tool which I doubt you would want to do, and you don't want level 1 weapons/tools at the time you have the sufficient materials to craft that weapon.

[th3s0n1c]

I really like A18, just only one thing bugs me: weapon/tool schematics are pretty useless? They allow you to craft a level 1 weapon/tool which I doubt you would want to do, and you don't want level 1 weapons/tools at the time you have the sufficient materials to craft that weapon.

 

The quality is attached to the knowledge you have over the item (perk). So it makes perfect sense that you might be able to learn how to craft something, but it wont be top quality since you're not a specialist in that item, therefore, not being aware of how to make it better by correcting flaws and improving its qualities.

Think of it this way: you can look up online a manual or a video on how to forge a sword and, given the proper materials, be able to forge your own. But it will not be the same quality level a sword that was forged by a blacksmith specialized on forging swords. And if you want to make better swords, you're gonna have to study it. Or buy it. Or find a better one.

[Hollowprime]

Suggestions:

1. Tier V clear and clear/fetch quests should give better rewards for quests that might last an entire day minimum. They should reward an entire level worth of experience (iirc ~180,000 experience) and at least five digit credits.
   
2. The solar panels should cost far less amounts of credits. I personally don't have money problems (thanks to drawbridges and chassis) but it's still a grinding issue . Worse multiple cells are needed to power basic traps.
   
3. All man-made craftable items should be craftable : engines, solar cells, springs and mechanical parts, acid, beakers etc. Making them expensive by using rare materials and other diffucult to craft man-made objects could be required to offset the balance.
   
4. Wrenches should get a +5 damage. A maxed out wrench (level 6, maxed perk, fully modded with iron breaker) requires 3 hits to wrench 300 hp blocks leaving them with ~5 hp
   
5. Bigger cable distances. I can't stress this enough. There are traps that require more than 10 blocks of space to build and they CAN'T be build even with cable extenders. E.g. double 5 width pressure plate with dart traps on each side with electric fences: can't be built because of cable limits.
   
6. AND/OR gates needed for electric traps. E.g. multiple pressure plates should be able to trigger the same traps.
   

 

Bugs:

1. Wrenches can be heard in pvp even when crouching.
   
2. The terrain can sometimes make the player get stuck midair (loading issue perhaps? )
   
3. The simple poles have a hidden 600% damage multiplier. It should be stated or removed as poles are weak and unfit for base building.
   
4. The battery banks do not work correctly in series. If battery bank A is connected to battery bank B which is connected to traps and A is depleted, B will not provide power to components.
   

[Gnomaana]

 

Bugs:

1. Wrenches can be heard in pvp even when crouching.
   
2. The terrain can sometimes make the player get stuck midair (loading issue perhaps? )
   
3. The simple poles have a hidden 600% damage multiplier. It should be stated or removed as poles are weak and unfit for base building.
   
4. The battery banks do not work correctly in series. If battery bank A is connected to battery bank B which is connected to traps and A is depleted, B will not provide power to components.
   

 

Connecting batteries in series increases voltage, It does not increase overall amp-hour capacity. If you want to hook up batteries so they last longer in a device(e.g. a trap) the only way to increase the time usable would be to connect the batteries in parallel. Technically speaking, connecting them in a series should short out your trap and make it useless.

[Hollowprime]

Connecting batteries in series increases voltage, It does not increase overall amp-hour capacity. If you want to hook up batteries so they last longer in a device(e.g. a trap) the only way to increase the time usable would be to connect the batteries in parallel. Technically speaking, connecting them in a series should short out your trap and make it useless.

 

Yeah you are very right sir. But if I recall correctly we don't have parallel connections for batteries at least.

 

This is where realism would really help... Connect everything in parallel (except power source) and worry not about what component dies out. Either that or battery banks have many more slots.

[Guest Baratan]

a18 Balancing Feedback

Progression is too fast. I don't believe that level gating is a good solution since many perks have level requirements already. But, in my games I find a lot of AK47s, military armor and steel and power tools long before I feel like I should. I'm in week 1 for example and have an auger, chainsaw, 4 ak47s, 3 iron pickaxes and I can't even make a forge yet.

I have to spend my first 5 points in INT if I want to be self sufficient. Even in a multiplayer game we all feel like we need to do this in order to make our own basic crafting stations. I'm not sure what the solution to this is, but running around for two in-game weeks without a forge or workbench is really frustrating for players. I always unlock those things first but other players don't like being told how to play.

I may not be explaining this in a way that makes sense. When I offer solutions to struggling players they get upset that there choices are wrong because they're not getting the results they want for example from an agility build because they can't make repair kits without a workbench.

[meganoth]

a18 Balancing Feedback

Progression is too fast. I don't believe that level gating is a good solution since many perks have level requirements already. But, in my games I find a lot of AK47s, military armor and steel and power tools long before I feel like I should. I'm in week 1 for example and have an auger, chainsaw, 4 ak47s, 3 iron pickaxes and I can't even make a forge yet.

I have to spend my first 5 points in INT if I want to be self sufficient. Even in a multiplayer game we all feel like we need to do this in order to make our own basic crafting stations. I'm not sure what the solution to this is, but running around for two in-game weeks without a forge or workbench is really frustrating for players. I always unlock those things first but other players don't like being told how to play.

I may not be explaining this in a way that makes sense. When I offer solutions to struggling players they get upset that there choices are wrong because they're not getting the results they want for example from an agility build because they can't make repair kits without a workbench.

 

You are aware of the alternative method to get a workbench early?

[Guest Baratan]

Listen I am able to get a forge and workbench but like I was trying to say I am one person on a multiplayer server of 6 players and I listen to them complain about these things constantly and when I offer them those suggestions it just leads to complaining about being told how to play or not wanting to do those things. I really don't know what the solution is but I do know that 4 out of 6 players complaining about the same thing constantly may be something that the developers would like to know about.

The forge, I never see for sale or find one to use. I always have to make a forge if I want access to one without exception. This is not a problem for me because I always use my first point to unlock it but I am one person and the other people for some reason would rather not spend that one point.

Workbenches are a little better and also a little worse. I personally rush to unlock this with my 4th point, but the other players again, don't want to make an INT build so they don't unlock this ability. You can find them in garages, sometimes working and the trader sometimes sells the plan for this, unlike the forge but if they don't find one by the time the gun they looted is broken the complaining commences.

This is just my personal preference, but a system like Ravenhearst where weapon and tool skills increase by usage and crafting skills are in the perk trees work better when the player wants to craft something that's in a different tree than the weapon and armor type they want to use. It would be nice to have that flexibility. I think it's really just an issue with the labeling of the perk trees. Maybe if they were called, Combat with all the weapons and armors in it. Gathering with the mining and farming skills, Crafting with the workbenches and chemistry in it. It sounds silly and more or less a name change but I think it might help with those complaints. I think. Maybe.

[meganoth]

Listen I am able to get a forge and workbench but like I was trying to say I am one person on a multiplayer server of 6 players and I listen to them complain about these things constantly and when I offer them those suggestions it just leads to complaining about being told how to play or not wanting to do those things. I really don't know what the solution is but I do know that 4 out of 6 players complaining about the same thing constantly may be something that the developers would like to know about.

The forge, I never see for sale or find one to use. I always have to make a forge if I want access to one without exception. This is not a problem for me because I always use my first point to unlock it but I am one person and the other people for some reason would rather not spend that one point.

Workbenches are a little better and also a little worse. I personally rush to unlock this with my 4th point, but the other players again, don't want to make an INT build so they don't unlock this ability. You can find them in garages, sometimes working and the trader sometimes sells the plan for this, unlike the forge but if they don't find one by the time the gun they looted is broken the complaining commences.

This is just my personal preference, but a system like Ravenhearst where weapon and tool skills increase by usage and crafting skills are in the perk trees work better when the player wants to craft something that's in a different tree than the weapon and armor type they want to use. It would be nice to have that flexibility. I think it's really just an issue with the labeling of the perk trees. Maybe if they were called, Combat with all the weapons and armors in it. Gathering with the mining and farming skills, Crafting with the workbenches and chemistry in it. It sounds silly and more or less a name change but I think it might help with those complaints. I think. Maybe.

 

Buying the forge-perk is a no-brainer, sure, that is why I didn't mention it. TFP needs to put a lot more forges into POIs for scavenging being a real alternative to buying that point.

 

Buying the workstation perk is an option, to play it safe, nothing more. In A18 half of the destroyed workstations have the recipe as loot. Lots of people now actually hope to find destroyed instead of working ones. You must be VERY unlucky to not get the recipe in a few days if you set your mind to it.

 

A while ago I made the suggestion to rename the attributes to class names or professions. AGI would be the Assassin, INT the Scientist, PER the Scavenger, STR the Miner, FOR the Brute or Commando. Maybe even with names so it is clear that Joe the Miner is a fan of shotguns, not every miner in the world. But Madmole waved the idea aside. Maybe when more people post similar ideas TFP might change their minds, who knows.

[NukemDed]

if its coop then make one for your mates

if its pvp laugh and enjoy your advantage that their stubbornness has given you.

i dont want to go to work today

no one is telling me i have to but i do to a degree if i want to survive and definitely have to if i want nice things .

anyway, 1 point on day 1 to be able to make a forge is cheap and a bit too easy imo. it should be harder to get.

[TSBX]

Buying the forge-perk is a no-brainer, sure, that is why I didn't mention it. TFP needs to put a lot more forges into POIs for scavenging being a real alternative to buying that point.

 

Buying the workstation perk is an option, to play it safe, nothing more. In A18 half of the destroyed workstations have the recipe as loot. Lots of people now actually hope to find destroyed instead of working ones. You must be VERY unlucky to not get the recipe in a few days if you set your mind to it.

 

A while ago I made the suggestion to rename the attributes to class names or professions. AGI would be the Assassin, INT the Scientist, PER the Scavenger, STR the Miner, FOR the Brute or Commando. Maybe even with names so it is clear that Joe the Miner is a fan of shotguns, not every miner in the world. But Madmole waved the idea aside. Maybe when more people post similar ideas TFP might change their minds, who knows.

 

Ew. Why do people want this game to be so bland? This isn't Fortnite or Apex Legends or Dota or something where everything has to be calculated for min-maxers. Pre-defined classes are the opposite of what should be in an open world survival game, and would further contribute to draining the water from what was at one time a deep experience with plenty of upside in the pipes.

[quyxkh]

Progression is too fast.

Agreed there, pretty sure TFP see it too, you're joining a long queue of impassioned "slow it down!"s and they've agreed with several suggestions. I have high hopes that the early game will get some lovin', my own private success metric is keeping gunplay and trap usage to a minimum, melee, archery, molotovs, those are fun. And I haven't tried everything yet.

I have to spend my first 5 points in INT if I want to be self sufficient

I don't. I spend one point in INT week 1, to get my very own forge, playing jack-of-all-trades traderless which I think qualifies as taking "self-sufficient" seriously. My SP startup perks are pete s.tyr 69er cardio, then chef and forge, then I'll run str up to 5 for the 3 pete and 4 s.tyr/69er before I start on food and health and workshop, then it's whatever I want. Seems to me somebody has to run 69er up to 4 or so, otherwise home invasions are just godawful slow. Similarly with cooking, somebody on the crew should have at least 2 of that. I can do without my very own workbench/chemstation for a while because there's always a working workbench handy in some garage or basement nearby and I don't need meds or molotovs until about week 3 or so, by which time the extra 7? points to build everything short of power is a mnior expense, a cost-of-doing-business affair and only one player needs to spend it. And two of that is for molotov production, my current favorite crowd control..

[Guest Baratan]

Ew. Why do people want this game to be so bland? This isn't Fortnite or Apex Legends or Dota or something where everything has to be calculated for min-maxers. Pre-defined classes are the opposite of what should be in an open world survival game, and would further contribute to draining the water from what was at one time a deep experience with plenty of upside in the pipes.

Why does someone who uses a shotgun need a different build than someone who makes first aid kits. The system in place now places arbitrary restrictions on character development. No one wants predefined classes and that's the problem with the current system. If you want to do one thing you are pigeonholed into other totally irrelevant things that happen to be assigned to the same attribute.

I think if we separated choices of weapon, armor, gathering and crafting into different categories players would have more choices than they do now.

I'm not here to solve the percieved problem, just doing my best to communicate the collective useful feedback of my group of 6 players.

 

That is one part of it.

The other part is that the progression seems to be too fast, maybe too rng would be more accurate. I have an AK47, iron pickaxe, chainsaw and auger all because of rng loot in week 1. Another player has a motorcycle and another player is still looking for a workbench. If this is the developers intent then, bravo wai. If not, I think they'd like to know.