Weekend Arguments

[Eliphas the Inheritor]

Yeps. Called godmode. Allready an option. Whats the prob?

 

Cheers

 

What's the prob? I don't want to use godmode, I wanna be able to choose to drive or not during BM nights, not having to fly which would ruin the experience. Your comment was so ignorant. I think I'm going to just standby and let the people continue the subject because seems like an option is not what everyone wants, they want the feature to be forced upon all of us or not being implemented at all.

[TSBX]

Yes, as i said in my previous posts, i do agree with it being a challenge to bring fun. But i do not agree on making it impossible.

 

Currently, i am not the type who runs. I like deffending my base. But when it has its own challenge, i would love to try and ride with the BM.

 

Who the ♥♥♥♥ said to make it impossible? The option presented that I personally am all for is the "zombies rush your vehicle" minigame which makes it HARDER, not impossible to elude the horde in a vehicle.

[AtomicUs5000]

What's the prob? I don't want to use godmode, I wanna be able to choose to drive or not during BM nights, not having to fly which would ruin the experience. Your comment was so ignorant.

 

I just want to point out that flying ruining the experience is equivalent to being able to drive away without any effort or challenge on horde night.

This is why we need balance in that regard.

[Prisma501]

What's the prob? I don't want to use godmode, I wanna be able to choose to drive or not during BM nights, not having to fly which would ruin the experience. Your comment was so ignorant.

 

You will still be able to drive. But its no guaranteed free BM pass anymore. It will be a chalenge. Thats all. Now its actually the same as using godmode. No risk at all. No resource pain at all. Im for one am glad thats changing.

 

Cheers

[RipClaw]

Yeps. Called godmode. Allready an option. Whats the prob?

 

Cheers

 

Godmode is only available in single player or if you are admin on the server. However, as a single player you already have the option to completely disable the horde or temporarily disable the zombies if you only want to skip one bloodmoon.

 

On a server you have fewer options. You can log out and hope that the horde is over when you log back in but there is no guarantee for that. As far as I know the time on the server stops when the last player has logged out.

 

A suggestion of the developers was to rent a safe place for the horde at the trade. In this case it would be good if the server operator had the possibility to set the price in the server setting. On a PvP server you could set the prices high and on a Co-Op server you could set the prices low.

[TSBX]

Or the issue that development time for a18 keeps increasing.

 

 

How many times can you touch the stove and still be surprised that it's hot? You're generally a good poster, don't keep doing this to yourself. They have their own time table and how they manage it is their business. You liked A17 from what I recall despite how "long it took" so why won't you give TFP the benefit of the doubt?

[RipClaw]

I just want to point out that flying ruining the experience is equivalent to being able to drive away without any effort or challenge on horde night.

This is why we need balance in that regard.

 

Balance, effort and challenge are subjective concepts. It would be helpful if you could outline exactly how you want it to be if you had to create a concept that combines run or drive away from the horde with effort or challenge. What would it look like and how would the difficulty settings affect it?

 

For example, it was suggested that zombies run in front of the vehicle and he has to dodge. But based on the speed of the zombies and how close they are to the vehicle, the player must have a certain amount of driving skills. If too much driving skills are required then an average player might fail and it would be very frustrating for him. If you don't demand enough driving skills then it's rather boring. For example, players with higher difficulty settings may need more driving skills while players with lower difficulty settings may need less driving skills.

[Eliphas the Inheritor]

Godmode is only available in single player or if you are admin on the server. However, as a single player you already have the option to completely disable the horde or temporarily disable the zombies if you only want to skip one bloodmoon.

 

On a server you have fewer options. You can log out and hope that the horde is over when you log back in but there is no guarantee for that. As far as I know the time on the server stops when the last player has logged out.

 

A suggestion of the developers was to rent a safe place for the horde at the trade. In this case it would be good if the server operator had the possibility to set the price in the server setting. On a PvP server you could set the prices high and on a Co-Op server you could set the prices low.

 

Another issue is that using godmode feels like cheating, while driving out and escaping BM hordes doesn't feel like cheating. A lot of people don't get it. If you are smart enough to invest all your effort to build a minibike fast before even the first BM horde comes that is called being smart, not being a cheater/dumb player/coward, whatever. One way would be to drive but when you do kill a zombie with your vehicles, they are slowing down till they barely move so you won't be able to drive at all, maybe even have an option to clean the 4x4 car, or minibike, or whatever, there are tons of way to do it....even increase the requirements to build vehicles, really....or a random chance for the vehicle to jam based on parts qualities (and not jam just on BM nights, but all the time).

[AtomicUs5000]

Balance, effort and challenge are subjective concepts. It would be helpful if you could outline exactly how you want it to be if you had to create a concept that combines run or drive away from the horde with effort or challenge. What would it look like and how would the difficulty settings affect it?

 

For example, it was suggested that zombies run in front of the vehicle and he has to dodge. But based on the speed of the zombies and how close they are to the vehicle, the player must have a certain amount of driving skills. If too much driving skills are required then an average player might fail and it would be very frustrating for him. If you don't demand enough driving skills then it's rather boring. For example, players with higher difficulty settings may need more driving skills while players with lower difficulty settings may need less driving skills.

 

I know. I referenced that idea several times. I can't repeat everything for every post I make about this.

[RipClaw]

Who the ♥♥♥♥ said to make it impossible? The option presented that I personally am all for is the "zombies rush your vehicle" minigame which makes it HARDER, not impossible to elude the horde in a vehicle.

 

At the moment mainly two proposals are being discussed in the forum.

One is that a zombie runs in front of the vehicle and the other is that an EMP paralyzes all vehicles. Therefore it is not always clear who refers to which proposal.

[DaVegaNL]

How many times can you touch the stove and still be surprised that it's hot? You're generally a good poster, don't keep doing this to yourself. They have their own time table and how they manage it is their business. You liked A17 from what I recall despite how "long it took" so why won't you give TFP the benefit of the doubt?

 

Yeah you're right.. Lots of negative personal stuff going on, which makes me snarky. Sorry everyone.

[beerfly]

Yeah you're right.. Lots of negative personal stuff going on, which makes me snarky. Sorry everyone.

 

Here, a rock

 

You did or said nothing wrong.

[alchemi2]

I wonder how many arguing over all of this recognize the major faults in the defense vs flee points. Each side keeps referring to survival , the actual problem is the Blood Moon Hoard is a temporary threat regardless of which method you choose. Running, driving, swimming or hiding are all valid in game options that achieve the same outcome, as standing and eliminating the entire spawned hoard.

Until that is addressed in game it will remain an in game option to fight or not.

 

Some issues being attached to BM only are actually game balance/ challenge/ enjoyment ones.

 

Animals walking about on the bottom of lakes is weird and makes no sense, they should swim and so become a water threat.

 

Zombies should be able to punch up or down at blocks. putting a single frame at the top of a ladder should not stop them for long.

 

As any cyclist/ rider knows hitting any substantial object at speed is a great way to wreck your bike and get injured, mowing down a crowd in a car will eventually wreck said car.

 

These are not BM issues they are in game play issues, that should be addressed and balanced over the coming Alphas hopefully.

 

IMO every play style is valid within an sandbox game, you the players are setting your aims and how you achieve them, hence TFP provided the arena for you to play, settings for you to adjust and an reasonably simple XML system for you to tinker with, let alone the numerous mods others have created that expand or change game play and enjoyment.

 

Sometimes reading through the forums I wonder how much time some of you have actually spent just playing the vanilla experience in the latest Alpha 17.4 and trying the various ways of playing the game.

[Aldranon]

...and I wonder if you ever programmed beyond learning the basics. A class can do anything you want it to. Handle Input, Output, Farts, Wet Dreams, etc. A class from a high level standpoint, is nothing more than an abstraction of sorts. A Player class, for example, CAN contain logic only specific to that player, but there are no artificial restrictions that stop you from adding, say, a treasure method unrelated to the class. Doing so is typically considered bad practice, but having read your, and only your comment makes me question whether you know anything about development at all. Typically if I find a class getting out of hand (for example, logic creeping in that is unrelated to that class), I merely split it up and write tests for the new class. Of course, that's why interfaces are a thing. They are a tool to help you plan out your code before you actually build it. Most comp sci 101 students don't get that though.

 

I was just quoting the creator of the C++ programing language and his opinion. You have to instruct him not me.

[crazywildfire]

Another issue is that using godmode feels like cheating, while driving out and escaping BM hordes doesn't feel like cheating. A lot of people don't get it. If you are smart enough to invest all your effort to build a minibike fast before even the first BM horde comes that is called being smart, not being a cheater/dumb player/coward, whatever. One way would be to drive but when you do kill a zombie with your vehicles, they are slowing down till they barely move so you won't be able to drive at all, maybe even have an option to clean the 4x4 car, or minibike, or whatever, there are tons of way to do it....even increase the requirements to build vehicles, really....or a random chance for the vehicle to jam based on parts qualities (and not jam just on BM nights, but all the time).

 

I went back and read it and I stick to what I said thanks.

 

You keep repeating and yelling, seems that is it making you mad. Once again, it isn't about avoiding BM. It is about the challenge. It isn't about keeping vehicles from moving on BM I don't want that but give me a challenge if i do decide to jump on it. To me driving away with the zombies in the sunrise is like sayin the end of a movies in this case game over you win. I personally wouldn't mind the challenge if I'm in a vehicle.

 

You have and will have options to avoid BM if you wish. Once again rent a room at the trader is/will be a option. 2 turn off BM that is a option. 3 go into Godmode it is a option maybe not one that most will like but is a option. On multiplayer/servers pick a server that agrees to what you like or log out either way those are options. So see seems you have several options but to us that want a challenge no matter what and where we are (on water, in vehicles, in the air, underground and in a base) we don't get the options.

 

We don't care what option one picks or how one plays. This type of game is played differently by many. So it isn't about telling one how to play the game. It isn't about keeping one from driving because I don't want the electric storms and if they do happen make it random not every time so we all can still drive. We just want a challenge for when we do drive not to just out drive everything with ease.

 

We get the other side of things but seems clear some don't get our side of things and jump off saying we telling then how to play or forcing them to do this or that. Works both ways, one is forcing us to only play in our base because it is the only challenge. Just speaking in general it is always when a change is happening or being talked about you always have that bunch say NO don't tell me how to play comments and we have hardly seen people try and tell someone how to play. So it is just getting straight old of an excuse.

[SnowDog1942]

I forget that you like to argue just to argue, but I have your Team B jersey for when you're ready.

 

Nice... avoid my question and attempt a snappy one liner. Now we know you had zero arguement left

 

Was fun while it lasted.

 

Actually, u are right, I DO enjoy this.

[DaVegaNL]

Here, a rock

 

You did or said nothing wrong.

 

Ahwwww.. Can I keep it? I promise to walk it twice a day!

[SnowDog1942]

Your comment is a bit pointless because you didn't read everything I said, the most important part being the other half that you didn't read. I say it again for the 1000th time, if they want to implement it, THEN DO IT AS AN OPTION, so I can choose to HAVE IT or NOT! How does that pisses off people? Really, I see so many butthurts (not talking about you). Next time, please, read the whole thing or don't bother replying, because you understood nothing of what I said. I DO CARE about how other people play, I didn't come here and say :"Oh, I don't like that Madmole, please don't do it!", did I?

 

Really, an option would be a win-win scenario for everyone...and if they really want to force me and others that don't like the idea, well, I can easily just use fly mode to avoid the horde, and yes, Roland was talking about him having to adapt to the ideas that were implemented, regardless if he liked them or not, if BM driving is not going to have a menu option, then my way of adapting would be to fly, you can't just force me to deal with it if I don't want to and you can't force me to turn off BM hordes completely either.

 

Maybe on the 49th day I don't feel like wanting to fight the horde, so you take away my way of avoiding it (driving the 4x4 car) and I'll just fly like a bird, I don't want to totally disable BM hordes like others suggested.

 

On the 49th day, if u dont want to fight the horde you could use the settime command to skip it, or turn them off. If on a server u could log off for 20 minutes and get some exercise, or play another save u have going.

[Eliphas the Inheritor]

I went back and read it and I stick to what I said thanks.

 

You keep repeating and yelling, seems that is it making you mad. Once again, it isn't about avoiding BM. It is about the challenge. It isn't about keeping vehicles from moving on BM I don't want that but give me a challenge if i do decide to jump on it. To me driving away with the zombies in the sunrise is like sayin the end of a movies in this case game over you win. I personally wouldn't mind the challenge if I'm in a vehicle.

 

You have and will have options to avoid BM if you wish. Once again rent a room at the trader is/will be a option. 2 turn off BM that is a option. 3 go into Godmode it is a option maybe not one that most will like but is a option. On multiplayer/servers pick a server that agrees to what you like or log out either way those are options. So see seems you have several options but to us that want a challenge no matter what and where we are (on water, in vehicles, in the air, underground and in a base) we don't get the options.

 

We don't care what option one picks or how one plays. This type of game is played differently by many. So it isn't about telling one how to play the game. It isn't about keeping one from driving because I don't want the electric storms and if they do happen make it random not every time so we all can still drive. We just want a challenge for when we do drive not to just out drive everything with ease.

 

We get the other side of things but seems clear some don't get our side of things and jump off saying we telling then how to play or forcing them to do this or that. Works both ways, one is forcing us to only play in our base because it is the only challenge. Just speaking in general it is always when a change is happening or being talked about you always have that bunch say NO don't tell me how to play comments and we have hardly seen people try and tell someone how to play. So it is just getting straight old of an excuse.

 

I was not yelling, just because I use caps lock to emphasize some things that doesn't mean I am mad. I am repeating the same things because people just don't get it that an option is a win-win scenario. None of your options that you "offered" here in your post is a good option, and those options are certainly ruining the experience and feel like CHEATING, and you offered these options because you understood nothing of my post.

 

I get you want challenges, I am not against it, but an option to turn on/off the BM driving is not something that will affect your challenges in any way, again, I repeat it because I feel like I am talking to a 10 years old child that simply doesn't get it, and yes...I am talking about you and others (like SnowDog1942) that keep saying "If you're on a server, just log out, if you're in single player just fly, just skip the time, etc....", again again and again, that is CHEATING and ruining the experience but oh well, I've done my part.

 

So no thanks, I will stick with my opinion, an option to turn on/off vehicles driving during BM hordes is still a win-win scenario for all players. Let's see what Madmole has to say about it.

[meganoth]

And I also agree that more of an incentive for clearing the horde could be a good idea. I know MM didn't seem to agree, as just surviving is a reward I suppose. But like others have mentioned, maybe it's not necessarily a god tier loot drop, but maybe just lower the zombies around your base for maybe half of the next week. Or disable wandering hordes for a few days.

 

While I don't think BM needs rewards, reducing wandering hordes or even general zombies spawns in the area for a day is a good idea. (Half a week seems to much IMHO)

 

*) It makes sense as the zombies were drawn from the surrounding area.

*) The BM would have a visible influence on the world instead of being an isolated event.

*) It is an incentive to go out and do difficult quests on the day after BM.

[Kage848]

As in the many threads on this subject in the GD room, I think that's both the easiest and best way to stop players avoiding the BM Horde. An incentive to wipe it out entirely would give players a positive reason not to avoid it.

 

That said, since the BM Horde can be turned off entirely now, I also can't see any real reasons for anyone to object to any systems the Pimps might put in place to hinder BM Horde avoidance, so long as those mechanisms only activate when the BM Horde itself is activated.

 

If a game mechanic is so unattractive to players wanting to experience it, especially the game machanic the game is named after, they are skipping it I see that as a major issue with the game.

 

I personally love the horde nights. I cant believe anyone skips them. I wish we had hard data on the % of players that actually skip them.

[Shineblossom]

One quick idea,

It would be simply amazing to have either trains, carts or both. Just to move loot around, carry turrets on them for, idk, clearing border areas, or having a quick and safe way of getting to a trader. Would also be cool to have tunnels for these since, well, you can.

 

You can make concrete reinforced tunnel on bedrock level between your bases. Having one main base in middle of map and then those tunnels to side bases on important places. You can even easily make it so under each base you have room big enough for 4x4 to turn around and the tunnel can be wide enough for two cars next to each other.

 

Haven't seen zombie spawn in those tunnels i did so far. And would probably ignore them anyways unless they were right in the room under base. Only purpose of those tunnels, for me, is to get from point A to point B without neededing to dodge every tree and rock on the way.

 

In my game i have it only as a cross tho, with main base in middle. So if you want from side base A to side base B you have to ehtier drive twice the distance, trough the middle connection point, or to drive on ground. Doesn't matter much, i don't really run between side bases. Just from back to one side and back.

[RipClaw]

If a game mechanic is so unattractive to players wanting to experience it, especially the game machanic the game is named after, they are skipping it I see that as a major issue with the game.

 

I personally love the horde nights. I cant believe anyone skips them. I wish we had hard data on the % of players that actually skip them.

 

I also wish that we had more data here but apparently nobody can or will answer this question.

 

Personally I have never skipped a horde and that with more than 2500 hours game time.

However, I have to admit that the horde is not as much fun as in Alpha 16.

 

In Alpha 16 there were fields of corpses in my base after the horde. Every single corpse could be looted and harvested. 99% of what you got was garbage but still you found something to be happy about in every horde. I remember for example that I got a perfect Q600 small engine from a corpse after a horde. It took me about an hour of real time to loot all the corpses, clean up and repair the base for the next horde.

 

In Alpha 17 there are some yellow bag on the ground after the horde and if I am lucky a few corpses of dogs. It's almost as if the horde never existed. There's nothing to show you what you've achieved. The base is repaired in less than 10 minutes real time and prepared for the next horde.

 

For me, the quests have taken the place of the horde. You are given a task and then you do it. Finally you get a reward in the form of coins, XP and an item. I usually sell this item when I don't need it. But at least I get credit for what I've achieved.

[crazywildfire]

I was not yelling, just because I use caps lock to emphasize some things that doesn't mean I am mad. I am repeating the same things because people just don't get it that an option is a win-win scenario. None of your options that you "offered" here in your post is a good option, and those options are certainly ruining the experience and feel like CHEATING, and you offered these options because you understood nothing of my post.

 

I get you want challenges, I am not against it, but an option to turn on/off the BM driving is not something that will affect your challenges in any way, again, I repeat it because I feel like I am talking to a 10 years old child that simply doesn't get it, and yes...I am talking about you and others (like SnowDog1942) that keep saying "If you're on a server, just log out, if you're in single player just fly, just skip the time, etc....", again again and again, that is CHEATING and ruining the experience but oh well, I've done my part.

 

So no thanks, I will stick with my opinion, an option to turn on/off vehicles driving during BM hordes is still a win-win scenario for all players. Let's see what Madmole has to say about it.

 

You are talking about not driving on BM. I'm talking about being able to drive but still have challenges in doing so.

 

I agree those options feel like cheating but one option is to turn BM off. If you are driving away from horde night anyway what is the difference? So if on a server you would pick a server that turned this on or off but will not pick a server that has BM turned off? Is it cheating to rent a room at the trader vs driving away all safe?

 

You keep saying we don't understand but we do. We can agree to disagree on that and leave it at that as far as that goes because it seems to us the other way around.

 

As far as options in the menu go. It has been brought up before not every little thing will have options. So try and find away to come up with something besides saying have an option to turn on and off because that isn't a guarantee to happen.

[Trankitas]

because he's a lone weirdo.

 

Well that is...in fact not true.