Weekend Arguments

[PurgatoryWolf]

Driving around on BM to avoid zombies, isn't much different than people climbing up towers in a POI to avoid BM. Or attempting to swim all night to avoid it, or what ever else means they will do. some people just dont like BM and will do whatever to not deal with it. youll never be able to FORCE people to deal with it, because they will always come up with a way to avoid it if that's what they want to do.

[suicidalhamster]

Driving around on BM to avoid zombies, isn't much different than people climbing up towers in a POI to avoid BM. Or attempting to swim all night to avoid it, or what ever else means they will do. some people just dont like BM and will do whatever to not deal with it. youll never be able to FORCE people to deal with it, because they will always come up with a way to avoid it if that's what they want to do.

 

there are no significant rewards (or hazards) to taking on the BM horde. until there is some sort of call to action to face the BM horde, nothing will change

[Dimpy]

Driving around on BM to avoid zombies, isn't much different than people climbing up towers in a POI to avoid BM. Or attempting to swim all night to avoid it, or what ever else means they will do. some people just dont like BM and will do whatever to not deal with it. youll never be able to FORCE people to deal with it, because they will always come up with a way to avoid it if that's what they want to do.

 

How exactly do you define "dealing with" the horde?

[AtomicUs5000]

Driving around on BM to avoid zombies, isn't much different than people climbing up towers in a POI to avoid BM. Or attempting to swim all night to avoid it, or what ever else means they will do. some people just dont like BM and will do whatever to not deal with it. youll never be able to FORCE people to deal with it, because they will always come up with a way to avoid it if that's what they want to do.

 

We're discussing the removal of these loopholes as well.

We do not want to remove the possibility of avoiding the horde.

We want the possibility of avoiding the horde to be as rewarding and challenging as survival by defense.

Those who dislike BM that much have been provided with a way to turn it off.

[Drifter]

One answer to BM avoidance could be to have the zombies go after any structures or stations that players have recently interacted with. By recently I mean within minutes to get people who logged off or went for a ride to avoid a the fight without wrecking someone who hasn't been online for a while.

 

Then for a carrot to go with that stick, BM zombies should have some drops among them - good drops that don't vanish until well after the BM.

[AtomicUs5000]

One answer to BM avoidance could be to have the zombies go after any structures or stations that players have recently interacted with. By recently I mean within minutes to get people who logged off or went for a ride to avoid a the fight without wrecking someone who hasn't been online for a while.

 

I have thought of this before. At first it seemed like a good idea, but then a few problems came up...

1) It wouldn't be fair if this was multiplayer and you lost connection for a moment.

2) How do you justify this behavior with the zombies? The lore is that they can sense players no matter what. Is it too far-fetched that they can also know where you were?

3) Wouldn't you just spend the day somewhere else?

[SnowDog1942]

Same. So... you're B as well. That's my point. <shrug>

 

Not sure how be B can be both for and against having challenges driving on horde night and underground zombies.

[Drifter]

I have thought of this before. At first it seemed like a good idea, but then a few problems came up...

1) It wouldn't be fair if this was multiplayer and you lost connection for a moment.

2) How do you justify this behavior with the zombies? The lore is that they can sense players no matter what. Is it too far-fetched that they can also know where you were?

3) Wouldn't you just spend the day somewhere else?

 

1: Yep, that would suck and would be a downside of this method.

2: Zombies had a sense of smell before. BM enraged zombies can smell live humans for miles. I could buy that thy can scent even where humans were and what they touched.

3: Someone could do that but they wouldn't be able to work around their base. They could also log back in to find a crowd of zombies in the space where they logged out.

 

 

Now even as I read over this, I'm feeling that the carrot might be what really makes the difference. Things you can only get by not only weathering a BM horde but by fighting and annihilating it.

[OzHawkeye]

Now even as I read over this, I'm feeling that the carrot might be what really makes the difference. Things you can only get by not only weathering a BM horde but by fighting and annihilating it.

 

As in the many threads on this subject in the GD room, I think that's both the easiest and best way to stop players avoiding the BM Horde. An incentive to wipe it out entirely would give players a positive reason not to avoid it.

 

That said, since the BM Horde can be turned off entirely now, I also can't see any real reasons for anyone to object to any systems the Pimps might put in place to hinder BM Horde avoidance, so long as those mechanisms only activate when the BM Horde itself is activated.

[Qyzer]

As far as I'm concerned, using a base with traps, walls, and turrets is the exploit. On the ground, on foot, all BM night long is how I prefer to handle things. Though there was a time when ladders killed me more than zombies and a couple zombies were my doom.

 

The main server I play on is deserted come BM even though a handful of us seem to love it, but after every one someone complains about how crappy one or two loot bags are as a reward. The problem isn't people skipping or avoiding Blood Moons, its addressing why they avoid or skip them and nerfing vehicles doesn't address this at all, it just adds more reasons for more people to skip BM on multiplayer or just turn it off on singleplayer. While I agree that survival is my reward for the increased difficulty of how I play, I think it would be great if everyone else had a reason to want to do BMs as well.

 

As for nerfing gas drops, all that means is I start my shale mine earlier.

[AtomicUs5000]

1: Yep, that would suck and would be a downside of this method.

2: Zombies had a sense of smell before. BM enraged zombies can smell live humans for miles. I could buy that thy can scent even where humans were and what they touched.

3: Someone could do that but they wouldn't be able to work around their base. They could also log back in to find a crowd of zombies in the space where they logged out.

Now even as I read over this, I'm feeling that the carrot might be what really makes the difference. Things you can only get by not only weathering a BM horde but by fighting and annihilating it.

 

I could get on board for #2 as well.

#3... that is true, if they followed this scent idea. I have a feeling that this would be difficult to work in. Madmole had made suggestions that imply the possibility of events occurring in areas where the player isn't... so I suppose it may be a possibility one day. I don't see this happening anytime soon though.

 

I think the best bet for right now is the implementation of the gas balance and improve the AI to target moving vehicles, along with damaging and slowing down said vehicles when hit. We can see how that goes and then revisit these loopholes.

[Aurelius]

There is a significant difference between

 

A) Turning off blood moon hordes

B) Using resources and player skill to avoid blood moon hordes

 

Turning off the BM hordes takes no skill, and requires no interaction from the player. For me - BORING.

 

Being able to avoid the BM horde via bike, or hiding, or whatever SERT tactic a player finds effective IS GOOD GAME PLAY.

 

Most people need to recognize that the current problem is a balance issue in terms of gas, or zombies being able to reach the player, or whatever else it may be - not that they are able to avoid the BM horde.

 

-A

[Guppycur]

Not sure how be B can be both for and against having challenges driving on horde night and underground zombies.

 

B isn't against challenges. It's against dumb knee jerk reaction.

[bdubyah]

I don't think they can stop people from skipping or avoiding the BM. And they probably shouldn't try.

 

I am, however, down for zombies affecting vehicles as discussed earlier. That's just a cool mechanic to have in the game, BM time or not. Gas nerfing probably makes sense as well.

 

And I also agree that more of an incentive for clearing the horde could be a good idea. I know MM didn't seem to agree, as just surviving is a reward I suppose. But like others have mentioned, maybe it's not necessarily a god tier loot drop, but maybe just lower the zombies around your base for maybe half of the next week. Or disable wandering hordes for a few days. I also think making it lower gamestage could be cool too. I know loot is tied to GS, but maybe you could have loot and zombies on their own separate GS lists, and have surviving a BM just lower the zombie side of it. Could be like a temporary buff type deal that lasts a few days.

[SnowDog1942]

B isn't against challenges. It's against dumb knee jerk reaction.

 

But thats an opinion. If everyone in group B thinks diggers are a dumb knee jerk reaction, then I am not part of that group. I love them.

 

Group B cant be for AND against diggers can they?

[Guppycur]

But thats an opinion. If everyone in group B thinks diggers are a dumb knee jerk reaction, then I am not part of that group. I love them.

 

Group B cant be for AND against diggers can they?

 

I forget that you like to argue just to argue, but I have your Team B jersey for when you're ready.

[Aldranon]

But thats an opinion. If everyone in group B thinks diggers are a dumb knee jerk reaction, then I am not part of that group. I love them.

 

Group B cant be for AND against diggers can they?

 

And this is why multiple inheritance in programming is ultimately a bad idea. The guy who designed C++ regretted making the IO class. He said later that having a Input class and a separate Output class would have been superior.

 

So, having as many player game options as possible would be the best for most people. It would be a superior game.

 

Some people don't like others having options, but that's a topic for another forum.

[RestInPieces]

While I agree that survival is my reward for the increased difficulty of how I play, I think it would be great if everyone else had a reason to want to do BMs as well.

 

Survival can only be as important as the implications of not surviving. Period. If the implications are near zero, survival's value is also near zero. No wonder none really sees it as a reward. Hence the "give us more rewards" request. And if you keep rewarding the player at every corner, rewards become more and more meaningless.

[betam4x]

And this is why multiple inheritance in programming is ultimately a bad idea. The guy who designed C++ regretted making the IO class. He said later that having a Input class and a separate Output class would have been superior.

 

So, having as many player game options as possible would be the best for most people. It would be a superior game.

 

Some people don't like others having options, but that's a topic for another forum.

 

...and I wonder if you ever programmed beyond learning the basics. A class can do anything you want it to. Handle Input, Output, Farts, Dreams, etc. A class from a high level standpoint, is nothing more than an abstraction of sorts. A Player class, for example, CAN contain logic only specific to that player, but there are no artificial restrictions that stop you from adding, say, a treasure method unrelated to the class. Doing so is typically considered bad practice, but having read your, and only your comment makes me question whether you know anything about development at all. Typically if I find a class getting out of hand (for example, logic creeping in that is unrelated to that class), I merely split it up and write tests for the new class. Of course, that's why interfaces are a thing. They are a tool to help you plan out your code before you actually build it. Most comp sci 101 students don't get that though.

[DaVegaNL]

You guys still going on about this cr*p regarding BM-evading on a vehicle? Who cares.. seriously.

 

Hopefully TFP will not spend longer than half an hour on this issue..

[Eliphas the Inheritor]

God can we drop this bull♥♥♥♥ claim that people are upset or want to change the way other people play. Once again, I and pretty much everyone else does not give one iota of concern with how you play. How you want to play has literally nothing to do with the fact that I want obvious exploits like driving on BM night to be addressed. It is a major issue as well.

 

The problem is that a huge part of the game is building a viable base and having fun defending it. Imagine that, particularly for a new guy, you have spent a lot of time setting up a good base. You spent some time planning it out, have your traps set and your vantage point set up. You are ready. Then, BM rolls around and while murdering the horde something goes wrong. Your plans fail. They break in. Now you have one of those oh ♥♥♥♥! moments frantically running out your back door and desperately trying to survive. Except that you now realize that you can just jog over to your minibike and casually ride away into the sunset. Or just run away as that is viable too atm. No harm, no problems surviving and the ONLY consequence comes in the form of repairing the base that you never had to build in the first place. The sense of achievement is gone. Your base layout and traps are meaningless because you can survive with nothing as you are not overcoming a challenge anymore. I know how this feels because this is exactly what happened to me and it cheapened the entire experience.

 

What should happen is that after the horde breaks in and I make a run for it there is another challenge waiting that will likely kill me. Getting on my minibike should not give me an easy out, it should present a new challenge. One more harrowing as well as the cost is significantly lower but the challenge should be much more active. This gives an actual sense of achievement in surviving the BM.

 

As MM pointed out, the reason that surviving right now is not enough is not that the rewards are to small. It is that there is no challenge to the BM because should your structure fail you still get away without a scratch and the DP is lackluster anyway. The BM needs to be a real challenge.

 

 

This is also very similar to digging zeds as has been pointed out. I can also say that I am one of those guys that flatly refused to build an underground base in 16 because it was an exploit and ruined the game. In 17, because underground now has all the elements of the game in it, most of my bases were underground. I even got my farm set up at bedrock on my last one (that was an excessive amount of work but it looked cool as hell).

 

This constant whining about people wanting to change your game play is nothing but a straw man. You are not that important. No one cares how you play.

 

You are not the only one that bought the game and that supports TFP. I also have the freedom to voice my opinion.

 

I said that if he implements such a thing, then do it as a customizable option. Then I can just disable all the bloodmoon hordes or make them easier or just use fly mode when the time comes. You are not going to force me and others to deal with BM hordes if we don’t want to, regardless of the method. I didn’t say he shouldn’t implement it at all.

[DUST2DEATH]

[crazywildfire]

snip

 

Just going to be straight honest and say I didn't read all of that just the first half. Just sayin before I start. Just started to ramble on and on.

 

Not seen one person here say someone cant voice opinions. People are sayin that those that use the excuses of "don't tell me how to play" are just sayin we don't care how you play. Do you have a better excuse? You want it this way is telling me how I should play so what is the difference? We give reasons to why we want something changed but then just get told we telling someone else how to play. Everyone is free to voice opinions on why.......

 

Anyway without goin on and on about it I thought it was pretty clear that it wasn't about avoiding BM that sure that might be some part of it but not the main or only reason to get it changed. One gas is all over the place so they cutting back on it not throwing it out the window. They want more of a challenge to have more options of ways of playing. Maybe one time I'm at my base, another time on a bike and another one near the water. I will enjoy the challenge personally to have to decide what is best for that particular moment for me to do and still have a challenge to it. So it isn't all about avoiding BM because seriously don't think anyone cares if one does skip or not.

 

Those that keep claiming that it is about avoiding BM. You have options to turn BM off, log out and soon rent a room at the trader. Who knows what else. If you on a server well you picked a server that has it turned on.

[Eliphas the Inheritor]

Just going to be straight honest and say I didn't read all of that just the first half. Just sayin before I start. Just started to ramble on and on.

 

Not seen one person here say someone cant voice opinions. People are sayin that those that use the excuses of "don't tell me how to play" are just sayin we don't care how you play. Do you have a better excuse? You want it this way is telling me how I should play so what is the difference? We give reasons to why we want something changed but then just get told we telling someone else how to play. Everyone is free to voice opinions on why.......

 

Anyway without goin on and on about it I thought it was pretty clear that it wasn't about avoiding BM that sure that might be some part of it but not the main or only reason to get it changed. One gas is all over the place so they cutting back on it not throwing it out the window. They want more of a challenge to have more options of ways of playing. Maybe one time I'm at my base, another time on a bike and another one near the water. I will enjoy the challenge personally to have to decide what is best for that particular moment for me to do and still have a challenge to it. So it isn't all about avoiding BM because seriously don't think anyone cares if one does skip or not.

 

Those that keep claiming that it is about avoiding BM. You have options to turn BM off, log out and soon rent a room at the trader. Who knows what else. If you on a server well you picked a server that has it turned on.

 

Your comment is a bit pointless because you didn't read everything I said, the most important part being the other half that you didn't read. I say it again for the 1000th time, if they want to implement it, THEN DO IT AS AN OPTION, so I can choose to HAVE IT or NOT! How does that pisses off people? Really, I see so many butthurts (not talking about you). Next time, please, read the whole thing or don't bother replying, because you understood nothing of what I said. I DO CARE about how other people play, I didn't come here and say :"Oh, I don't like that Madmole, please don't do it!", did I?

 

Really, an option would be a win-win scenario for everyone...and if they really want to force me and others that don't like the idea, well, I can easily just use fly mode to avoid the horde, and yes, Roland was talking about him having to adapt to the ideas that were implemented, regardless if he liked them or not, if BM driving is not going to have a menu option, then my way of adapting would be to fly, you can't just force me to deal with it if I don't want to and you can't force me to turn off BM hordes completely either.

 

Maybe on the 49th day I don't feel like wanting to fight the horde, so you take away my way of avoiding it (driving the 4x4 car) and I'll just fly like a bird, I don't want to totally disable BM hordes like others suggested.

[Prisma501]

Yeps. Called godmode. Allready an option. Whats the prob?

 

Cheers